a little reminder... on differences...

[gnosticheresy_2]

Jack, NOBODY HERE IS TALKING ABOUT COMPROMISE.

Why the fuck can't you see that, and why the fuck are you still ranting about it??

Seriously. I really like you and have great respect for you, but you've been tweaked and are shouting at the sky.

The people are not our enemies, it's the leaders who are driving them over a cliff and should be dealt with. I feel it is our duty to reach out and tell them it doesn't have to be this way, cut the leaders off where they really live, in the minds of people who are most susceptible to thought manipulation.

Sometimes you have to reach out. Sometimes you have to fight.

[Nordic]

Jack, NOBODY HERE IS TALKING ABOUT COMPROMISE.

Why the fuck can't you see that, and why the fuck are you still ranting about it??

Seriously. I really like you and have great respect for you, but you've been tweaked and are shouting at the sky.

The people are not our enemies, it's the leaders who are driving them over a cliff and should be dealt with. I feel it is our duty to reach out and tell them it doesn't have to be this way, cut the leaders off where they really live, in the minds of people who are most susceptible to thought manipulation.

Sometimes you have to reach out. Sometimes you have to fight.

You can do both. And what Sunny is describing isn't appeasement or compromise, its merely talking, which is something that has to be done at some point anyway.

You have to fight the right people. The PTB want us to fight our neighbors rather than the actual guilty parties, which is what the article in the OP is promoting.

You can talk without giving an inch of ground. Appeasement means giving stuff away. So does compromise. You can be steadfast without hate.

[sunny]

You can be steadfast without hate.

At the end of the day that's all I'm saying.

Jesus, I guess MLK, the example he provided and the lessons he taught never happened. Did he compromise? No. Did he hate? No.

[brainpanhandler]

Nordic, do me a favor please. As best as is possible describe the type of person you think I oght to try to talk to. I understand it's difficult to "type" people, but try your best please. And then if you would describe the best case scenario of that conversation. I leave it to you to pick the topic of this hypothetical conversation.

[sunny]

Nordic, do me a favor please. As best as is possible describe the type of person you think I oght to try to talk to. I understand it's difficult to "type" people, but try your best please. And then if you would describe the best case scenario of that conversation. I leave it to you to pick the topic of this hypothetical conversation.

Any human with a brain and heart can figure this one out for themselves.

Now YOU tell us what we should be doing other than talking to them. Hypothetically, what is it you want us to do about the haters in your no talking /no compromise world?

[Simulist]

Nordic, do me a favor please. As best as is possible describe the type of person you think I oght to try to talk to. I understand it's difficult to "type" people, but try your best please. And then if you would describe the best case scenario of that conversation. I leave it to you to pick the topic of this hypothetical conversation.

Thank you for choosing to leave it to him to pick the topic — or else you'd be sounding eerily similar to Linda Richmond from Coffee Talk.

And by the way, I think the OP's John Cole has developed shpilkis in his genechtagazoink. He needs a week off in Boca Raton, Florida to recover. Thank you very much.

"Discuss."

[Hammer of Los]

...

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God.

Although personally I prefer "Dancers at the End of Time."

I know not what the future holds.

Or maybe I do.

Either way, I ain't sayin'.

But I do so love Sunny, and all the others who speak for a broader constituency than the tired old dichotomies of right and left.

The Age of Aquarius will be an age in which the contraries are reconciled.

And Harvey takes his place amongst the wise;

Whatever and whenever 'it' arrives, I think it will require all our engagement, which is why I think RIGHT NOW is an incredibly important time for preparation in all aspects of ones life, from clearing up old 'stuff', to learning how to create a hydroponic vegetable garden to getting to know people in the local and wider community, cos I think that once 'it' arrives, the time for preparation and planning will stop. I feel an urgency even about these exchanges on RI, which are pretty intense. I get 'on it' - I see it, acknowledge it and try to move on as fast as I can.

I'm not really afraid, it's all a shadow play. But I do feel the same urgency, though I can't be sure that the urgency is not my own, our own, deeper consciousness urging us forward to be all that we are. In cultivating our own garden we introduce beauty and a degree of self sufficiency. Everything benefits. If we merge our gardens and share our efforts we create a larger habitat and a greater social cohesion. So much the better. And if the centre cannot hold? Well, then we are all better placed to help each other.

I get the definite sense that the material world is perfectible (does this fly in the face of every creed?) and perhaps the only thing preventing this are our illusions. Illusions such as acquisition, ownership or seperation. Here we have a very fine discussion of such illusions and how we jostle for primacy within the game.

I like my black Nissan monster truck with blueberry. I like my red Ford Dragon with ketchup. Which illusion satifies more?

I couldn't say.

I don't worship at the altar of Our Ford.

I have never owned a motor vehicle.

I don't even have a drivers' licence.

I prefer shanks' pony.

And the rewards of virtue.

The material world is, of course, an illusion.

