Possibilism and Impossibilism

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Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Jeff » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:12 am

I've been thinking about the compromises demanded by a control system that will allow itself to be reformed when stressed (and reverse the reforms when not), but not replaced.

Stephen Coleman wrote:Like other terms of political abuse which have been absorbed into our political vocabulary, the term ‘impossibilism’ tells us as much or more about the labellers as it does about the idea being described. After the French legislative election of October 1881, in which the Fédération du Parti des Travailleurs Socialistes de France won only 60,000 of the 7 million votes cast, a group based around Paul Brousse and Benoît Malon began to advocate a more pragmatic, reformist policy for the Fédération. "We prefer to abandon the 'all-at-once' tactic practised until now" proclaimed those who referred to themselves as Possibilists. "We desire to divide our ideal ends into several gradual stages to make many of our demands immediate ones and hence possible of realisation." The Possibilists regarded socialism as a progressive social process rather than an "all-at-once" end. Those who regarded capitalism and socialism as mutually exclusive systems and refused to budge from the revolutionary position of what has become known as ‘the maximum programme’ were labelled as impossibilists.

...

William Morris...declared that "The palliatives over which many worthy people are busying themselves now are useless." Morris’s conception of socialism, which he advocated both in the League and in the years after he left it, was characterised by an awareness – uncommon amongst those claiming to be socialists, both then and now – of the nature of the social transformation which socialism would entail.

...

That Morris was dismissed as a utopian dreamer by many self-styled socialists in his own day and since, tells us more about their conservatism than his vision. As Karl Mannheim commented, with a relevance to the concept of impossibilism of which he was not aware: "The representatives of a given order will label as utopian all conceptions of existence which from their point of view can in principle never be realized.


http://bataillesocialiste.wordpress.com/2009/09/

The legacy of the possibilists is real enough. Capitalist states that nevertheless provide public health care is evidence of that. But because the gains exist within the strictures of a hostile system, they're forever vulnerable. Is that as good as it gets? Was that as good as it got?

I'm thinking too of Canada's NDP. It's always been a possibilist party, even when it was known as the CCF, and its founding document stated "We aim to replace the present capitalist system, with its inherent injustice and inhumanity, by a social order from which the domination and exploitation of one class by another will be eliminated." It's been a long time since New Democrat leaders talked about replacing the capitalist system. That's another legacy of possibilism: the accumulation of compromises that progressively bankrupt the imagination for life without the system.

The current NDP constitution has a preamble that begins, "The New Democratic Party believes that the social, economic and political progress of Canada can be assured only by the application of socialist principles to government and the administration of public affairs." So now, after 70 years, it's about socialist principles applied within a capitalist system. But even that's too impossible now for the party leaders, who want their own Clause IV moment by proposing it be changed to: "The New Democratic Party believes that social justice, equality, and environmental sustainability are vital to achieving a strong, united and prosperous Canada for all. To that end, the New Democratic Party is dedicated to the application of social democratic principles to government." If it passes, socialism will be gone, even as friendly ghost. (This will come to a vote at the party's weekend convention.)

The art of the possible in Western politics always begins with the presumption of capitalism. Especially now, when it's never been more fragile or vulnerable to critique.

So now may be the time for some impossibilism.
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Project Willow » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:16 am

Reform or revolution. Idealism vs. pragmatism. It's definitely time for a guillotine revival (symbolic), but has anyone really overcome the human nature argument put to Marx? Has the NDP actually devised a system with enough checks to prevent "the domination and exploitation of one class by another" ?

I'm not arguing possibilism, I'm just asking.
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby blanc » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:06 am

Also, there's a seeping defeatism. A weary acceptance that money has somehow magically disappeared and welfare can no longer be afforded, as if the welfare state arrived because of a cornucopia in public coffers.
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby vanlose kid » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:39 am

blanc wrote:Also, there's a seeping defeatism. A weary acceptance that money has somehow magically disappeared and welfare can no longer be afforded, as if the welfare state arrived because of a cornucopia in public coffers.


part of the problem has to do with the fact that many, especially in government, have trouble imagining an economy without money. it's not so much defeatism as lack of imagination, or self-preservation. without money and a tax structure government/politicians would be out of a job, hence the "impossibility". this is why capitalism has become the axiomatic default structure, and the political ideas discussed only revolve around distribution schemes: more or less "socialist"-"welfare statist".

what's forgotten in economy is what money represents: labor, creativity, resources. it's these three that make up an economy. money is a means not an end.

what's an economist without money? answer that question (and it is answerable) and one sees that the entire dichotomy (possibilism/impossibilism) is false, is a chimera.

the question is ethical-political. what kind of society do we want?

