Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

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Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:31 pm

Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives
Genome analysis suggests there was interbreeding between modern humans, Neanderthals, Denisovans and an unknown archaic population.

Ewen Callaway
19 November 2013

Updated genome sequences from two extinct relatives of modern humans suggest that these ‘archaic’ groups bred with humans and with each other more extensively than was previously known.

The ancient genomes, one from a Neanderthal and one from a member of an archaic human group called the Denisovans, were presented on 18 November at a meeting on ancient DNA at the Royal Society in London. The results suggest that interbreeding went on between the members of several ancient human-like groups in Europe and Asia more than 30,000 years ago, including an as-yet-unknown human ancestor from Asia.

“What it begins to suggest is that we’re looking at a Lord of the Rings-type world — that there were many hominid populations,” says Mark Thomas, an evolutionary geneticist at University College London who was at the meeting but was not involved in the work.

The first published Neanderthal1 and Denisovan2 genome sequences revolutionized the study of ancient human history, not least because they showed that these groups bred with anatomically modern humans, contributing to the genetic diversity of many people alive today.

Mixed heritage
All modern humans whose ancestry originates outside of Africa owe about 2% of their genome to Neanderthals. Certain populations living in Oceania, such as Papua New Guineans and Australian Aboriginals, share about 4% of their DNA with Denisovans, members of a group named after a cave in the Altai Mountains in Siberia, Russia, where they were discovered. The cave contains remains deposited between 30,000 and 50,000 years ago.

At the meeting, however, David Reich, an evolutionary geneticist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts, who worked on those studies, said that the conclusions were based on low-quality genome sequences, riddled with errors and full of gaps. His team, along with collaborator Svante Pääbo at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, has now produced much more complete versions of the Denisovan and Neanderthal genomes — matching the quality of contemporary human genomes. These high-quality Denisovan and Neanderthal sequences are both based on bones from the Denisova Cave.

The Denisovan genome indicates that the population got around: Reich said at the meeting that as well as interbreeding with the ancestors of Oceanians, they also bred with Neanderthals and the ancestors of modern humans in China and other parts of East Asia. Most surprisingly, Reich said, the genomes indicate that Denisovans interbred with yet another extinct population of archaic humans that lived in Asia more than 30,000 years ago — one that is neither human nor Neanderthal.

The meeting was abuzz with conjecture about the identity of this unknown population of humans. “We don’t have the faintest idea,” says Chris Stringer, a paleoanthropologist at the Natural History Museum in London, who was not involved in the work. He speculates that the population could be related to Homo heidelbergensis, a species that left Africa around half a million years ago and later gave rise to Neanderthals in Europe. “Perhaps it lived on in Asia as well,” says Stringer.
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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby NeonLX » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:33 pm

Cool.

People have always been getting around.
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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby NaturalMystik » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:29 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:31 pm wrote:Most surprisingly, Reich said, the genomes indicate that Denisovans interbred with yet another extinct population of archaic humans that lived in Asia more than 30,000 years ago — one that is neither human nor Neanderthal.

The meeting was abuzz with conjecture about the identity of this unknown population of humans. “We don’t have the faintest idea,” says Chris Stringer, a paleoanthropologist at the Natural History Museum in London, who was not involved in the work...


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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby Harvey » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:14 pm

Came across this fascinating account. It's wonderful to imagine that a small group of Denisovans still live peacefully in Shangri-La...

Excerpt from The Third Eye (1956) by T. LOBSANG RAMPA: https://web.archive.org/web/20150906005 ... rd-Eye.pdf

(from page 160 onward)

During this time we went to the Chang Tang Highlands. In this book there is no time for more than a brief mention of this region.To do the expedition justice would require several books. The Dalai Lama had blessed each of the fifteen members of the party and we had all set off in high spirits, mounted on mules: mules will go where horses will not. We made our slow way along by Tengri Tso, on to the huge lakes at Zilling Nor, and ever northwards. The slow climb over the Tangla Range, and on into unexplored territory.It is difficult to say how long we took, because time meant nothing to us: there was no reason for us to hurry, we went at our own comfortable speed and saved our strength and energy for later exertions.

As we made our way farther and farther into the Highlands, the ground ever rising, I was reminded of the face of the moon as seen through the large telescope at the Potala. Immense mountain ranges, and deep canyons. Here the vista was the same. The unending, eternal mountains, and crevices which seemed bottomless. We struggled on through this “lunar landscape”, finding the conditions becoming harder and harder. At last the mules could go no farther. In the rarefied air they were soon spent and could not manage to cross some of the rocky gorges where we swung dizzily at the end of a yak-hair rope. In the most sheltered spot we could find we left our mules and the five weakest members of the party stayed with them. They were sheltered from the worst blasts of that barren, wind-swept landscape by a spur of rock which towered upwards like a jagged wolf fang. At the base there was a cave where softer rock had been eroded by time. A precipitous path could be followed which would lead downwards to a valley where there was sparse vegetation on which the mules could feed. A tinkling stream dashed along the tableland and rushed over the edge of a cliff to fall thousands of feet below, so far below that even the sound of its landing was lost.

Here we rested for two days before plodding on higher and higher. Our backs ached with the loads we were carrying, and our lungs felt as if they would burst for want of air. On we went, over crevices and ravines. Over many of them we had to toss iron hooks to which ropes were attached. Toss, and hope that there would be a safe hold at the other side. We would take turns to swing the rope with the hook, and take turns to swarm across when a hold was secured. Once across we had another end of rope so that when all the party had negotiated the canyon, the rope also could be brought over by pulling one end. Sometimes we could get no hold.Then one of us would have the rope tied around his waist, and from the highest point we could reach, would try to swing like a pendulum, increasing the momentum with each swing. With one of us across the other side, he would have to clamber up as best he could in order to reach a point where the rope would be roughly horizontal. We all took it in turns tod o this, as it was hard and dangerous work.

