Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby American Dream » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:27 pm

Here is one more from Daniel Mackler's website, which sounds like it might reflect elements of his own experience:


http://www.iraresoul.com/childabuse.html

What Constitutes Child Abuse?

The definition of child abuse is simple: whenever the spirit of the child is disrespected the child is abused. Abuse of the spirit of the child can take many forms, from the overt forms of child abuse that conventional society is able to accept – such as overt sexual abuse, physical violence and the extremes of neglect – to whole realms of abuse that fall below society’s radar and are considered normal and healthy forms of parenting. Children have massive needs, and where parents fail to meet these needs – whether society notices or cares or even bats an eye – the child ends up abused. Children are born into the world with a total right to have all their needs met. This is the responsibility of parents, and although parents have a whole palette of ways and techniques to deny their responsibility and pathologize defenders of the child, this does not change the basic facts. Children experience torture when their needs go unmet, and while I might sound like a fanatic writing this, it is only because I am taking the deep emotional side of the most disenfranchised minority in our society: the child. This is something that so few – and so few parents, those largely false advocates of society’s most innocent and squelched – do, or have any deep capacity to do.

When a mother has a child because she feels her life emotionally incomplete and wants someone to make it more whole, her child is BOUND to be abused. He will pick up her deepest unconscious needs from the time he is in her womb and start growing toward them to insure that he gets loved, and his abuse will only increase from that point onward.

When a mother takes psychiatric medication or drinks alcohol or smokes for whatever reason she becomes less emotionally available to her child, and this is abuse. Anything that takes a mother away from her deepest connection with herself, and her deepest healing process, is a cruelty to her child. This starts in the womb as well – but continues throughout his childhood.

When a mother and father fight in front of their child, and worse yet use their child as a pawn in the marriage, even in the mildest and subtlest of ways – which is so utterly common in our world that it goes essentially unnoticed – the child suffers abuse. Children need two parents who live in radical emotional harmony with each other. Any family dynamic that fails to meet this basic criteria is a setup for toxicity for the child.

When parents have not healed from any of their own traumas of their own childhood – however mild those traumas might be – they have no choice but to act out these traumas unconsciously on their child. This often takes place in subtle and symbolic form – such as the use of doubletalk, ultimatums, or conditional love – but it is abuse nonetheless. Parents cannot help but act out their unresolved childhood traumas on their children. Because children are so needy for parental love and have so few resources for defending themselves they make the most highly charged magnets for parental acting out.

When parents do not devote 100% of the best of their life’s energies toward guiding and nurturing their children, their children suffer abuse. And how many parents can realistically say that they devote even 20% of the best of their energies to their child? Some parents might argue that they do, but that does not mean their arguments hold any water. Most parents have so much to deny and defend against that they can rationalize almost anything. We live in a world where most people live almost entirely unconscious of who they are – and what their deepest motives are. It is no surprise that the most unconscious people often think themselves enlightened. This is comforting. Dissociation mimics enlightenment.

My writings might sound like I am setting the bar impossibly high for parents. Good! I am. For most parents I set the bar impossibly high because most parents have absolutely no business having children. On their deep emotional levels they can barely take care of themselves, and still ARE emotional children themselves. The horror taking place in our world is enough proof of this!

From the child’s perspective the bar I speak of is not set high at all, and the torture the child feels when the parents fail to meet his full needs – much less actively thwart them – tells where the child stands on this question.

If children could feel safe enough to speak about their deepest feelings, and have neither need nor motivation to protect the denial of their parents, they themselves would be the loudest advocates against all forms of child abuse. And often they are, much as our sick adult society misreads the child’s advocacy. Every crying and screaming child strapped into his stroller is railing against abuse, and yet so few notice – and even if they did, it would be totally taboo for anyone to step into the sacred world of his family and say anything. Protecting the denial of abusive parents is sacred in our sick world. And selling out children is the norm.

