Nuclear Meltdown Watch

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 23 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:31 am

Julia W wrote:I've been looking for a reliable source to determine when/if to start taking the KI tablets. This may be one-
http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm
still trying to figure out their maps (I think just look at the colors/numbers in the circles- not the colors of the countries- that was throwing me off b/c it looked like russia/cuba was 'hot'- though Russia may be). Scroll to the bottom for Japan info link (currently, their one source in Tokyo is not responding). Seven circles in continental US right now. Don't see Alaska or Hawaii on there. Nor any other part of the world, besides the link to Japan which is not responding.

They monitor radiation levels, right now 1pm PST 3/13/11, they say above 130 cpm's would be unusual.
San Francisco is around 20-45 cpms... been watching it jump around for ten minutes, I guess there's a lot of variability.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/menopause/117858 This info may also be of use, as a supplement to the KI tablets.


http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/ki.asp

What is Potassium Iodide (KI)?

Potassium iodide (also called KI) is a salt of stable (not radioactive) iodine. Stable iodine is an important chemical needed by the body to make thyroid hormones. Most of the stable iodine in our bodies comes from the food we eat. KI is stable iodine in a medicine form. This fact sheet from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) gives you some basic information about KI. It explains what you should think about before you or a family member takes KI.
What does KI do?

Following a radiological or nuclear event, radioactive iodine may be released into the air and then be breathed into the lungs. Radioactive iodine may also contaminate the local food supply and get into the body through food or through drink. When radioactive materials get into the body through breathing, eating, or drinking, we say that “internal contamination” has occurred. In the case of internal contamination with radioactive iodine, the thyroid gland quickly absorbs this chemical. Radioactive iodine absorbed by the thyroid can then injure the gland. Because non-radioactive KI acts to block radioactive iodine from being taken into the thyroid gland, it can help protect this gland from injury.
What KI cannot do

Knowing what KI cannot do is also important. KI cannot prevent radioactive iodine from entering the body. KI canprotect only the thyroid from radioactive iodine, not other parts of the body. KI cannot reverse the health effects caused by radioactive iodine once damage to the thyroid has occurred. KI cannotprotect the body from radioactive elements other than radioactive iodine—if radioactive iodine is not present, taking KI is not protective.
How does KI work?

The thyroid gland cannot tell the difference between stable and radioactive iodine and will absorb both. KI works by blocking radioactive iodine from entering the thyroid. When a person takes KI, the stable iodine in the medicine gets absorbed by the thyroid. Because KI contains so much stable iodine, the thyroid gland becomes “full” and cannot absorb any more iodine—either stable or radioactive—for the next 24 hours.

Iodized table salt also contains iodine; iodized table salt contains enough iodine to keep most people healthy under normal conditions. However, table salt does not contain enough iodine to block radioactive iodine from getting into your thyroid gland. You should not use table salt as a substitute for KI.
How well does KI work?

Knowing that KI may not give a person 100% protection against radioactive iodine is important. How well KI blocks radioactive iodine depends on

* how much time passes between contamination with radioactive iodine and the taking of KI (the sooner a person takes KI, the better),
* how fast KI is absorbed into the blood, and
* the total amount of radioactive iodine to which a person is exposed.

Who should take KI?

The thyroid glands of a fetus and of an infant are most at risk of injury from radioactive iodine. Young children and people with low stores of iodine in their thyroid are also at risk of thyroid injury.

Infants (including breast-fed infants): Infants need to be given the recommended dosage of KI for babies (see How much KI should I take?). The amount of KI that gets into breast milk is not enough to protect breast-fed infants from exposure to radioactive iodine. The proper dose of KI given to a nursing infant will help protect it from radioactive iodine that it breathes in or drinks in breast milk.

Children: The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recommends that all children internally contaminated with (or likely to be internally contaminated with) radioactive iodine take KI, unless they have known allergies to iodine. Children from newborn to 18 years of age are the most sensitive to the potentially harmful effects of radioactive iodine.