One monk was killed doing it. He had climbed high on our side of a cliff and let himself swing. Apparently he badly misjudged, for he crashed into the opposite wall with terrible force, leaving his face and his brains on the points of the jagged rocks. We hauled the body back, and had a service for him. There was no way of burying the body in solid rock, so we left him for the wind and the rain and the birds. The monk whose turn it now was did not look at all happy, so I went instead. It was obvious tome that in view of the predictions about me, I should be quite safe and my faith was rewarded. My own swing was cautious—in spite of the prediction!—and I reached with scrabbling fingers for the edge of the nearest rock. Only just did I manage to hang on and pull myself up, with the breath rasping my throat, and my heart pounding as if it would explode. For a time I lay, quite spent, then I managed to crawl a painful way up the mountain-side. The others, the best companions that anyone could have, swung their other rope to give me the best possible chance of reaching it. With the two ends now in my grasp, I made them secure and called out to them to pull hard and test it. One by one they came over, upside down, hands and feet linked over the rope, robes fluttering in the still breeze, the breeze which impeded us and did not help our breathing at all.

At the top of the cliff we rested a while and made our tea,although at this altitude the boiling-point was low, and the tea did not really warm us. Somewhat less tired now, we again took up our loads and stumbled onwards into the heart of this terrible region. Soon we came to a sheet of ice, a glacier, maybe, and our process became even more difficult. We had no spiked boots, no ice-axes, or mountaineering equipment; our only “equipment”consisted of our ordinary felt boots with the soles bound with hair to afford some grip, and ropes.

In passing, Tibetan mythology has a Cold Hell. Warmth is a blessing to us, so the opposite is cold, hence the cold hell. This trip to the Highlands showed me what cold could be!

After three days of this shuffling upwards over the ice-sheet,shivering in the bitter wind and wishing that we had never seen the place, the glacier led us downwards between towering rocks. Down and down we went, fumbling and slipping, down into an unknown depth. Several miles farther on we rounded a shoulder of a mountain and saw before us a dense white fog. From a distance we did not know if it was snow or cloud, it was so white and unbroken.As we approached we saw that it was indeed fog, as tendrils kept breaking away and drifting off.

The Lama Mingyar Dondup, the only one of us who had been here before, smiled with satisfaction: “You do look a cheerless lot! But you will have some pleasure now.” We saw nothing pleasant before us. Fog. Cold. Frozen ice below our feet and frozen sky above our heads. Jagged rocks like the fangs in a wolf’s mouth, rocks against which we bruised ourselves.And my Guide said that we were going to have “some pleasure”!

On into the cold and clammy fog we went, miserably plodding we knew not where. Hugging our robes about us for an illusion of warmth. Panting and shuddering with the cold. Farther, and yet farther in. And stopped, petrified with amazement and fright. The fog was becoming warm, the ground was growing hot. Those behind who had not reached so far, and could not see, bumped into us. Recovered somewhat from our stupefaction by the Lama Mingyar Dondup's laughter, we pushed forward again, blindly,reaching out for the man ahead, the one in the lead feeling unseeingly with his out-thrust staff. Below our feet stones threatened to trip us, pebbles rolled beneath our boots. Stones? Pebbles?Then where was the glacier, the ice? Quite suddenly the fog thinned, and we were through it. One by one we fumbled our way into—well, as I looked about me I thought that I had died of cold and had been transported to the Heavenly Fields. I rubbed my eyes with hot hands; I pinched myself and rapped my knuckles against a rock to see if I was flesh or spirit. But then I looked about: my eight companions were with me. Could we all have been so suddenly transported? And if so, what about the tenth member who had been killed against the rock face? And were we worthy of the heaven I saw before us?

Thirty heart-beats before we had been shivering with cold the other side of the fog-curtain. Now we were on the edge of collapse with the heat! The air shimmered, the ground steamed. A stream at our feet bubbled out of the earth itself, propelled by gouts of steam. About us there was green grass, greener than any I had ever seen before. Broad-leaved grass stood before us more than knee-high.We were dazed and frightened. Here was magic, something quite beyond our experience. Then the Lama Mingyar Dondup spoke: “If I looked like that when I first saw it, then I did look a sight! You fellows look as if you think the Ice Gods are having a sport with you.”

We looked about, almost too frightened to move, and then my Guide spoke again: “Let us jump over the stream, jump over, for the water is boiling. A few miles farther and we shall reach a really beautiful spot where we can rest.”

He was right, as ever. About three miles on we lay at full length on the moss-covered ground, lay without our robes as we felt asif we were being boiled. Here there were trees such as I had never seen before, and probably never shall see again. Highly coloured flowers bestrewed everything. Climbing vines laced the tree trunks and depended from the branches. Slightly to the right of the pleasant glade in which we rested we could see a small lake and ripples and circles on its surface indicated the presence of life within it. We still felt bewitched, we were sure that we had been overcome with the heat and passed to another plane of existence.Or had we been overcome with the cold? We did not know!

