Laurel Canyon

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby American Dream » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:05 pm

Sweejak wrote:
I'm going to wait till the end of the series, but a lot of this stuff doesn't completely gel for me, and as a military brat myself a lot of the dot connecting doesn't strike me as that unusual. The kids moved a lot, and often ended up in the same places at unusual times and combinations not to mention their fathers who were worked in a very top down, chain of command system that was isolated in structure and lifestyle from the general population. There is no way you are not going to get a combinations that will look as if they are beyond synchronicity. I imagine the same would hold for the Hollywood crowd. There are alternative, prosaic explanations for much of it.

Still, some of the history is more than odd, but it's not enough to get me to latch on to where I think he is going.

it is quite a read and it was McGowan's "There is Something About Henry" that probably took me off the rails. I do appreciate his work.


I'm inclined to agree that these articles sometime confuse "interesting coincidence" with "compelling proof". I do agree with his general hypothesis- that meddling intelligence agencies were significantly involved with the development of the 60's counterculture.

In a similar way, McGowan's book "Programmed to Kill" was barking up the right tree regarding possible links between serial killers and organized mind control, but also blurred "coincidence" (circumstantial evidence) and "conspiracy" (or proof thereof).

"There's Something About Henry" is awesome, for sure.

Thanks for posting all this, Sweejak!
Last edited by American Dream on Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Sweejak » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:31 pm

I'm inclined to agree that these articles sometime confuse "interesting coincidence" with "compelling proof". I do agree with his general hypothesis- that meddling intelligence agencies were significantly involved with the development of the 60's counter culture.


I don't have much doubt about that. The book Storming Heaven and Acid Dreams pretty much lays out the evidence.

The question for me still is what caused the 60's, especially considering that it was a worldwide phenom, and even though the "Generation Gap" supposedly sliced the era, in my experience, it effected behavior across generations.

A few years ago I checked in to Dr. Norman Livergood's site (I understand he is a former dept. head of the War College) and he was postulating that this was a recurring cycle. I can't find the essay anymore but here is his site.
http://www.hermes-press.com/index.html

Does any one have a take on Livergood?
User avatar
Sweejak
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Border Region 5
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby compared2what? » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:06 am

That stuff about Kim Fowley was INCREDIBLE.
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby annie aronburg » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:16 pm

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.
User avatar
annie aronburg
 
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:57 pm
Location: Smokanagan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Sweejak » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:55 pm

This is really a great, personal and social history. Quite a gem.

I've pulled out a few sections, from Bob Jameson's confessional blog, which is more an indictment of the star maker machinery behind the popular song.

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/03/part-29.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... meson.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... le-in.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... -jimi.html
User avatar
Sweejak
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Border Region 5
Blog: View Blog (0)

did you do a lot of acid Miller? back in the hippie days?

Postby annie aronburg » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:39 pm

Sweejak wrote:This is really a great, personal and social history. Quite a gem.

I've pulled out a few sections, from Bob Jameson's confessional blog, which is more an indictment of the star maker machinery behind the popular song.

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/03/part-29.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... meson.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... le-in.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post.html

http://bobbyjameson.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... -jimi.html


I'm not feeling this guy. Maybe it was all the acid he took, but he was in the wrong houses at the wrong times for these Zappa tales to be true.

Annie
"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.
User avatar
annie aronburg
 
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:57 pm
Location: Smokanagan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Sweejak » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:46 pm

His story is all personal recollection so I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was wrong. I have no way of ever knowing.

One hell of a story either way, and long read if you start from the beginning.
User avatar
Sweejak
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Border Region 5
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby SonOfKitty » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:20 am

In other news, it appears as though Frank Zappa also displayed some of the same less-than-admirable qualities shared by Manson and Paulekas. As DesBarres observed, “Vito was just like Frank, he never got high either. They were both ringmasters who always wanted to be in control.” And as Barry Miles noted in his Zappa biography, Frank’s daughter Moon “recalls men with straggling beards, body odour and bad posture who crouched naked near her playthings …” Also, the “Zappa children watched porn with their parents and were encouraged in their own sexuality as soon as they reached puberty. When they became teenagers, Gail insisted they shower with their overnight guests in order to conserve water.” Because, you know, apparently the Zappas were having a hard time paying their water bill.