Young Adults: The FDA recommends that young adults (between the ages of 18 and 40 years) internally contaminated with (or likely to be internally contaminated with) radioactive iodine take the recommended dose of KI. Young adults are less sensitive to the effects of radioactive iodine than are children.

Pregnant Women: Because all forms of iodine cross the placenta, pregnant women should take KI to protect the growing fetus. However, pregnant women should take only one dose of KI following internal contamination with (or likely internal contamination with) radioactive iodine.

Breastfeeding Women: Women who are breastfeeding should take only one dose of KI if they have been internally contaminated with (or are likely to be internally contaminated with) radioactive iodine. Because radioactive iodine quickly gets into breast milk, CDC recommends that women internally contaminated with (or are likely to be internally contaminated with) radioactive iodine stop breastfeeding and feed their child baby formula or other food if it is available. If breast milk is the only food available for an infant, nursing should continue.

Adults: Adults older than 40 years should not take KI unless public health or emergency management officials say that contamination with a very large dose of radioactive iodine is expected. Adults older than 40 years have the lowest chance of developing thyroid cancer or thyroid injury after contamination with radioactive iodine. They also have a greater chance of having allergic reactions to KI.
When should I take KI?

After a radiologic or nuclear event, local public health or emergency management officials will tell the public if KI or other protective actions are needed. For example, public health officials may advise you to remain in your home, school, or place of work (this is known as “shelter-in-place”) or to evacuate. You may also be told not to eat some foods and not to drink some beverages until a safe supply can be brought in from outside the affected area. Following the instructions given to you by these authorities can lower the amount of radioactive iodine that enters your body and lower the risk of serious injury to your thyroid gland.
How much KI should I take?

The FDA has approved two different forms of KI—tablets and liquid—that people can take by mouth after a nuclear radiation emergency. Tablets come in two strengths, 130 milligram (mg) and 65 mg. The tablets are scored so they may be cut into smaller pieces for lower doses. Each milliliter (mL) of the oral liquid solution contains 65 mg of KI.
According to the FDA, the following doses are appropriate to take after internal contamination with (or likely internal contamination with) radioactive iodine:

* Adults should take 130 mg (one 130 mg tablet OR two 65 mg tablets OR two mL of solution).
* Women who are breastfeeding should take the adult dose of 130 mg.
* Children between 3 and 18 years of age should take 65 mg (one 65 mg tablet OR 1 mL of solution). Children who are adult size (greater than or equal to 150 pounds) should take the full adult dose, regardless of their age.
* Infants and children between 1 month and 3 years of age should take 32 mg (½ of a 65 mg tablet OR ½ mL of solution). This dose is for both nursing and non-nursing infants and children.
* Newborns from birth to 1 month of age should be given 16 mg (¼ of a 65 mg tablet or ¼ mL of solution). This dose is for both nursing and non-nursing newborn infants.

How often should I take KI?

A single dose of KI protects the thyroid gland for 24 hours. A one-time dose at the levels recommended in this fact sheet is usually all that is needed to protect the thyroid gland. In some cases, radioactive iodine might be in the environment for more than 24 hours. If that happens, local emergency management or public health officials may tell you to take one dose of KI every 24 hours for a few days. You should do this only on the advice of emergency management officials, public health officials, or your doctor. Avoid repeat dosing with KI for pregnant and breastfeeding women and newborn infants. Those individuals may need to be evacuated until levels of radioactive iodine in the environment fall.

Taking a higher dose of KI, or taking KI more often than recommended, does not offer more protection and can cause severe illness or death.
Medical conditions that may make it harmful to take KI

Taking KI may be harmful for some people because of the high levels of iodine in this medicine. You should not take KI if
• you know you are allergic to iodine (If you are unsure about this, consult your doctor. A seafood or shellfish allergy does not necessarily mean that you are allergic to iodine.) or
• you have certain skin disorders (such as dermatitis herpetiformis or urticaria vasculitis).

