Let Go of The Need to Save The Planet by Thich Nhat Hahn

[crikkett]

and the chance he's spent most of his life only meeting pampered self absorbed neurotic westerners who just want to feel good ('our way of life, our style of living, is the cause of it') what is its value?

Beautifully put.

...the part of his life that came after those neurotic westerners pointed rifles in his face as he tried to help bombing victims of the vietnam war, let's not forget...

[Sounder]

I do not see much from the wise guys about the framework involved that may successfully facilitate this 'possibility for change'. And if so many know that it’s time for a 'shift in perspective', why is there so little interest in speculating on or formulating that new perspective?

Anyway, what is the ‘vibe’ in a room full of 'pampered self absorbed neurotic westerners'?

Cause it sure ain’t peaceful.

[crikkett]

if so many know that it’s time for a 'shift in perspective', why is there so little interest in speculating on or formulating that new perspective?

All those folk are at Burning Man this week, aren't they?

Joking aside, I'm up for speculating on and formulating a new perspective.

[The Consul]

Speaking of burning, as a younger man he had to decide not to participate in the self imolulation of his friends and fellow monks. Those acts may have indeed had as much to do with the ending of the Viet Nam war as any other form of protest. So he knows about suffering and sacrifice for a cause, but he also knows the pitfalls of organized resistence; much like what has happened with his brethren in Burma. How do you know if you are making things better or making things worse?
As far as the phrase "pampered westerners" goes, is that phrase meant to exclude anyone who speaks it? Nonetheless, would Mercedes love to have him ride in a CL550 coupe and call it a still journey through transcendent silence? Sure they would.
As Krishnamurti said the mind is a room full of snakes and we must take great care how we move through it, because otherwise all we are doing it picking which poison will wither away the power of our innocence.
A collective awakening is not a pepsi product, it is not something new. It is not something that can be created through political or psychological force. It is something that is, that already exists. It is what we are in no small part separate from our attachment to it.
There are many different ways, perhaps, that we can light ourselves on fire.

[Alaya]

and the chance he's spent most of his life only meeting pampered self absorbed neurotic westerners who just want to feel good ('our way of life, our style of living, is the cause of it') what is its value?

Beautifully put.

...the part of his life that came after those neurotic westerners pointed rifles in his face as he tried to help bombing victims of the vietnam war, let's not forget...

Snarky and arrogant of me, I confess. He and his students always seem just so precious and proper. Not my style and I should not be comparing him to anyone else. Granted, he has brought certain important issues to light.

Anyway, what is the ‘vibe’ in a room full of 'pampered self absorbed neurotic westerners'?

A swirl of Hungry Ghosts desperately grasping for improvement if not enlightenment

[vanlose kid]

...

While Thay believes that change is possible, he has also come to accept the possibility that this civilisation may collapse. He refers to the spiritual principle that by truly letting go of the 'need' to save the planet from climate change, it can paradoxically help do just that.

...

The operative word being need, as in "consumptive need".

*

[kristinerosemary]

"As Nanao Sakaki, the great Japanese wandering poet, once said to me, 'No need to survive.' And that sums it all up. Absolutely. Not just poetry. Not the race. The whole universe."

From Gary Snyder, in "The Real Work."

No need to survive.

[undead]

Try not. Do, or do not do. There is no try.

[Nordic]

Speaking of burning, as a younger man he had to decide not to participate in the self imolulation of his friends and fellow monks. Those acts may have indeed had as much to do with the ending of the Viet Nam war as any other form of protest. So he knows about suffering and sacrifice for a cause, but he also knows the pitfalls of organized resistence; much like what has happened with his brethren in Burma. How do you know if you are making things better or making things worse?
As far as the phrase "pampered westerners" goes, is that phrase meant to exclude anyone who speaks it? Nonetheless, would Mercedes love to have him ride in a CL550 coupe and call it a still journey through transcendent silence? Sure they would.
As Krishnamurti said the mind is a room full of snakes and we must take great care how we move through it, because otherwise all we are doing it picking which poison will wither away the power of our innocence.
A collective awakening is not a pepsi product, it is not something new. It is not something that can be created through political or psychological force. It is something that is, that already exists. It is what we are in no small part separate from our attachment to it.
There are many different ways, perhaps, that we can light ourselves on fire.