The foliage was luxuriant, now that I have travelled I should say that it was tropical. There were birds of a type even now strange to me. This was volcanic territory. Hot springs bubbled from the ground, and there were sulphurous odours. My Guide told us that there were, to his knowledge, two places only like this in the Highlands. He said that the underground heat, and the hot streams, melted the ice, and the high rock walls of the valley trapped the warm air. The dense white fog we had penetrated was the meeting-place of the hot and cold streams. He also told us that he had seen giant animal skeletons, skeletons which, in life, must have supported an animal twenty or thirty feet high. Later I sawbones myself.

Here I had my first sight of a yeti. I was bending picking herbs,when something made me look up. There, within ten yards of me,was this creature that I had heard so much about. Parents in Tibet often threaten naughty children with: “Behave yourself, or a yeti will get you!” Now, I thought, a yeti had got me and I was not happy about it. We looked at each other, both of us frozen with fright for a period which seemed ageless. It was pointing a hand at me, and uttering a curious mewing noise like a kitten. The head seemed to have no frontal lobes, but sloped back almost directly from the very heavy brows. The chin receded greatly and the teeth were large and prominent. Yet the skull capacity appeared similar to that of modern man with the exception of the missing forehead.The hands and feet were large and splayed. The legs were bowed and the arms were much longer than normal. I observed that the creature walked on the outer side of the feet as humans do. (Apes and others of that order do not walk on the outer surfaces.)

As I looked and perhaps jumped with fright, or from some other cause, the yeti screeched, turned, and leaped away. It seemed to make “one-leg” jumps and the result was like giant strides. My own reaction was also to run, in the opposite direction! Later,thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that I must have broken the Tibetan sprint record for altitudes above seventeen thousand feet.

Later we saw a few yetis in the distance. They hastened to hide at sight of us, and we certainly did not provoke them. The Lama Mingyar Dondup told us that these yetis were throwbacks of the human race who had taken a different path in evolution and who could only live in the most secluded places. Quite frequently we heard tales of yetis who had left the Highlands and had been seen leaping and bounding near inhabited regions. There are tales of lone women who have been carried off by male yetis. That may be one way in which they continue their line. Certainly some nuns confirmed this for us later when they told us that one of their Order had been carried off by a yeti in the night. However, on such things I am not competent to write. I can only say that I have seen yeti and baby yetis. I have also seen skeletons of them.

Some people have expressed doubts about the truth of my statements concerning the yetis. People have apparently written books of guesses about them, but none of these authors have seen one, as they admit. I have. A few years ago Marconi was laughed at when he said he was going to send a message by radio across the Atlantic. Western doctors solemnly asserted that Man could not travel at more than fifty miles an hour or they would die through the rush of air. There have been tales about a fish which was said to be a “living fossil”. Now scientists have seen them, captured them, dissected them. And if Western Man had his way, our poor old yetis would be captured, dissected and preserved in spirit.We believe that yetis have been driven to the Highlands and that elsewhere, except for very infrequent wanderers, they are extinct.The first sight of one causes fright. The second time one is filled with compassion for these creatures of a bygone age who are doomed to extinction through the strains of modern life.

I am prepared, when the Communists are chased out of Tibet, to accompany an expedition of skeptics and show them the yetis in the Highlands. It will be worth it to see the faces of these big business men when confronted with something beyond their commercial experience. They can use oxygen and bearers, I will use my old monk's robe. Cameras will prove the truth. We had no photographic equipment in Tibet in those days.

Our old legends relate that centuries ago Tibet had shores washed by the seas. Certain it is that fossils of fish and other marine creatures are to be found if the surface of the earth is disturbed. The Chinese have a similar belief. The Tablet of Yü which formerly stood on the Kou-lou peak of Mount Hêng in the province of Hu-pei records that the Great Yü rested upon the site (in 2278B.C.) after his labour of draining off the “waters of the deluge”which at the time submerged all China except the highest lands.The original stone has, I believe, been removed, but there are imitations at Wu-ch'ang Fu, a place near Hankow. A further copy is in the Yu-lin temple near Shao-hsing Fu in Chekiang. According to our belief, Tibet was once a low land, by the sea, and for reasons beyond our certain knowledge there were frightful earth-convulsions during which many lands sank beneath the waters, and others rose up as mountains.

The Chang Tang Highlands were rich in fossils, and in evidence that all this area had been a seashore. Giant shells, of vivid colours,curious stone sponges, and ridges of coral were common. Gold,too, was here, lumps of it which could be picked up as easily as could the pebbles. The waters which flowed from the depths of the earth were of all temperatures from boiling gouts of steam to near-freezing.It was a land of fantastic contrasts. Here there was a hot,humid atmosphere such as we had never before experienced. A few yards away, just the other side of a fog-curtain, there was the bitter cold that could sap the life and render a body as brittle as glass. The rarest of rare herbs grew here, and for those alone we had made this journey. Fruits were there, too, fruits such as we had never before seen. We tasted them, liked them, and satiated ourselves . . . the penalty was a hard one. During the night and the whole of next day we were too busy to gather herbs. Our stomachs were not used to such food. We left those fruits alone after that!

We loaded ourselves to the limit with herbs and plants, and retraced our footsteps through the fog. The cold the other side was terrible. Probably all of us felt like turning back and living in the luxuriant valley. One lama was unable to face the cold again.A few hours after passing the fog-curtain he collapsed, and although we camped then in an effort to help him, he was beyond aid, and went to the Heavenly Fields during the night. We did our best—throughout that night we had tried to warm him, lying on each side of him, but the bitter cold of that arid region was too much. He slept, and did not awaken. His load we shared between us, although we had considered before that we were laden to the limit. Back over that glittering sheet of age-old ice we retraced our painful steps. Our strength seemed to have been sapped by the comfortable warmth of the hidden valley, and we had insufficient food now. For the last two days of our journey back to the mules we did not eat at all—we had nothing left, not even tea.