People with thyroid disease (for example, multinodular goiter, Graves’ disease, or autoimmune thyroiditis) may be treated with KI. This should happen under careful supervision of a doctor, especially if dosing lasts for more than a few days.

In all cases, talk to your doctor if you are not sure whether to take KI.
What are the possible risks and side effects of KI?

When public health or emergency management officials tell the public to take KI following a radiologic or nuclear event, the benefits of taking this drug outweigh the risks. This is true for all age groups. Some general side effects caused by KI may include intestinal upset, allergic reactions (possibly severe), rashes, and inflammation of the salivary glands.

When taken as recommended, KI causes only rare adverse health effects that specifically involve the thyroid gland. In general, you are more likely to have an adverse health effect involving the thyroid gland if you

* take a higher than recommended dose of KI,
* take the drug for several days, or
* have pre-existing thyroid disease.

Newborn infants (less than 1 month old) who receive more than one dose of KI are at particular risk for developing a condition known as hypothyroidism (thyroid hormone levels that are too low). If not treated, hypothyroidism can cause brain damage. Infants who receive KI should have their thyroid hormone levels checked and monitored by a doctor. Avoid repeat dosing of KI to newborns.
Where can I get KI?

KI is available without a prescription. You should talk to your pharmacist to get KI and for directions about how to take it correctly. Your pharmacist can sell you KI brands that have been approved by the FDA.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Crow » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:00 am

justdrew wrote:well, if the aliens are ever going to do anything, now would be a good time


I thought the same thing myself, and then wondered if that is a sign I've been reading too much conspiracy. But...what can ya do?

This MetaFilter thread seems to be inhabited by some gen-u-wine nuclear scientists (how they live with themselves, I don't know, though I guess there are even more evil jobs than that), but I found it straightforward and informative nonetheless. It gave me the feeling of "knowing something," however illusory that may be.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 23 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:40 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world ... .html?_r=2
Military Crew Said to Be Exposed to Radiation, but Officials Call Risk in U.S. Slight

The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month’s worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday.

The officials added that American helicopters flying missions about 60 miles north of the damaged reactors became coated with particulate radiation that had to be washed off.

There was no indication that any of the military personnel had experienced ill effects from the exposure. (Everyone is exposed to a small amount of natural background radiation.)

But the episodes showed that the prevailing winds were picking up radioactive material from crippled reactors in northeastern Japan. Ever since an earthquake struck Japan on Friday, the authorities worldwide have been laying plans to map where radioactive plumes might blow and determine what, if any, danger they could pose to people.

Blogs were churning with alarm. But officials insisted that unless the quake-damaged nuclear plants deteriorated into full meltdown, any radiation that reached the United States would be too weak to do any harm.

Washington had “hypothetical plots” for worst-case plume dispersal within hours of the start of the crisis, a senior official said Sunday. The aim, the official added, was “more to help Japan” than the United States, since few experts foresaw high levels of radiation reaching the West Coast.

For now, the prevailing winds over Japan were blowing eastward across the Pacific. If they continue to do so, international stations for radioactive tracking at Wake or Midway Islands might detect radiation later this week, said Annika Thunborg, a spokeswoman for an arm of the United Nations in Vienna that monitors the planet for spikes in radioactivity.

“At this point, we have not picked up anything” in detectors midway between Japan and Hawaii, Ms. Thunborg said in an interview on Sunday. “We’re talking a couple of days — nothing before Tuesday — in terms of picking something up.”

Agencies involved in the tracking efforts include the World Meteorological Organization, the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization, which runs a global network of more than 60 stations that sniff the air for radiation spikes.

In the United States, the Departments of Defense and Energy maintain large facilities and cadres of specialists for tracking airborne releases of radiation, both civilian and military.

On Sunday, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said it expected no “harmful levels of radioactivity” to move on the winds to Hawaii, Alaska or the West Coast from the reactors in Japan, “given the thousands of miles between the two countries.”

