Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby kool maudit » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:22 am

kool maudit » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:21 am wrote:There is an ascendant far right in Sweden as well as a progressive consensus. It's complicated. Rosengård does generally have the sexual street-norms of outer Cairo, somewhere between Tirana and the Gulf cities. You can feel that. Whatever the rest, Scandinavian women have long been more independent than many of their northern and middle European counterparts, forgetting even the Mediterranean and North African situations for a second. The Norse laws were interesting in this regard. It's an old thing up here to a degree, more so than the generally post-60s thing of even Canada. It's pretty baked in to how people comport and carry themselves.




bit of a derail I guess. feel free to get back to Hillarity.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby American Dream » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:30 am

tapitsbo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:19 am wrote:I met a couple from Malmö (ethnically Swedish and English) a few months ago and they told me Sweden is run by fascist xenophobic Nazis.

Perceptions are interesting.

It's also interesting that "freedom of women" of the Ontario/Sweden kind is hated and mocked by leftists, rightists, feminists, and beyond and not exactly envied by women around the planet, at least not in any sort of simple way.

The right and left seem to agree and have a point with how that culture naturally should tend to cede ground to one that is very different and some would say less maladaptive and misguidedly engineered (purposefully dismantled?)

Clinton the Saudi funded feminist is a nice totem for these anxieties/disagreements though.


The world of tapitsbo is not that far from the world of backtoiam. Both seem to be based in Myth more than anything else...
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:12 am

tapitsbo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:19 am wrote:It's also interesting that "freedom of women" of the Ontario/Sweden kind is hated and mocked by leftists, rightists, feminists, and beyond and not exactly envied by women around the planet, at least not in any sort of simple way.


Really? Hated and mocked? By leftists? By feminists?! I'm going to resist what I really want to say to that bullshit. To make the latter claim, an especially absurd one, you'd better come up with more than one solid properly contextualized citation from actual feminists and from several different tendencies within feminism. Because it's just not true, and certainly not a mainstream feminist view (whatever that is exactly), or a view predominating within any major school of feminism. Criticism is likely to be of the incompleteness or possible falsehoods of the "Swedish/Ontario" model of freedom for women, not that these places are too free! And while I am sure it's not simple, no doubt there will be at least some women (and men, whom we should stop defaming here as default machos) in any randomly chosen other spot around the planet who would envy the circumstances supposedly prevalent in those places, assuming they are fully aware of what these circumstances of freedom for women supposedly are.

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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby tapitsbo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:20 am

If you can't decide whether to block me or monitor me, I get it.

The criticism is there, including a rich body of criticism of "freedom"

I'm just confused by what kool maudit would like. Settlements of newcomers in Northern Europe are breaking with local norms. I'm not aware of anyone wanting to keep those norms around, is all. Supporters of the status quo must be awful thin on the ground.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:24 pm

JackRiddler » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:13 pm wrote:SLAD, seriously, I'll bet you more women than men will vote for Jill Stein, whether she gets 5% or 2%. I have my reasons to prefer a Clinton over a Trump win, too, but if you're so determined to convince people it seems to me this is not going to work on this board, where everyone has pretty set opinions. Why aren't you trying somewhere where they might be genuine undecideds? Seems to me there are more votes for Clinton to be won from wavering Republicans than on RI, where you will change pretty much no one's mind and people right or wrong know already what they think.


The majority or the most vocal members of Jill Stein groups on social media and friends in real life who are voting for Jill Stein are women.

I'm on team Michelle Alexander and bell hooks at the moment but to be quite honest, depending upon this Angela Davis transcript, she might be enough to sway me. She's the first person where I would just feel foolish trying to defend my position, but all I have to go on are two out-of-context quotes from her.

On one hand, I appreciate seemslikeadream taking the charge on posting so much good anti-Trump resources here since we do have so many non-posting readers who might be undecided. But I will definitely volunteer to go on an excursion with you seemslikeadream to try to sway undecided voters elsewhere if you want to.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:19 pm

Spoke too soon out of a place of misunderstanding. Looks like I'm staying on team Michelle Alexander, bell hooks, and Kirsten West Savali.

The "us" in this piece refers to the black readership of The Root and her fellow anti-imperialist black lives matter activists.

A Few Words on the Blatant Disrespect Being Shown to Angela Davis
Let’s make this plain.

There have been intense, wide-spread and polarizing responses to my article on a statement made by scholar, freedom fighter, former political prisoner and icon Angela Davis during her Sept. 30 keynote address at the “Black Matters: The Futures of Black Scholarship and Activism” conference at the University of Texas at Austin.