I'm enjoying this series, but anybody who has read/seen Frank or Gails interviews and listened to his music knows that Zappa was a very conservative person. That he would expose his children to pedophilia is absurd. This whole paragraph is inuendo and Frank despised Barry Miles just as he despised the whole phoney scene. As far as the "control freak" thing, equating a musical artistic genuis who knows exactly what he wants and demands it of his musicians with con men like Manson or Paulekas is just stupid.Otherwise, I'm looking forward to the rest of this series, now I really know why Zappa hated these people!
SonOfKitty
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Sweejak » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:51 pm

Part 7 is up, with some parallels to that awful story about the Czech kid.
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr99.html

There is a pretty good doc out there about the making of Easy Rider, on yourtube in 7 parts or on the special features section on the DVD.
http://www.youtube.com/user/pdt113

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p63tesXF ... re=related

I'm still not on board with Dave. Very interesting series though.
User avatar
Sweejak
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Border Region 5
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby IanEye » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:01 pm

Sweejak wrote:I'm still not on board with Dave. Very interesting series though.


I am not fully "on board" either.

Anyone lurking have an opinion on this?!?

Image
click me to determine if you want the 2cd or 4cd version...
User avatar
IanEye
 
Posts: 4856
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Blog: View Blog (29)

Postby Sweejak » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:39 pm

I do admit that the coincidences, and the info I hadn't known before are making me uncomfortable and it's demanding that I piece together an explanation. I'm also wondering why I need to do this. Some of it I can explain to my satisfaction, but the aggregate, the aura, and milieu that McGowan is constructing is as if there is some dark-side vortex in those canyons. If McGowan is going to tell us this is all planned and humanly controlled I'm going to have a hard time with it and would actually be more open to some kind of occult magic. I can still think of subconscious self-generating actions that rise out of the zeitgeist of the era and look too coincidental but maybe really are. Like when inventors who have never heard of each other invent the same device at the same time. In that case I'd like to look more at how eras happen. Then again, none of these ideas is mutually exclusive.

Ok, stuff like this:
The next Young Turk up for review is the one who went on to become arguably the most acclaimed actor of his generation, Mr. Jack Nicholson. The following is a biographical sketch of Nicholson as presented by Wikipedia: “Bundy was born at the Elizabeth Lund Home for Unwed Mothers in Burlington, Vermont. The identity of his father remains a mystery … To avoid social stigma, Bundy’s grandparents Samuel and Eleanor Cowell claimed him as their son; in taking their last name, he became Theodore Robert Cowell. He grew up believing his mother Eleanor Louise Cowell to be his older sister. Bundy biographers Stephen Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth state that he learned Louise was actually his mother while he was in high school. True crime writer Ann Rule states that it was around 1969, shortly following a traumatic breakup with his college girlfriend.”

Uhhm … hang on a minute … I think I might have screwed up. Something doesn’t seem quite right, but I’m not exactly sure what …. Oh, shit! I see what I did wrong! I accidentally cut and pasted ‘serial killer’ Ted Bundy’s bio instead of Jack Nicholson’s. Sorry about that. This is how Jack’s bio is supposed to read: Nicholson was born at some indeterminate location to an underage, unwed showgirl. The identity of his father remains a mystery … To avoid social stigma, Nicholson’s grandparents John Joseph and Ethel Nicholson claimed him as their son; in taking their last name, he became John Joseph Nicholson, Jr. He grew up believing his mother June Francis Nicholson to be his older sister. Reporters state that he learned June was actually his mother in 1974, when he was 37 years old. By then, June had been dead for just over a decade, having only lived to the age of 44.

It is said that Nicholson was born at St. Vincent’s Hospital in New York City, but there is no record of such a birth at the hospital or in the city’s archives. As it turns out, Jack Nicholson has no birth certificate. Until 1954, by which time he was nearly an adult, he did not officially exist. Even today, the closest thing he has to a birth certificate is a ‘Certificate of a Delayed Report of Birth’ that was filed on May 24, 1954. The document lists John and Ethel Nicholson as the parents and identifies the location of the birth as the Nicholson’s home address in Neptune, New Jersey.

It appears then that there is no way to determine who Jack Nicholson really is.


Very odd, but what does it mean? Taken alone it is just strange, but with the rest of McGowan's stuff things get heavier and you start to think of Gannon/Gosch like explanations.

I don't have to decide, or even pick, but I'm feeling dark vortex today.

McGowan says:
And that, my friends, is a snapshot of the sick society we live in … but here, perhaps, I have digressed.