In interviews, some private nuclear experts called a windborne threat unlikely. Others urged caution.

“We’re all worrying about it,” said Robert Alvarez, a nuclear expert who, from 1993 to 1999, was a policy adviser to the secretary of energy, who runs the nation’s nuclear complex.

“It’s going to be very important,” he added, “for the Japanese and U.S. authorities to inform the public about the nature of the plumes and any need for precautionary measures.”

The plume issue has arisen before. In 1986, radiation spewing from the Chernobyl disaster in Ukraine was spread around the globe on winds and reached the West Coast in 10 days. It was judged more of a curiosity than a threat.

Since then, scientists have refined their abilities to monitor such atmospheric releases. The advances are rooted in the development of new networks of radiation detectors, flotillas of imaging satellites and the advent of supercomputers that can model the subtle complexities of the wind to draw up advanced forecasts.

With the Japanese crisis, popular apprehension has also soared.

“Concern has been raised about a massive radioactive cloud escaping and sweeping over the West Coast,” said a recent blog, recommending whole grains and health foods for fighting radiation poisoning.

On another blog, someone asked, “Should I take iodine now?” That referred to pills that can prevent poisoning from the atmospheric release of iodine-131, a radioactive byproduct of nuclear plants that the Japanese authorities have identified as escaping into the atmosphere.

While federal officials expected little danger in the United States from Japanese plumes, they were taking no chances. On Sunday, Energy Department officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the agency was working on three fronts.

One main player is the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California. Officials said they had activated its National Atmospheric Release Advisory Center, which draws on meteorologists, nuclear scientists and computer scientists to forecast plume dispersal.

Separately, energy officials said the agency was readying plans to deploy two-person monitoring and sampling teams, if necessary. The teams would travel to consulates, military installations and Navy ships to sample the air in a coordinated effort to improve plume tracking.

Finally, the department was preparing what it calls its Aerial Measuring System. Its detectors and analytical equipment can be mounted on a variety of aircraft. Officials said the equipment and monitoring team are staged out of the department’s Remote Sensing Laboratory at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, and are on two-hour call.

“We’re on top of this,” a department official said.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 23 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:43 am

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby winsomecowboy2 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:16 am

Thanks crow for the metafilter link.

It was long and got a bit cranky and folk were bemoaning one particular posters absence . 'erico'

And then she/he showed up and was soothingly level headed



"Sorry, I was asleep, and then dealing with work.

Wow, guys, WTF? We kept thing pretty nice in the thread of doom.

A few answers to a few questions.

1) Can the core undergo nuclear detonation? No. The concentration of 235U and 239Pu is far too low, there are far too many other fissionables that would prevent the full prompt-critical reaction from being sustained, and there's no inertial confinement. The hardest part about building a nuclear weapon is holding it together while it's trying to explode.

2) Can the core undergo other sorts of explosions? Very hard, but not impossible. SL-1 and Chernobyl Reactor 4 both had large steam explosions when the reaction rate jumped by a couple of orders of magnitude due to loss of control. SL-1 was an inadvertent control rod removal, Chernobyl #4 was a combination of positive void feedback, existing reactor poisons, and a bad design.

These sort of runaways are, as far as we can tell, impossible in a PWR or a BWR, which count on water as a moderator *and* coolant -- if you lose the coolant, you limit the reaction rate. As the coolant heats up, the reaction rate moderates.

BWRs and PWRs also depend on pressure to work (more pressure in a PWR, of course) -- thus, the pressure vessels are much stronger than the basic reactor vessels of graphite moderated reactors like Windscale #1 & #2, or the RBMKs at Chernobyl. You can exchange a moderate radioactive release to completly prevent this possibility -- vent steam, add water, keep the pressure low. This is basically what Fukushima #1 is doing.

3) Can we get a criticality accident? Harder, but not impossible, and actually more likely than an explosion, but you need severe core damage for it to happen. With the control rods in and coolant limited, you have a bunch of neutron absorbers in place, and with the coolant very hot, fewer prompt neutrons are being moderated into thermal neutrons, which are the ones more likely to cause a further fissioning.