But there is a reason little children stand transfixed watching other children scream and cry: they know what the screaming and crying child is experiencing. They know torture. They still remember. They are watching a mirror of themselves go down the same emotional toilet down which their own parents have flushed them.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby tazmic » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:30 am

sounder wrote:
You are unenlightened to the extent that you are embedded in your experience. You think that your experience is you. You must dis-embed. Do that by taking each aspect of experience as object (looking at it and recognizing it) in a systematic way. Then, surrender entirely.

tazmic wrote:It sounds like a recipe for disassociation. And for some on the KFD forum it may well be. But if you put quotes around the second 'you' in the first line of the quote, it could be a recipe for integration. Subtle stuff.

(I mean you can spend time concerned about an idea of yourself embedded in a personal narrative reflecting immediate experiences you might prefer were different rather than experiencing stuff directly...without an agenda, so to speak. Such 'embedding' limits the range of perspective to the confines of the narrative, and in a way that precludes self awareness, whilst this formula makes such narrativization impossible. I’m suspicious however, that the embedding preemptively turns the formula into a dissociative practice…)

I sort of get it up to the part where you say; ‘whilst this formula makes such narrativization impossible’.
Feel free to expand on this and the last sentence also, if you might be so inclined.

Simply that you can't do personal narrative and do 'noting' (as it's known) at the same time. But there is a difference between gaining extra perspective on a situation through starting from a position of no relationship (notice + acceptance, then see where we are, rather than just acting upon an unnoticed perspective/relationship (the script you didn't know you had)) and effectively forcing an unnoticed disassociating meta narrative.

Most buddhist I've spoken to seem to think the way to get perspective on something is to take a step back. Obviously I understand the sentiment, and the logic, but I've always found stepping towards with eyes open affords the greater clarity. I could never understand why they associated transcendence with a moving away from. I hope that would be the 'wrong' way to do the 'noting', but it does seem rather common.

sounder wrote:
Name them and be free of them. These mind states are not "you;" we know that because if there is a "you" it is the one who is looking, not what is being looked at.

While turning these states into objects may help one become more conscious of their impacts, I still don’t see them as being free of the subject.

It seems a bit of a (dissociative) give away, doesn't it? And a rather shaky methodological foundation (identification with the 'observer', contrary to the teaching of 'no separate self'). I look at it as a negative path of delusion, as the end point is supposed to be the discovery that there isn't anything upon which to pin the 'self' (eventually the 'looking' gets observed too...), but if it takes 20 years for someone to figure this out they are going to talk a lot of (dissociative, narcissistic) crap in the interim, as they often do.

> I still don’t see them as being free of the subject

Of course they aren't, couldn't possibly be. Every sense is a sense of touch after all.

But they are working from within a false paradigm and the methodology is to stretch that to its limits, until it breaks. However this doesn't appear to have entirely predictable results, and there is no defense against premature breakage and someone getting stuck in a massive delusional state, talking like a solipsist who's knowledge appears recentered within perception itself (which can know no difference between the unknown and 'nothingness') and who are unable to talk about their experience except in terms of the paradigms they claim to have left behind.

>I have never much cared for the enlightenment model as it seems the element of narcissism, rather than the seeking of truth, is often the dominant driver.

Yeah, I think you have to be pretty self absorbed to get enlightened ;)

And it is quite clear that standard enlightenment does nothing to 'remove the ego' or effect any ethical transformation. I mean the evidence is against the claim.

simulist wrote:If someone were actually "enlightened" s/he might well lack all self-consciousness of being so, since s/he's found the "self" itself to be illusory.

This would be the case if it were the 'self' that were getting enlightened. But it will never be an illusion that sees through itself.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby Simulist » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:36 pm

tazmic wrote:
simulist wrote:If someone were actually "enlightened" s/he might well lack all self-consciousness of being so, since s/he's found the "self" itself to be illusory.

This would be the case if it were the 'self' that were getting enlightened. But it will never be an illusion that sees through itself.

We may actually be more in agreement, than not. As I see it, there is no real "self" to become enlightened. What there is, remains Unnameable.

(And those who do name this, are describing something else.)
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby American Dream » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:16 pm

Here is another piece that may help shed more light on the author's perspectives:


http://www.iraresoul.com/stages.html


THE FOUR STAGES ON THE PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT

As we walk forward on the path toward full enlightenment, different parts of ourselves live at different stages of healing. Some parts can be amazingly healed and insightful, while others can remain buried and out of touch. Our different parts traverse the various stages at their own speeds, seemingly independently – but ultimately connected to our core of perfection by our universal thread of truth.

