Texas daycare groomed kids for sex parties

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Postby nathan28 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:44 pm

lightningBugout wrote:My take on Rossen's paper was simply that he is a bad writer with poorly developed analytic skills and limited research ability. It is, after all, an MA thesis. The fact that IPT re-published tells me little about him and much more about their willingness to use anything they can get their hands on (like subpar research) to make their case.

Many people, myself included, think the IPT is nothing more than a front group. Can you post a ref to their being based on a farm? Incidentally someone told me earlier today that the Minnesota area is a "hotbed" of sra/military weirdness....Who knows?


I grabbed the address under which IPT's site was registered. Then I used google to look at the satellite photograph. There's nothing there.
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Postby lightningBugout » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:51 pm

You've just given me my favorite "oh shit!" moment in recent history. Will you PM me the address?
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Postby biaothanatoi » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:22 am

IPT is Ralph Underwager's old business. He and his wife Wakefield had a one-stop-shop for people accused of sexual abuse from the early 80s until Underwager died a well-deserved death in 2003.

The way that IPT worked was that, when you were accused of raping a child, you showed up at the IPt and you paid Underwager tens of thousands of dollars. After signing a contract saying that you would pay Underwager's costs if he was sued for lying in court on your behalf, Underwager and his wife offered a range of services, in particular:

(a) pre-trial consultation, including the development of your defense and media strategy
(b) Wakefield would administer a battery of psychological "tests" that always magically "proved" that you did not fit the psychological "profile" of a paedophile
(c) Underwager would act as an expert witness in your defense, where he attacked the credibility of all forensic interviews with children or women complaining of sexual abuse.

If you go through the author list of Underwager's fake "journal", Issues in Child Abuse Accusations, many (if not most) of the authors are professional defense experts. That is, they made their income, like Underwager, acting as consultants and expert witnesses for people accused of sexual abuse. Generally, they used psychological research findings to contest the credibility of women and children's eyewitness accounts of rape - they are called "eyewitness experts".

The most prominent "eyewitness experts" are Elizabeth Loftus and Richard Ofshe, both of whom have acted for hundreds of men accused of raping women and children. It's very lucrative - Loftus would have made over a million dollars, potentially over two million, since she first began acting as an eyewitness expert in 1975.

In the 80s, as prosecutions for child sexual abuse began to increase, testifying in court for people accused of sexual abuse proved to be a steady income stream for people with psychology degrees who didn't get the marks to become clinical psychs. A whole niche industry built up in the States. (Didn't happen in Australia, thankfully, because we don't permit eyewitness evidence in court - American courts are less likely to now as well.)

Issues in Child Abuse Accusations was basically the industry rag for eyewitness experts, where they advertised their services to people accused of sexual abuse by writing very sympathetic "journal" articles. The review panel for the "journal" included Prof LeRoy Schultz, whose academic work claimed that sex between men and boys was “constructive, nurturing or neutral" - but, presumably, never harmful.

Underwager was a master at constructing a facade of scientific documentation and terminology to protect people accused of sexual abuse. Despite the pro-paedophile slant of the articles, lots of stupid undergrads still quote Issues in Child Abuse Accusations because (a) it's available for free online, and (b) it mimics academic format and style.

I also suspect that this content has enduring appeal because it tells people what they want to hear - that sexual abuse isn't prevalent, or particularly harmful, and that women and children who complain of sexual abuse are often lying. This is sometimes a more palatable message then coming to grips with the frequency, and the harms, of sexual violence.
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Postby OP ED » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:45 am

Can someone tell me why it is "weird" to have 50-100 people show up at some sort of organized criminal gathering?

Its not like they all neccessarily lived in that little town. I drive 300 miles to work a couple times a month. I could easily imagine sickos going much farther to get their kicks.
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update on small towns

Postby geogeo » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:26 am

First of all, what is the shock and horror here? You all act as if this doesn't go on -- it is much more common than you think; do you really live in such a bubble that you think it's a small minority who gets involved in this stuff?

