One atomic particle of total species-wide insanity

[thegovernmentflu]

Some medical experts say the combination of a powerful stimulant drug such as ecstasy, combined with pre-existing mental health conditions, could trigger a violent episode.

This illustrates my earlier point perfectly. If you replace the word "ecstasy" with "Paxil", you have a sentence that would NEVER get printed in a mainstream news article.

[Brighid_Moon]

The plot thickens!

Some medical experts say the combination of a powerful stimulant drug such as ecstasy, combined with pre-existing mental health conditions, could trigger a violent episode.

Could well be, but something had to still set it off in his head, if that were the case, imho. Hallucinogenic stimulant + hallucinogenic mental illness = can't be good.

Retracted:

After Googling both Ecstasy + Mental Illness and Ecstasy + Schizophrenia, I'm calling BS on their experts. Keyword: "could".

One example:

I am presenting this anecdotal evidence to support the idea that MDMA may help some people with schizophrenia deal with the issues that arise when confronting this disease. It is possible that the effects of MDMA can temporarily reduce some of the acute symptoms of this illness or help equip people with schizophrenia with the power to fight their illness over the long term. It is clear that good clinical research is necessary to explore the effects of a single oral dose MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in these patients. Whether the results of this proposed research are miraculous or lackluster, they nevertheless will shed more light on this disease and it's pharmacological management.

<snip>

Long link.

Also edited for not enough coffee yet.

[Brighid_Moon]

Some medical experts say the combination of a powerful stimulant drug such as ecstasy, combined with pre-existing mental health conditions, could trigger a violent episode.

This illustrates my earlier point perfectly. If you replace the word "ecstasy" with "Paxil", you have a sentence that would NEVER get printed in a mainstream news article.

^^ That too.

[justdrew]

The last thing we need are more IT professionals.
Cabinet-makers, plumbers, butchers, truck drivers, maybe a few more doctors, but we raise all the techies we need from scratch. No offense, eh?

yeah, that's my impression. but hey- I am a Stompin' Tom Connors fan, that should be worth a few points. Anyway, I've since more or less changed my mind; and it would be tough to beat where I'm at. Gotta stay here and fight the bastids, not gonna run for it under ANY circumstances.

So - on the killer: emigrated from china in his late 30s with wife about the same age. Odd they had no children, I don't think that's too common. They may well have left children behind in China.

[thegovernmentflu]

The plot thickens!

Some medical experts say the combination of a powerful stimulant drug such as ecstasy, combined with pre-existing mental health conditions, could trigger a violent episode.

Could well be, but something had to still set it off in his head, if that were the case, imho. Hallucinogenic stimulant + hallucinogenic mental illness = can't be good.

Retracted:

After Googling both Ecstasy + Mental Illness and Ecstasy + Schizophrenia, I'm calling BS on their experts. Keyword: "could".

One example:

I am presenting this anecdotal evidence to support the idea that MDMA may help some people with schizophrenia deal with the issues that arise when confronting this disease. It is possible that the effects of MDMA can temporarily reduce some of the acute symptoms of this illness or help equip people with schizophrenia with the power to fight their illness over the long term. It is clear that good clinical research is necessary to explore the effects of a single oral dose MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in these patients. Whether the results of this proposed research are miraculous or lackluster, they nevertheless will shed more light on this disease and it's pharmacological management.

<snip>

Long link.

Also edited for not enough coffee yet.

It's possible that MDMA could directly set off some kind of bizarre violent episode, but I really doubt that it's ever happened. Considering the fact that MDMA specifically triggers feelings of deep empathy, the problem wouldn't be the effects of the drug as much as it would be changes in the brain resulting from heavy regular use.

That's also the main problem with antidepressants. Anyone with drug experience knows that any stimulant drug that induces euphoria or a general sense of elation should only be used in moderation. SSRIs definitely fall into that category, and those types of drugs tend to lead to severe burnout. Heavy and repeated exposure to them causes the brain's structure to physically change, to the point where certain receptors die off because they're no longer needed. This essentially creates a condition where the person has to keep taking the drug to literally keep their brain functioning. It's ironic that antidepressants create the very hypothetical brain condition that they're supposed to treat.