The most primitive stage on life’s healing journey is the contest. This is the stage of grandiosity, acceptance by the norm, dissociated happiness, and approval by the parents. The parts of us that are winning the contest stop our journey before it has even begun. Here we deny our deepest traumas so intensely that we fool even ourselves into believing they never happened – and that we are already healed. It is for this reason that dissociation mimics enlightenment. Here we idealize the parents, which allows us full unconscious liberty to replicate the worst of our past in our present. Here we do not look beneath our surface, and if fate goes our way, we will never have to. We remain happily distant from the misery lurking in our guts.

Yet where parts of us lose the contest we evolve into the second stage: suffering. This is the stage of depression, failure, misery, and inertia. Here we wallow in seemingly purposeless pain. The silver lining around our cloud of parental idealization has been stripped away, but the cloud remains intact. We still wish to be rescued by our parents and their replicated stand-ins, but we lack the requisite pain tolerance to be able to acknowledge the impossibility of this. Here we live in tortured ambivalence, and we spend out hours and days trying to get others to love us in the way our parents never could. Part of us wishes to devolve back into the seeming pleasure of grandiosity, but the healthier part recalls how cruelly that route already failed us.

Those parts of us with the capacity to face our terrors enter the third stage: grieving. This is the stage of purposeful struggling. Here we unearth the truth of our past, which allows the eruption of the stinking cesspool of our buried traumas. Here we witness the horror lurking behind idealization of the parents and we work to disassemble their lies. Our honest confidence leads us into the face of the hurricane, because our soul and its allies tell us that blue skies lie on the other side. Here we are humble, here we confront the truth of the worst of our parents, either in interaction with them or through whatever means will best help us integrate the truth, and through this our journey rages forward.

With each demon we conquer we take a further step into the fourth stage: enlightenment. This is the stage of emotional integration, psychic balance, and inner peace. Here lie the deepest goals of mankind. All want to know truth, and the enlightened person achieves it – in all parts of himself that arrive in the final stage. Here we grow able to distinguish light from shadow and water from mirage. Here we nurture the evolution of our primitive sides instead of expressing them destructively. Here we devote the best of ourselves to healing. Here we no longer traumatize others in the very patterns in which we were traumatized, but instead replicate the best of ourselves – and generate beauty in the world around us. Here, having healed our wounds, we share freely of our gifts, because now our gifts are accessible.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby KudZu LoTek » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:38 pm

Simulist wrote:
tazmic wrote:
simulist wrote:If someone were actually "enlightened" s/he might well lack all self-consciousness of being so, since s/he's found the "self" itself to be illusory.

This would be the case if it were the 'self' that were getting enlightened. But it will never be an illusion that sees through itself.

We may actually be more in agreement, than not. As I see it, there is no real "self" to become enlightened. What there is, remains Unnameable.

(And those who do name this, are describing something else.)


If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!



and then steal his wallet for hookers and blow...


8)
"We were meant to get off at Pandemonium. The train was not supposed to stop here. This town is not supposed to be here." - Ian McDonald, Desolation Road
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby Sounder » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:50 pm

Thanks tasmic

This iraresoul twaddle is getting old fast.

One thing that strikes me about Daniel is that he is still very much embedded in a negative dynamic connected to his upbringing.

Twyla LaSarc wrote…
Maybe there are different scales and levels within dissociation. Others here have experienced far more trauma and dissociation than my former employer who was so smug in how she's 'gotten over' her family and 'found herself' and acted as 'enlightened' as anyone as she unconsciously acted out her family psychosis on a grand scale.

Your former employer and mine also sound as if they deny and bury their dissociation so as to not feel it so much. One of my boss’s sub-conscious drivers results in him not being able to take the blame or responsibility for things he may do wrong. The follow on result of him suppressing this issue into unconsciousness was a bad car accident, (my opinion only). He had a year of enforced ‘meditation’ on this or any other issue of his choosing, yet he has chosen to sue the county for poor road maintenance when in point of fact he is an aggressive driver. It seems that he has exchanged physical pain for his unwillingness to deal with psychical pain. Thing is my ex-boss is a main dharma teacher with a sizeable Buddhist group. He is an essentially good person who I was happy to have had an over twenty-five year connection to. But his relationship to his experience remains reactive and I do not see where the years of meditation has done him any good.