Maybe he hasn't digressed at all.
User avatar
Sweejak
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Border Region 5
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby American Dream » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:01 pm

Ianeye wrote:
I am not fully "on board" either.

Anyone lurking have an opinion on this?!?


I think McGowan is on to something- that intelligence agencies did have something to do with the 60's counterculture, but he is taking too much coincidence and implying that it proves more than it does...
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby NavnDansk » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:02 pm

Jack Nicholson gave me the creeps from the first moment I saw him in Easy Rider. I still remember the review in the Wash Post at the time it was released extolling his performance and though liked the reviewer utterly disagreed. I did like Peter Fonda.

Zappa gave me the creeps also and would have to turn him off when he was on talk shows. I was very taken with Jim Morrison though, from the first moment I saw the posters with one-half of his face in shadow and with the Alexander the Great hairstyle. :P

Bios of Morrison mentioned his father was an Admiral but if it is true that Morrison's father was in charge during the Gulf of Tonkin incident, it greatly adds to McGowen's theories.

Thank you Sweejak for telling us about this. I like Hermes site but this info is something to think about:

A few years ago I checked in to Dr. Norman Livergood's site (I understand he is a former dept. head of the War College) and he was postulating that this was a recurring cycle. I can't find the essay anymore but here is his site.
http://www.hermes-press.com/index.html

Does any one have a take on Livergood?


http://www.hermes-press.com/music_portal.htm


Plato's Understanding of Music

This is one of many areas of human life in which our failure to study and practice Plato's philosophy has resulted in cultural degeneration. Plato was so aware of the positive and negative effects of music on the human psyche that he stated:

"Let me make the songs of a nation and I care not who makes the laws."

Plato understood that the degeneration of Athens had been caused in part by citizens losing awareness of the effects of music. It was, he claimed, through ignorance that Athenians affirmed that music has no truth, that it is neutral and, whether good or bad, can only be judged by the pleasure of the hearer. Plato outlined the contribution music made to the moral decline of Athens and denounced the ignorance of "men of genius."

"They were supposed men of genius, but they had no perception of what was just and lawful in music . . . And by composing licentious works, and adding to them lewd words, they have aroused the multitude to lawlessness and impudence, and made them fancy that they could judge for themselves about melody and song . . . In music there first arose the universal conceit of omniscience and general lawlessness. Dissoluteness followed these pretences and men, fancying that they knew what they did not know, no longer felt awe, and the absence of awe begets shamelessness. For what is this shamelessness, which is so evil a thing, but the insolent refusal to regard the opinion of the better person by reason of an over-daring sort of license?"

Plato, Laws III


"At MTV, we don't shoot for the 14 year olds, we own them. The strongest appeal you can make is emotionally. If you can get their emotions going, make them forget their logic, you've got them."

Bob Pitman, founder and one-time president of MTV


"Atmospheres are going to come through music . . . You can hypnotize people with the music and when you get them at their weakest point, you can preach into the subconscious what you want to say."

Jimi Hendrix


[ich our civilization must get to grips with in some geni]
"I adamantly believe that rock in all of its forms is a critical problem whuinely effective way, and without delay, if it wishes long to survive."[/i]

David Tame, The Secret Power of Music "Music can be intoxicating. Such apparently slight causes destroyed Greece and Rome, and will destroy England and America."

Henry David ThoreauA Renewed Understanding of Music

Through rediscovery of the Perennial Tradition's teachings about music, we can regain our understanding of how music affects individuals as well as the whole of society--and how High Music can induce Heightened Awareness.

Plato saw music as a means of developing the human soul:

"Instruction in music is a more potent operation than many others, because rhythm and harmony find their way into the inner regions of the soul, with which they forcefully interconnect, imparting refinement. The soul of one appropriately educated becomes graceful."

Plato, The Commonwealth, III, 401.d "Music can only suggest, encourage with its delights, not force anyone to act contrary to their best convictions, yet, many suggestions can undermine felt and reasoned convictions over a prolonged period of time."

Basil Cole, Music and Spirituality Hildegard of Bingen's (1098-1179) statement, "Music is the echo of the glory and beauty of heaven. And in echoing that glory and beauty, it carries human praise back to heaven," resounds in the contemporary world through Julius Portnoy's 1963 Music in the Life of Man: "Music is the releaser into the material world of a fundamental, super-physical energy from beyond the world of everyday experience."