But if the heat becomes extremely high, the core can melt. Liquids flow, and they'll flow down into the bottom. Intermixed with that will be bits of control rod, but it'll basically be random. Get enough fuel material together, and not enough control material, and you can reach criticality. This is often hard on people nearby. It's not an automatic thing, though -- Chernobyl #4 melted down after the explosion, but the "corium" that flowed out of the reactor and into the basement didn't go critical. This release of core material was very limited, easily contained, and while it made that building suck, it didn't do the massive damage.

The core material blown out of the top of the reactor by the steam explosion, followed by the core material carried up in the ashes of the burning graphite moderator, that's what caused the massive release of radioactive materials. If Chernobyl had just melted down and flowed into the basement, we'd have been a lot better off.

Note that the graphite fire that put this stuff up into a fly ash plume that could carry for miles won't happen here, because there's no graphite to burn.

4) Will any of these reactors run again? Depends. Fukushima 1 reactor #1, no -- even if it turns out there is very little core damage, they were going to decommission this reactor anyway. If F1#3 has a similar issue, they'll probably decommission that one as well. 4-6 are newer, and were shut down completely before the quake for maintenance, and should be fine - #6 is a new reactor, a BWR-5 rather than a BWR-4 of 2-5, or the BWR-3 that #1 is.

Shutting down #1 and #3 will cost Japan 1.24GW of power. Shutting them all down will cost them 4.69GW of power, which is a big chunk. Shutting down the four BWR-5s at Fukushima 2 would cost them another 4.4GW of power.

The big problem isn't the boric acid -- though it is an acid, and it can increase corrosion. The big problem is the chlorides in seawater. They'll need to be cleaned out before the reactor is safe to use again, and given the age of the Fukushima #1 reactors, it probably won't be worth doing so -- indeed, F1#1 is at end-of-life, anyway, and one report I saw said it was slated to be shut down permanently for decommissioning at the end of the month. There's no way they'll bother to repair it -- or even, if for some miracle, there is no core damage at all, bother to restart it.

Fun fact: The other three reactors at Chernobyl were kept running after the accident on #4. Why? They couldn't afford to lose the 3GW of power that shutting them down would have done. #2 ran until a turbine fire damaged it's power plant, and the other two were shut down at the end of the 1990s.

5) Why evacuations? Part of it, to be honest, is fear. A government think "Hmm, if I don't evacuate, and somebody gets contaminated, it will be all over the news forever." Governments also like doing something, and they can't do much at the plant proper, so an evacuation, which they can do, fits. The anti nuclear lobby has wedged it into any mind that any radiation is deadly (if so, we're all dead multiple ways after the various nuclear tests) and a government that does nothing when something bad happens is one that loses elections. See why the TSA is still around.

But there are failure modes that could result in at least short term severe releases, the biggest being a steam explosion compromising the core, and getting people away from a reactor that you don't think you have complete control over is not a bad idea. As I said before, I think the biggest problem in F1#1 is loss of sensors -- they're really not sure of the state of the reactor. If you don't know, assuming worst handleable case is a good idea.

6) Why am I not panicking? I don't automatically trust the news. It's been repeatedly filters, and when I have a Japanese Government Official Who Is Not A Nuclear Engineer talking to a Japanese report, WINANE, being translated by someone who either doesn't speak English or Japanese natively, and WINANE, then being reported by some US or UK news site by someone WINANE, then being liveblogged or tweeted by someone WINANE, and all of them get paid or renown for putting the most dramatic headlines possible on this, you should realize that all is not as it seems.

And, really, people. Worst case is a triple core compromise. Kindly go look up "atmospheric nuclear testing" for just how much radioactive material was pumped into the air. If everything goes wrong, all three reactors meltdown and escape containment it will be a mess -- but it won't even be a Chernobyl like mess, because you won't get the combination of steam explosion and graphite fire that you had there, and you have vastly better physical containment.