Jump

If one takes even a casual look back at history, it’s not hard to see that folk that successfully put form to material that originates from the ineffable or comprehensive are not ‘enlightened’. Rather they are messed up people responding to ignorance and a messed up situation with their best effort to make better sense of that situation. The folk that are remembered are the ones that brought to the world of form (seeming) understanding that mutually benefits larger society. My basic beef with enlightenment promoters is; if ‘enlightenment’ is so relevant to living a better life or whatever, then why do they not produce material on a par with Galileo, Blake, or any number of flawed humans that are remembered by history. Would these folk suggest that its better to transcend the limitations of this form based world? Well I got news for these Einstein’s; six billion people or so are dependent on the working of these forms, so that perhaps greater benefit is to be found in improving our forms of understanding instead of trying to ‘transcend’ the limitations of form.
Last edited by Sounder on Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby Simulist » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:51 pm

KudZu LoTek wrote:
Simulist wrote:
tazmic wrote:
simulist wrote:If someone were actually "enlightened" s/he might well lack all self-consciousness of being so, since s/he's found the "self" itself to be illusory.

This would be the case if it were the 'self' that were getting enlightened. But it will never be an illusion that sees through itself.

We may actually be more in agreement, than not. As I see it, there is no real "self" to become enlightened. What there is, remains Unnameable.

(And those who do name this, are describing something else.)


If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!

So you've heard about my driving record...

;)
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby guruilla » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:52 am

Image
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby KudZu LoTek » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:45 am

Simulist wrote:
KudZu LoTek wrote:
Simulist wrote:
tazmic wrote:
simulist wrote:If someone were actually "enlightened" s/he might well lack all self-consciousness of being so, since s/he's found the "self" itself to be illusory.

This would be the case if it were the 'self' that were getting enlightened. But it will never be an illusion that sees through itself.

We may actually be more in agreement, than not. As I see it, there is no real "self" to become enlightened. What there is, remains Unnameable.

(And those who do name this, are describing something else.)


If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!

So you've heard about my driving record...

;)

"crrzzrrt Unit 108? Unit 108, this is Dispatch. We have reports of a drive-by satori in your area, possibly resulting in blunt force enlightenment with multiple compound compassions. Suspect was driving a 2004 clear light Hinayana, wearing a loincloth and a silly grin. Do you copy, Unit 108? Over.crrzzrrt"
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby Allegro » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:05 pm

.
        :rofl:
KudZu LoTek wrote:"crrzzrrt Unit 108? Unit 108, this is Dispatch. We have reports of a drive-by satori in your area, possibly resulting in blunt force enlightenment with multiple compound compassions. Suspect was driving a 2004 clear light Hinayana, wearing a loincloth and a silly grin. Do you copy, Unit 108? Over.crrzzrrt"
Art will be the last bastion when all else fades away.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby Simulist » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:50 pm

KudZu LoTek wrote:
Simulist wrote:
KudZu LoTek wrote:
Simulist wrote:
tazmic wrote:
simulist wrote:If someone were actually "enlightened" s/he might well lack all self-consciousness of being so, since s/he's found the "self" itself to be illusory.

This would be the case if it were the 'self' that were getting enlightened. But it will never be an illusion that sees through itself.

We may actually be more in agreement, than not. As I see it, there is no real "self" to become enlightened. What there is, remains Unnameable.

(And those who do name this, are describing something else.)


If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!

So you've heard about my driving record...

