Nuclear Meltdown Watch

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby SonicG » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:43 pm

Here's a positive perspective- of course the true intent of the post is questioned (only post ever on the blog) in the comments but perhaps it can add some information. More skeptical comments here.

Bottom line:
* The plant is safe now and will stay safe.
* Japan is looking at an INES Level 4 Accident: Nuclear accident with local consequences. That is bad for the company that owns the plant, but not for anyone else.
* Some radiation was released when the pressure vessel was vented. All radioactive isotopes from the activated steam have gone (decayed). A very small amount of Cesium was released, as well as Iodine. If you were sitting on top of the plants’ chimney when they were venting, you should probably give up smoking to return to your former life expectancy. The Cesium and Iodine isotopes were carried out to the sea and will never be seen again.
* There was some limited damage to the first containment. That means that some amounts of radioactive Cesium and Iodine will also be released into the cooling water, but no Uranium or other nasty stuff (the Uranium oxide does not “dissolve” in the water). There are facilities for treating the cooling water inside the third containment. The radioactive Cesium and Iodine will be removed there and eventually stored as radioactive waste in terminal storage.
* The seawater used as cooling water will be activated to some degree. Because the control rods are fully inserted, the Uranium chain reaction is not happening. That means the “main” nuclear reaction is not happening, thus not contributing to the activation. The intermediate radioactive materials (Cesium and Iodine) are also almost gone at this stage, because the Uranium decay was stopped a long time ago. This further reduces the activation. The bottom line is that there will be some low level of activation of the seawater, which will also be removed by the treatment facilities.
* The seawater will then be replaced over time with the “normal” cooling water
* The reactor core will then be dismantled and transported to a processing facility, just like during a regular fuel change.
* Fuel rods and the entire plant will be checked for potential damage. This will take about 4-5 years.
* The safety systems on all Japanese plants will be upgraded to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and tsunami (or worse)
* I believe the most significant problem will be a prolonged power shortage. About half of Japan’s nuclear reactors will probably have to be inspected, reducing the nation’s power generating capacity by 15%. This will probably be covered by running gas power plants that are usually only used for peak loads to cover some of the base load as well. That will increase your electricity bill, as well as lead to potential power shortages during peak demand, in Japan.


The recent history of the nuclear energy industry here in Japan is not very reassuring. In fact, I have occasionally been translating stuff regarding a nearby plant that had lax inspection leading to a minor accident, so I am not feeling very positive about the outcome.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Project Willow » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:55 pm

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:12 pm

we must be having meltdown in reactor 3 by now...

As of 7 pm EDT Sunday 3/13/11

We reported earlier about the situation at Fukushima Dai-Ichi reactor Unit 1. The nuclear crisis in Japan took a turn for the worse as serious problems developed in reactor Unit 3.

Officials from Tokyo Electric reported that after multiple cooling system failures, the water level in the Unit 3 reactor vessel dropped 3 meters (nearly 10 feet), uncovering approximately 90 percent of the fuel in the reactor core. Authorities were able to inject cooling water with a fire pump after reducing the containment pressure by a controlled venting of radioactive gas. As they did with Unit 1, they began pumping sea water into Unit 3, which is highly corrosive and may preclude any future use of the reactor even if a crisis is averted.

However, Tokyo Electric has reported that the water level in the Unit 3 reactor still remains more than 2 meters (6 feet) below the top of the fuel, exposing about half the fuel to air, and they believe that water may be leaking from the reactor vessel. When the fuel is exposed to air it eventually overheats and suffers damage. It is likely that the fuel has experienced significant damage at this point, and the authorities have said they are proceeding on this assumption.

One particular concern with Unit 3 is the presence of mixed-oxide (MOX) fuel in the core. MOX is a mixture of plutonium and uranium oxides. In September 2010, 32 fuel assemblies containing MOX fuel were loaded into this reactor. This is about 6% of the core.

I have done considerable analysis on the safety risks associated with using MOX fuel in light-water reactors. The use of MOX generally increases the consequences of severe accidents in which large amounts of radioactive gas and aerosol are released compared to the same accident in a reactor using non-MOX fuel, because MOX fuel contains greater amounts of plutonium and other actinides, such as americium and curium, which have high radio-toxicities.

Because of this, the number of latent cancer fatalities resulting from an accident could increase by as much as a factor of five for a full core of MOX fuel compared to the same accident with no MOX. Fortunately, as noted above, the fraction of the fuel in this reactor that is MOX is small. Even so, I would estimate this could cause a roughly 10% increase in latent cancer fatalities if there were a severe accident with core melt and containment breach, which has not happened at this point and hopefully will not.

While the authorities continue playing down the possibility of a breach of the primary containment at these reactors, I remain concerned. Fukushima Dai-Ichi reactor Units 1, 2, and 3 are boiling water reactors with Mark I containments. The Mark I is unusually vulnerable to containment failure in the event of a core-melt accident. A recent study by Sandia National Laboratories shows that the likelihood of containment failure in this case is nearly 42% (see Table 4-7 on page 97). The most likely failure scenario involves the molten fuel burning through the reactor vessel, spilling onto the containment floor, and spreading until it contacts and breeches the steel containment-vessel wall.