I'm surprised that this guy had no history of psychiatric drug use. That's so commonplace in these sorts of incidents, it's almost a certainty most of the time.

[Jeff]

Accused chatted with victim's co-worker
Prior to decapitation, Vince Li sat with victim's colleague
Mike McIntyre, Winnipeg Free Press
Published: 4 hours ago

WINNIPEG - The seeds for Tim McLean's brutal murder on board a Greyhound bus last week may have been planted when the man accused of his murder, Vince Li, spent nearly an hour chatting up the victim's co-worker during their ride through western Manitoba, the Winnipeg Free Press has learned.

Li, 40, took a seat at the front of the bus beside a woman named Stacy after getting on board in Brandon. The pair chatted and were even seen smoking together during a rest stop.

As the bus resumed its ill-fated journey towards Winnipeg, Li suddenly moved to the back of the bus and sat beside McLean, who was listening to his headphones and apparently asleep.

Moments later, McLean was being repeatedly stabbed until he was decapitated. Horrified passengers fled the bus but managed to lock the killer inside the bus.

McLean's family and friends don't believe Li's change-of-seating was a coincidence. And they question why he was charged with second-degree murder and not first-degree murder, which indicates planning and premeditation.

"I have this unbelievably strong feeling that him sitting beside Stacy had something to do with this," McLean's former girlfriend, Alexandra Storey, told the Free Press in an exclusive interview Monday.

Tim and Stacy had become friends while working together at various western Canadian fairs through North American Midway Entertainment.

They were travelling together to Winnipeg - although seated separately in different areas of the bus - and had planned to meet up with a mutual friend in the city before all heading to British Columbia.

McLean's loved ones now desperately want to speak with Stacy - her last name is not known to them - to find out more about her dealings with Li on the bus.

They only know that she quickly returned to B.C. after McLean's killing, and presumably after an interview with police.

A call to North American Midway Entertainment seeking information about the woman wasn't returned on Monday.

Storey is also haunted by a series of text messages McLean sent to her as he made his way through Manitoba. Her ex-boyfriend - to whom she remained very close - mentioned that some people were doing ecstasy on the bus.

Some medical experts say the combination of a powerful stimulant drug such as ecstasy, combined with pre-existing mental health conditions, could trigger a violent episode.

Storey isn't buying it.

"Even if he was doing drugs, it wouldn't make him do something like that. There's no excuse," she said.

A Winnipeg family that had extensive dealings with Li during his two years spent living in the city told the Free Press on Saturday they believe he was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. However, he refused to go see a doctor to be diagnosed or prescribed any medication, despite a strong push from the family and members of a local church where he attended and briefly worked as a janitor.

Li's erratic behaviour included making statements about always being watched and taking sudden, unexplained bus trips to various locales including The Pas and Toronto. He eventually left his wife, Anna, in 2006 and moved to Edmonton, where he began delivering newspapers and briefly worked at McDonald's. Anna recently left Winnipeg to join him in Alberta.

Li last delivered newspapers on July 28, according to his boss in Edmonton, Vincent Augert. On Tuesday, he "fell off the face of the earth," Augert said, which was unlike Li. Augert phoned him and a woman who identified herself as Li's wife called back, saying Li's disappearance wasn't planned.

"She said to me, 'I don't know where he is, he had to leave town, it was an emergency,'" Augert said. Li had told Augert three weeks ago that he had plans to go to Winnipeg for a job interview.

It's not officially known yet why Li was on the Greyhound headed for Winnipeg Wednesday. Li has no prior criminal record in Canada, according to RCMP.

Justice sources say his background in China will be examined closely as the case proceeds through the courts.

Storey told the Free Press they are disgusted by media reports that they believe paint the accused Li in a sympathetic light, regardless of any medical issues he may have.

"Everyone is talking about his background, how he went to church, was a good guy . . . He never gave Tim a chance," she said.

"Mental illness or not, you don't do that to another human being."