;)

"crrzzrrt Unit 108? Unit 108, this is Dispatch. We have reports of a drive-by satori in your area, possibly resulting in blunt force enlightenment with multiple compound compassions. Suspect was driving a 2004 clear light Hinayana, wearing a loincloth and a silly grin. Do you copy, Unit 108? Over.crrzzrrt"

:D
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby American Dream » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:52 pm

Here is another piece from Daniel Mackler:

http://www.iraresoul.com/selftherapy.html


ELEVEN WAYS TO BE YOUR OWN THERAPIST

KEEP A JOURNAL: Journaling – that is, writing down the truth of your feelings, your point of view, your fears, your angers, your hopes, your expectations, your desires, your fantasies, your hatreds, your regrets, your thoughts, your memories, your prejudices, your secret loves, your painful experiences, your humiliations, your past traumas – requires massive intimacy with yourself. This self-intimacy is the essence of good therapy, and yet is also what makes good therapy so difficult. Many people find it difficult to journal – or journal in a deep and prolonged way – because of the strange feelings of being so emotionally intimate with oneself. But if you can tolerate the potential discomfort, if you can sit with the truth of who you are and look at your truth expressed on the page in front of you, then you can nurture a wonderful relationship with your greatest ally: your own true self!

ANALYZE YOUR DREAMS: As Freud wrote (and I will paraphrase), “dreams are the royal road to the unconscious.” If you want to know what’s going on down there in the basement of your psyche, you need look no further than your dreams. The only problem with understanding your dreams is that they express your deepest truth entirely in code – through metaphor. Everything in a dream has meaning, and the hard work of decoding the symbols of your dreams – that is, getting to know the symbols of your own unconscious – will bring you right in touch with the depths of who you are, and what your unconscious conflicts really are. This is tough work, and often humbling and ugly, but if you can hang with it, the rewards will be well worth the effort!

PRAY: Prayer, a hateful word to many because it is so misused (by ultra-religious people) and so disrespected (by those traumatized by the ultra-religious), is a wonderful form of self-reflection. It is done best in silence and privacy, so that only you and your own heart can hear your deepest desires and needs. Prayer is a chance to go as deep as you can consciously go, and a chance to let your soul air its most beautiful truth. The most original and honest prayers open the deepest doors, and let us know who we really are and what it is that is most important to us in our lives. They say that prayer is talking to "God," and when we remember that the Kingdom of God is within, and that "God" is really just the best of our truest inner self connected with the truth of the whole universe, we remember that when we pray we are talking with our best friend in the universe.

ENGAGE IN INNER DIALOGUE: This form of self-reflection allows us to ask ourselves a question in our own mind, and let ourselves free associate to the answer. Our mind has the capacity to always give us just the answer we need at any given time – and to answer with the most beautiful truth – if only we ask and listen for the answer. Inner Dialoguing is almost a magical technique, because it is so simple and obvious: ask yourself a question and just listen for the answer! Why it can be so hard for so many people, however, is that they lives their lives so dishonestly that they are terrified to GET the answer. It might really rock their boat. But that can be no excuse for the truth-seeker. If our boat is faulty it needs to be rocked, and sometimes a good rocking shows right where the weaknesses are – which allows us to repair them. I actually use Inner Dialoguing regularly as a therapist – in session with patients – when I don’t know where or how to proceed. The part of me that answers my thorniest questions is a better supervisor or therapist than any I have ever had.

EXERCISE: This might sound rather blunt and concrete after having written about such lofty things as dream analysis and prayer, but the reality is, we all have a body that is full of memories and history and blood and energy. It is vital to get our energy flowing throughout the body – and to keep it flowing. Exercise works amazing wonders on the mind and emotions. I have heard it said that some studies have shown that just a little bit of regular, gentle, healthy exercise is as good as or better than an antidepressant – and certainly doesn’t poison you with side effects and spiritual squelching! Of course, some people go over the top with exercising, and use it self-destructively, but none of these self-therapeutic techniques are of any healing value if used radically out of balance with a healthy lifestyle.

SOCIALIZE: We humans are social creatures, and as much as there is a time for aloneness and self-reflection, there is a time also for interacting with our fellows. We all need friends! An external ally in the world is a true gift, and oftentimes there is no better medicine than being witnessed by someone who loves us, cares about us, holds our best interest in their hearts, and is willing to take our side on life’s difficult journey. Plus, life entirely alone is boring!

