Scientology plug at Counterpunch?

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Re: Clear

Postby Dreams End » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:33 am

cockburn seems particularly focused on defending Scientologists...<br><br>And simple research shows that, whether they become another mainstream religion or no, they are a coercive cult...even to the point of putting their own members in a kind of prison/re-education camp. It has nothing to do with their irrational beliefs, as all religions at heart are irrational.<br><br>But you saw how Hubbard's own son said they went around beating up "dissidents." <br><br>Keep reading Cockburn and you'll see this pop up from time to time.<br><br>Meanwhile, my thinking on Cockburn is shaped by the fact that he houses all the "dissident" CIA writers such as McGovern. And in our Ghost Troops thread, I wrote how McGovern is now spokesperson for "Not in Our Name" an RCP front...and RCP = FBI. <br><br>He writes well about barbecue though. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Clear

Postby Gouda » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:28 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...they are a coercive cult...even to the point of putting their own members in a kind of prison/re-education camp.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> A <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>spiritual</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> coercive cult though. <br><br>Talk about re-education camps, just saw this: <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Freuters.myway.com%2Farticle%2F20060828%2F2006-08-28T112721Z_01_L28839870_RTRIDST_0_INTERNATIONAL-SECURITY-SAUDI-RELEASE-DC.html">Saudi "corrects" ideas of 700 Qaeda sympathizers</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>I knew it, the Saudis royals are scientologists! Must not be a uniquely american "respectable" religion. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Clear

Postby xsic bastardx » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:35 am

<br><br> Now that was fucking funny gouda <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Clear

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:37 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Meanwhile, my thinking on Cockburn is shaped by the fact that he houses all the "dissident" CIA writers such as McGovern.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I've been having fits over TruthOut being a platform for both Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson while decrying CIA torture gulags on the same page.<br><br>These CIA men are NOT Philip Agee or John Stockwell types.<br>They are "me too" opportunistic infiltrators capitalizing on naive enemy-of-my-enemy thinking by (phrase of the week) 'Amy Goodman progressives.'<br><br>Mixed messages about terrorist organizations is not helpful to an already 'focus-challenged' peace and justice movement which can't tell friend from foe and is chasing a vast world of atrocities like a puppy in a herd of squirrels.<br><br>I have an image of the CIA as Bugs Bunny in drag and lipstick beguiling a hot-in-pursuit progressive Elmer Fudd.<br><br>"He went that-a-way, Doc." <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Clear

Postby Dreams End » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:09 pm

I still probably wouldn't let Agee or Stockwell lead my local peace group either, but they do offer a very different perspective...exposing the evils of the agency itself. Are they limited hangout specialists? I've never heard much of that criticism of either of them, though I haven't looked for it either.<br><br>But McGovern and company...like those Christison's. They have lots to say about the evils of Israel but not so much about the evils of their own agency. They are Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, you see. It's not that the CIA is bad, it's that their fine intelligence is MISUSED by the establishment. <br><br>There may, in fact, be a real battle between intelligence and the Bush people or it may all be a stage play. But I refuse to root for the CIA....sorry guys. I saw that movie already. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: ...that movie...is another Keyword Hijacking - CONDOR.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:29 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But I refuse to root for the CIA....sorry guys. I saw that movie already.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>"But Robert Redford is the good guy CIA and he hates the bad guy CIA just as much as Congressman Leo Ryan did." <br><br>(Ryan helped write legislation reigning in the CIA rogue elephant and died at Jonestown when he got wind of that CIA mind control project which was then liquidated through mass murder with a CIA-controlled media cover story about drinking Koolaid.)<br><br>(<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Three Days of the Condor - 1975</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->)<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0073802">us.imdb.com/title/tt0073802</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>By remarkable coincidence, the program to assassinate leftist leaders all over South America at the very same time was called...<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Operation Condor.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>That keyword leads to the US-Nazi-cocaine-terrorist history threatening to come out in the 1975-1976 Senate Committee Hearings on CIA abuses.<br><br>And that meant it was a good time for Americans to instead associate the word Condor with pretty boy Robert Redford instead.<br><br>National Security Archives-<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB73/index3.htm">www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSA...index3.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>And here's a 1999 Consortium article by RI's very own ROBERT REED (yaaay)-<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/111299a.html">www.consortiumnews.com/1999/111299a.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Some prominent politicians, such as former California Gov. Ronald Reagan, even expressed public sympathy for the Argentine military. In one radio commentary, Reagan chastised assistant secretary of state Pat Darien for her human-rights protests, saying she should "walk a mile in the moccasins" of the Argentine generals before criticizing them.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Argentine military also banded together with six other South American military dictatorships in Operation Condor, which hunted down leftists and other dissidents around the world.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>To finance these and other operations, the intelligence services relied on illicit sources of cash. According to U.S. Senate testimony by Argentine intelligence officer Leonardo Sanchez-Reisse, the Argentines funded many of their paramilitary operations with $30 million in Bolivian drug money laundered through Miami businesses. [For details, see Robert Parry’s Lost History.]<br><br>In 1980, using that slush fund, the Argentine military joined forces with Bolivian drug lords and right-wing military officers to overthrow an elected left-of-center government in Bolivia. Spearheading the putsch was Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie and elements of the same international band of neo-fascist terrorists who had flown to Argentina with Juan Peron.<br><br>Because of the prominent involvement of drug lords, the Bolivian putsch became known as the Cocaine Coup. After the coup, the drug lords gained government protection to ship their raw coca to Colombia where the fledgling Medellin cartel pioneered modern methods of production and distribution of cocaine to the United States.<br><br>The next stop for the Argentine intelligence teams and their drug-supported paramilitary operations was Honduras, where they began training a Nicaraguan counterrevolutionary army known as the contras.<br><br>With Ronald Reagan's election in November 1980, the Argentines gained a powerful ally in the United States. In 1981, Reagan ordered the CIA to join the Argentines in training the contras into a full-scale army. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 8/28/06 8:12 pm<br></i>
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Re: ...that movie...is another Keyword Hijacking - CONDOR.