The Sandia report characterizes these probabilities as “quite high.” It’s not straightforward to interpret these results in the context of the very complicated and uncertain situation at Fukushima. But they are a clear indication of a worrisome vulnerability of the Mark I containment should the core completely melt and escape the reactor vessel.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:33 pm

new explosion at Fukishima

10 ft tsunami
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Ben D » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:34 pm

Seems it has justdrew....

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFTKB00732520110314

Smoke seen rising from Fukushima Daiichi plant No.3 reactor -TV

Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:18am GMT

March 14 (Reuters) - Smoke was seen rising from the No. 3 reactor at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, domestic media images showed.

Operators had earlier halted injection of sea water into the reactor, resulting in a rise in radiation levels and pressure. The government had warned that an explosion was possible because of the buildup of hydrogen in the building housing the reactor.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:40 pm

#
0236: The wall of a building collapsed as a result of the blast(s) at Reactor 3 - Japanese TV.
#
0234: Some 2,000 bodies were found today on two shores in Miyagi Prefecture, 1,000 on the Ojika Peninsula and 1,000 at Minamisanriku - Japanese news agency Kyodo.
#
0232: Update on the explosion(s) at Reactor 3: "We believe it was a hydrogen explosion. It is not immediately known if it affected the reactor" - nuclear safety agency spokesman Ryo Miyake.
#
0231: No data to suggest a tsunami several metres in height, the monitor adds.
#
0229: An ashen-faced Japanese quake monitor is live on Japanese TV right now saying no tsunami has been detected.
#
0227: There were two explosions at Reactor 3, the operator Tepco says - AFP.
#
0225: Just to remind you: there were fears of a meltdown at Reactor 3 on Sunday. Also: an explosion occurred at Reactor 1 on Saturday but the core was reportedly not exposed.
#
0224: "Hydrogen blast occurs at Fukushima nuke plant's No 3 reactor" - Kyodo.
#
0221: Urgent: Explosion at Reactor 3 - AFP.
#
0220: Sea level has dropped five metres off Fukushima, confirming imminent arrival of tsunami - Japanese TV.

220 = 7:20 pm pacific time
Last edited by justdrew on Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:46 pm

Japan's nuclear crisis: the causes and the risks
The Guardian - ‎12 hours ago‎
The Japanese authorities have classified the situation as a level 4 "accident with local consequences" on the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale.The scale runs from zero for a deviation in normal operations to seven for a major accident ...
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:48 pm

well, if the aliens are ever going to do anything, now would be a good time
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:59 pm

    #
    0254: To recap, in the past hour we have had reports of a new tsunami which appears to have been a false alarm, and a blast has wrecked a wall at a nuclear reactor but its containment vessel withstood the impact. We also had reports of 2,000 bodies found on the tsunami-ravaged north-eastern coast.
    #
    0250: For more details of the explosions at Reactor 3, link text hereread our breaking news story.
    #
    0247: Mr Edano said major radiation leaks were unlikely from Reactor 3.
    #
    0243: Japanese government spokesman Yukio Edano has just spoken on TV. Says that water injection at Reactor 3 seems to be continuing, and the containment vessel is still safe.
    #
    0242: Reactor 3 withstood the explosion(s), its operator says - Japanese news agency Jiji.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby smiths » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:35 pm

3.12am: It has now been confirmed that the reactor's inner containment vessel holding nuclear rods is intact. (yeah, right)

3.00am: Japan's chief cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano, says a hydrogen explosion has occurred at Unit 3 of Japan's stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant. The blast was similar to an earlier one at a different unit of the facility.

People within a 12 mile (120 kilometre) radius have been ordered inside. Reports in the area say they felt the explosion 30 miles away, according to AP.

The No. 3 Unit reactor had been under emergency watch for a possible explosion as pressure built up there following a hydrogen blast Saturday in the facility's Unit 1.
More than 180,000 people have evacuated the area.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... e-coverage


that line that these are just hydrogen explosions was being put forward by the World Nuclear Association yesterday, as though just a hydrogen explosion at a nuclear power plant was nothing really to be concerned about, for fucks sake
this is first and foremost a tragedy of massive proportions and i am sorry for that,
but this bad news for the nuclear industry is very good news for people who would love to get rid of nuclear power permanently
it destroys the entire statistical argument that they try to make which is that its been decades since a major accident and 'they' know how to manage the risks now
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Luther Blissett » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:41 pm

justdrew wrote:well, if the aliens are ever going to do anything, now would be a good time


Ashamedly, I had the same thought yesterday in thinking about the UFO sightings over US nuclear facilities linked with the weapons systems going offline a few years ago.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:49 pm

The Dr. guys on MSNBC were down playing the nuclear thing too. They said it would never be a big problem
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:53 pm

:hrumph e'heh...
#
0351: Full quotes from Yukio Edano on the explosion: "We believe that there is a low possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been leaked. But it is similar to the time when the hydrogen explosion took place in number 1 reactor (which exploded on Saturday). In the case of number 3 reactor, we can see higher level of radiation. We are now collecting information for the concentration of the radiation and the dose."
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby barracuda » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 pm

23 posted this in the other thread. Looks like a huge explosion - bigger than reactor 1.

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:12 am

stories changing by the minute...
0409: The Japanese government has just said there was no marked change in the radiation level after the blast at Reactor 3. According to an article in the New York Times, the US aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from Japan's stricken reactors on Sunday. Crew members received a month's worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials were quoted as saying.


I wish I could understand how a 5-meter drop in sea level at the coast can be mis-perceived...
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