.....

And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:03 pm

Harvey » 10 Jul 2021 09:14 wrote:Came across this fascinating account. It's wonderful to imagine that a small group of Denisovans still live peacefully in Shangri-La...

Excerpt from The Third Eye (1956) by T. LOBSANG RAMPA: https://web.archive.org/web/20150906005 ... rd-Eye.pdf

(from page 160 onward)

During this time we went to the Chang Tang Highlands. In this book there is no time for more than a brief mention of this region.To do the expedition justice would require several books. The Dalai Lama had blessed each of the fifteen members of the party and we had all set off in high spirits, mounted on mules: mules will go where horses will not. We made our slow way along by Tengri Tso, on to the huge lakes at Zilling Nor, and ever northwards. The slow climb over the Tangla Range, and on into unexplored territory.It is difficult to say how long we took, because time meant nothing to us: there was no reason for us to hurry, we went at our own comfortable speed and saved our strength and energy for later exertions.

As we made our way farther and farther into the Highlands, the ground ever rising, I was reminded of the face of the moon as seen through the large telescope at the Potala. Immense mountain ranges, and deep canyons. Here the vista was the same. The unending, eternal mountains, and crevices which seemed bottomless. We struggled on through this “lunar landscape”, finding the conditions becoming harder and harder. At last the mules could go no farther. In the rarefied air they were soon spent and could not manage to cross some of the rocky gorges where we swung dizzily at the end of a yak-hair rope. In the most sheltered spot we could find we left our mules and the five weakest members of the party stayed with them. They were sheltered from the worst blasts of that barren, wind-swept landscape by a spur of rock which towered upwards like a jagged wolf fang. At the base there was a cave where softer rock had been eroded by time. A precipitous path could be followed which would lead downwards to a valley where there was sparse vegetation on which the mules could feed. A tinkling stream dashed along the tableland and rushed over the edge of a cliff to fall thousands of feet below, so far below that even the sound of its landing was lost.

Here we rested for two days before plodding on higher and higher. Our backs ached with the loads we were carrying, and our lungs felt as if they would burst for want of air. On we went, over crevices and ravines. Over many of them we had to toss iron hooks to which ropes were attached. Toss, and hope that there would be a safe hold at the other side. We would take turns to swing the rope with the hook, and take turns to swarm across when a hold was secured. Once across we had another end of rope so that when all the party had negotiated the canyon, the rope also could be brought over by pulling one end. Sometimes we could get no hold.Then one of us would have the rope tied around his waist, and from the highest point we could reach, would try to swing like a pendulum, increasing the momentum with each swing. With one of us across the other side, he would have to clamber up as best he could in order to reach a point where the rope would be roughly horizontal. We all took it in turns tod o this, as it was hard and dangerous work.

One monk was killed doing it. He had climbed high on our side of a cliff and let himself swing. Apparently he badly misjudged, for he crashed into the opposite wall with terrible force, leaving his face and his brains on the points of the jagged rocks. We hauled the body back, and had a service for him. There was no way of burying the body in solid rock, so we left him for the wind and the rain and the birds. The monk whose turn it now was did not look at all happy, so I went instead. It was obvious tome that in view of the predictions about me, I should be quite safe and my faith was rewarded. My own swing was cautious—in spite of the prediction!—and I reached with scrabbling fingers for the edge of the nearest rock. Only just did I manage to hang on and pull myself up, with the breath rasping my throat, and my heart pounding as if it would explode. For a time I lay, quite spent, then I managed to crawl a painful way up the mountain-side. The others, the best companions that anyone could have, swung their other rope to give me the best possible chance of reaching it. With the two ends now in my grasp, I made them secure and called out to them to pull hard and test it. One by one they came over, upside down, hands and feet linked over the rope, robes fluttering in the still breeze, the breeze which impeded us and did not help our breathing at all.

At the top of the cliff we rested a while and made our tea,although at this altitude the boiling-point was low, and the tea did not really warm us. Somewhat less tired now, we again took up our loads and stumbled onwards into the heart of this terrible region. Soon we came to a sheet of ice, a glacier, maybe, and our process became even more difficult. We had no spiked boots, no ice-axes, or mountaineering equipment; our only “equipment”consisted of our ordinary felt boots with the soles bound with hair to afford some grip, and ropes.

In passing, Tibetan mythology has a Cold Hell. Warmth is a blessing to us, so the opposite is cold, hence the cold hell. This trip to the Highlands showed me what cold could be!

After three days of this shuffling upwards over the ice-sheet,shivering in the bitter wind and wishing that we had never seen the place, the glacier led us downwards between towering rocks. Down and down we went, fumbling and slipping, down into an unknown depth. Several miles farther on we rounded a shoulder of a mountain and saw before us a dense white fog. From a distance we did not know if it was snow or cloud, it was so white and unbroken.As we approached we saw that it was indeed fog, as tendrils kept breaking away and drifting off.

The Lama Mingyar Dondup, the only one of us who had been here before, smiled with satisfaction: “You do look a cheerless lot! But you will have some pleasure now.” We saw nothing pleasant before us. Fog. Cold. Frozen ice below our feet and frozen sky above our heads. Jagged rocks like the fangs in a wolf’s mouth, rocks against which we bruised ourselves.And my Guide said that we were going to have “some pleasure”!