GET A GOOD NIGHT’S SLEEP: This might sound silly, but it is radically important. The brain simply needs its sleep to do its job properly. Also, the soul needs its rest as well, and when we deprive ourselves of proper, regular downtime in a safe, comfortable and non-medicated environment, we fail to meet our responsibility for self-love. When we engage in self-therapy we nurture the little child who lives inside of us, and that little child, like every little child in the world, needs to be tucked in and put to bed at a proper hour – night after night. Every good parent knows this.

LIVE A HEALTHY LIFESTYLE: There is a wonderful therapeutic value in eating well, seeing the doctor regularly, taking care of our teeth and hygiene, and not putting any substances into our bodies which negate the spiritual journey of life. I believe that alcohol and drugs – both illicit and many that are perfectly legal – have no place on the healing process, and only foster anti-healing, that is, dissociation and regression. No one who loves a child would dare feed him cigarettes or alcohol, so when we consider that we are trying to heal and free the traumatized child within us, why would we bathe him in those very chemicals?

TRY CELIBACY: Periods of celibacy – and being single, without even emotionally romantic attachment or masturbation – can be wonderful balms to the soul. They bring back into focus our relationship with ourselves, and help us detach from relationships and sexual activities – both of which so easily breed projection. Sexuality is a beautiful, powerful, and wonderful thing, but it is so easy to misuse, because unresolved childhood traumas magnetically attach to, distort, and ultimately pollute all things sexual. As the saying goes, “sex is simple, you’re not.” We do ourselves a wonderful service when we let our expressed sexuality lie fallow for a period – sometimes a long period – so that we can discover our deeper purity.

READ GOOD LITERATURE: There are answers to life’s deepest questions everywhere – and sometimes, shockingly enough, these answers are even in books, and sometimes even in psychology books! (Pardon my humor. But then again, I really mean it. Freud wasn’t kidding when he titled one of his books “Humor And Its Relation To The Unconscious” – even if the book itself is dull as nails.) But all of literature – even areas we might normally shun as beneath us – has the potential to teach us something, to mirror some part of ourselves back to us, and if we search for the right book, we might just find it. And don’t poo-poo children’s and young adult books – I have often found that they hold more wisdom than the majority of adult literature! Ramona Geraldine Quimby (brought to life by author Beverly Cleary), The Giving Tree, and The Velveteen Rabbit have much to teach the inner child in all of us.

HAVE FUN: This is not to be underestimated. We all need to relax, let down our hair, enjoy (or play!) good music, take a nice walk, go for a swim, and just do something seemingly non-productive for a while – only to discover later that our fun was far more psychically and emotionally productive and therapeutic than we could have imagined. Having fun balances out life’s intensity, and stopping and smelling the roses opens us up to a whole new portal of life’s beauty. Life, after all, is here to be enjoyed.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby sw » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:35 pm

I had a four year old part that I think must have been close to being enlightened. Pure. Spiritual....free of religious dogma.

Wise. He was a theta part.

He was like putting God / Soul in a compartment inside and slapping a name on him. Plus, he viewed the lives of the others parts and had mind blowing perspective.

You can say he viewed God in a pure way and you can say he felt God's divineness in the wind, nature and even saw Godness in evil. Kind of like he knew absence of Godness. Can't explain it. He knew he was a bit of God and knew he was a God wave on the ocean of God. He was God and he knew it. He was pure love and he merged with the love until all that was left was God.

I wonder sometimes if some of the programs were aimed at straining everything out to "mine" the purity of God and make a part out of it just for spiritual superpowers (which he had, except he didn't see them as superpowers.) Space gave form to the formless.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby Project Willow » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:46 pm

sw wrote:...

I wonder sometimes if some of the programs were aimed at straining everything out to "mine" the purity of God and make a part out of it just for spiritual superpowers (which he had, except he didn't see them as superpowers.)

sw


Certain of my caregivers assert that the perps' failure to "mine out" whatever part of our being holds a connection to the spiritual is what allows us to retain a core inviolate sense of self and eventually to escape. On the other hand, some abilities that might be considered metaphysical were isolated to parts and developed.
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Re: Dissociation Mimics Enlightenment

Postby IanEye » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:24 pm

guruilla wrote:Image


guruilla, you seem new around here. in the spirit of the season, i offer you this jubilee roll.

Image
eat me

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