Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmon

[Searcher08]

He visits Shatilla refuge camp in Beirut. The place is awful - I was expecting something poor and crowded but the reality was different - conditions such that a move to a Sao Paulo favela would be seen as a move up the property ladder.

[AlicetheKurious]

I am currently watching the Finklestein documentary, which is excellent.

I watched the first hour of it, and I'm not sure if I find anything he said which I really disagree with.

Then you probably missed this part:

Since he was denied tenure at DePaul, Norman has been pursuing another teaching position.

So far, he has been unsuccessful.

The Jewish Defense Organization has recently launched a "Drive Out Traitor to the Jews" campaign against Norman, plastering flyers in his building on Coney Island and calling on the landlord to evict him.

This kind of behavior is far from unusual, nor is it the worst of its kind -- in fact, it's all too familiar to anybody who's made any significant contribution to the Palestinians' struggle, or to exposing the real support networks for Israel's crimes.

It's hard to imagine how truly vicious and relentless these people can be, unless you experience it first-hand. They are fully confident that they can get away with treating people this way, over and over, and worst of all, they do.

[barracuda]

What do you expect from fanatic right-wing militants like the JDO? A heartfelt self-examination and a search for common ground?

[AlicetheKurious]

[compared2what?]

...certain individuals...

Hey, I learned a new euphemism today!

RI bullies

You missed one. Jew-lover.
__________________

On a more serious tip, if anyone ever thinks that I'm intimidating, coercing, abusing or being cruel to others who are weaker and smaller than myself -- or, ftm, to others, period -- please tell me.

No doubt you would be ecstatic if I were to descend to this level of discourse. Sorry, it's not going to happen -- resorting to such tactics is a tacit admission of failure, of moral and intellectual bankruptcy. They discredit only the one who uses them, and the ones who approve of them.

^^That's bullying.

Seriously. Where on this thread have I ever said that I was better than another? Or that I won, or that they were losers? Or tried to disenfranchise, humiliate or demean them as globally bad, untrustworthy people, who should be treated as The Enemy, because I said so?

I almost want to start a poll.

That's not a bad idea. It might give people who don't want to get caught in the crossfire here a chance to speak.

Personally, I'd like to hear from Jeff. And that's not because I expect him to excuse me for calling the Palestinian Prom Queen a silly bitch, either. I mean, how could he?

It's because I'd like to hear what he has to say about Atzmon.

[compared2what?]

I mean, could there POSSIBLY be anyone on the board who is unaware that Alice makes and enforces the rules according to which it's acceptable to talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict around here? Or that she's ceaselessly, boundlessly punitive to those who don't follow them to the minutest letter or the law?

I'd like to hear from them, if so.

I'm not complaining, mind you. I'm actually sympathetic to Alice, overall. But I really, really object to this pretense that there's a pro-Israel gang of bullies roaming these threads. It's not true.

And it's also not fair that AD, in particular, has to be subjected to both vicious bullying and accusations that he's a bully.

So if it's not necessary, it would really be nice to see a little less of it.

[Simulist]

I almost want to start a poll.

That's not a bad idea. It might give people who don't want to get caught in the crossfire here a chance to speak.

Yes, it might. In fact, it would be nice if the OP in this thread could be amended to include a poll, since I doubt that anyone really wants a second thread on ole Gil.

If a poll actually happens, it would be nice to include a choice in that poll for those of us who think that Gilad Atzmon is not only "antisemitic" — clearly and of course reprehensibly — but also that he is notably dishonest and a probable provocateur.

Some of his words are so indefensible that they serve only to diminish anyone who might choose (to try) to defend them. Or him.

[Project Willow]

Edited to remove unhelpful commentary.

[compared2what?]

I almost want to start a poll.

That's not a bad idea. It might give people who don't want to get caught in the crossfire here a chance to speak.

Yes, it might. In fact, it would be nice if the OP in this thread could be amended to include a poll, since I doubt that anyone really wants a second thread on ole Gil.

If a poll actually happens, it would be nice to include a choice in that poll for those of us who think that Gilad Atzmon is not only "antisemitic" — clearly and of course reprehensibly — but also that he is notably dishonest and a probable provocateur.

That was my original take on it, but -- to be fair -- on further consideration, I upgraded him to "notably dishonest and a possible provocateur." Assuming that the implication is that he's a professional provocateur, I mean. Because he is one, effectively, irrespective of intent.

But just in the interests of striving always to err on the side of humanism: He could just be a regular old blowhard with Daddy issues who happened to find a niche market for his rage, or something of that sort. You know the type.

[slimmouse]

This is off topic, but incredibly pertinent in my view.

In the best part of 7 years posting here and reading here, I have to say that AD is about the most consistently and visibly disingenuous poster Ive ever seen.

If I truly could be bothered I would try and recall the number of unanswered questions Ive posed. But I cant. That isnt to say, that suddenly he can claim that others are guilty of such a charge. Talk about in yer face hypocrisy.

Couldnt help sneaking Icke into the discussion either could you AD ?

Heres a thought for you AD. Only those of us who accept these mother fucking stupid labels can abide by their "rules".

Atzmon is exposing in an extremely profound and explicit way what happens when we follow and believe in those stupid fucking rules and labels. Thats why hes such a danger, but you dont get that do you. Its all "antisemitism" to you isnt it ?

Heres what I think -

BELIEVE WHAT YOU LIKE, BUT STOP KILLING PEOPLE BASED ON YOUR OWN STUPID RULES.