Postby Gouda » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:40 am

Hugh, that is interesting stuff. But you could at least use Tom Cruise (scientologist) Keyword Hijacking film examples in this somewhat scientologically-oriented thread? <br><br>Is counterpunch right? Is Scientology really to be reckoned with as a legitimate, spiritual, respected world religion like evangelical christianity and mormonism? Is counterpunch implying that scientology may even be a welcome improvement on american religious hocus pocus as long as we are resigned to living with organized illusions? Why would scientology ever be recognized as a "spiritual movement" as opposed to a coercive, capitalistic cult? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 8/29/06 6:52 am<br></i>
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Re: ...that movie...is another Keyword Hijacking - CONDOR.

Postby havanagilla » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:12 am

Gouda, judging from popularity in Israel, its a serious business/movement/whatever. Lots of money, influence, established and popular, media etc.<br><br>I can't judge the influence, in terms of value judgment, don't know enough, it is certainly a "spiritual back up" to the economic takeover, and the anti islamic sentiment the US wishes to encourage.<br><br>As for personal advantage, i can see them taking the vacuum of social services, many joiners are former underclass (or "low class" in terms of social standing and money) who are getting a better outlet than drugs (the other american religion). <br><br>Its easy to be perfectionist when you live in a normal, stable economy. Here, people are thrown to the dogs, and so scientology is way up compared to drugs/crime, or military slavery, or fundamentalist judaism. The new scientologists all have those fake smiles and "positive thinking" phrases, very pushy and aggressive marketting (hooking); its something like the NGO's fashion we imported from the USA to replace politics, party politics, labor unions and social rights and services. Certainly, it is american. I am not a buyer, because I am not "spiritual" i guess, but people seem to need all those reincarnation/immortality things, and so, it works. Much easier to recruit for scientology than get people to attend a "labor rights" meeting in the neighborhood. its much more flashy and "winnerish". I kind of suspend disbelief and do not poke the believers with news about Hubbard eating embrios with crowly in an intel elite pedo-orgy...why bother.<br>--<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: ...that movie...is another Keyword Hijacking - CONDOR.

Postby Gouda » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:26 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>it is certainly a "spiritual back up" to the economic takeover<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> Yes, for sure (one of the many movements now afoot out there...) And exactly what counterpunch is supposedly fighting against (the economic takeover part, anyway.) They are everywhere, mirroring the movements of the evangelical missionaries, experts at spiritually justifying the takeover of your labor and economy. I once stepped into a scientology center in Guatemala (curious, adventure-loving sort that I am). I was quickly met by a crisp, friendly representative. You are right: very positive, very aggressive. Firm, extended handshake, direct eye-contact. I didn't get as much time as I'd liked to snoop around the lobby, because this guy materialized. Took some brochures and left. Anyway, kind of dispels the general idea that they mainly recruit the rich, powerful and/or famous to keep the funding high and the blackmail rolling. That certainly, but it also seems they go after all classes. Need soldiers/sailors at all levels. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 8/29/06 7:38 am<br></i>
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Re: ...that movie...is another Keyword Hijacking - CONDOR.