On into the cold and clammy fog we went, miserably plodding we knew not where. Hugging our robes about us for an illusion of warmth. Panting and shuddering with the cold. Farther, and yet farther in. And stopped, petrified with amazement and fright. The fog was becoming warm, the ground was growing hot. Those behind who had not reached so far, and could not see, bumped into us. Recovered somewhat from our stupefaction by the Lama Mingyar Dondup's laughter, we pushed forward again, blindly,reaching out for the man ahead, the one in the lead feeling unseeingly with his out-thrust staff. Below our feet stones threatened to trip us, pebbles rolled beneath our boots. Stones? Pebbles?Then where was the glacier, the ice? Quite suddenly the fog thinned, and we were through it. One by one we fumbled our way into—well, as I looked about me I thought that I had died of cold and had been transported to the Heavenly Fields. I rubbed my eyes with hot hands; I pinched myself and rapped my knuckles against a rock to see if I was flesh or spirit. But then I looked about: my eight companions were with me. Could we all have been so suddenly transported? And if so, what about the tenth member who had been killed against the rock face? And were we worthy of the heaven I saw before us?

Thirty heart-beats before we had been shivering with cold the other side of the fog-curtain. Now we were on the edge of collapse with the heat! The air shimmered, the ground steamed. A stream at our feet bubbled out of the earth itself, propelled by gouts of steam. About us there was green grass, greener than any I had ever seen before. Broad-leaved grass stood before us more than knee-high.We were dazed and frightened. Here was magic, something quite beyond our experience. Then the Lama Mingyar Dondup spoke: “If I looked like that when I first saw it, then I did look a sight! You fellows look as if you think the Ice Gods are having a sport with you.”

We looked about, almost too frightened to move, and then my Guide spoke again: “Let us jump over the stream, jump over, for the water is boiling. A few miles farther and we shall reach a really beautiful spot where we can rest.”

He was right, as ever. About three miles on we lay at full length on the moss-covered ground, lay without our robes as we felt asif we were being boiled. Here there were trees such as I had never seen before, and probably never shall see again. Highly coloured flowers bestrewed everything. Climbing vines laced the tree trunks and depended from the branches. Slightly to the right of the pleasant glade in which we rested we could see a small lake and ripples and circles on its surface indicated the presence of life within it. We still felt bewitched, we were sure that we had been overcome with the heat and passed to another plane of existence.Or had we been overcome with the cold? We did not know!

The foliage was luxuriant, now that I have travelled I should say that it was tropical. There were birds of a type even now strange to me. This was volcanic territory. Hot springs bubbled from the ground, and there were sulphurous odours. My Guide told us that there were, to his knowledge, two places only like this in the Highlands. He said that the underground heat, and the hot streams, melted the ice, and the high rock walls of the valley trapped the warm air. The dense white fog we had penetrated was the meeting-place of the hot and cold streams. He also told us that he had seen giant animal skeletons, skeletons which, in life, must have supported an animal twenty or thirty feet high. Later I sawbones myself.

Here I had my first sight of a yeti. I was bending picking herbs,when something made me look up. There, within ten yards of me,was this creature that I had heard so much about. Parents in Tibet often threaten naughty children with: “Behave yourself, or a yeti will get you!” Now, I thought, a yeti had got me and I was not happy about it. We looked at each other, both of us frozen with fright for a period which seemed ageless. It was pointing a hand at me, and uttering a curious mewing noise like a kitten. The head seemed to have no frontal lobes, but sloped back almost directly from the very heavy brows. The chin receded greatly and the teeth were large and prominent. Yet the skull capacity appeared similar to that of modern man with the exception of the missing forehead.The hands and feet were large and splayed. The legs were bowed and the arms were much longer than normal. I observed that the creature walked on the outer side of the feet as humans do. (Apes and others of that order do not walk on the outer surfaces.)

As I looked and perhaps jumped with fright, or from some other cause, the yeti screeched, turned, and leaped away. It seemed to make “one-leg” jumps and the result was like giant strides. My own reaction was also to run, in the opposite direction! Later,thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that I must have broken the Tibetan sprint record for altitudes above seventeen thousand feet.

Later we saw a few yetis in the distance. They hastened to hide at sight of us, and we certainly did not provoke them. The Lama Mingyar Dondup told us that these yetis were throwbacks of the human race who had taken a different path in evolution and who could only live in the most secluded places. Quite frequently we heard tales of yetis who had left the Highlands and had been seen leaping and bounding near inhabited regions. There are tales of lone women who have been carried off by male yetis. That may be one way in which they continue their line. Certainly some nuns confirmed this for us later when they told us that one of their Order had been carried off by a yeti in the night. However, on such things I am not competent to write. I can only say that I have seen yeti and baby yetis. I have also seen skeletons of them.

Some people have expressed doubts about the truth of my statements concerning the yetis. People have apparently written books of guesses about them, but none of these authors have seen one, as they admit. I have. A few years ago Marconi was laughed at when he said he was going to send a message by radio across the Atlantic. Western doctors solemnly asserted that Man could not travel at more than fifty miles an hour or they would die through the rush of air. There have been tales about a fish which was said to be a “living fossil”. Now scientists have seen them, captured them, dissected them. And if Western Man had his way, our poor old yetis would be captured, dissected and preserved in spirit.We believe that yetis have been driven to the Highlands and that elsewhere, except for very infrequent wanderers, they are extinct.The first sight of one causes fright. The second time one is filled with compassion for these creatures of a bygone age who are doomed to extinction through the strains of modern life.