Double really, people. We *nuked* Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We deliberately constructed devices so that they would undergo an extended prompt critical reaction, and we dropped them on cities.

Are those cities empty wastelands, bereft of life, with nobody allowed to enter them?

And those were small weapons. Look at some of the beasts we cranked off in the Pacific, in the USSR, in Australia, in Africa, hell, in Nevada. Repeatedly.

This is a bad situation. This is not that. And not only is this not that, as we get more and more information, I can tell you this for certain.

In the end, you will be hard put to find the people who died from these reactors amongst the thousands, and now starting to look like tens-of-thousands, who died from the quake and the tsunami.

If you think the reactors are the worst thing that has happened here, you are failing badly at understanding risks.

If you want to know what scares me about Japan right now? It's the broken transport, which means more will die because they can't get supplies, and it's the statement from the JMA stating that there's a 70% of a Magnitude 7 aftershock in the next three days.
posted by eriko "
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby winsomecowboy2 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:32 am

I loved this exchange.

""The plant was rated for an 8.2 earthquake, made it through an 8.9"

Actually, they upped it to a 9.0.

Really... can anyone point out a single object in the entire world rated to survive a 9.0 earthquake?!
posted by markkraft at 7:13 AM on 3/13


I'm pretty sure Jello® would survive it.

Hey, I just had a great idea for a nuclear containment design... a delicious nuclear containment design!
posted by TheNewWazoo at 7:16 AM on 3/13
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby eyeno » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:36 am

23 wrote:



what is that dude?
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby wintler2 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:00 am

Putting aside all the facts, is it too early for jokes about Japan nuking the US?
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Peachtree Pam » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:06 am

From the Guardian:

10:18 a.m.

The Australian broadcaster ABC has posted a series of before and after satellite images from around north east Japan which give a clear sense of how much devastation the tsunami caused. The viewer can slide back and forth between the before and after shots, seeing how entire towns have been swept away. See the gallery here
http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan ... eafter.htm


Posting this on the other thread as well.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby eyeno » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:20 am

Store shelves empty in Tokyo as uncertainty reigns


By Shinichi Saoshiro and Terril Yue Jones
TOKYO | Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:04am EDT
(Reuters) - Commuters and residents of the Japanese capital faced confusion and uncertainty on Monday over the supply of food and energy after Friday's devastating quake and tsunami which crippled a nuclear power plant.

Some store shelves were emptied and many train lines were shut down as Tokyo commuters returned to work after a weekend glued to horrific images of the extensive damage about 150 miles to the north.

In the largely residential Nerima district of Yokyo, staples like rice, bread and instant noodles were sold out. Lights were kept off on the produce shelves and meat refrigeration units to conserve electricity.

"About 40 to 50 people were lined up outside when we opened at 10. A day's worth of food sold out in an hour. We had a second shipment delivered at midday and that sold out in an hour too," said Toshiro Imai, a store manager in Tokyo.

"Part of the factory of one of our suppliers is damaged so stock is limited."

Tsutomu Yamane, a manager of a branch at the Tokyo metropolitan government that oversees retailers, said officials were trying to assess the situation.

"A food shortage is difficult to handle from an administrative view," he said. "But what we can do is try and prevent retailers from cornering the market or hoarding goods (to raise prices)."

Prime Minister Naoto Kan on Sunday called this Japan's worst crisis since World War II, and the mood has also been darkened by news reports quoting experts as saying there is a 70 percent chance of another damaging tremor by Wednesday.

More than 100 commuter train lines in the Tokyo area were scheduled to be partially or completely closed on Monday.

Several calls to East Japan Railways Co, the largest train operator in the country, went unanswered due to high call volume, according to a recording.

Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) began a rolling blackout on Monday in Tokyo and surrounding cities to conserve energy amid the crisis at nuclear power plants in the earthquake-affected areas.