They also want police to closely examine Li's time in Canada for fear there could be other violent incidents that have yet to be uncovered.

McLean's family is currently in the planning stages for his funeral, which is expected to be a small, private affair despite the worldwide attention and condolences his killing has generated, she said.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/s ... 04b47c588c



Judge orders tests for bus murder suspect
'Kill me now,' accused said in court
Mike McIntyre, Winnipeg Free Press
Published: Tuesday, August 05, 2008

PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE, Man. - Shocking details of the gruesome homicide aboard a Greyhound bus last week emerged in court here this morning, prompting a judge to order a psychiatric assessment of accused killer Vincent Li.

The 40-year-old man, facing second-degree murder charges, refused to speak in court this morning, communicating only through grunts and vigorous 'yes' or 'no' head shakes.

At one point, however, he was overheard to say "Kill me now."

Li, who was making his second court appearance, is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Tim McLean, 22, who was stabbed and then beheaded.

It is alleged Li stabbed McLean repeatedly with a large knife, then cut off the man's head and carried it to the front of the bus.

Other passengers and the bus drivers scrambled from the vehicle and then closed the door.

The victim's severed nose, ear and part of his mouth were found in a plastic bag in Li's pocket after his arrest, court was told.

Court was told this morning that Li's wife claims the man spent four days in a psychiatric ward in Alberta recently. RCMP are trying to confirm the claims.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/new ... 2ef9b1fda5

[Jeff]

Greyhound scraps ads that extolled worry-free bus travel after Manitoba beheading

55 minutes ago

WINNIPEG — Greyhound has scrapped an ad campaign that extolled the peaceful, worry-free upside of bus travel following the beheading of a passenger near Winnipeg.

The punch line of the ad was "There's a reason you've never heard of 'bus rage."' Greyhound spokeswoman Abby Wambaugh says the company feels the ad, launched last year, could be offensive and that it is no longer appropriate.

She says the campaign was officially over before Tim McLean was beheaded last Wednesday, but that some ads are still up.

Wambaugh says Greyhound wants them to be removed as quickly as possible.

Vince Weiguang Li, 40, is charged with second-degree in connection with the attack, which has attracted international attention.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... 5YEODDsSGA

[Wilbur Whatley]

The story about "Stacy" is certainly interesting. If she and the victim were traveling together from city to city, why were they sitting apart at about the farthest possible distance across the bus? That implies, or at least suggests, some kind of estrangement or falling out. Perhaps there was an argument, or even a lover's spat, or an unwanted advance, or a dispute about wages.

In any event, if Li spent an hour talking to Stacy and then went right back and attacked the victim, it seems like a targeted attack, and probably first degree murder.

I hope more comes out about the conversation with Stacy. She must be traumatized beyond belief.

Pieces of the victim in a plastic bag in his pocket? Statements that he must stay on this bus forever? WTF?

[Nordic]

A friend of mine was doing MDMA with a group of people (in Canada, no less, come to think of it) and one of them went completely apeshit nuts. She got violent as hell, and although being a very small Asian woman it took five huge male police officers to subdue her.

Later, she remembered having a good time.

My friend was completely freaked out by this incident. He'd been up there having the time of his life, and suddenly it all went bad. I've known this guy for years and have never seen him so freaked out.

[thegovernmentflu]

A friend of mine was doing MDMA with a group of people (in Canada, no less, come to think of it) and one of them went completely apeshit nuts. She got violent as hell, and although being a very small Asian woman it took five huge male police officers to subdue her.

Later, she remembered having a good time.

My friend was completely freaked out by this incident. He'd been up there having the time of his life, and suddenly it all went bad. I've known this guy for years and have never seen him so freaked out.

Well, another problem is the fact that a lot of "Ecstasy" pills contain little or no actual MDMA, and instead use a combination of dirty stimulants and weird experimental designer drugs to give the users a generic speedy euphoric buzz. Dissociative anaesthetics DXM and PCP have both been widely used as filler in E pills. There's no telling what she actually ingested.