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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Nordic » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:45 am

but every system is vulnerable.

look at the sheer amount of money, effort, thought, and manpower expended to maintain the corrent system. those in charge know damn well how vulnerable it is, or they wouldn't bother with such an onslaught of 24/7 propaganda and control mechanisms.

this entire system is driven by paranoia that people who are intelligent and moral might step in and break up the criminal party.

even those who mean well have to do this to survive. look at castro and chavez.

the mistake that what i'll call "the left" makes over and over again is believing that everyone will succumb to the rightness of their cause.. they might for a short period. but without constant vigilance and a willingness to play hardball, the bad guys always try to take over. you blink and they've won again.

it sucks but that's how it is.

that's why a enforced system of laws are so important. some would call this "regulation".

there is no utopia. not with human nature being what it is.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby vanlose kid » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:56 am

*

well, if "regulation" means outlawing capitalism and all it entails then i'm all for it.

and that is not impossible.

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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Jeff » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:03 am

Perhaps it's incrementalism vs - what would it be? There are so few parliamentary examples. Comprehensive radicalism? I can't think of a single example in the northern hemisphere. In the south, there are contenders. Bolivia's Movement Towards Socialism, for one. Even its name proposes an embarkation on a project of which attaining power is only a beginning.

From the original link:

...in 1896 Ramsay MacDonald, in urging "socialists more frequently to put themselves in the position of the man in the street", warned that:

We can talk socialism seriously to him and we will likely disgust him; we may gas sentimentalities to him and we may capture a member who will only be one more impossibilist in our movement.

...MacDonald and the Independent Labour Party (ILP) pursued the propaganda of condescension, assured in their own minds that the presentation to workers of the revolutionary alternative to capitalism would cause disgust....


First and second generation incrementalists wanted to make a concrete difference in the lives of ordinary people, never mind the theory. And that did enjoy success (which has been under assault ever since). But the third and fourth generation of leaders begin from such a position of compromise that the theory, and comprehensive vision, are thought meaningless and a millstone to further political success. Which, when finally attained, at last finds them indistinguishable from their opposition, and the grotesqueries of Tony Blair and the "socialist" leadership of the IMF.

BTW, this thread's official theme song:

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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby barracuda » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:19 am

I pondered all these things, and how men fight and lose the battle, and the thing that they fought for comes about in spite of their defeat, and when it comes turns out not to be what they meant, and other men have to fight for what they meant under another name.

- William Morris
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:37 am

But the very idea that we should change a whole system is what trips us up.
Caught in the marketing of the idea are the pitfalls that entrap any whole system:
"Yes, but..."
"Well have you thought of..."
"What about..."

I think it might well be pointless for political parties to base their appeal on ideas of systems or systemic change. People do vote for ideas, sure... but can't those ideas be a lot more immediate, a lot smaller, than whole systems?

The NDP (or any political party anywhere on earth) can say whatever they want in their platform and constitution and that might get them some followers. What happens, though, is that individual policies and votes and debates are never about systems, and weary people lose all connection to the players who represent them.

If I were a politician, I'd promise railroads - not public transportation. I'd promise nursing homes here and here, not elder care. Just examples, of course.

It seems it might be time to move past labels like capitalism and socialism and just take one real, meaningful step after another to see where we end up.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby vanlose kid » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:50 pm

Jeff wrote:Perhaps it's incrementalism vs - what would it be? There are so few parliamentary examples. Comprehensive radicalism? I can't think of a single example in the northern hemisphere. In the south, there are contenders. Bolivia's Movement Towards Socialism, for one. Even its name proposes an embarkation on a project of which attaining power is only a beginning....


not incrementalism. forget representative democracy.

so, should we call it what would it be?