Broadcaster NHK showed an aerial view of Ibaraki prefecture, north of Tokyo, which was black except for dots of lights from cars.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/ ... PX20110314
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Canadian_watcher » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:59 am

Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:19 pm

well, #2 is melting now...

1535: Just to recap for you: We're getting reports that water levels in reactor 2 at Fukushima have fallen sharply, leaving the nuclear fuel rods fully exposed and raising fears of a meltdown. More as it comes in.


don't forget the spent fuel sitting in these reactors too.

After one year, typical spent nuclear fuel generates about 10 kW of decay heat per tonne, decreasing to about 1 kW/t after ten years. Hence effective passive cooling for spent nuclear fuel is required for a number of years.


    #
    1431: More from Japanese nuclear engineer Masashi Goto: He say that as the reactor uses mox (mixed oxide) fuel, the melting point is lower than that of conventional fuel. Should a meltdown and an explosion occur, he says, plutonium could be spread over an area up to twice as far as estimated for a conventional nuclear fuel explosion. The next 24 hours are critical, he says.
    #
    1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.
    #
    1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 23 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:25 pm

This video was just released by We Are Change in Vancouver, CA.

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 23 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:16 pm

http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/j ... s-20110314
Japanese Officials: Nuclear Fuel Rods Melting in 3 Reactors
Outlook grim following two explosions

Japanese officials confirmed Monday that nuclear fuel rods appear to be melting inside three reactors compromised by Friday’s earthquake, though nuclear experts differ on whether the outer chamber of a reactor melting in fact constitutes a partial “meltdown.”

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Monday that "although we cannot directly check it, it's highly likely happening."

Unit 3 of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station in northeastern Japan exploded earlier Monday, wounding 11 workers; it had been under emergency watch for an explosion after a hydrogen blast at Unit 1 of the plant on Saturday. Edano said the Unit 3 reactor’s inner containment vessel was intact.

More than 180,000 people have been evacuated from the area, and as many as 1,500 have been examined for radiation, according to USA Today.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby StarmanSkye » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:07 pm

I simply don't 'get' why this situation has been allowed to get progressively worse. Seems there's an awful lot of wishful-thinking 'hope' and plain sloppy second-guessing going on -- I have to wonder how much of it is contrived to keep the public in the dark about how dire the situation is. I can't understand why the necessary reapirs haven't been made if pipes were broken and a suitable supply of freshwater brought on-site along with large mobile generators to power the cooling pumps -- everyone had to know how absolutely VITAL that was, instead of waiting to see what would happen as water boiled-off increasing pressure and exposing the fuel rods. I mean, if they could pump-in seawater using fireengines, then WHY didn't they bring in water-tanks, even by airlift as is done in forest firefighting. I even looked-up to see whether portable desalinization systems are theoretically applicable, that could have been air-supplied (assuming roads are impassable) -- I see no reason why they couldn't have been expedited on-site, providing an immeasurably better alternative than the desperate effort using seawater.

Failure to properly protect the integrity of these reactors will not only likely result in their never being useable again, contributing to severe electricity supply issues for perhaps years, but greatly compromise & complicate the immense clean-up, repair and rebuilding of the towns and infrastructure of the region as well as adding to the already staggering costs.

It boggles the mind.

And WHY IN HELL were these plants sited right-next to the shoreline in a region noted for earthquake activity with the large danger of tsunamis? The proximity of ocean water would only be of benefit if desalinization and protected storage of the filtered water was part of the whole system. But why couldn't a more sheltered, inland location be more suitable using an aquifier well given that pumps and storage would have to be used anyway?

It simply makes no sense.

I realize I'm just venting my frustration here with questions there aren't any easy answers to. I sure hope SOMEBODY with authority will be asking them -- NOT that there's going to be any practical benefit for the present situation tho.

My heart sure goes out to all the people affected by the earthquake, tsunami and now this man-made unfolding disaster. For all those who have lost everything and/or suffered terrible personal losses, it must seem like a total war.
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