I'm glad you're here, Consul.

[82_28]

Like it even needs being posted. I just felt like listening to it again after Consul's comment. . .

[wordspeak2]

I don't know what I think of Thich Nhat Hahn exactly. He's definitely done some good things. But I have a couple friends who met him while they were working at Omega Institute, and said he was a total elitist asshole. Not particularly surprising to me. Buddhism's all right, but it's not as great as a mushroom trip, and I'm skeptical of anyone who tells me not to "take any drugs."

[Sounder]

if so many know that it’s time for a 'shift in perspective', why is there so little interest in speculating on or formulating that new perspective?

Crickett wrote…

All those folk are at Burning Man this week, aren't they?

Joking aside, I'm up for speculating on and formulating a new perspective.

Thanks cricket, I feel inhibited using this medium because of the ‘need’ to stick with the context of a thread and also to speak to the points of others without layering my own sthick on top all the time, (al la Hugh).

Alaya wrote in response to…
Anyway, what is the ‘vibe’ in a room full of 'pampered self absorbed neurotic westerners'?

….A swirl of Hungry Ghosts desperately grasping for improvement if not enlightenment

But ‘improvement’ for the hungry ghost can only be found by getting the client to feed the hunger. So, sadly, my former boss who has a thing for money, evading responsibility and being a top student at the local sanga, got in a bad car wreck where he had a year to meditate on the expressions of his self. His (ghosts) answer was to sue the county for not maintaining the dirt road properly. No recognition of the fact that this fellow is an aggressive driver, or anything else, but the sanga may do well.

When I had mentioned (to this same person, years ago) that there were discarnate beings that hang around fishing for energy, he agreed saying his guru indicated that there were up to 600 ghosts attached to the average person.

Our ghosts must really love us.

[vanlose kid]

Like it even needs being posted. I just felt like listening to it again after Consul's comment. . .

Gil Scott Heron on why the revolution will not be televised:




edit: "... the thing that's going to change people is something that no one will ever be able to capture on film." – GSH

*

[vanlose kid]

*

In a capitalist society "saving the planet" is a commodity.

Commodities function on the creation of needs, on feeding the ego.

Within that cognitive/economic framework, "saving the planet" is brought to market to sate yet one more need waiting to be fed.

It's the framework that needs changing. So, how does one do this?

That's the question being answered in the OP, as far as I can tell.

*

[FourthBase]

Based on that article alone, I am deeply impressed with this man. How can anyone not be, unless they know something not contained in the article, like maybe how he treated people at that Omega Institute or whatever. But you never know, he might have just been misinterpreted there. I've been misinterpreted before, I know how that kind of thing goes. As for the rest of you who were unimpressed, who had nothing to offer in response to that man's wisdom, in response to the part of the story where he risked his life to save others, and the part where he is reported to have influenced MLK: What in the fuck is wrong with you? You might think that being cynical and snarky at the slightest whiff of spirituality and optimism will keep you safer, but you are sadly mistaken. You are trapped. Get out of whatever cage you're stuck in. SNAP OUT OF IT. As for the practical import of his worldview: If you think the only way to true progress and ultimately a livable peace on earth is exposing the perpetrators' crimes one-by-one and somehow bringing them to justice before a court of law...good luck with that. The rest of us, the ones who aren't trapped...we'll be trying to change the world in more realistic ways. Ways that might not require some fantasy-world courtroom where big fish like Cheney or Bush will supposedly enter via police escort in handcuffs. Ways that might not get us in potentially lethal trouble with the big fish who, yes, really do exist and really are evil. And, so...what? Is it worth dying for, justice? Yes, of course. But it'd be absolutely fucking retarded to essentially beg them to kill you as quickly as possible, when there is so much opportunity in the world for significant lives-altering change from the ground UP, an opportunity which you will have forfeited by insisting on some hollow principle of short-term integrity in the face of such a long-term menace as we face. But hey, I'm just one person with my own opinions. And it's up to every individual to decide for themselves how best to redeem this crock of shit called human civilization. Again: Good luck!