The Brexit thread

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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Morty » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:16 am

“There is great disorder under heaven. The situation is excellent.”


It sounded like a typically pithy Taoist quote when I first read it, and I instinctively approved in the context of the Brexit (given the complete shittiness of the early 21C status quo), but oops, it was Chairman Mao who said it.

From this Tariq Ali piece:
June 24, 2016
Panic in the House: Brexit as Revolt Against the Political Establishment

by Tariq Ali


“There is great disorder under heaven. The situation is excellent.”

— Chairman Mao

The Referendum results have created a full-blown crisis in the UK and total panic in Brussels. Denmark and Holland will go next. The French elite will be under huge pressure to concede a referendum. The German establishment will be meeting frequently and in secret to prepare a Plan B, which will mean a serious restructuring of the Eurozone.

It was a revolt against the political establishment (Ed Miliband acknowledged this fact) and had Jeremy Corbyn come out for LEAVE his party would have been in a very strong position. The Tories are wounded. Labour and others should demand an early election. Impossible to wait till 2020. And the election campaign should be waged fiercely for an anti-capitalist programme and fighting the Right on racism/xenophobia, etc. Mass campaigning of the sort that won Corbyn the leadership is the way forward.

PS: After I debated Varoufakis he came and whispered in my ear: ‘Tariq, don’t doubt that if there is a Brexit, I won’t be shedding any tears.’

Time for him to say it in public…

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/24/ ... blishment/
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby stefano » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:41 am

Tariq Ali wrote:The French elite will be under huge pressure to concede a referendum.

I don't think so, hey. The Front National's voters might want the same thing, but everyone else - 73% of the electorate, on last year's regional results - probably don't think this is a terrific outcome. I can't see anyone in the Socialist Party - that's the party in government now - backing Fruckoff, so where would this "huge pressure" come from?

Tariq Ali wrote:had Jeremy Corbyn come out for LEAVE his party would have been in a very strong position.

No, that is completely the wrong way around. Labour is in a strong position precisely because it stayed fairly united - Corbyn is now under pressure because he personally looked insufficiently energetic in campaigning for Remain. And I think a more business-friendly wing is now calculating that they could win some Remain-minded Tory support if they ditch the beardie and bring back David Miliband - dunno if you noticed some pushing of his name these past days. Watch that space.

Tariq Ali wrote:Labour and others should demand an early election. Impossible to wait till 2020.

Dissolving the Commons would require votes from 114 Tory MPs, plus all MPs from all other parties. Would that many Tories vote in favour of having to essentially ask their constituents for their jobs again? Doubtful.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby stefano » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:45 am

82_28 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:00 am wrote:(Sorry, Stefano. I left out South Africa as an English speaking country. Just thought of that.)

Yeah and some other places. There are more English speakers in Nigeria than in Britain, for instance. Another 120 million or so in India.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby 82_28 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:00 am

The one and only time I've been to London our first "friend" was this guy Antony from SA and I need to get some sort of VCR because I just found this tape I would like to digitize. Gotta figure that shit out. Maybe I'll see if I can find one today.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Morty » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:14 am

(Where's the dang "thanks" button?) Thanks for your response, Stefano! I haven't followed the Brexit debate for a single unnecessary minute before the vote, due to being quite confident that the vote would be for Remain. So I don't know shit about any of this, but no doubt that will not stop me posting further on the issue.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby conniption » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:20 am

counterpunch

June 24, 2016
Goodbye to All That: Why the UK Left the EU


by Pepe Escobar

Image

So what started as a gamble by David Cameron on an outlet for domestic British discontent, to be used as a lever to bargain with Brussels for a few more favors, has metastasized into an astonishing political earthquake about the dis-integration of the European Union.

