What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

[8bitagent]

Man claims his new age farm gets regular UFO and orb visits:

[Peregrine]

Read again what Shaver said about our being denied out ancient science. But if you're expecting a cogent and rational theory I'll disappoint you. Just a general philosophical position.

I've had a bad habit of skimming posts as of late because I've been so busy with other stuff, so I will have to read what Shaver said. And as to your theory, I wouldn't perceive it as irrational necessarily, I find other's philosophical points of view to be quite interesting & they make for good discussion. Not disappointed at all!

I'm convinced, however, of the ancientness of human life. The evidence, the forbidden archaeology and so on, shows one of two things is true: humanity is old or the earth is young. I'll go with the first. I believe humanity may have been the first living thing in the universe. Almost certainly, between ancient cataclysms, mankind travelled between the stars. I believe in the power of mankind, collectively.

I've always been fascinated with unusal & inexplicable archaeology. Someone recommended the book Chariots of the Gods to me, but have yet to read it. I've heard it's kind of a hokey book, too, but still interests me. I do remember reading something a few years ago on the 'net about some caves that were discovered & the unusual findings in them. I think it was somewhere in the US, the mid South West if I remember correctly. What fascinated me most with it was that the archaeologists that were there were quite spooked by their findings, one particular situation where they came across a room, or cave where the air was very heavy, it was an unusually inky black & they were quite unnerved by just being at the entrance. I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking the article, damned if I can remember what they actually found, but it was odd... Perhaps someone might know what I'm talking about..?

Knowledge lost by mankind after some catastrophe, cut loose from human consciousness, may now float loose in the ether, occasionally appearing in our realm to put ideas into peoples heads. Perhaps humanity is psychic, ebbs and flows.

That's a rather interesting perspective, I've always believed that we have lost some very interesting technology along the way, myself.

[Iamwhomiam]

Chariots of Fire is worth reading, if your new to anomalous archaeology. However, with regard to your question... more can be found here, from a 1909 Phoenix Gazette article about an Egyptian tomb being found in the Grand Canyon

[Stephen Morgan]

I'd steer clear of Chariots of the Gods as von Daniken is known to have told a few fibs in his time. I've got and would recommend Cremo's Hidden History of the Human Race, Steiger's World's Before Our Own, Tomas's We Are Not The First, even Berlitz's Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds and Kolosimo's Timeless Earth, if you like the old paperbacks. Bits and pieces elsewhere, too.

[elfismiles]

I'd steer clear of Chariots of the Gods as von Daniken is known to have told a few fibs in his time. I've got and would recommend Cremo's Hidden History of the Human Race, Steiger's World's Before Our Own, Tomas's We Are Not The First, even Berlitz's Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds and Kolosimo's Timeless Earth, if you like the old paperbacks. Bits and pieces elsewhere, too.

Ditto and steer clear of Shaver's work except for understanding the mythology of a schizophrenic's perception of persecution from the underworld:

Wednesday, July 07, 2010
MAURY ISLAND NO LONGER A MYSTERY: A UFO HOAX EXPOSED! by Anthony Bragalia

Copyright 2010, InterAmerica, Inc. (Permission needed to print this in its entirety, but Fair Use and blog links are allowed as usual)

...


EXTREMELY RARE PHOTO OF "DERO" CREATURES SEEN BY CRISMAN, DEPICTED IN SHAVER'S "ROCK BOOK"

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CON MEN RICHARD SHAVER AND RAY PALMER: RUNNING A CIRCUS


http://ufocon.blogspot.com/2010/07/maur ... -hoax.html

[Simulist]

That is an extremely interesting analysis, Elfismiles.

(And, as an aside, Ray Palmer looks a little like the dancing midget from Twin Peaks, who is also called "The Man from Another Place." I wonder if David Lynch knew of Ray Palmer when he had us all wondering, "Who killed Laura Palmer?" God, I'm starting to sound like Hugh... I need to cut back on the garmonbozia.)

[LilyPatToo]

I first found reference to the Maury Island incident being a hoax here, in an article by Philip Coppens: The strangest UFO encounter… or a hoax?. He's written about a number of high-profile UFO cases here, under the heading "Memes." To me, one of the most interesting things about the UFO meme is its proselytism quotient--like a lot of other people, apparently, I've been receptive to its transmission for as long as I can recall and am drawn to others who actively proselytize it. The only other meme category I'm aware of that's similar is religion, particularly the many New Age versions. And that's made me prone to gullibility in both categories and also made me a target for people whose need to believe exceeds mine at some point. This is the only board I've found where both these subjects are discussed objectively and where I'm not the only person trying sincerely to discern the truths at the heart of all the meme-generation and mythologizing that seems to ensue when either religion or UFOs comes up in conversation. I know from personal experiences that it's not ALL emotionally-unbalanced hoaxers or juicy disinfo or the apparently in-built need to believe, but what it is isn't yet clear to me...too damn much mud in the water.

LilyPat

[justdrew]

... I've been receptive to its transmission for as long as I can recall and am drawn to others who actively proselytize it. The only other meme category I'm aware of that's similar is religion...

sports? football? any enthusiasm is like that isn't it?

