Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

[jingofever]

Ah, yes, the peaceful nations.

And some of those people the Egyptians tortured were rendered by the CIA.

[nathan28]

Ah, yes, the peaceful nations.

And some of those people the Egyptians tortured were rendered by the CIA.

AND OMG TEH STATE DEPARTMNT UZED TEH DIPLOMASEE TO TEH HUMAN RITES VIOLASHUNS IN TEH EGYPT ITZ A TRAP

[nathan28]

... The point is that most real demonstrations, indigenous or otherwise, go under- or un-reported. I've been in enough to know that personally. The ones that get media attention are the bogus ones like Tea Party rallies.
...

what's more, these aren't "demonstrations" like the antiwar demos in 2003, they're riots and more like LA post Rodney King. those were widely publicized.

*

Therefore, Rodney King was CIA. QED.

[JackRiddler]

.

Internet is weird.

Imagine you were dealing with lubbypal saying these exact same things in any real-world context. Let's say you were at a demonstration at the UN in solidarity with the Egyptian uprising and he struck up a talk with you. How long would the conversation have lasted? How seriously would you have tried to convince him of anything? Where would you be having your dinner by now?

.

[jingofever]

Who Is Omar Suleiman?:
Posted by Jane Mayer

One of the “new” names being mentioned as a possible alternative to President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, Omar Suleiman, is actually not so new to anyone who has followed the American policy of renditions for terror suspects. After dissolving his cabinet yesterday, Mubarak appointed Suleiman vice-president, and according to many commentators he is poised to be a potential successor, and an alternative to Mubarak’s son and intended heir until now, Gamal Mubarak. Suleiman is a well-known quantity in Washington. Suave, sophisticated, and fluent in English, he has served for years as the main conduit between the United States and Mubarak. While he has a reputation for loyalty and effectiveness, he also carries some controversial baggage from the standpoint of those looking for a clean slate on human rights. As I described in my book “The Dark Side,” since 1993 Suleiman has headed the feared Egyptian general intelligence service. In that capacity, he was the C.I.A.’s point man in Egypt for renditions—the covert program in which the C.I.A. snatched terror suspects from around the world and returned them to Egypt and elsewhere for interrogation, often under brutal circumstances.

As laid out in greater detail by Stephen Grey, in his book “Ghost Plane,” beginning in the nineteen-nineties, Suleiman negotiated directly with top Agency officials. Every rendition was greenlighted at the highest levels of both the U.S. and Egyptian intelligence agencies. Edward S. Walker, Jr., a former U.S. Ambassador to Egypt, described Suleiman as “very bright, very realistic,” adding that he was cognizant that there was a downside to “some of the negative things that the Egyptians engaged in, of torture and so on. But he was not squeamish, by the way.”

Technically, U.S. law required the C.I.A. to seek “assurances” from Egypt that rendered suspects wouldn’t face torture. But under Suleiman’s reign at the intelligence service, such assurances were considered close to worthless. As Michael Scheuer, a former C.I.A. officer who helped set up the practice of rendition, later testified before Congress, even if such “assurances” were written in indelible ink, “they weren’t worth a bucket of warm spit."


And from a Counterpunch article American Dream posted:

In Egypt, where torture seems to be a Government sport, Habib was interrogated by the country’s Intelligence Director, General Omar Suleiman, who is is ranked second in power to President Hosni Mubarak. Back in 2001, Suleiman took a personal interest in anyone suspected of links with Al Qaeda. As Habib had visited Afghanistan shortly before 9/11, he was under suspicion. Suleiman slapped Habib’s face so hard, the blindfold was dislodged, revealing the torturer’s identity. According to his memoir, Habib was repeatedly zapped with high-voltage electricity, immersed in water up to his nostrils, beaten, his fingers were broken and he was hung from metal hooks.

He was again interrogated by Omar Suleiman. To loosen Habib’s tongue, Suleiman ordered a guard to murder a gruesomely shackled Turkistan prisoner in front of Habib – and he did, with a vicious karate kick. Suleiman is expected to be the next President of Egypt.

[lupercal]

^ hmm... hava1 wrote earlier:

ISrael now happy with the new vice pres, a friend of the IDF and a "reasonable man".

I wonder if this was an official deal or a hail mary pass. Either way it helps explain the past and present thuggery of the Mubarak regime, and future if it lasts. Somehow I don't see this as a victory for Egyptians.

[wintler2]

Quit trolling the revolution.

Instructive for when our revolution comes: it might not be televised, but it'll probably be trolled.

It has, and it is.

Is anyone really taking this thread seriously?

Jack appears to be.

Well played.

Sincerity is a strength, not a weakness.

[Laodicean]

Quit trolling the revolution.

Instructive for when our revolution comes: it might not be televised, but it'll probably be trolled.

It has, and it is.

That may be so. Doesn't make them any more apart of it. Like it, or not.

Edit:

Suspicious of it...or not.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Are you trying to say that you know what the CIA is thinking, and that it's not what Tarpley thinks it thinking?

Tarpley is thinking "how can I spin this to best reflect my LaRouchian prejudices." (Against young people and challenging authority specifically.)