Meditate upon this;

The external material reality is a symbolic representation of the content of your own subconscious, conscious and superconscious mind(s).

This entails not that.

Everything contains within it it's own negation.

Meditate upon the yin and the yang.

Embody them both.

Be an ageless, eternal, genderless spirit being, and do your very best to bring benefit to all.

Left and right might war forever.

The resolution of every paradox brings an end to conflict.

Er, was that on topic?





...

[Nordic]

Nordic, do me a favor please. As best as is possible describe the type of person you think I oght to try to talk to. I understand it's difficult to "type" people, but try your best please. And then if you would describe the best case scenario of that conversation. I leave it to you to pick the topic of this hypothetical conversation.

I actually do this fairly frequently, and I have to do it whenever I talk to certain members of my family.

What's important is to avoid the usual push-button topics and responses. Also, if they're religious you can use religion in your favor, because after all Jesus was about as liberal as you can get.

I find we have a lot of common ground with these people until they start, say, blaming Obama for everything and going off on their brainwashing points, at which point there's almost no way to engage them, although I did stymie my stepmom a while back asking her for some specific examples of any actions Obama has taken that could be called "liberal". Her mind went blank there.

I think its important for people to blend as much as possible so we can see that those "other people" are human too. My dad is like the fellow Neon describes above -- if you're his neighbor he'll give you the shirt off his back and do damn near anything for you.

However if you're up against truly sociopathic people, like racists who would actually enjoy dragging a black guy behind their truck just because he's black, obviously there's no reason to be talking to them because they're just dangerous criminal bullies, and the best way to deal with them is with the threat of a 2x4 upside the head.

The thing to remember is that a large percentage of people think they're doing the best thing, even if they're completely wrong. They have been whipped into a frenzy of hate by the hyponotists of our time.

[sunny]

I love you too Hammer. Beautiful post.

Nordic, I have to talk to them too or disown members of my own family. That's not going to happen. Hell, my own mother was a winger for most of her adult life but she was damn near a Socialist when she died thanks to our long and involved political discussions. Many can be swayed, especially when I bring Jesus into it as I do quite frequently. It usually has the effect of stymieing their religious arguments.

As for Obama we can all agree he's no good, we just feel that way for different reasons.

To a man and woman conservatives bleed, love, work, and die just like the rest of us.

[Simulist]

I love you too Hammer. Beautiful post.

Nordic, I have to talk to them too or disown members of my own family. That's not going to happen. Hell, my own mother was a winger for most of her adult life but she was damn near a Socialist when she died thanks to our long and involved political discussions. Many can be swayed, especially when I bring Jesus into it as I do quite frequently. It usually has the effect of stymieing their religious arguments.

As for Obama we can all agree he's no good, we just feel that way for different reasons.

To a man and woman conservatives bleed, love, work, and die just like the rest of us.

I can echo all of that, including the good feelings about Hammer.

Also, my mom was a Republican for most of her life — a very, very conservative Republican.

Now she's a very, very liberal Democrat who thinks Obama is a total sell out.

She's 89.

People change.

[sunny]

People change.

Indeed, and who among uswill be the judge of which ones can't or won't change? Who does it hurt to assume good will on the part of others unless or until we're proven wrong?

[Wombaticus Rex]

Sorry but the OP is election year divide/conquer bullshit.

Amen. Liberals are hardly innocent of hatred.

[IanEye]

There never was a time when I was not.,
nor you, nor these rulers of men. Nor
will there ever be a time when all of
us shall cease to be.

He who understands him to be the slayer,
and he who takes him to be the slain,
both fail to perceive the truth. He
neither slays nor is slain.

Weapons cannot cleave him, nor fire
burn him; water cannot wet him, nor
wind dry him away.

[compared2what?]

[What is hate? Can we have that conversation?

Fear? Anger? Projection? I'm more concerned with our own sanity and not at all with turning the fascists around.

Per this enormous, boring meta-analysis in Psychology Bulletin of decades of studies on the psychology of conservatism -- which used 88 samples from 12 countries for a total of 22,818 cases -- the answer is mostly fear and partly projection, as this handy-dandy chart suggests:



(An integrative model of political conservatism as motivated social cognition)
__________________

There was also a neuro study not too long ago that showed that people who self-identified as right-wing (or conservative, I forget) had a much stronger response to aversive stimuli than people who self-identified as left-wing/liberal. FWIW. I don't remember it very well, but dimly recall it as basically saying (though not in so many words) that conservatives feel more disgust about ickiness than liberals do.

I think maybe it wasn't a very big sample or that I had some other reason to question it, though....Hm. Nope. I really don't recall it. Which in itself kinda suggests that I didn't think much of it. But maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

I'll go see if I can find it.

[Nordic]

When I do talk to these conservative folks, it becomes quickly apparent that their hatred is rooted in fear. They are the most fearful people I've ever met. And they would rather just destroy things that they fear rather than try to understand them. They don't want to take any chances that way! Heaven forbid the things they fear might actually infect their brain!