During her address, Davis said, “I have serious problems with the other candidate, but I am not so narcissistic to say I cannot bring myself to vote for her.”

“Her” being Hillary Clinton as opposed to white supremacist, fascist and completely disreputable Donald Trump. No, I’m not adding caveats here about Hillary Clinton. Check my record on that. Now, in this space, I want to clarify a few things that really should not need clarification.

Angela Davis did not “endorse” Hillary Clinton as some Clinton supporters have breathlessly claimed—and to claim otherwise is just as ridiculous as those small-minds who claim a vote against Clinton is a vote for Trump who, as Davis has previously noted, “traffics in white rage.” What Davis did is make plain her electoral strategy embedded within her broader commitment to realizing collective liberation for black people.

She did not say that she was “with her”; she said that she was with us.

As noted in the article, Davis is just as committed to independent politics and liberation from a white supremacist system as she has always been.

I absolutely believe that Davis is operating from a position that she believes to have the true interests of Black, Latinx, Indigenous, working class people and those living in deep poverty at the center—as she always has. I do not, however, trust the same to be true of most Clinton supporters who are now cheering Davis’ comment. In my experience, these are the same supporters pretending that the extensive damage New Democrats have done—by covertly rebranding themselves as Republicans with a heart—has not devastated communities of color.

Undeniably, Davis’ statement at the Black Matters conference carries tremendous weight—primarily because it creates space to discuss diverging and converging paths to freedom and liberation. As Davis said during her keynote, “We should have learned by now … the arena of electoral politics militates against the expression of radical militant perspective.”

According to attendees’ tweets, Davis also said that she tries not to tell young people what to do because she resented that when she was younger. That is important to note here because the conversations surrounding Davis’ comment have largely devolved into reductionist charges that she is trying to shame people into voting for Hillary Clinton. These discussions are dangerous, misleading and frankly, embarrassing.

Without question, using the term “narcissism” is politically loaded right now because that kind of argument—egocentric, immature, ignorant, naive, selfish, dangerous—is being lobbed indiscriminately by mostly middle-class liberals at anyone who isn’t voting for Hillary Clinton. There is a movement that is full of people who are not only saying what they want to see in concrete terms and presenting pathways to those possibilities, but actively divesting from politicians who don’t work toward those goals. That cannot and should not be reduced to mere “narcissism.”

Still, that in no way, shape or form should indict Angela Davis—Angela Davis—on charges of not being committed to us and fighting for us with the means that she believes to be most effective. Choosing to not vote for a third-party candidate is not synonymous with no longer being invested in the construction of an independent party; that struggle, as Davis has said, is an ongoing, urgent and strenuous process.

I have reached out to Angela Davis in hopes that she will sit in circle with those of us who have modeled her radicalism in our own lives so she may answer any questions that we may have.

But the truth is she owes us no explanation. She has placed her life on the line for us. She is on the forefront of emancipatory, intersectional black feminist thought and the fight for liberation for oppressed people around the world. And she has consistently called out the white supremacist project that is the United States of America for what it is.

Be clear: If we’ve reached the point in the ride where we cannot engage Angela Davis with respect, then we’re going in the wrong direction.

But let me also say to HRC supporters who don’t align with Davis’ radical politics (at all): back up with the “Look Angela Davis said it; my Clintonians and I are right and everyone else is ignorant” narrative. Give us 50 feet. Don’t hide behind Angela Davis to push neoliberal politics and your favorite. The brilliance of Angela Davis—and the love and care she has shown for oppressed people around the world—goes far beyond this election.

What she stands for, many of you have never and would never—even if gifted the opportunity.

In this election, the Who is just as important to contend with as the Why. This does not mean that we can not disagree with the Why; Davis has encouraged us to challenge our heroes, herself included.

Still, I will build on Davis’ statement here and say that it is equally as important that we challenge our comrades.

Going forward, it is my deepest hope that we all engage Angela Davis’ statement in the context that it was given, and engage her with the love and respect that she has always shown us and that she unequivocally deserves.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby lyrimal » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:47 pm

What does Davis mean with her use of narcissistic? She believes it can only be out of selfishness that any good progressive wouldn't feel their vote is owed to Clinton?
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:03 pm

tapitsbo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:20 am wrote:If you can't decide whether to block me or monitor me, I get it.


I do what I like. These decisions aren't difficult and do not occupy me in particular.