Incidentally do any great defenders of the latest failed Twitbook revolution deny that the failed 2009 Twitter "revolution" in Iran was a botched CIA job?

A botched CIA job? I dunno. Maybe it was just another example of the CIA jumping on something else and trying to create a revowooshion. (Hey Pwesto kids.)

Does anyone deny that Tunisia and Yemen have already gotten color designations?

By who? The people in Tunisia and Yemen? I doubt it, then again what would they know, they are obviously deluded arabs unable to grasp the subtleties of geopolitics. No wonder they are incapabvle of controlling their own destinies.

In fact on reflection its actually probably better that the CIA does control those revolutions, cos obviously if the population are too ignorant to know whats going on behind the scenes so they aren't really responsible enough to run a country anyway. Much better we figure out they're incapable of free and original thought now so we can take proper control of this revolution now hey people.

After all if not it could go in any direction.

Does anyone that deny that agents provocateurs in the Egyptian security personnel are leading the mayhem, exactly as they've done in otherwise peaceful demonstration I myself have participated in.

Yeah, this guy:

http://twitter.com/3arabawy

and him:

http://twitter.com/sharifkouddous

Funny how their own the ground reports ( and photos etc etc) seem to be at odds with your opinion. Also funny how the "word on the street" seems to be that El Baradei isn't any opposition leader tho may help in the negotiations, that the army wasn't protecting civilians it just wasn't shooting them, and the only legitimacy in this situation belong to the grass roots groups organising the protesters in the absence of the state. Ie normal people who seem to be coming into their own with a little "freedom".

The looters and secret police aren't "agent provocateurs" they are a pack of thugs released onto the streets of Cairo to terrorise the protesters.

So please explain by what pretzel logic you've convinced yourself that it serves Mubarak's interests to organize a nearly successful coup against himself, because I'm not following.

You're the one who needs to "please explain" Pauline. Whatever "logic" have you used to come to the conclusion that anyone thinks Mubarak organised this is beyond me. If you had a look at whats happening there (using twitter oh noez the PCIAN) according to the people there you wouldn't be saying stuff like that.

Why don't you read up on whats happening in Egypt, have a good hard look at the Latin A. uprisings and then think about it again, then m,aybe find some way to get messages to those people in Egypt warning them about the dangers of El Baradei et al instead of tut tutting about how uncouth it all is.

[JackRiddler]

Okay, no looking, just off the top of your head or you are teaching: Name three central Cairo metro stops. (It's easy, and it's not a trick question, like that Cairo doesn't have a metro. It does.)

[nathan28]

I think that the Tarpley arguments are very out of touch, an analysis that makes sense in it's own terms, but which is suffering from a lack of adequate sampling of reality and hamstrung by an inadequate refresh rate with actual real world events.

Tarpley isn't out of touch, he's a fabulist and a LaRouchite fascist, and w/r/t LaRouche, the term fascist is not an exaggeration.

[lupercal]

contingent on "suitable reforms," natch:
..........................
G8 pledges $20 billion to foster Arab Spring
Fri May 27, 2011 10:07am EDT

(Reuters) - The Group of Eight promised $20 billion in aid to Tunisia and Egypt on Friday and held out the prospect of billions more to foster the Arab Spring and the new democracies emerging from popular uprisings.

Likening it to the fall of the Berlin Wall that changed Europe, G8 leaders ending an annual summit in France launched a partnership for North Africa and the Middle East that ties aid and development credits to progress on political and economic reforms by states which have thrown off autocratic rulers.


British Prime Minister David Cameron, left, chats to Barack Obama during a round table meeting at the G8 summit in Deauville. Whatever you say Dave, I'm here to help and did anyone every tell you you have dreamy eyes?

Most is in the form of loans rather than outright grants, to the two countries in the vanguard of protest movements which have swept the Arab world from the Atlantic to the Gulf. Egypt and Tunisia are planning to hold free elections this year. even though their governments have been decapitated, raising the question of exactly how this can be done, but never mind. . .

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said that on top of $20 billion of credits provided by the World Bank and similar regional lenders dominated by the major powers, there would be as much again from other sources -- $10 billion from oil-rich Gulf Arab states and $10 billion from other governments.  

Other countries could hope for aid in future. In a statement after the two-day summit in the northern resort of Deauville, the G8 leaders signaled they "strongly support the aspirations of the Arab Spring as well as those of the Iranian people." the ones who play ball with the banksters that is.

"The changes under way in the Middle East and North Africa are historic and have the potential to open the door to the kind of transformation that occurred in Central and Eastern Europe after the fall of the Berlin Wall," the G8 said. I believe it's called privatization?

Multilateral development banks "could provide over $20 billion, including 3.5 billion euros from the EIB, for Egypt and Tunisia for 2011-2013 in support of suitable reform efforts."

SUPPORT REQUESTED

Senior Egyptian and Tunisian officials unidentified and presumably unelected met the leaders of the G8, expanded from seven Western powers to include Russia and bridge the East-West divide after the end of the Cold War, to plead for massive support for their fragile economies.

Tourism, major sources of revenue for both Tunisia and Egypt, has been particularly badly hit by the popular uprisings that have also spooked investors.

