How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:20 pm

.
Dr. Judith Curry.

Someone here dismissed her as 'widely considered to be a crank'.

Given events over the past couple years in particular, a re-thinking of positions/notions by establishment science is overdue.

Especially when raised by legitimate critics, like Curry.

Lots of insightful commentary here.

https://www.city-journal.org/global-warming

Climate Science’s Myth-Buster

It’s time to be scientific about global warming, says climatologist Judith Curry.


We’ve all come across the images of polar bears drifting on ice floes: emblematic victims of the global warming that’s melting the polar ice caps, symbols of the threat to the earth posed by our ceaseless energy production—above all, the carbon dioxide that factories and automobiles emit. We hear louder and louder demands to impose limits, to change our wasteful ways, so as to save not only the bears but also the planet and ourselves.

In political discourse and in the media, major storms and floods typically get presented as signs of impending doom, accompanied by invocations to the environment and calls to respect Mother Nature. Only catastrophes seem to grab our attention, though, and it’s rarely mentioned that warming would also bring some benefits, such as expanded production of grains in previously frozen regions of Canada and Russia. Nor do we hear that people die more often of cold weather than of hot weather. Isolated voices criticize the alarm over global warming, considering it a pseudoscientific thesis, the true aim of which is to thwart economic modernization and free-market growth and to extend the power of states over individual choices.

Not being a climatologist myself, I’ve always had trouble deciding between these arguments. And then I met Judith Curry at her home in Reno, Nevada. Curry is a true climatologist. She once headed the department of earth and atmospheric sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology, until she gave up on the academy so that she could express herself independently. “Independence of mind and climatology have become incompatible,” she says. Do you mean that global warming isn’t real? I ask. “There is warming, but we don’t really understand its causes,” she says. “The human factor and carbon dioxide, in particular, contribute to warming, but how much is the subject of intense scientific debate.”

Curry is a scholar, not a pundit. Unlike many political and journalistic oracles, she never opines without proof. And she has data at her command. She tells me, for example, that between 1910 and 1940, the planet warmed during a climatic episode that resembles our own, down to the degree. The warming can’t be blamed on industry, she argues, because back then, most of the carbon-dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels were small. In fact, Curry says, “almost half of the warming observed in the twentieth century came about in the first half of the century, before carbon-dioxide emissions became large.” Natural factors thus had to be the cause. None of the climate models used by scientists now working for the United Nations can explain this older trend. Nor can these models explain why the climate suddenly cooled between 1950 and 1970, giving rise to widespread warnings about the onset of a new ice age. I recall magazine covers of the late 1960s or early 1970s depicting the planet in the grip of an annihilating deep freeze. According to a group of scientists, we faced an apocalyptic environmental scenario—but the opposite of the current one.

But aren’t oceans rising today, I counter, eroding shorelines and threatening to flood lower-lying population centers and entire inhabited islands? “Yes,” Curry replies. “Sea level is rising, but this has been gradually happening since the 1860s; we don’t yet observe any significant acceleration of this process in our time.” Here again, one must consider the possibility that the causes for rising sea levels are partly or mostly natural, which isn’t surprising, says Curry, for “climate change is a complex and poorly understood phenomenon, with so many processes involved.” To blame human-emitted carbon dioxide entirely may not be scientific, she continues, but “some find it reassuring to believe that we have mastered the subject.” She says that “nothing upsets many scientists like uncertainty.”

This brings us to why Curry left the world of the academy and government-funded research. “Climatology has become a political party with totalitarian tendencies,” she charges. “If you don’t support the UN consensus on human-caused global warming, if you express the slightest skepticism, you are a ‘climate-change denier,’ a stooge of Donald Trump, a quasi-fascist who must be banned from the scientific community.” These days, the climatology mainstream accepts only data that reinforce its hypothesis that humanity is behind global warming. Those daring to take an interest in possible natural causes of climactic variation—such as solar shifts or the earth’s oscillations—aren’t well regarded in the scientific community, to put it mildly. The rhetoric of the alarmists, it’s worth noting, has increasingly moved from “global warming” to “climate change,” which can mean anything. That shift got its start back in 1992, when the UN widened its range of environmental concern to include every change that human activities might be causing in nature, casting a net so wide that few human actions could escape it.

Scientific research should be based on skepticism, on the constant reconsideration of accepted ideas: at least, this is what I learned from my mentor, the ultimate scientific philosopher of our time, Karl Popper. What could lead climate scientists to betray the very essence of their calling? The answer, Curry contends: “politics, money, and fame.” Scientists are human beings, with human motives; nowadays, public funding, scientific awards, and academic promotions go to the environmentally correct. Among climatologists, Curry explains, “a person must not like capitalism or industrial development too much and should favor world government, rather than nations”; think differently, and you’ll find yourself ostracized. “Climatology is becoming an increasingly dubious science, serving a political project,” she complains. In other words, “the policy cart is leading the scientific horse.”

“Nowadays, public funding, scientific awards, and academic promotions go to the environmentally correct.”



More at link.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:28 am

Random snippet:
Nor can these models explain why the climate suddenly cooled between 1950 and 1970, giving rise to widespread warnings about the onset of a new ice age. I recall magazine covers of the late 1960s or early 1970s depicting the planet in the grip of an annihilating deep freeze. According to a group of scientists, we faced an apocalyptic environmental scenario—but the opposite of the current one.


She's full of shit. Sulfate aerosols. Not a big secret. Post-war industry picks up, releases aerosols, counteracts ongoing warming, looks like cooling (same effect as large volcanic eruptions, and it's also been proposed as a way to counter global warming). Then we started regulating things because of the environment, and voila, warming continues. These things have been accounted for in the models for over twenty years.

And for the nth time: no, there was no agreement that we were heading into an ice age. There were some sensational magazine covers and a few scientific papers, that's it. The vast majority of climate research back then pointed to warming.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:00 pm

.

"full of shit" -- quite the nuanced, learned take there. Unsurprisingly, I'm not swayed.

On the other hand, "Climate change" as a brand and business model is full of shit in a number of respects.

Whatever is happening with climate, much of the 'efforts' to address the topic have been co-opted by monied interests. Their objectives are not in alignment with those with earnest intent. This much is patently clear.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:34 pm

Full of shit, followed by an explanation for why she's full of shit. No wonder you're not swayed when you ignore everything but the irrelevant part.

She's supposed to be a climate scientist, and she's repeating talking points that were never true and debunked years ago, and doesn't know elementary things that have been explained and accounted for in the models for over twenty years. That's why she's full of shit.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:50 pm

DrEvil » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:28 am wrote:And for the nth time: no, there was no agreement that we were heading into an ice age. There were some sensational magazine covers and a few scientific papers, that's it. The vast majority of climate research back then pointed to warming.


Absolutely.

Also, back then, the main political focus was correctly on pollution (that's what we used to call it) and habitat destruction being bad in themselves, leading to unpredictable destabilization of the biosphere, and, through resource depletion, of the political economy and basis for human civilization/population. Honestly, I think reducing all that complexity to the simpler version of 'warming' has been a wrong turn, and kind of a popular pacifier allowing states and corporations to pretend the problem is somehow global and distant from politics but there are simple top-down fixes. So they can keep rolling out Paris and carbon pricing or some other (profitable or potentially profitable) non-fix (magic tech, carbon capture, etc.) as if these have the potential to 'solve' "warming' and make permanent 'growth' along capitalist lines sustainable.

The question anyway is not warming vs. ice age, it's how long this russian roulette with overconsumption of hydrocarbons and attendant emissions, despoliation of land, sea, and everything else, combined with an ongoing rapid species extinction event, can go before the route to a planet essentially dead for the current civilization and for most of us becomes inevitable (warm or cold won't matter). We may, of course, have already reached that point of no return.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:13 pm

We may, of course, have already reached that point of no return.


That's the kicker. We may already have set in motion natural feedback loops that will just continue going no matter what we do. We might just have tipped things over into a new equilibrium that won't be very human-friendly, it just hasn't quite caught up to us yet because what nature considers abrupt we humans consider half a lifetime.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:41 pm

.

Classic example of misdirection, or, how the dominant narratives condition many to focus on certain things while ignoring other critical near-term things:

@llsamueljames

Biggest environmental disaster happening going on 60 years

>90% of “climate/environment awareness” you read is a misdirection

The Amazon is not on fire. Polar bears are not drowning. Miami is not going to fall into the ocean.

Every creature on earth is swallowing plastic

@mell0wbr1ckroad
· Dec 15
A baby sea turtle that washed up dead on a beach in Florida, next to the 104 pieces of plastic found in its intestines.

Image


Replying to
@llsamueljames
and
@NgoloTesla

Yes. We banned plastic straws and cheap carrier bags so people could wear plastic masks, take these single use lateral flow “tests” which aren’t even accurate. Makes me angry

@Zereleth
·
It's pretty unregulated in emerging economies, places like China, India and the Philippines notoriously dump industrial quantities directly into the oceans and there's no punishment. Particularly difficult situation in China that protects polluters.

@euronewsgreen
Babies have 15 times more microplastics in their bodies than adults, a new pilot study has found.

Read more
https://www.euronews.com/green/2021/10/ ... arch-shows


@llsamueljames
·
this made the news cycle (on this corner of twitter) when it was published last year
Plasticenta: First evidence of microplastics in human placenta

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33395930/


https://twitter.com/llsamueljames/statu ... 40677?s=20
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:12 pm

You may see me as being dense here, but I really don't understand what you mean, BS:
Classic example of misdirection, or, how the dominant narratives condition many to focus on certain things while ignoring other critical near-term things:


Please point out for me what the "classic example of misdirection" is that you've referred to, and which are "the dominant narratives" that you feel "condition many to focus on certain things, (what "things?") while ignoring other critical near-term things." Critical near-term things," eh? Considering they are "critical" and "near-term" "things" that most are ignoring, please identify what is "critical;" what timeframe is "near-term"; what are the "things" being ignored by many?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:47 pm

Iamwhomiam » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:12 pm wrote:You may see me as being dense here, but I really don't understand what you mean, BS:
Classic example of misdirection, or, how the dominant narratives condition many to focus on certain things while ignoring other critical near-term things:

Please point out for me what the "classic example of misdirection" is

Here:
Iamwhomiam » Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:08 pm wrote:Too bad some kids around the world need to wear masks in order to feel safe from the harms of adult human actions.
Keeping perspective. (a long read...)
[....]
https://lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n23/david-wallace-wells/ten-million-a-year

viewtopic.php?p=699743#p699743

(^^ "a long read dot dot dot smirk")

You are transparently dishonest.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:27 pm

Belligerent Savant » Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:41 pm wrote:.

Classic example of misdirection, or, how the dominant narratives condition many to focus on certain things while ignoring other critical near-term things:

@llsamueljames

Biggest environmental disaster happening going on 60 years

>90% of “climate/environment awareness” you read is a misdirection

The Amazon is not on fire. Polar bears are not drowning. Miami is not going to fall into the ocean.

Every creature on earth is swallowing plastic

@mell0wbr1ckroad
· Dec 15
A baby sea turtle that washed up dead on a beach in Florida, next to the 104 pieces of plastic found in its intestines.

Image


Replying to
@llsamueljames
and
@NgoloTesla

Yes. We banned plastic straws and cheap carrier bags so people could wear plastic masks, take these single use lateral flow “tests” which aren’t even accurate. Makes me angry

@Zereleth
·
It's pretty unregulated in emerging economies, places like China, India and the Philippines notoriously dump industrial quantities directly into the oceans and there's no punishment. Particularly difficult situation in China that protects polluters.

@euronewsgreen
Babies have 15 times more microplastics in their bodies than adults, a new pilot study has found.

Read more
https://www.euronews.com/green/2021/10/ ... arch-shows


@llsamueljames
·
this made the news cycle (on this corner of twitter) when it was published last year
Plasticenta: First evidence of microplastics in human placenta

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33395930/


https://twitter.com/llsamueljames/statu ... 40677?s=20


Everyone knows bad things have to have exactly equal amounts of coverage all the time or it's a conspiracy. No other explanation is possible.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:06 pm

.
Strawman/putting words in my mouth.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:59 pm

So what did you really mean by "classic example of misdirection"?

It sounded a lot like you were saying that since the coverage of the two topics is unbalanced it's for a reason, specifically to distract from some important information, or in other words: someone is conspiring against us.

My usual question applies: who and why?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:44 pm

DrEvil » 20 Dec 2021 08:59 wrote:So what did you really mean by "classic example of misdirection"?

It sounded a lot like you were saying that since the coverage of the two topics is unbalanced it's for a reason, specifically to distract from some important information, or in other words: someone is conspiring against us.

My usual question applies: who and why?


There has been a massive, relatively open "conspiracy" to deny the reality of Anthropogenic Global Warming, and prevent effective action to mitigate it since last century, mostly funded by fossil fuel interests. There has been no effective action taken on mitigating global warming and the few times people anywhere have tried to factor in the cost of using fossil fuels has resulted in massive establishment pushback.

Even the latest talkfest - copout 26 or whatever it was called is just full of shit.

Even given all the stuff on this website about the manipulation of peoples minds people still post stuff questioning AGW.

I'm not even denying that plasticisation of the world is a huge problem in itself (again caused by fossil fuels but lets leave that alone for now,) - its fucked. But the fact that people on this website are posting these things in opposition to each other shows just how deeply they've fallen for this divide and conquer scam.

And I'll bet they think people in power are actually taking meaningful action on climate change.

Useful idiots everywhere hey.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:17 pm

.

In brief, I -- and for the most part, many others posting in this thread -- are not posting content "in opposition" to AGW. Speaking only for myself, my position is that AGW is very likely not the sole factor in current climate-related circumstances, and broadly, that there is heavily-funded and monied interests in play promoting AGW for ends that ultimately are counter to human benefit (but certainly profitable for the very few). This is not to say such monied interests render all AGW positions invalid, but there is undoubtedly a tainting and manipulation of earnest pursuits by those with ulterior motives (a theme that repeats itself in just about all other ventures -- across 'industry verticals' -- that offer opportunity to accumulate large sums of money/power/influence).

To frame it as "opposition" and "divisive" is a misrepresentation/misframing.


A number of you need to eventually own up to the extent you've been played, at least in part, by some of these interests.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:33 pm

Belligerent Savant » 21 Dec 2021 03:17 wrote:.

In brief, I -- and for the most part, many others posting in this thread -- are not posting content "in opposition" to AGW. Speaking only for myself, my position is that AGW is very likely not the sole factor in current climate-related circumstances, and broadly, that there is heavily-funded and monied interests in play promoting AGW for ends that ultimately are counter to human benefit (but certainly profitable for the very few).


Name them and show how the profit more than fossil fuel companies from inaction on limiting the use of fossil fuels.


This is not to say such monied interests render all AGW positions invalid, but there is undoubtedly a tainting and manipulation of earnest pursuits by those with ulterior motives (a theme that repeats itself in just about all other ventures -- across 'industry verticals' -- that offer opportunity to accumulate large sums of money/power/influence).

To frame it as "opposition" and "divisive" is a misrepresentation/misframing.


A number of you need to eventually own up to the extent you've been played, at least in part, by some of these interests.


We've all been played by a quarter of a century of propaganda designed to prevent any meaningful action on climate change that will cost particular big businesses their profits.

See the bolded? Name them and show they've made more money out of this than the people who obviously benefit from it. (IE fossil fuel owners.)
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