It's funny that most of the risks associated with drug use are actually caused by prohibition, yet these risks are used as justification for the Drug War. It's such convoluted logic. If people die or freak out as the result of taking mystery drugs, we should blame the power structures whose phony Drug War created the conditions under which shitty unregulated black market drugs thrive.

Still, I wouldn't doubt that violent MDMA freakouts can occur, the same as any drug. It just seems a bit unlikely because of the nature of real MDMA's effects.

[annie aronburg]

Playland is in full swing and the PNE is two weeks away. Tim must have been pretty homesick to take leave during high season.

I'm certain to offend someone with this statement, but "carny" isn't usually one of the career options high-school guidance counsellors suggest to bright young people with great prospects.

In a statement made by his family about Tim's last conversations with them, he asked for permission to come home when he called from Brandon. The way this was said implied some kind of domestic tension.

Perhaps Tim and/or Stacy were transporting MDA for resale in Winnipeg and one of them got the party started a little early.

I'm assuming it wasn't the young man who was about to see his family for the first time time in a long while, hence his physical seperation from his travel partner.

Did someone dose Mr. Li?

Is it possible that Mr. Li's fragile mental state was triggered to violence by the energies or actions of trippers around him?

Not all group minds are groovy especially if you're a freaked-out outsider.

I'm going to keep my thoughts about chinese cannibals to myself for the time being, but I have them, oh yes I do.

[Brighid_Moon]

The victim's severed nose, ear and part of his mouth were found in a plastic bag in Li's pocket after his arrest, court was told.

...

...

Ew.

The punch line of the ad was "There's a reason you've never heard of 'bus rage."' Greyhound spokeswoman Abby Wambaugh says the company feels the ad, launched last year, could be offensive and that it is no longer appropriate.

Okay, I LOLed.

[Jeff]

Not all group minds are groovy especially if you're a freaked-out outsider.

"They did some very interesting and downright inhumane experiments with rat colonies, Neville. They found when certain population limits are reached, all it takes is the addition of one extra rat, and the whole community slides into unstoppable chaos. One little rat and utopia turns into Rwanda.

"I'm an expert in social erosion techniques, martial arts as applied to whole societies; taming and breaking a culture is the same as brainwashing a human being. But it's what happens after that interests me."

Spartacus Hughes, in Grant Morrison's The Filth

[8bitagent]

That quote Jeff, reminds me of that scene toward the end of Jacob's Ladder that explains it all.

But if Li was doing ecstacy, wouldn't the authorities have known if he was on any substances?

All Li is saying is "please kill me"....I believe given the special circumstances,
they should give him to a firing squad as soon as possible.

The beheading, cannibalism, robotic stabbing out of nowhere, the baggy with the kid's face, the parading the head around, the stabbing the door...it's all so much.

Yet I can't get over that statement...it's so freaking creepy

"I have to stay on this bus forever"...holy shit that's creepy.

[justdrew]

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/project_badger.pdf

Why Does RCMP Refer to Flesh Eating Murderer as “Badger”?
August 4th, 2008

Is “Badger” a generic term that these cops use to refer to suspects??? Or… Hmm.

There’s a recording of the police radio transmissions here and here.

Also, I’ve come across a couple (1, 2) other decapitation cases in recent days, besides the one below.

Random madness, or something else?

Via: AP:

A police officer at the scene of a fatal stabbing on a Canadian bus reported seeing the attacker hacking off pieces of the victim’s body and eating them, according to a police tape leaked on the Internet Saturday.

In the tape of radio transmissions, officers referred to the attacker, who also beheaded the victim, as “Badger.” They said he was armed with a knife and scissors and was “defiling the body.”

“Badger’s at the back of the bus, hacking off pieces and eating it,” an officer with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said on the tape.

The RCMP described the tapes as “operational police communications and, as such, are not meant for public consumption.” The tape was posted on YouTube among other Web sites.

see section 4 a on page 2 of the PDF. Could "People's Republic of China" be the location that is blacked out?

Li had developed a tendency to take off on bus trips occasionally. Was he going to a location to participate in what he thought were paid research drug trials? Keeping this secret to not worry his wife.

maybe..?