"We are truly very satisfied with the very strong, clear and precise statements proffered by all of the G8 nations, and the financial institutions," said Tunisian Finance Minister Jalloul Ayed told a news conference in Deauville.

"It's very clear that everybody wants to help us." right, everybody wants to help you strip your assets and privatize your resources

An International Monetary Fund report on Thursday said the external financing needs of oil-importing Middle East and North African states would top $160 billion over the next three years.

The IMF said it could provide $35 billion, but many states are implementing austerity measures to rein in budget deficits and trim public debt, which could affect the amount they are willing to stump up to help emerging Arab democracies.

The summit also backed the extension of the mandate of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development into North Africa and the Middle East. The bank was created after the Cold War to help former Communist states become market economies. "market economies" = bankster profit centers

A U.S. official traveling with President Barack Obama was among several to stress that money is tight, that the credits would be forthcoming only if political change went ahead and that the main goal was to help the Arabs help themselves.

"It's not a blank cheque. It's in the context of overall reform programs," said Mike Froman, a deputy national security adviser at the White House. "It's an envelope that could be achieved in the context of suitable reform efforts. oh yes, don't spare the "reforms"

"More important than any numerical figure, I think, is the vision that it lays out," he added

"This is largely a case of trade not aid, investment not assistance over time. It's really about establishing the conditions under which the private sectors in these economies can flourish and the benefits of growth are broadly shared."

"GADDAFI MUST GO"

The World Bank on Tuesday unveiled $6 billion in new funding for Tunisia and Egypt, whose revolts have inspired popular uprisings in Yemen, Bahrain and Syria. Demands for reform have also been heard from Morocco to Saudi Arabia.

The popular movement for change has also left Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi fighting to stay in power, and G8 leaders said he had lost all legitimacy because of his use of force against civilians who's bombing the daylights out of Tripoli again? protesting his rule: "He has no future in a free, democratic Libya. He must go," the leaders said.

Russia signaled it was ready to mediate in the crisis, Moscow's special representative on Africa Mikhail Margelov telling reporters Russia had contacts in Gaddafi's entourage.

But Sarkozy said: "Mediation is not possible with Gaddafi." And other Western leaders stressed that they were mainly grateful for Moscow's agreement that the Libyan leader should step down, even if Russia has opposed NATO's bombing campaign.

British Prime Minister David Cameron, however, said he did not recall Medvedev offer to mediate and said Britain was sending attack helicopters to Libya to step up pressure on Gaddafi.

Earlier, Obama and Sarkozy said they were determined to "finish the job" in Libya.

On Syria, the G8 leaders said they were "appalled" by the killing of peaceful protesters opposed to the rule of President Bashar al-Assad, and demanded authorities stop using force against them.

They also condemned violence against protesters seeking the removal of Yemen's President Ali Abdullah Saleh, and urged him to respect a pledge to stand down.

SUMMIT AGENDA

The world's current crises have forced their way on to the agenda of the Group, whose importance has diminished with the rise of emerging economies like China and India.

The G8 leaders, on Thursday discussed nuclear safety and the global economy, noting on Friday in their communique that the recovery was becoming more "self-sustained," although higher commodity prices were hampering further growth.

They renewed a pledge to wrap up talks this year on Russia's entry into the World Trade Organization and said long-stalled global trade talks was a matter of "great concern" and that they would explore all options to get things moving.

With aid to Arab states dominating, the G8 also issued a special declaration saying it stood side-by-side with Africa while bombing it into oblivion and would intensify its efforts to achieve peace and stability, economic development and growth, regional trade and investment.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/ ... eedfetcher
.....................
oh the irony..

[Joe Hillshoist]

So its been 4 or 5 months since this all started, and the G8 is finally getting around to dealing with what happened months ago.

And compare Libya to the rest of them... honestly I don't think your initial hypothesis holds up lupercal.

But anyway:

"The changes under way in the Middle East and North Africa are historic and have the potential to open the door to the kind of transformation that occurred in Central and Eastern Europe after the fall of the Berlin Wall," the G8 said. I believe it's called privatization?

Yeah and at the moment it appears to be a serious issue, as this guy, who you called a CIA stooge, is happy to point out:

http://www.arabawy.org/2011/05/21/egywo ... -in-egypt/

Honestly it seems the thing in Libya is a bit like what happened in Iraq post 9/11. ie, here's a good excuse - lets use it to achieve our goals (getting rid of Ghadaffi. Maybe he didn't pay for his last lot of coke.)

[lupercal]

So its been 4 or 5 months since this all started, and the G8 is finally getting around to dealing with what happened months ago.

It's been in the works since at least 2008. If you have a few minutes watch some or all of this vid which "takes a look back at Egypt and the so called people-inspired revolution there":

Manufacturing Dissent? - Uploaded by bobzimmerfan on Mar 23, 2011

Nothing particular to say about wikileaks so not to worry. Bit slow tho.

And compare Libya to the rest of them... honestly I don't think your initial hypothesis holds up lupercal.

My guess is that the bombers and special forces went into Libya mainly as a sop to the MIC which has to be feeling left out of the whole "soft power" business.