Postby Dreams End » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:00 am

They recruit everyone...BUT...they have special treatment for the rich and famous. They have a "celebrity center" in L.A. for the rich and famous. It's hard to notice because they cryptically named it "The Celebrity Center." It's a very large old stone building. Wait, I'll see if I can find a pic.<br><br>Screw that...it has it's own website:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Church of Scientology<br>Celebrity Centre International<br><br>Celebrity Centre located on 5930 Franklin in Hollywood<br><br>Scientology exists to provide help — help for all people — at every strata of life, of every disability or ability and across all ethnic and religious boundaries.<br><br>Borne out of this desire to help are the many social betterment activities Scientology supports. From our education programs, providing real answers to declining literacy levels, to our solutions for criminal reform and drug-rehabilitation — everything we do in Scientology is in the name of help.<br><br>Thus, while we continue our work to bring real solutions to those areas of society most in need, we also realize that we must not forget those individuals upon whom society depends the most.<br><br>L. Ron Hubbard once said, “The world is carried on the backs of a desperate few.” Unfortunately, it is these desperate few who are often the most neglected. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.celebritycentre.org/en_US/about/index.html">www.celebritycentre.org/en_US/about/index.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Don't forget to take the <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.celebritycentre.org/en_US/about/tour/index.html">tour.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>While we are at it, I should mention that they also own a huge former factory...also in Hollywood. It's painted blue. It is atrociously ugly and patrolled by people in military style Scientology outfits.<br><br>In general, the celeb center can pull in minor celebs, hoping to network with major celebs. Many never make it...but meanwhile, they get all your secrets. I have a friend who lives in Hollywood and his entire life is about networking. He's involved in show business in a variety of low level ways. I asked flat out if he'd joined and he said no, but the last project he pitched (tried to interes big execs to fund) involved a particular Scientology celeb. He never explained how he met that particular celeb (who by all accounts is a very nice guy and I think troubled).<br><br>Let me be clear...from my research and from stories of people who've been involved. If you are in and want to get out...they will fuck you up. <br><br>Just ask <br><br>Some pics. I think this is a full exterior of the celeb center:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/1/3/3/3/9363331-9363334-slarge.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>On second thought...it's too large to be the celeb centre. I'm not sure which building it is. <br><br>Here is a smaller building they own in Hollywood:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://static.flickr.com/29/62929399_495ecaa26a_m.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>I can't find a picture of the huge, factory-sized building in Hollywood. Strange. They may have sold it...maybe their headquarters is now officially in Clearwater (a town they took over).<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.cultnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/clearwater.bmp" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>Oh, I found a whole bunch of shots of "Big Blue". None of them give you a sense of scale. It's freaking HUGE..and right in Hollywood. So we can all rest easy that cash flow isn't a big problem.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/losangeles/BigBlue12.FountainAv..gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>capitalistic cult...perfect term for them. <br><br>Also, they are quite dangerous. <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E07E2DE1F3AF932A35751C1A961958260">Lisa McPherson.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.lisamcpherson.org/">Lisa McPherson memorial page.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Finally, here is a page from the above site of various other abuses. I haven't read them all. I'll leave you all with this one:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"[John] McMaster remembers once being asked by the Master at Arms to come and help her, He pulled up the wedge from the chain-locker, a dank and unhealthy part of the ship into which offenders were flung without food as a punishment. Out crawled a little girl who turned out to be a deaf-mute who had been unable to write her name and had incurred the Commodore's wrath." [see http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgormez/ch ... k-ups.html]<br><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.lisamcpherson.org/cos/hr_abuse.htm">link</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Read that page. Notice the stories of "detention facilities" etc. This stuff is easy to find on the internet as there are many former members out there now putting out information. Maybe they've mellowed a little since L. Ron. Jr. left...but not much. <br><br>Here's a very large <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.lermanet.com/">website</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> fo resources. From there you can link to hundreds of other sites.<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 8/29/06 9:01 am<br></i>
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Re: .Local use of Scientology

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:25 pm

(Sorry for the Condor keyword hijacking diversion but it came up in conversation here so I made the connection. Still some adamant disbelievers in this linguistic trick and it shows an eye-opening level of control at the 'entertainment' level of media.)<br><br>Scientology trawls for the vulnerable with their E-meters and a sign declaring "Free Stress Test" at street fairs in this area.<br><br>They declare that psychologists are The Enemy and then use psychology to manipulate people out of their money.<br><br>I spoke up at local peace and justice group's meeting about impeachment and got lots of positive reactions in an otherwise info- and focus-challenged group of do-gooders, mostly age 55 and up, the sweater-wearing Unitarian types.<br><br>Afterwards I was surrounded by 6 or 7 people who wanted to hear some more about the specifics of media control which I had declared was a hurdle that must be considered as permanent due to who runs it and why with no help coming from the so-called mainstream media thus necessitating grass-roots networking and education plans to bypass the myths, false hopes, and magic thinking which is hamstringing the well-intended.<br><br>But first one man got in front of them and consumed my time going on at great length about his involvement in a law suit against this White House.<br><br>Eventually the other people lost patience and wandered off.<br><br>Finally this guy handed me his card and he was a long-time E-meter dealer and Scientologist complete with his own sales website.<br><br>I think he was a discrediting/buffer agent preventing activism though I have no 'proof.'<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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