+++++++++

Loving Spirit, Dwell Within My Heart
Lord, how deep, how wonderful
this mystery of love for me.

It begins as a string of love
Deep within your heart,
This movement of your Spirit


Thanksgiving after Communion

O Jesus, I believe that in this holy sacrament of the Eucharist you have really and truly come into my inmost soul to share your divine life with me. I believe because you have said it and your word is true.

May your sacred body that I have received so transform me that no stain of sin may remain in me.

May what I have received in my mouth, O Lord, dwell ever in my heart and from a passing benefit become an eternal reward. Amen.

Preparation for Communion

O Lord, prepare my soul to receive you. You have said, "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me and I live in him: as I myself draw life from the Father, so whoever eats me will draw life from me."

I come to You now that I may draw life from You. Let me join You in this Mass in adoring and thanking our Heavenly Father, in making reparation for sin and begging for the graces I need to serve Him worthily and glorify Him daily more and more.

May Your kingdom come in my heart and all the world. Amen.


Going forth everywhere
To fill the whole of your creation.

Your love is the greatest grace
Beyond all that you have made,
So how is it that of any space
Where your love seeks to rest,
A love that nothing can confine,
It seeks to find a place
Deep within a heart like mine?

How terrible to be caught up, then,
In the routine of everyday things when
I don't have time to savor your love,
Or worse ignore it, or worse still reject it.
Loving Spirit, dwell within my heart.
So that I may reflect your peace and light. Amen.

-By Columban Father Patrick Sayles

To request the prayer book "Prayer From Around The World" that includes these poems, please write to:

The Columban Fathers
PO Box 10
St. Columbans, NE 68056

http://www.columban.org/content/view/44/49/


Prayer for Missionaries

O Sacred Heart of Jesus, Your missionaries have cheerfully left home and all dear to them for love of You and to bring Your love to Your poor. We beg You to strengthen that spirit of love in their hearts. Let it never be weakened by failure, frustration, difficulty or trial. Be with them in loneliness, hardship and danger. Send them the help they need to carry on their work for You and make it fruitful.

Amen


-From the booklet The Body and Blood of Christ. For copies of this booklet please write to: The Columban Fathers, PO Box 10, Saint Columbans, NE 68056.

acts of reparation

In another letter the pious Bishop Theophan wrote again about prayer to Father Agapit: "In prayer everything must be absorbed in a feeling towards God - either contrition, or thanksgiving, or glorification, or in asking for something needful for the soul or of the body, with faith and hope".

Finally prayer was essential teaching of Father Agapit who would say: "Take care for the salvation of your souls; for God's sake, do not lose heart, but fortify yourselves with prayer, with living faith in the fact that the Lord is concerned for your salvation, and that at your every humble appeal, in His love for mankind He is always read to help you."


Like all the early writers and ascetics of the Eastern Orthodox Church, Father Agapit himself prayed and instructed others to pray the Jesus Prayer:

O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

This prayer to Father Agapit was the most essential prayer for him, and for others would say: "The inward activity of the heart," (concerning the Jesus Prayer) "is the science of sciences and art of arts, and those experience in this activity always abide in fear and trembling by reason of that narrow and exceedingly obscure pate, which is found only with the help of experienced instructors..."

The Jesus Prayer must be done with free will of the individual, and done with the need to spiritually have constant prayer with our Lord God, and that is to say to have unceasing prayer, which in itself has benefit for the soul, and brings it inner peace.

+++++++++

http://www.catholicexpert.com/lent_prayers


Later came the Maurin Peter Farm on Staten Island, which later moved to Tivoli and then to Marlborough, both in the Hudson Valley. Day came to see the vocation of the Catholic Worker was not so much to found model agricultural communities as rural houses of hospitality.
Last edited by NavnDansk on Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
NavnDansk
 
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:57 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby IanEye » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:04 pm

User avatar
IanEye
 
Posts: 4856
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Blog: View Blog (29)

Postby Sweejak » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:14 pm

NavnDansk, are you thinking perhaps of the cemetery scene in Easy Rider?
It's in Part 5 starting at about 4:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4SJGW3o ... re=related

On edit, It's not at 4;35, it's kind of scattered all thru that segment. I'm thinking more of the actual movie.
Last edited by Sweejak on Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sweejak
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Border Region 5
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to High Weirdness

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests