"Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?)

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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:24 pm

Harvey » 07 Dec 2021 03:47 wrote:
DrEvil » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:06 pm wrote:Yeah, well, you can prove anything with facts and logic. :hrumph


As though you understand the process of deliberately killing cells to prove the existence of a pathogen (Look, the cells died! There must be a virus!) any better than Joe apparently does. Good faith indeed.


Look I obviously know more about it than you lot.

You are giving credence to flat out garbage.

I hate to bring up a decade old dumb fuck meme but this place is called Rigorous Intuition.

There is no rigor here.
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:34 pm

maple syrup » 08 Dec 2021 06:34 wrote:At least I chuckled. However the reply is not analogous. You can not use logic and go from, "[a] gerbil is made of atoms," to, "[s]ome gerbils are in effect dead. Nor can you claim to be factual.

If viruses are not the cause of that which has been attributed to viruses, what does?

Should we also be in doubt of bacteria?


There is a major difference between a gerbil and lead that is also there when comparing a virus to glyphosate.

One of the things is a (reasonably) stable chemical compound, the other is process regulated by some form of genetic coding.

But of course they should behave exactly the same way when you try and "isolate" them.
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:11 pm

MacCruiskeen » 01 Dec 2021 01:48 wrote:
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

― from Max Planck's Scientific Autobiography, quoted in Thomas S. Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, 1962 (fourth revised edition 2012)


Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.

-- Richard Feynman (from "What is science?", a speech given to the National Science Teachers Association in 1966, shortly after he had received the Nobel Prize in Physics.)


two of my favorite quotes
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby maple syrup » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:32 pm

Good thing I am just a 3d printer away from having my own personal euthanisation pod. I will be first in line to make way for the flat earth as soon as it arrives...
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:03 pm

maple syrup wrote: flat earth

maple syrup Posts: 4, Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:02 am

77th Brigade is really struggling to find competent recruits.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:06 pm

stickdog99 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:11 pm wrote:...
two of my favorite quotes


They're good ones. I wish some journo at a press conference would quote Feynman's line to Fauci and ask him for his response.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby maple syrup » Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:16 am

"77th Brigade is really struggling to find competent recruits."

My what a warm fuzzy human you are. Can I curl up in your lap and have a nap? PS. Why so threatened?
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby maple syrup » Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:21 am

PS, your anglocentric view is clouding your vitriol. If you want to be accurate, I work for the forces of evil on the west side of the pond....
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:16 am

From Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, 1962:

IX. The Nature and Necessity of Scientific Revolutions

These remarks permit us at last to consider the problems that provide this essay with its title. What are scientific revolutions, and what is their function in scientific development? Much of the answer to these questions has been anticipated in earlier sections. In particular, the preceding discussion has indicated that scientific revolutions are here taken to be those non-cumulative developmental episodes in which an older paradigm is replaced in whole or in part by an incompatible new one. There is more to be said, however, and an essential part of it can be introduced by asking one further question. Why should a change of paradigm be called a revolution? In the face of the vast and essential differences between political and scientific development, what parallelism can justify the metaphor that finds revolutions in both?

One aspect of the parallelism must already be apparent. Political revolutions are inaugurated by a growing sense, often restricted to a segment of the political community, that existing institutions have ceased adequately to meet the problems posed by an environment that they have in part created. In much the same way, scientific revolutions are inaugurated by a growing sense, again often restricted to a narrow subdivision of the scientific community, that an existing paradigm has ceased to function adequately in the exploration of an aspect of nature to which that paradigm itself had previously led the way. In both political and scientific development the sense of malfunction that can lead to crisis is prerequisite to revolution. [...]

https://www.marxists.org/reference/subj ... s/kuhn.htm

________________

Dr Stefan Lanka: "The Virus Misconception, Part 1: Measles As An Example", Jan 2020; PDF, 14pp, English:

https://wissenschafftplus.de/uploads/ar ... part-1.pdf.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby Harvey » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:32 pm

Joe Hillshoist » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:24 am wrote:Look I obviously know more about it than you lot.


Obviously.

You are giving credence to flat out garbage.


It's usually recognised as curiosity.

I hate to bring up a decade old dumb fuck meme but this place is called Rigorous Intuition.


How rigorous or intuitive have you been lately? You seem resentful that the system has made you look like an arse by failing to examine it's pronouncements as rigorously as you might. That's your fault for relaxing on the fence while others are standing up for your freedom to be be bored. Science, if you love it, is all the poorer because you signally failed to call out the bullshit sooner. That's as much on you as anyone.

There is no rigor here.


Well, Mr Rigor, you appear to be here. What are you going to do about it?
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This he said to me
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You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:58 am

Harvey » 10 Dec 2021 03:32 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:24 am wrote:Look I obviously know more about it than you lot.


Obviously.

You are giving credence to flat out garbage.


It's usually recognised as curiosity.


Okay fair enough.

Maybe the idea has never occured to you before but I know people who have been pushing this stuff for decades. It is true that toxins can cause cell damage. It is true that failing to clean toxins from your body can make you very sick as well. But that doesn't replace viruses or bacteria. That on its own doesn't make them go away.

I hate to bring up a decade old dumb fuck meme but this place is called Rigorous Intuition.


How rigorous or intuitive have you been lately? You seem resentful that the system has made you look like an arse by failing to examine it's pronouncements as rigorously as you might. That's your fault for relaxing on the fence while others are standing up for your freedom to be be bored. Science, if you love it, is all the poorer because you signally failed to call out the bullshit sooner. That's as much on you as anyone.


What are you talking about?

What do you actually think i've been saying in this thread or the covid thread? Most of the time its pointing flaws in your (pl) arguments or logic. You won't find me advocating for mRNA vaccines for under thirties. i dunno if I'd advocate for them at all. i'm quite dubious about the fact that Pfizer is able to distribute its shonky proiduct and use bad science to advocate for boosters while traditonal vaccines supported by COVAX and made in Australia can't even get the funding to undergo a TGA trial. (Its used in Iran and they love it.) I mentioned this once and no said anything.

The Pfizer vaccine seems no healthier than the astra zeneca one but in Australia there was alot of dodgy politics about who was eligible for what vaccine. In fact all of the decisions made by regulators seem to be opening up the market to two vaccines - the ones made by Moderna and Pfizer, to the point where we stopped making the AZ vaccine in Australia. That's regulatory capture and its why capitalism and public health don't mix. Again you lot didn't even notice. Its a fucken echo chamber in here these days.

Lockdowns obviously stop the spread of the virus. That's why Melbourne is the most locked down city and has such a comparatively low rate of illness and death compared to everywhere else outside Australia and NZ. You can argue all you want but how else do you explain those numbers? Some people might say the price wasn't worth it. That's a different argument.

There is no rigor here.


Well, Mr Rigor, you appear to be here. What are you going to do about it?


Not much I can do about it since I'm not the one lacking it.

But if you want to learn how to do it the think about everything that is wrong with what you are reading or thinking before you do anything else. Argue with your own assumptions more than anything else.

How do you falsify the idea that germ theory is wrong and what those clowns are saying is right?

Once you tell me that show me all the time s the idea has been tested against that falsification process and stood up. Then it has some resilience and robustness and is worth considering. Till then it isn't science.
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby DrEvil » Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:19 pm

MacCruiskeen » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:08 am wrote:The argument in a nutshell: The objects known as "viruses" and detected by means of electron microscopy are in fact debris from dead or dying cells -- not attackers from outside, but by-products of the body's own cleaning-up process. Or else they are endogenous exosomes, which actually do the cleaning-up, and thus play an important role in maintaining and restoring the body's health.

You will usually find firefighters (and debris) at the scene of a fire. This does not prove that the firefighters (or the debris) caused the fire. Nor does it make it likely that they did. Correlation does not imply causation.

"A Pandemic of Not Thinking": Dr Tom Cowan interviewed by Dr Sam Bailey (49m 27s):

https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/Dr-To ... Thinking:d

Cowan & Morell: The Contagion Myth: Why Viruses (including "Coronavirus") Are Not The Cause Of Disease.:

Image

I think it's essential reading right now. Someone has put up a free pdf, but do pay the authors if you can. The book is banned from Amazon.


I haven't read the whole thing, but I skimmed through to get a sense of what they were arguing, and one part in particular jumped out at me in the chapter on pandemics:

The current explanation for the correlation of comets and disease is that
of “panspermia.” We now know that outer space is populated by clouds of
microorganisms, and the theory holds that comets are watery bodies—dirty
snowballs—that rain new microscopic forms on the earth, to which humans
and animals have no immunity.7
However, recent evidence indicates little if any water on comets. Rather,
they are asteroids that have an elliptical orbit and become charged
electrically as they approach the sun, an exchange that creates the comet’s
bright coma and tail. Their surfaces exhibit the kind of features that happen
with intense electrical arcing, like craters and cliffs; bright or shiny spots on
otherwise barren rocky surfaces indicate areas that are electrically charged.


"We now know that outer space is populated by clouds of microorganisms" is just flat out wrong. We don't. We've found some of the building blocks of life, emphasis on "some" and "building blocks". No microorganisms whatsoever have been found beyond what we brought to space ourselves. Panspermia is one of many hypotheses, and it has no supporting evidence beyond those few bulding blocks we detected. It could be true, or it could not be true. We simply don't know.

Then "However, recent evidence indicates little if any water on comets", which is also wrong. They then go off on Electric Universe theory, which I guess is what they think of as their evidence, because it requires entirely different mechanisms than out-gassing of vapors to explain what we observe with comets approaching the sun. So not only is the entire field of virology wrong, so is the entire field of cosmology.

If they can get something as simple as the existence of microorganisms in space wrong (we found aliens and no one noticed?), what else did they get wrong?
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:21 am

Cowan, one of the three featured in the Deans Danes video ( https://odysee.com/@DeansDanes:1/Freedom-Talk-5:b ) lost his license to practice medicine. He now refers to himself as an "unlicensed health coach."

Lanka's been around for ages, and has always been considered as extremely eccentric with absurd theories, like, viruses do not exist; AIDS is an "imagined" or a psychosomatically induced illness, purely psychological. Covid, too. (I wonder how he explains the covid-19 now found in herds of NY white tailed deer populations across the state? Who knew deer had such lively imaginations!)

The Psychiatrist Who Calmly Denies Reality, Dr. Andrew Kaufman, a small western NY town shrink:

"Dr. Andrew Kaufman made the rounds in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic by claiming the virus did not exist. Now, he leads anti-maskers in public demonstrations and tells hundreds of thousands of YouTube users that everything they know about medicine is wrong"

I have a lot more on Lanka I could share, but just haven't had the energy lately. conniption deserves a response to his commentary and mine in the Limits of science thread, so I will respond, eventually. On an Ontological level, I quite agree with Lanka, we can psychologically make ourselves physically ill. Back here in meatspace, however, where we contemplate and discuss time being both eternal and also its non-existence; that everything that will happen has already happened, people age and die. We bleed and suffer. We feel pain, psychologically and physically. It's difficult to be in both worlds at the same time.

If you disagree with me and believe Lanka's got it all figured out, don't waste your time responding. Like covid-19, I'm only a figment of your imagination soon to evaporate from your nightmare.
Last edited by Iamwhomiam on Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:24 am

^^ Let that conglomerate marinate. Let it ferment. Follow the scientific method and examine it closely at regular intervals. Seriously. It's instructive. What's really going on there?

We can all learn from science. (But not only from science.) And we have all the time in the world, experts say.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: "Viruses": Tiny Invisible Airborne Killer-Dots. (Really?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:07 pm

Good questions to ask, Mac. So good in fact, I think I'll ask them, too.

Regarding Mac's commentary on my posting, I suggest to all readers to allow his conglomerate to marinate. Let it ferment. Follow the scientific method and examine it closely at regular intervals. Seriously. It's instructive. What's really going on there?

Mac, why don't you tell us what is going on there in my earlier conglomeration? In which way do you find it instructive? Surely, after your close, periodic examination of my words, you must have more to say. Don't be shy.

To me, your reply was instructive. You, with your caustic wit remain unchanged. After all is said and done, you're as pitiful as ever, and that is saddening. What's going on there is a failed effort to insult, nothing more, and adds nothing of value to argue. Pitiful.

Long Live Dr. Tom!
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