Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to it

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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:08 am

In the event that this makes more sense...

le carre wrote:there is no law in life or nature that says great religions may be insulted with impunity.


...a quicker route to the same conclusion would be:

I could swear that John Le Carre just stated that there's no natural law against insulting great religions. And that's an awfully goddamn strange thing to say, if you think about it. I mean, of course there isn't. There are no religions in nature.

He means "laws of god and man." He's just being too cutely covert to say so.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby Hammer of Los » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:05 am

...

Is that what he is saying?

All he is saying is that there will be consequences if you insult a great religion.

I wouldn't insult any great religion.

Be patient and persevering.

For God is with those who patiently persevere.

Preserving is also good. Ask Vishnu.

Hmm.

Caesar adsum.

Jam for tea!

...
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:35 am

Hammer of Los wrote:...

Is that what he is saying?

All he is saying is that there will be consequences if you insult a great religion.


That sentence is just ambiguous enough for it to be an open question, I suppose. So maybe. But I think that if he were, he'd have said "can be insulted with impunity" and not "may be insulted with impunity."

I know it seems niggling to take the debate down to that level of detail. But there's so much more than an niggling difference between "I believe that nobody has any reasonable expectation of impunity for insulting a great religion" and "I believe that nobody has any permission or legal justification for insulting a great religion," I'd say the burden's really on Le Carre not to leave readers scrounging for textual clues as to whether he's advocating respect for great religions or censorship. And I really don't see how he could possibly have been unaware of it, given that the whole throwdown started over his belief that nobody should publish The Satanic Verses in paperback.

So (in short): Try to blame him for the niggling, not me, if you can.
__________________

FWIW, I've got to admit that there's a sense in which he so totally trounces Rushdie/Hitchens (and by extension, far below them, me) that it's practically pointless for me even to make that request, though. He's just so much more ineffably enjoyable to read than they are that even I figuratively perked up and started humming along when I got to his contributions to the discussion. And I'm so totally never going to agree with his argument going in that it should really be an uphill struggle for him to compel my attention long enough to make it.

Also fwiw, that doesn't actually have a thing to do with Rushdie, one way or the other. As far as I'm concerned, Le Carre might as well be saying that there's no law in life or nature that says every trace of Sibel Edmonds shouldn't be wiped out of the congressional record. Because if I'm reading him right, that is what he's saying. And even if I'm not, he'd still be making practically the same case as the one that was later used against her. As a matter of fact. ("Lives, cherished beliefs at stake, must be defended; people already read it, quit whining," essentially.)

Anyway. No matter what either one of them was saying, I'd way rather read Le Carre than Rushdie for pleasure, no contest. And why (for the love of all that is great in religion) that should once again end up making him look good and me bad, I have no idea. But I can see that it does.

He's impressive.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:44 pm

HoL wrote:
I wouldn't insult any great religion.


I've been thinking about that one, but I'm still stumped. I very much want to say that I wouldn't either, on the grounds that I wouldn't speak or act with that intention. But I'm not sure that really entitles me to the claim. If it were really my watchword not to insult great religions, I just wouldn't speak or act at all if I couldn't do it in some way that I was absolutely certain all great religions smiled upon. And I certainly wouldn't (and maybe shouldn't) have used the word "goddamn" a mere two or three posts ago.

...

How's this?

I wouldn't go to the Sistine Chapel wearing Lurex hotpants and a Piss Christ T-shirt. But I wouldn't say that there's any law in life or nature that says Christopher Hitchens couldn't, if that's what he wanted to do. Except, you know, the ones attached to his being dead. Despite which, it would so plainly be against every law in life or nature if Rushdie did it that the soul recoils at the very suggestion.

I think that's my basic position.

Be patient and persevering.


Be careful what you wish for.

:lovehearts: :lovehearts: :lovehearts:
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby slimmouse » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:01 pm

Ive developed a huge respect recently for the thinking of Craig Hulet. I listened to him on C2C the other night, and the guy certainly seems to knows his onions.

He's kinda like Smedley- Butler reincarnated in some ways. A guy who's been a career advisor to the very people who he generally speaking now despises, cos he seems to understand exactly how the game works.

In the interview, he describes the Politicians as the "spiritual Govnt", (albeit employing the term spiritual rather loosely) whos role in a war is to give people the excuses for the wars, that supposedly pass for truths.

The big arm of course are the corporations, whom he describes as The "Temporal Govnt", who's financial power and influence allows them to hire generals to plan war strategies for them - something he claims to have personally borne witness too.