The criticism is there, including a rich body of criticism of "freedom"


Cite or you're dickless.

I'm just confused by what kool maudit would like.


Maybe km partly thanks to direct experience recognizes complexities you do not.

Settlements of newcomers in Northern Europe are breaking with local norms. I'm not aware of anyone wanting to keep those norms around, is all. Supporters of the status quo must be awful thin on the ground.


What you are aware of, given your apparent absence of direct knowledge or desire to find out, does not say much about "anyone" there or here, or what's thin or thick on the ground.

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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby 82_28 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:10 pm

Cite or you're dickless.


Jack, let's not do this. I ain't no schoolmarm but that was a little bit uncalled for. Also, to repeat myself, this isn't going to go away, so just read what others have to say. We all have something to say. Mr. Rex's job is thankless. But thank you Mr. Rex.

Like he said, tone it down about 20%. We're in for the long haul here. Win or lose this is not going to go away.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:13 pm

I'm taking it to mean that given Davis's history of radical struggle and political independence, she's just speaking for herself and that she doesn't want to tell young voters what to do. She said that outright during her speech. Davis has made statements against Clinton in the past and, as this essay states, is not "with her".

I don't know, I'm confused too. Maybe she's choosing to vote against Trump and is embarrassed that she's not taking the anti-imperialist, anti-corporate, emancipatory vote.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:10 pm

lyrimal » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:47 pm wrote:What does Davis mean with her use of narcissistic? She believes it can only be out of selfishness that any good progressive wouldn't feel their vote is owed to Clinton?





........

The Electoral College renders the notion of third party voting or “parking your vote” as a protest of the major party candidates a moot and futile point in most cases. The electors for the party that gets the most votes in Mississippi will get all the state’s six electoral votes, even if that total for the winning candidate/ticket is less than 50 percent of the state’s popular vote.

So voting for a third-party candidate or “parking you vote” is, in reality, a rather narcissistic exercise that will accomplish little more than making you feel good about being able to say later on that you voted for neither Clinton nor Trump in 2016 — despite the fact that one of them will be living in the White House for the next four years.
http://yallpolitics.com/index.php/yp/post/44976/
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:12 pm

The "Parking your vote" appeal has and will continue to ensure no 3rd party ever reaches a point of viability, both in the public funding it would receive or in the publicity and legitimacy it would gain if any significant percentage of the disaffected voters rejected the lesser evil con and voted their conscience instead.

Maybe enough to force the media to acknowledge there are more than two classes of political thought. Which would be an entirely new adventure for modern America, and one I think we agree is sorely needed. I happen to think the chances are better at a time like now and not the day after the election or four years later when the same arguments I've endured my entire adult life will surely be trotted out again to support a creeping mediocrity of lesser-evilism.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:54 am

Anyone have any legit links on the "Hillary Clinton mused on assassinating Julian Assange in 2010" thing, or is it more disinfo?
Curious what the much hyped Wikileaks thing will be today.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby kool maudit » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:17 am

tapitsbo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:20 am wrote:If you can't decide whether to block me or monitor me, I get it.

The criticism is there, including a rich body of criticism of "freedom"

I'm just confused by what kool maudit would like. Settlements of newcomers in Northern Europe are breaking with local norms. I'm not aware of anyone wanting to keep those norms around, is all. Supporters of the status quo must be awful thin on the ground.



I don't particularly want anything save for people to recognise things that are true.
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Re: Hillary Clinton is Seriously Dangerous

Postby dada » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:22 am

I notice there's an insistence to use 'SJW' as a strawman. The fictional 'social justice warrior' (remember, from the start a derogatory term that means 'evil-feminists and people who fight for racial and sexual equality') represents everything you don't like about feminists and progressives.

The SJW is 'emotional to a fault.' 8bit's SJW is even 'emasculated.' Which is odd to me. All of the SJW's I've met are empowered, comfortable in their skin. That's actually a big part of what is so threatening, why there is a lot of hate directed our way. Liberated sexuality is scary to authoritarian minds. This is nothing new.

I'm curious why there's such a willingness for some people to embrace 'SJW' as a slur. I suspect it says a lot about the people who use it in a negative way.

And it's why I own it. You see who I am through my posts on this board. I'm somewhat intelligent, I like to think. I'm not against violence, I like to fight. I'm creative, I make a habit of thinking out of the box. If I represent this 'SJW,' what does that do for your strawman social justice warrior? Who are you talking about when you make reference to this decontextualized SJW? The disconnect between reality and your generalization becomes embarrassingly obvious.
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