I am prepared, when the Communists are chased out of Tibet, to accompany an expedition of skeptics and show them the yetis in the Highlands. It will be worth it to see the faces of these big business men when confronted with something beyond their commercial experience. They can use oxygen and bearers, I will use my old monk's robe. Cameras will prove the truth. We had no photographic equipment in Tibet in those days.

Our old legends relate that centuries ago Tibet had shores washed by the seas. Certain it is that fossils of fish and other marine creatures are to be found if the surface of the earth is disturbed. The Chinese have a similar belief. The Tablet of Yü which formerly stood on the Kou-lou peak of Mount Hêng in the province of Hu-pei records that the Great Yü rested upon the site (in 2278B.C.) after his labour of draining off the “waters of the deluge”which at the time submerged all China except the highest lands.The original stone has, I believe, been removed, but there are imitations at Wu-ch'ang Fu, a place near Hankow. A further copy is in the Yu-lin temple near Shao-hsing Fu in Chekiang. According to our belief, Tibet was once a low land, by the sea, and for reasons beyond our certain knowledge there were frightful earth-convulsions during which many lands sank beneath the waters, and others rose up as mountains.

The Chang Tang Highlands were rich in fossils, and in evidence that all this area had been a seashore. Giant shells, of vivid colours,curious stone sponges, and ridges of coral were common. Gold,too, was here, lumps of it which could be picked up as easily as could the pebbles. The waters which flowed from the depths of the earth were of all temperatures from boiling gouts of steam to near-freezing.It was a land of fantastic contrasts. Here there was a hot,humid atmosphere such as we had never before experienced. A few yards away, just the other side of a fog-curtain, there was the bitter cold that could sap the life and render a body as brittle as glass. The rarest of rare herbs grew here, and for those alone we had made this journey. Fruits were there, too, fruits such as we had never before seen. We tasted them, liked them, and satiated ourselves . . . the penalty was a hard one. During the night and the whole of next day we were too busy to gather herbs. Our stomachs were not used to such food. We left those fruits alone after that!

We loaded ourselves to the limit with herbs and plants, and retraced our footsteps through the fog. The cold the other side was terrible. Probably all of us felt like turning back and living in the luxuriant valley. One lama was unable to face the cold again.A few hours after passing the fog-curtain he collapsed, and although we camped then in an effort to help him, he was beyond aid, and went to the Heavenly Fields during the night. We did our best—throughout that night we had tried to warm him, lying on each side of him, but the bitter cold of that arid region was too much. He slept, and did not awaken. His load we shared between us, although we had considered before that we were laden to the limit. Back over that glittering sheet of age-old ice we retraced our painful steps. Our strength seemed to have been sapped by the comfortable warmth of the hidden valley, and we had insufficient food now. For the last two days of our journey back to the mules we did not eat at all—we had nothing left, not even tea.

.....



You know that guy (Rampa) was a plumber from Devonshire right?
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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby Harvey » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:11 pm

It wouldn't surprise me. But what a great story. :wink
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:14 pm

Harvey » 10 Jul 2021 11:11 wrote:It wouldn't surprise me. But what a great story. :wink


Its a ripper of a tale.

The guy who wrote it, when he got busted, turned around and said "yeah but Rampa escaped his body and shares mine as a home for his soul."

The older I get the more skeptical I get of everything but I really hope that was true.

Some of the stuff he mentions seems like bullshit, especially some of the martial arts skills the Tibetan coppers had, but they do remarkable things in that part of the world. I've seen photos and heard eyewitness accounts of the lamas who train to control their body temperature and do things like sit out in the freezing snow covered in cold, wet towels and raise their body temperature to dry them out.

He also mentions (IIRC) a hidden valley where the mountains are so close together its almost invisible from above and a warm (cos the volcanic heat stays trapped) almost tropical paradise in the middle of the Himalayas. Imagine a crevice a few metres wide that just matches the suns pathway so you get constant sunlight, and a valley under it that opens up to hundreds of metres wide with fertile soil, running water and flat land to build on, where the heat is trapped by inversion effects. I'm sure that was in Rampa's book.

Years after I found out "the truth" about Rampa a few people exploring in Australia found smaller versions of the sort of valleys he describes in the mountains along the east coast. Literal hidden valleys, tens of metres wide (not hundreds) with sunlight thru a tiny opening in between two ridge lines. Its amazing stuff. Australian Geographic or some similar magazine had various photo essays on the sites years ago.
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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby Harvey » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:50 pm

Good to know that such a thing can actually exist! I have to admit, his story really captured my imagination.

The guy who wrote it, when he got busted, turned around and said "yeah but Rampa escaped his body and shares mine as a home for his soul."


How could anyone not like him!
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:00 pm

Razib Khan has been doing excellent synthesis work on explaining how much the big picture has changed:
https://razib.substack.com/p/here-be-humans
Recommend clicking through to his site for images and a linked list of references at the end, but it may be paywalled later on. He has done a lot of superb essays in recent months, likely thanks to substack income as well as the plethora of new discoveries to work with.

Here be humans
We keep discovering how much less of humanity is… us


We're not the man we used to be. Over the last twenty years, genomics, ancient DNA and paleoanthropology have joined forces to completely overhaul our understanding of the origin of our species. The true diversity and complexity of human evolution over the last few hundred millennia surpasses even the most unhinged imaginings we might have hazarded just a short generation ago. But greater clarity has left us with a messier and less elegant narrative. Our species’ status, it turns out, is “complicated.”