How does this NOT apply to what is happening in Palestine AD ? Give it your best shot . I dare you to answer a question for once.

So, if you dont like that critique, you might care to fashion a different view, if you have the understanding to actually do so.

But no, lets stick to the "rules"

Copy and paste, detract, deflect. Its like the Hasbara handbook written large. And it goes across the spectrum of topics that IMHO RI should be adressing in a sober fashion.

Ive had my scrapes with many, but would probably enjoy a drink with you all. Hell, even you Jack ( assuming you didnt skip over this one too )

But not AD I dont think. Not ever. I once got a ban for telling him/her/ it where to go. Best time I ever served. ( OK its the only time I ever served) but ya know.

[Simulist]

While it's perfectly valid, even necessary, to proclaim, rather forcefully, when someone's views are unacceptable, abhorrent even, where were those proclamations 5, 6 years ago? Am I missing something?

It feels rather like people are trying to destroy what little sense of community is left on this board, with a helping of distrust and projection, coming from all sides.

The effects of such stridently differing opinions, as are evident throughout this discussion, seem to have had some unfortunate side-effects, I agree.

But if someone were actually trying to destroy community, I'd venture a guess that they might use a variation of the old COINTELPRO technique involving back-channel correspondence to undermine it, rather than facing off so directly — and honestly — as we've seen in this thread.

[compared2what?]

While it's perfectly valid, even necessary, to proclaim, rather forcefully, when someone's views are unacceptable, abhorrent even, where were those proclamations 5, 6 years ago? Am I missing something?

It feels rather like people are trying to destroy what little sense of community is left on this board, with a helping of distrust and projection, coming from all sides.

I lost patience and made one obviously out-of-bounds post. And I'm not seeking to minimize or excuse that, at all. So please feel free to read me out for it to whatever degree you think is merited, if you want. But if you've seen any other instances of unfair fighting on my part, I'd be much, much more grateful to you for condemning (or whatever) them.

I want to know about them, if there are any. In short.

[American Dream]

This is off topic, but incredibly pertinent in my view.
In the best part of 7 years posting here and reading here, I have to say that AD is about the most consistently and visibly disingenuous poster Ive ever seen.

Surely, we can all trust slimmouse...

[slimmouse]

This is off topic, but incredibly pertinent in my view.
In the best part of 7 years posting here and reading here, I have to say that AD is about the most consistently and visibly disingenuous poster Ive ever seen.

Surely, we can all trust slimmouse...

Cartoon break and IP confirmation over. Im still here.

And the answer to my question is AD ?

Let me repeat for you lest you forgot.

Heres what I think -

BELIEVE WHAT YOU LIKE, BUT STOP KILLING PEOPLE BASED ON YOUR OWN STUPID PIG IGNORANT, HUMANIST DEFYING RULES AND BELIEFS. ( expanded for further clarity)

How does this NOT apply to what is happening in Palestine AD ?

[Searcher08]

I mean, could there POSSIBLY be anyone on the board who is unaware that Alice makes and enforces the rules according to which it's acceptable to talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict around here? Or that she's ceaselessly, boundlessly punitive to those who don't follow them to the minutest letter or the law?
I'd like to hear from them, if so.
I'm not complaining, mind you. I'm actually sympathetic to Alice, overall. But I really, really object to this pretense that there's a pro-Israel gang of bullies roaming these threads. It's not true.
And it's also not fair that AD, in particular, has to be subjected to both vicious bullying and accusations that he's a bully.
So if it's not necessary, it would really be nice to see a little less of it.

On the other hand... there is the mirror image of what you wrote.

I mean, could there POSSIBLY be anyone on the board who is unaware that AD makes and enforces the rules according to which it's acceptable to talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict around here? Or that he's ceaselessly, boundlessly punitive to those who don't follow them to the minutest letter or the law?
I'd like to hear from them, if so.
I'm not complaining, mind you. I'm actually sympathetic to AD, overall. But I really, really object to this pretense that there's a anti-Semite gang of bullies roaming these threads. It's not true.
And it's also not fair that Alice, in particular, has to be subjected to both vicious bullying and accusations that she's a bully.
So if it's not necessary, it would really be nice to see a little less of it

I think I need to say something about that - called a racist and anti-semite and a nazi because I object to endless Greenstein copypasta and then being called a vicious bully because I object to

a) someone's LACK of personal participation in the thread - instead participation by proxy
Why? Because in the past they have explicitly and firmly told me they DO NOT AGREE with what they have posted, because sometimes they just post stuff they think is interesting - but in this thread do not make it clear what they believe!

b) the fact that posters against Greenstein are accused of 'having no arguments' despite lots of websites referenced as to the excommunication campaign within the Palestinian movement. When Greenstein posts are dissected, no response except repeats of, or more Greenstein.

c) The fact that when asked about no posts related to ADL, AIPAC, JINSA blahblahblah - nothing
It is like calling out down an infinite well.

After watching the Finklestein documentary and seeing the exact same arguments used, and the same tactics used against him and Atzmon, although they may say very different things, have really shifted my interest to the 'response of the system' and what this complex system is.

Throw the question open - do you see no difference in what is happening to each of these people Atzmon and Finklestein?

Because for you and Cuda to claim Atzmon has freedom of speech, is like the guy in the Finklestein doc who said "Finklestein has freedom of speech - look at all the books he's published!" The JDO are seen as far right thugs, but Greenstein gets a free pass?

Nah.