In Greece, we see democracy in action

The public debates of the outraged in Athens are the closest we have come to democratic practice in recent European history

guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 15 June 2011 11.00 BST

Syntagma square: 'The parallels with the classical Athenian agora, which met a few hundred metres away, are striking'. Photograph: Pascal Rossignol/Reuters

When Stéphane Hessel wrote in Time for Outrage! that indignation with injustice should turn to "a peaceful insurrection" perhaps he did not expect that the movement of indignados in Spain and aganaktismenoi (outraged) in Greece would take his advice to heart so soon and so spectacularly.

The Greek resistance to the catastrophic economic measures was expected. Throughout modern history the Greeks have resisted foreign occupation and domestic dictatorship with determination and sacrifice. The measures imposed by the IMF, EU and European Central Bank with the full accord, if not invitation, of the Greek government, have led to 11 one-day general strikes, numerous regional strikes and imaginative acts of resistance. Domestic and foreign media avidly reported the confrontations between youths and the riot police that followed major demonstrations and left a thick cloud of teargas hanging over Athens. Led by the parties of the left and some unions, these protests outshone the anti-austerity demonstrations in the rest of Europe. But the relentless scare campaign by establishment media, experts and elite intellectuals spread fear and guilt to the majority of the population and soon succeeded in limiting resistance.

Three weeks ago, things changed. A motley multitude of indignant men and women of all ideologies, ages, occupations, including the many unemployed, began occupying Syntagma – the central square of Athens opposite parliament; the area around White Tower in Thessaloniki; and public spaces in other major cities. The daily occupations and rallies, sometimes involving more than 100,000 people, have been peaceful, with the police observing from a distance. Calling themselves the "outraged", the people have attacked the unjust pauperising of working Greeks, the loss of sovereignty that has turned the country into a neocolonial fiefdom of bankers, and the destruction of democracy. Their common demand is that the corrupt political elites who have ruled the country for some 30 years and brought it to the edge of collapse should go. Political parties and banners are discouraged.

Thousands of people come together daily in Syntagma to discuss the next steps. The parallels with the classical Athenian agora, which met a few hundred metres away, are striking. Aspiring speakers are given a number and called to the platform if that number is drawn, a reminder that many office-holders in classical Athens were selected by lots. The speakers stick to strict two-minute slots to allow as many as possible to contribute. The assembly is efficiently run without the usual heckling of public speaking. The topics range from organisational matters to new types of resistance and international solidarity, to alternatives to the catastrophically unjust measures. No issue is beyond proposal and disputation. In well-organised weekly debates, invited economists, lawyers and political philosophers present alternatives for tackling the crisis.

This is democracy in action. The views of the unemployed and the university professor are given equal time, discussed with equal vigour and put to the vote for adoption. The outraged have reclaimed the square from commercial activities and transformed it into a real space of public interaction. The usual late-evening TV viewing time has instead become a time for being with others and discussing the common good. If democracy is the power of the "demos", in other words the rule of those who have no particular qualification for ruling, whether of wealth, power or knowledge, this is the closest we have come to democratic practice in recent European history.

Syntagma's highly articulate debates have discredited the banal mantra that most issues of public policy are too technical for ordinary people and must be left to experts. The realisation that the demos has more collective nous than any leader, a constitutive belief of the classical agora, is now returning to Athens. The outraged have shown that parliamentary democracy must be supplemented with its more direct version. It is a timely reminder as the belief in political representation is coming under pressure throughout Europe.

The Pasok government's response has been embarrassingly muted so far. Establishment propagandists blame the protests and the limited violence that followed on the divided left. This tactic cannot work with the outraged, who come from all parties and none. A determined campaign has been agreed to stop parliament voting in the new measures that President George Papandreou agreed with the bankers and Germany's Chancellor Merkel, which would extend and expand the current recession and rising unemployment until at least 2015 – a cure much worse than the disease. The reaction to these measures will be the high point of the confrontation between "insiders" and outraged, now entering its endgame. Today, the Syntagma multitude is joining forces with the unions in a general strike and the encircling of parliament.