[LilyPatToo]

Since I completely lack the Sports Gene, I honestly don't know for certain, justdrew Looking at the sports-obsessed people I know (and I know a bunch of 'em), I don't see the same religious-like fervor that I've observed in myself and in my friends when UFOs are the focus. For one example, I've never known even the most rabid football fan to get deeply offended if I opt out of a passionate discussion of the game, but I've lost friends over my questioning of UFO/aliens-related incidents...even though I wanted very much to believe and was just seeking better/more accurate information. But that defensive response is (I think) pretty common when it's a religion in question. There's a need to believe that I haven't found in the sports fanatics I know well.

LilyPat

[Simulist]

... I've been receptive to its transmission for as long as I can recall and am drawn to others who actively proselytize it. The only other meme category I'm aware of that's similar is religion...

sports? football? any enthusiasm is like that isn't it?

I think you're on to something about this, JustDrew.

The "need to believe" is pretty common, and proselytizing that "need to believe" is pretty common, too.

Some who have attended Apple conventions would probably attest to that. Some who have observed the quasi religious fervor surrounding certain figures like Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips might attest to that, too. It's not surprising that the UFO phenomenon is vulnerable to similar hype.

Note: I use Apple computers, I think MKULTRA was real and that it has far-reaching implications today (although I consider Cathy O'Brien to be pretty full of it), and I consider many of the phenomena surrounding UFOs to be not only real but also deeply important. I also think there are people who readily exploit the fervor surrounding all of the above.

[LilyPatToo]

Simulist said:

The "need to believe" is pretty common, and proselytizing that "need to believe" is pretty common, too.

Some who have attended Apple conventions would probably attest to that. Some who have observed the quasi religious fervor surrounding certain figures like Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips might attest to that, too. It's not surprising that the UFO phenomenon is vulnerable to similar hype.

Note: I use Apple computers, I think MKULTRA was real and that it has far-reaching implications today (although I consider Cathy O'Brien to be pretty full of it), and I consider many of the phenomena surrounding UFOs to be not only real but also deeply important. I also think there are people who readily exploit the fervor surrounding all of the above.

Yes! That's another good example--Apple loyalty. I'm a Mac person, married to a Mac geek and have noted with interest how this loyalty contributes to my image of myself. As did UFO beliefs, for many, many years after I saw one. And I've attended conventions where there were lots of UFO-related speakers and other conspiracy topic "big names" present too, including mind control survivors, researchers and their supporters, some of whom were true fanatics, hanging upon every word spoken by their idols. It honestly felt to me like the "received wisdom" response in fundies--uncritical and at the same time absolutely vital to the hearer's identity.

"Selfing" is interesting, isn't it? And there's no shortage of exploiters observing and using the apparently hard-wired impulse to accrue attention and, sometime, riches, to themselves. Some may be working, wittingly or unwittingly, for would-be mass mind controllers, governmental or other, but I have a feeling that many of them would be doing it for free if no one was paying them. Which makes me think of narcissists compulsively garnering "narcissistic supply" as they manipulate their chosen "marks" by feeding that need to believe and to refine their identities by those chosen beliefs.

LilyPat

[Simulist]

I think narcissists would be naturals for fostering meme-making hype in almost any field of endeavor.

It is interesting though to note at least one of the messages that seems to predominate: the overwhelming power of supposed alien or governmental forces, against which the individual is often said to be powerless.

[LilyPatToo]

Yes, powerlessness and surrender to a powerful Other are found in one segment of the UFO/aliens community and also in many religions. Good point. I'm convinced that if we can just understand this part of the puzzle better, it will help in sussing out the fishier elements of this subject. If only those could be identified and placed to one side, then I keep hoping that there would be breakthroughs in understanding the underlying reality of the phenomena associated with saucers.

LilyPat

[Simulist]

I've become rather jaded over the years in that I find many, many of these things to be "fishy."

While religions and particular elements of the UFO community certainly do tend to promote the power-sapping meme of individual powerlessness in the face of overwhelming external forces, they are not alone. I think this also applies unquestionably to the aforementioned Cathy O'Brien and to some of the disinformation she promotes, for example.

While I consider that powerlessness is sometimes a fact of life — especially in the face of powerful predators — I am also deeply suspicious of the motivations of some of the people (and groups of people) whose interests are served by promoting the theme of individual powerlessness, even when they're using partial truths and often substantial actual truths (and easily-ridiculed actual truths, at that) in order to do it.

Some things can both be true and also exceedingly useful to very bad people.

[8bitagent]

Just saw the UFO Hunters episode about the Cash Landstrom encounter in 1980. Even from the special on this event from years before this more recent 2008 special, it was clear this was a government black budget craft that had nothing to do with any sort of paranormal/interdimensional craft.

Here in the final part, it's pretty clear it was an experimental black budget craft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puzim8yE ... re=related

The radiation, the fact shinooks were following it from the get go, etc points to this. Hell I bet the government wanted people to think it was "alien" to avoid paying the lawsuit or admitting any sort of wrongdoing. The government pulls this crap though. Like those people who got sick and died from working at Area 51, that Clinton helped coverup.