I've lived in small towns across the world -- on four continents, in distinct cultures, and I've not lived in one yet where the most depraved stuff went on. Just in my home town in northeast US, there was a major pedophilia 'scandal' involving the elite in town that was hushed up and never made the news. This is just a nowhere town, one of thousands. I always thought it was unique. Though there wasn't a general local taste for pre-teen girls, anyone less than 18 was 'jailbait' and was coveted--a real score, and the cops were often in on it. The parents were often 'swinging', and the kids were screwing each other like rabbits, but it always amazed me how saintly people acted, and how repressed it all was. Were there 100 adults watching children perform sex acts? not that I know of, but the point is that this more likely than not would have been a 'big deal' in that milieu. Like I said, I thought my hometown was damned.

But in Asia, I saw entire villages given over to pedophilia, and an entire society more or less complacent in the face of the most unbelievable exploitation, both by local people, US military, and foreign sex tourists.

Now, in the bible Nelt of the US South, I see where an enormous number of registered sex offenders, and sex offenders on the news, are African American men, and the girls in question are sometimes, though not often, below ten; additionally, girls as young as nine are growing breasts and developing, and the justification then becomes, as they say in certain Latin American towns "pues, esta lista!" (she's ready).

As for the whites here, they have an active sex club--and they're good Baptists, of course--under cover of a local fraternal lodge. Homosexual haters indulging their homosexual fantasies, wife swapping, even bring the kids night! (big supper!). Now, this is one of the most religious parts of America--hell, the world. But one of the standing (horrifying) jokes involves why guys become youth counsellors and other such positions of authority among children in religious settings--affording them maximum contact with children. Get this--it's a joke, and the religious authorities of many of these churches, white and black churches, are the leading and most powerful figures here. And people think it's a joke! Catholics the same way--despite the priest scandals, and this is still going on, the parents are trusting sheep, the priests are cynical and sick-acting bastards; I've got a certain 'pedophiliac' radar (being a rather paranoid father) and some of these priests talk and act like the ones on the documentaries.

My point--Mineola is the norm, people. The world is a repressed and sick fucking place. My reaction to the news was horror, as always, but no sense that this was anything abnormal for American culture, small town or big city. The sickness is in 'our' minds and the structures of our society that are so Fascist and conformist. Remember, also, that in most cases no one gives a fuck about what appens in small towns, unless there is an abiding reason (blackmail, whatever), and often because the cops are involved--since the whole reason to become a cop, whether in New Orleans or small town wherever, is to have a chance to use the law to your benefit. Corrupt cops is also a standard, a given and a norm everywhere in the world.
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Postby sunny » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:26 am

About 20 years ago in my hometown deep in The Heart of Dixie, population 500, a grandpa and one of his sons was convicted of molesting all of the grandchildren from the ages of three until they were around 10. (I think there were about a dozen of them) The kids were grown by the time they came forward and you would not believe, though maybe you would, the hatred and villification directed at them for telling the truth. No one would believe it until the conviction and there are still those who refuse to take it seriously. The local "paper" never printed a word or even a whisper about the whole thing.
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you said it

Postby geogeo » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:09 pm

status quo
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Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:39 pm

biaothanatoi wrote:
Oude Pekela in 1986-88


You reek, Pierre. All of your arguments - how you structure them, even their content - stink of the pro-paedophile movement of the 80s.

The Oude Pekela investigation was sparked by the disclosures of a boy with persistent anal bleeding, and up to 100 children disclosed abuse in the case.

Paidika-connected "journalists" like Benjamin Rossen leapt on the case as evidence of a "sex abuse hysteria", and Rossen's version was widely promoted by Underwager in the States.

This is despite the fact that the government's investigation into the case supported the children's account of abuse, although the matter did not proceed to criminal prosecution.


So is this ok to just have people accuse me of being a pedo or at least propedo? Is this how the caring well-meaning people on this board behave? The rules say it's forbidden to call someone a disinfo agent, but when I make a very reasonable case that this jury conviction to my opinion leaves much to be desired, staying within the boundaries of civil discourse and stating very clearly that I'm against child abuse of any kind, it's okay to label me a sex-offender?

The reason I came to my opnion was a series of possibly partial newspaperreports which i all read before replying. To me they seemed poorly written and smelled of hysteria. I'm not denying at all that child abuse exist, it's very real. What bothered me was the sense of tacky sensationalism that has some of the people here getting happily worked up about another horrorstory like flies to shit. When the truth is horrible enough as it is. It doesn't need tacky americana attached to it. It's damaging to the real problems, damaging to children, damaging to people falsely accused.