In the year 2000, the orthodoxy was that humans spread across the world 60,000 years ago, and were descended exclusively from a small population in Africa. Neanderthals and various other human groups (and yes, we didn’t even deign to give them all names) were evolutionary “dead ends.” Of interest mostly to scholars, they were dismissed as failed experiments in a world our ancestors won. Today, this tidy story of us no longer passes a basic fact check.

In 2010, genomes recovered from ancient remains of “archaic hominins” in Eurasia turned out to have genetic matches in many modern humans. It seems they weren’t quite as “archaic” as we thought. In addition, we had to get used to the new reality that a solid 2-3% of the ancestry of all humans outside Africa is Neanderthal. About 5% of the ancestry of Melanesian groups, like the Papuans of New Guinea, actually comes from a previously unimagined new human lineage discovered in Denisova cave, in Siberia of all places.

Since these first major overhauls, the genetic picture has only grown more complex. Trace, but detectable (0.2% or so), levels of “Denisovan” ancestry are found across South, Southeast, and East Asia (as well as among indigenous people of the Americas). Similarly, trace but detectable levels of Neanderthal ancestry actually appear in most African populations. And, though we have no ancient genomes to make the triumphant ID, a great deal of circumstantial DNA evidence indicates that many African groups harbor silent “archaic” lineages equivalent to Neanderthals and Denisovans. We call them “ghost” populations. We know they’re there in the genomes, but we have no fossils to identify them with.

Even the canonical “Out of Africa“ migration itself has turned out to be less neat and tidy than we thought. Outside Africa, whether you are an indigenous Australian, Amazonian native or a German burgher, fully 90-99% of your ancestry derives from a single ancestral human population pulse 60,000 years ago. Somehow, an isolated African tribe of 1,000 to 10,000 people, who became genetically homogenous due to their initial small population size, swept across Eurasia. By 50,000 years ago, they reached Australia. They had replaced the last Neanderthals and Denisovans by 40,000 years ago, if not earlier. They even migrated to North and South America 15,000 years ago.

But inside of Africa, the story is much richer and still not fully grasped. Many African populations started separating from each other 200,000 years ago, becoming distinct lineages such as Khoisan and West Africans. The emergence of modern humans within the continent was not an explosion, but a gradual evolution of interacting lineages. A slow burn. The ancestors of modern non-Africans were part of this dance, but were isolated at some point for tens of thousands of years, passing through the “great bottleneck.” Where? When? Who knows? We can’t be sure at this point. Best to just come out and admit it: this chapter of the story is still provisional.

It’s raining men

And now, one after another, new dramatis personae, mostly ghosts, keep entering stage left, complicating what once seemed our simple soliloquy. In The New York Times, Carl Zimmer reports on a very well-preserved fossil, Discovery of ‘Dragon Man’ Skull in China May Add Species to Human Family Tree. Meanwhile, an Israeli group has a paper out in Science on a human population discovered there which seems to resemble Neanderthals and dates to 120,000 to 140,000 years ago. “Dragon Man” is at least 140,000 years old, and it is a very well preserved skull which exhibits a mixture of “primitive” and “modern” features.

Because these are brand new finds, there is not yet consensus about these fossils. Some researchers want to call “Dragon Man” Homo longi (龙, pronounced lóng, being Chinese for dragon), a new human species, and assert its features mean it is more closely related to modern humans than Neanderthals. Though Chris Stringer dismisses any bias in the Chinese researchers, I can't help but discern a drive here to establish precedence for China as one of the major hearths of modern humans, perhaps a matter of external pressure from the Xi regime.*

Paleoanthropologists outside of China seem more inclined to believe that “Dragon Man” is actually the paradigm-busting species we have only known definitively from genomics: Denisovans. This faction points out that “Dragon Man” had massive teeth, just like a confirmed Denisovan jaw discovered in Tibet in 2019 (ancient-protein analysis indicated it was Denisovan). So why do others disagree? Because the skull is so intact they performed an evolutionary analysis of its relationships, using a full suite of characteristics (unfortunately the find did not yield DNA). On that inferred family tree, Homo longi lies closer to modern humans. In contrast, we know from genomics that Denisovans are more closely related to Neanderthals than they are to modern humans.

My bet is that Homo longi and Denisovans are one and the same. Or, more precisely, Homo longi is one of the many Denisovan lineages. Obviously, the researchers who did the phylogenetic analysis know what they’re saying when they assert that this species mixes modern and archaic features, but physical characteristics are less informative of a lineage’s relationships than DNA is. There are several reasons for this. First, tens of millions of variable markers in human genomes can be used as comparison points for relationships. Physical characteristics are usually limited to hundreds of measurable phenotypic traits (how many ways can you define skull shape or the size of teeth?). Second, unlike assessed physical characteristics, DNA has zero subjective bias. A genomic position is A, C, G or T. How many physical characteristics are you going to define? How are you going to slice and dice skull shape? Modern imaging means that these are objective measures, but humans still decide what to measure.

Finally, and more importantly, physical characteristics are subject to natural selection. Two populations which look similar can be quite genetically different because adaptation drives convergence, from different starting points, towards similar optimized external characteristics. More concretely in this case, I believe that Neanderthals adapted very well to the cold climate of North Eurasia, and evolved away from many ancestral human characteristics that we now code as “modern.” Yes, I’m saying modern humans are quite possibly more “primitive” than our long-lost cousins. This Denisovan population and modern humans probably resemble a general ancestral variety, while the Neanderthals were hyper-specialized in their adaptations, an exemplar of evolution in overdrive.

What about the find in Israel? The discoverers of the Nesha Ramla Homo also want to call it a new species, albeit one close to Neanderthals. But the fact of whether it is a new species or not is mostly academic to me. What I find much more exciting is the fact that these people seem to be quite different from modern humans, but simultaneously have tool technology that was undeniably quite advanced. From the remains at their sites, Nesha Ramla Homo was a hunter of large and small game and maintained fires fueled by wood. There were clearly cultural interactions between these humans and Africans to the south, and Neanderthals to the north.

The “Out of Africa“ narrative of circa 2000 presented our own lineage as a superhuman race, the apotheosis of human evolution. The telos of two million years of encephalization, as human brains got bigger and bigger. The latest results do not fit easily into our old hero narrative. Neanderthals win the contest for largest human brains. And “Dragon Man” turns out to have had a very large brain too, in line with modern cranial capacities. All human lineages were getting bigger-brained over the last few million years, not just the lineage that led up to us.

The Denisovans were many

Finally, we need to acknowledge that our long-standing and intimate interest in Neanderthals may have misled us when it came to Denisovans. Neanderthals were discovered in Europe, the continent with the longest and most well-funded tradition in archaeology. But it turns out they may not be typical “archaic” humans. The best genetic work indicates that Denisovans were not one homogeneous lineage, as seems to have been the case with Neanderthals, but a diverse group that were strikingly differentiated.

The Denisovan ancestry in modern populations varies considerably in relatedness to the genome sequences from Denisova cave. It is clear that the Denisovan ancestry in Papuans is very different from the Siberian Denisovan sequences. The most geographically distant Denisovan groups, those in Siberia and those from on the far edge of Southeast Asia into Wallacea, were likely far more genetically different from each other than Khoisan are from the rest of humanity. Depending on the assumptions you set your “molecular clock” with, the most distant Denisovan lineages probably separated into distinct populations from each other 200,000 to 400,000 years before their extinction.

Instead of thinking of three major human species 60,000 years ago, perhaps we need to think of two families of related but heterogeneous populations (“modern humans” and Denisovan humans) and one homogeneous one (Neanderthals). Denisovan humans were clearly more closely related to Neanderthals than they were to modern humans. Their common ancestors left Africa 600,000 to 750,000 years ago, and they separated into western (Neanderthal) and eastern (Denisovan) branches. But the evolutionary history of Denisovans may share more commonalities with our African ancestors than with their Neanderthal cousins, who occupied a much more constrained and forbidding ecology across the northwestern ecozone of the continent. While the Pleistocene was cold and brutal across the world, East Asia afforded more opportunities for Denisovans to retreat southward into refuges than West Eurasia did for Neanderthals, which was separated from African escapes by the Mediterranean and harsh deserts. Neanderthals approached extinction several times for this reason, while Denisovans maintained many different and diverse lineages down to the last 100,000 years.

But wait, there are more!

Neanderthals, Denisovans, and modern humans are just the main actors in the plotline of our species’ recent origins. Today on our planet there is just one human species, but this is an exceptional moment. For most of the past few million years there were many human species. Up until 50,000 years ago in the Southeast Asian islands of Flores and Luzon, we see strong evidence of very specialized species of small humans, the pygmy Hobbits and Homo luzonensis. They are different not only from each other, but from modern humans, Denisovans and Neanderthals. In Africa, there were almost certainly very different human populations which over time were absorbed, just as the Denisovans and Neanderthals were. Homo naledi in South Africa almost certainly persisted down to the period of the rise of modern humans on the continent, 200,000 years ago.

Finally, a great deal of circumstantial archaeological and genetic evidence is accumulating that some earlier African lineages related to modern humans expanded out into eastern Eurasia before our own expansion. Artifacts in China and Sumatra dating to before 60,000 years ago seem suspiciously modern, and genetic analysis of Siberian Neanderthals dating to 120,000 years ago suggests admixture from populations related to modern humans. It is still possible that Homo longi descends from one of these early populations. Only DNA can establish this for a fact, but most older fossil remains do not yield genetic material, and this skull is old enough that only perfect conditions would have yielded DNA.
The branches we pruned

Genetically, we’re a relatively homogeneous mammalian species, which underwent a rapid expansion from a small ancestral population. This is particularly true outside of Africa. All non-Africans share ancestry that dates back to a single tiny human population of 1,000 to 10,000 people which flourished 60,000 years ago, and exploded across Eurasia and Australia in a single sweep. Within Africa, there is more complex structure and diversity than on the rest of the planet combined, but even there, many of the deep differences are attributable to the great distinctness of the remnant hunter-gatherer populations: the Khoisan Bushmen, Hadza, and Pygmies of the rainforest. African agriculturalists have undergone rapid expansions from small founding groups, though the bottlenecks there were much less constrictive than for non-Africans.

Our planet was very different 100,000 years ago, and if we could survey that time, we would be astounded by the human diversity across its surface. To enumerate what little we know with certainty, there were at a minimum: modern humans, Neanderthals, at least three to four varieties of Denisovans, and two pygmy Homo populations in Southeast Asia. Likely there were still remnant Homo erectus in Southeast Asia as well, and other diverged lineages within Africa, and a new Homo in Nesher Ramla, Israel, in the Middle East with affinities to Neanderthals.

The first twenty years of this century have been the most exciting decades of paleoanthropology since the emergence of the field, in large part due to the rise of paleogenetics. I see no reason to assume that wave has crested. I for one, can’t wait to continue constantly updating my priors on humankind as the 2020’s unfold.
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Re: Mystery humans spiced up ancients’ sex lives

Postby Harvey » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:20 pm

^ Very Juicy, thanks.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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