The irrepressibly mediocre Donald Tusk, president of the European Council, posing as a “historian”, had warned that Brexit, “could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but Western political civilization in its entirety”.
continued...


~~~

counterpunch


June 24, 2016
¡Basta Ya, Brussels! British Voters Reject EU Corporate Slavestate


by Mike Whitney

Image

“Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue of supporting it.”

— Thomas Paine

British voters delivered a savage deathblow to the EU corporate superstate on Thursday sending global markets tumbling and forcing Prime Minister David Cameron to announce his resignation. The narrow victory, which caught the prognosticators by surprise, is the strongest sign yet that working people across the continent are awakening to economic and political disaster that has been created in the name of European integration. Not only has the EU failed to live up to its promise of lifting all boats and widening prosperity, it has also transformed the region into a low-growth, high unemployment charnel house where bankers and their corporate allies siphon off the wealth of the weaker states to enrich high-flying speculators and voracious bondholders. And while the referendum’s outcome will surely be challenged in the months to come, it represents a critical turning point in the public’s attitude towards a thoroughly reactionary and odious institution that is solely responsible for the abysmal state of the economy, the progressive erosion of living standards, and steady rise of right wing extremism.
continued...
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:23 am

As has been wryly noted already, there is only one precedent to refer to here. Greenland left the EU in 1985 after two years of negotiation. It has a population of 55,000, and only one product: fish.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... britain-eu
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:51 am

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby SonicG » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:45 pm

The "MR. Global" yakadoodle in a hat (in the video posted upthread) was going off about Britain now moving towards some Chinese-Russian scheme that is a response to Rothschild reptilian domination or whatever, but it is interesting that timing of this coincided:

‘Our views are either similar or coincide’: Putin on comprehensive strategic China-Russia alliance
In terms of cooperation in the international arena, besides the United Nations, Putin noted the importance of the joint work in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and BRICS. The SCO, Putin said, remains an “essential element” that ensures stability and security in the region, as he expressed hope that more nations will join the bloc.

Beijing-based SCO, created in 2001, is a political and security organization. It comprises China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan. India and Pakistan are expected to become full members of the SCO after they are formally admitted into the organization at the SCO summit in Uzbekistan’s capital Tashkent, which begins on Thursday. The work of the organization includes intelligence sharing, counter-terrorism operations, and a joint fight against cyber terrorism in Central Asia.

“At the summit held last year in Ufa, Russia, we decided to admit another two states to the SCO - India, and Pakistan. We are to formalize this decision at the Tashkent meeting. We will also consider the intentions of other countries to join our work,” Putin said, adding that admitting more members will turn the organization into a “very powerful” association that “commands respect and is relevant both in the region and worldwide.”

https://www.rt.com/news/347879-putin-ru ... -alliance/

It seems overly facile to pretend that this is some great blow against oligarchs and, of course, the Reptilians, as the outcome vis-a-vis China and Russia is not quite a given:

He Weiwen, co-director of the China-US-EU Study Centre under the China Association of International Trade, part of the Ministry of Commerce, is blunt; “The European Union is likely to adopt a more protectionist approach when dealing with China. For Chinese companies which have set up headquarters or branches in the UK, they may not be able to enjoy tariff-free access to the wider European market after Britain leave the EU.”

That applies, for instance, to leading Chinese high-tech companies like Huawei and Tencent. Between 2000 and 2015, Britain was the top European destination for Chinese direct investment, and was the second-largest trading partner with China inside the EU.

Still, it may all revert into a win-win for China. Germany, France and Luxembourg – all of them competing with London for the juicy offshore yuan business – will increase their role. Chen Long, economist with Bank of Dongguan, is confident “the European continent, especially Central and Eastern European countries, will be more actively involved in China’s ‘One Belt, One Road’ programs.”


And, as a British friend of mine pointed out, the UK has a royal family that is still legally empowered to rule over the legislature, itself consisting of an unelected upper house and an non-directly elected PM, so for them to claim it is a return to democratic rule...It seems pretty obvious that the break-off of the EU will take years and cost billions, such that I sincerely doubt that Britainers will ever see any great benefit in the short term of 5-10 years, and by that time who knows what the political-economic landscape will be...
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Nordic » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:50 pm

seemslikeadream » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:23 am wrote:As has been wryly noted already, there is only one precedent to refer to here. Greenland left the EU in 1985 after two years of negotiation. It has a population of 55,000, and only one product: fish.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... britain-eu



They're starting to find some interesting resources under the glaciers as they melt. Precious metals and stones.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:53 pm

SonicG wrote:The "MR. Global" yakadoodle in a hat (in the video posted upthread) was going off about Britain now moving towards some Chinese-Russian scheme that is a response to Rothschild reptilian domination or whatever


It's more than a little bit, uh, disingenuous and overly facile to pretend Farrell's argument has anything whatsoever to do with "reptilians."

Is criticism of the Rothschild family now disallowed without it being assumed prima facie to be an interdimensional reptilian conspiracy?
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby SonicG » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:35 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:53 am wrote:
SonicG wrote:The "MR. Global" yakadoodle in a hat (in the video posted upthread) was going off about Britain now moving towards some Chinese-Russian scheme that is a response to Rothschild reptilian domination or whatever


It's more than a little bit, uh, disingenuous and overly facile to pretend Farrell's argument has anything whatsoever to do with "reptilians."

Is criticism of the Rothschild family now disallowed without it being assumed prima facie to be an interdimensional reptilian conspiracy?


Nope, but it will be up for mockery when someone tries to make an argument by using "Mr. Global"...His argument also had to do with attacks on "traditional culture" by Muslim immigrants who are holding secret trials under their own laws and want to impost it on you and your fellow white folks...Sorry, but I found his whole analysis overly facile, wanting, shallow and wrongheaded, thus the mocking. YMMV.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:02 pm

SonicG » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:35 pm wrote:Nope, but it will be up for mockery when someone tries to make an argument by using "Mr. Global"...His argument also had to do with attacks on "traditional culture" by Muslim immigrants who are holding secret trials under their own laws and want to impost it on you and your fellow white folks...Sorry, but I found his whole analysis overly facile, wanting, shallow and wrongheaded, thus the mocking. YMMV.


"Mr. Global" is a short-hand term used by Catherine Austin Fitts, former Asst Secretary of Housing under Bush 41 (she wrote the foreward to Ruppert's Crossing the Rubicon), and is just her personal term for TPTB, the Elites, or any other phrase 99% of the posters here would use. Using that as a reason to discount his message seems the most facile argument here to me...

The immigration part he specifically mentioned immigrant muslims wishing to practice Sharia law in local communities in England. Your objection isn't clear... do you doubt the claims entirely or are you offended at a perceived racial intolerance? Both? I don't know the details or sources he's referencing there, but I certainly can't imagine Americans taking too kindly to such a thing (and I'm someone interested who'd actually be interested in seeing a privatized justice system), so I would expect Britons might not as well. Especially in a world where every couple of months we become more deeply programmed to associate Islam with extremist violence and hatred. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings I can easily see that as one factor in the vote's outcome.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby SonicG » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:19 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:02 am wrote:
SonicG » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:35 pm wrote:Nope, but it will be up for mockery when someone tries to make an argument by using "Mr. Global"...His argument also had to do with attacks on "traditional culture" by Muslim immigrants who are holding secret trials under their own laws and want to impost it on you and your fellow white folks...Sorry, but I found his whole analysis overly facile, wanting, shallow and wrongheaded, thus the mocking. YMMV.


"Mr. Global" is a short-hand term used by Catherine Austin Fitts, former Asst Secretary of Housing under Bush 41 (she wrote the foreward to Ruppert's Crossing the Rubicon), and is just her personal term for TPTB, the Elites, or any other phrase 99% of the posters here would use. Using that as a reason to discount his message seems the most facile argument here to me...

The immigration part he specifically mentioned immigrant muslims wishing to practice Sharia law in local communities in England. Your objection isn't clear... do you doubt the claims entirely or are you offended at a perceived racial intolerance? Both? I don't know the details or sources he's referencing there, but I certainly can't imagine Americans taking too kindly to such a thing (and I'm someone interested who'd actually be interested in seeing a privatized justice system), so I would expect Britons might not as well. Especially in a world where every couple of months we become more deeply programmed to associate Islam with extremist violence and hatred. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings I can easily see that as one factor in the vote's outcome.


It is more when he tries to counter "Mr. Global" with China and Russia, as if they all aren't pushing towards the same thing, and it isn't UN one-world domination...Yeah, secret sharia courts, with absolutely no proof. Boogey men that Brexit won't have one iota of influence on. And Hatty Wakadoodle seems to buy into the "must protect our culture" BS, which certainly influenced voters but I would never embrace that... I am mostly opposed to claiming that Brexit is some great blow to "Mr. Globalist" by the put-upon masses. It was no overwhelming win, only a few percentage points, and an even smaller percentage if looking at all eligible voter.
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Reptiliaforming

Postby Harvey » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:30 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:53 am wrote:Is criticism of the Rothschild family now disallowed without it being assumed prima facie to be an interdimensional reptilian conspiracy?


It's all true, it says so right here via this theory

Now if you're wondering why EU farm subsidy requires that:

...you don’t have to produce any food to receive them. Your land just has to look agricultural, which means bare. Among the “ineligible features” listed in Westminster’s version of the European rules are ponds, wide hedges, regenerating woodland, reed beds, thriving salt marsh and trees sufficient to form a canopy. The common agricultural policy is a €55bn incentive to destroy wildlife habitats and cause floods downstream.

George Monbiot - Guardian


...Or why we frack, or why we drive around incessantly often alone, or burn so much stuff, or burn other people who have flammable stuff to burn wasting under their soil. Perhaps Dave is onto something, we are all merely Reptiliaforming machinery transforming all of earth into suitable habitat for our reptilian friends, without ever knowing who or what our real masters are.

Discovery of the first Mosasaur at Maastricht

Image

Makes you think.

It usually takes several decades for decent SF stories to work their way into the mainstream:
In Theodore Sturgeon's "Occam's Scalpel" (August 1971 If), the notion that Earth's ongoing Pollution problem results from attempted xenoforming is presented as a hoax backed by a fake alien, but with a suggestion that this may nevertheless be the truth.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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