Syntagma is now closer to Cairo's Tahrir Square than to Madrid's Puerta del Sol. The experience of standing daily and confronting the parliament opposite has changed the politics of Greece for good and made the elites worried for the first time. In Greek, the word stasis means an upright posture as well as revolt or insurrection. The square was named after 19th-century demonstrations, which demanded a constitution (syntagma) from the king. This is what the outraged repeat today: they are standing upright, demanding a new political arrangement to free them from neoliberal domination and political corruption.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... d-protests


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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby American Dream » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:18 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:
But the very idea that we should change a whole system is what trips us up.
Caught in the marketing of the idea are the pitfalls that entrap any whole system:
"Yes, but..."
"Well have you thought of..."
"What about..."

I think it might well be pointless for political parties to base their appeal on ideas of systems or systemic change. People do vote for ideas, sure... but can't those ideas be a lot more immediate, a lot smaller, than whole systems


I don't really think it's reforms vs. revolution. We do need fundamental change in the institutions of society and we also need immediate reforms. And sometimes- just sometimes- reforms can be part of a more radical (i.e. to the roots) process of change.

Either way, the task at hand is essentially the same- to organize people's power at the grassroots and advance our agenda independently- when we engage with the officially sanctioned "democratic process" and when we act outside of it.
"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything."
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:20 pm

timely and related:

http://steelweaver.tumblr.com/post/6555 ... ought-tank

A million individuals can overthrow a government, but can’t build anything in its place, can’t stop the vacuum being filled by invisible, insidious forces worse than the nation state.
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Jeff » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:38 pm

And back to William Morris:

One man with an idea in his head is in danger of being considered a madman: two men with the same idea in common may be foolish, but can hardly be mad; ten men sharing an idea begin to act, a hundred draw attention as fanatics, a thousand and society begins to tremble, a hundred thousand and there is war abroad, and the cause has victories tangible and real; and why only a hundred thousand? Why not a hundred million and peace upon the earth? You and I who agree together, it is we who have to answer that question.


And it's a measure of the failings of incrementalism that I expect disappointment, but I didn't expect the depth of this betrayal until after they actually form a government.

NDP veer right after decades of hugging the left

OTTAWA - Is the New Democratic Party looking more like the Liberal Party in drag these days?

After decades of hugging the left, eyebrows are being raised at the party's tilt to the right - which reminds us of the old political axiom that if you can't beat them, join them and success will follow.

...

But events make one pause, including the party's unanimous support of NATO bombing raids in Libya and proposed changes to its constitution to erase the word socialism.

And why would a senior party activist - a former Layton spokesman - take to Twitter on Wednesday to disavow a 14-year-old wing of the party, called the socialist caucus - a group numbering in the hundreds who fear the party is moving in the wrong direction.

Ian Capstick's Tweets comes on the eve of the party's Vancouver convention, where delegates will be under increased media scrutiny as they debate policy while celebrating its historic election win.

"The so-called 'socialist caucus' should go join one of the two Canadian political parties that do espouse their believes (sic)," Capstick wrote. [meaning, the Communist Party and the Marxist Leninists]

Barry Weisleder, chairman of the caucus and a longtime member of the NDP, brushed aside Capstick's views, saying the caucus is flourishing and will continue to champion the issues of the left in Vancouver.

Among them - pulling out of NATO, boycotting Israel, phasing out the tarsands, legalizing marijuana, nationalizing the auto, oil, gas, banks and insurance sectors, repealing the Clarity Act - policies that are no longer the flavour of the party's mainstream and will not see the light of day.

"Essentially the party membership faces a choice," says Weisleder. "Do we want to have two Liberal parties in Canada?


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/20 ... 88661.html
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby hanshan » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:26 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:timely and related:

http://steelweaver.tumblr.com/post/6555 ... ought-tank

A million individuals can overthrow a government, but can’t build anything in its place, can’t stop the vacuum being filled by invisible, insidious forces worse than the nation state.



Sad, really...


...
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Re: Possibilism and Impossibilism

Postby Project Willow » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:43 pm

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