You can all go fuck yourselves now, this board sucks.
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Postby lightningBugout » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:37 pm

Pierre what do you mean by "tacky americana?"
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Postby Jeff » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:39 pm

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote: it's okay to label me a sex-offender?


No, but I don't think anyone's done that.
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Postby nathan28 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:26 pm

OP ED wrote:Can someone tell me why it is "weird" to have 50-100 people show up at some sort of organized criminal gathering?

Its not like they all neccessarily lived in that little town. I drive 300 miles to work a couple times a month. I could easily imagine sickos going much farther to get their kicks.


It's only weird because the half-assed journalists don't seem to have, haven't or won't find one of these people. That's basic journalism: get and report everybody's story. If the kids say 50 people watched, find one of the supposed fifty and get her story: is she a swinger? were the kids making stuff up? what was going on? As it stands not one of the stories has even had anything in this vein on background or even deep background. In a town of 5000 rumors and gossip can't be that hard to find. Put on a pair of cheap jeans, a flannel shirt, and sit down and eavesdrop in a dinner. For christ's sake, get the leads from the newspaper editor, the office was across the damn street.

Geogeo, the reason I find this unusual is the claim that it was organized. I'm well aware of the actual mores of small-town America (e.g., "if there's grass on the field, play ball"), but i find it kind of odd that these folks would actually have a clubhouse.
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Postby lightningBugout » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:54 pm

"Geogeo, the reason I find this unusual is the claim that it was organized."

n28 - not meant to disagree with what you've said but I just wanted to point out that this is, in my own experience, what it all comes down to for many many people. I respect you and your points and I don't lump you in with everyone who disputes or challenges the truth of stories like these.

but psychologically, alot of people seem to get really uncomfortable with the idea that people can organize to do abominable things. that so many adults could act without conscience in each other's presence.

i've come to the conclusion its very possible - the pedo philosophy often times presents itself as non-damaging and misunderstood. witness the shit quoted in the pedo-sexual post: they want to emphasize the healthy sexuality of what they do. children should be "able to make up their own minds," etc.

if they are not beating the kids up or doing violent stuff, alot of them seem to (very erroneously) believe they are causing no harm.
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edit: off topic

Postby sw » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:10 pm

edit post: this was off topic so I just deleted.
Last edited by sw on Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nathan28 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:17 pm

@LightningBugout:

Part of it is my frustration w/ the media for never, never seeming to follow these leads. I'm close to certain that if there's a pile of ashes made from clown outfits and videotapes that someone was up to some heinous shit. I mean if anything you'd think that "swing club busted" would make for some quality reading for sensationalism alone, then when you add in "forcing children into sex acts", you've got serious Lifetime channel based-on-a-true-story material.

So where is the story?

Part of it, I believe, is the sanctimonious milleau we live in. Accuse someone of some crime, repeat it in the press and they're guilty. Story's closed. Just like how 19 Muslims hijacked planes and threw them into the WTC and pentagon: story's closed.

I don't want to know what and how (frankly, that's all we've got and I don't want to hear much more), I want to know who, when, where and why, because this is a bigger story than that. So by no means do I intend to be issuing an opinion that concurs with something despicable like "oh, but they children were performing for their own needs"
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Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:45 pm

Tacky americana i mean making genuine problems and abuse into a stephen king movie. People do awful things sometimes, sexually exploiting children happens to such a large degree in some parts of the world that you could label it the norm there, that's all real and really sad. However this is not the case in smalltown texas, people know there that sex with underaged children is a crime and not the norm, and that's why the whole story of children being trained in a sort of sexkindergarten to perform once a week in costume for 50-100 people for cash in a swingersclub- well just the number of people alone makes it uncredible, the reporting of that tyler newspaper stinks -it didnt even have anything to do with a daycare!- and the rest of the details make it mocking and nasty yes, that was all in the headline already, i did not put it there and i do not reek- and thats what i reacted to, the (very) cheap sensationalism of it all.

In the meantime there's still no evidence of this story, the fact that the children allegedly had to train their performance on puppets points in the way of their investigators/counselors. It's one thing wanting to believe, against better judgement, in UFO's, a poster of satanic rituals with "I want to believe" written under it is less innocent. It's a retarded witchhunty mentality imo, and more importantly can lead to real damage.
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