The lawyers are "The scribes"

He speaks of how the temporal Govnt simply adore the idea of a 2 party "democracy", because unfortunately it still convinces too many people of the illusion of actual choice, and thus acts in some ways as an excuse almost, to pretend that this stuff aint going on, because if they dont like it they have a right to change it by voting, having consumed their GM food whilst sat glued to the magic lantern.

The more focused of these people might even stay tuned for the latest report from Fox news, telling them how it really is(n't) . As if, he concludes, they really have any actual choice in how its ultimately gonna be, as long as they remain in their current state of hypnotically induced denial, and as the world burns, their jobs dissapear, and their lives go, literally down the tube. I think its a pretty damning, but nonetheless honest assessment of our general condition in the West

Amongst his observations related specifically to this topic meanwhile, which are hard, for me at least, to take exception too.
1 The assassination of the Ambassador was a planned event.

2 The vast majority of the M.E and muslim world, who are supposedly up in arms about this video, are in fact angry about something far more tangible, in the form of a population who are sick to death with what is happening all over the region, as we speak, in the form of Western Corporate intrusions. For example, Masses of land being forcibly sequestered by the Bio tech food companies, resulting in "comply-or-leave' terms for large numbers of the indigenous population, as was the case in Iraq under executive order 81. ( please google, for those who dont know)

3. The entire Gaddaffi murder, and Libya episode was of course, contrary to the fluffy "spiritual" narrative, to dispose of a stout nationalist who refused to tow the Corporate line, and allow them access to, amongst other things the countries deep water ports, which form a vital strategic trade route out of Northern Africa, into Europe and elsewhere. This will faciliate export of the soon to be produced food products of monsanto and company, not to mention the other abundant mineral resources that have the Big boys slavvering at the mouth. He doesnt mention the currency/central bank thing, but Ive no doubt hes well aware of it.

To name but a few.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby Nordic » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:23 pm

slimmouse wrote:Ive developed a huge respect recently for the thinking of Craig Hulet. I listened to him on C2C the other night, and the guy certainly seems to knows his onions.

He's kinda like Smedley- Butler reincarnated in some ways. A guy who's been a career advisor to the very people who he generally speaking now despises, cos he seems to understand exactly how the game works.

In the interview, he describes the Politicians as the "spiritual Govnt", (albeit employing the term spiritual rather loosely) whos role in a war is to give people the excuses for the wars, that supposedly pass for truths.

The big arm of course are the corporations, whom he describes as The "Temporal Govnt", who's financial power and influence allows them to hire generals to plan war strategies for them - something he claims to have personally borne witness too.

The lawyers are "The scribes"

He speaks of how the temporal Govnt simply adore the idea of a 2 party "democracy", because unfortunately it still convinces too many people of the illusion of actual choice, and thus acts in some ways as an excuse almost, to pretend that this stuff aint going on, because if they dont like it they have a right to change it by voting, having consumed their GM food whilst sat glued to the magic lantern.

The more focused of these people might even stay tuned for the latest report from Fox news, telling them how it really is(n't) . As if, he concludes, they really have any actual choice in how its ultimately gonna be, as long as they remain in their current state of hypnotically induced denial, and as the world burns, their jobs dissapear, and their lives go, literally down the tube. I think its a pretty damning, but nonetheless honest assessment of our general condition in the West

Amongst his observations related specifically to this topic meanwhile, which are hard, for me at least, to take exception too.
1 The assassination of the Ambassador was a planned event.

2 The vast majority of the M.E and muslim world, who are supposedly up in arms about this video, are in fact angry about something far more tangible, in the form of a population who are sick to death with what is happening all over the region, as we speak, in the form of Western Corporate intrusions. For example, Masses of land being forcibly sequestered by the Bio tech food companies, resulting in "comply-or-leave' terms for large numbers of the indigenous population, as was the case in Iraq under executive order 81. ( please google, for those who dont know)

3. The entire Gaddaffi murder, and Libya episode was of course, contrary to the fluffy "spiritual" narrative, to dispose of a stout nationalist who refused to tow the Corporate line, and allow them access to, amongst other things the countries deep water ports, which form a vital strategic trade route out of Northern Africa, into Europe and elsewhere. This will faciliate export of the soon to be produced food products of monsanto and company, not to mention the other abundant mineral resources that have the Big boys slavvering at the mouth. He doesnt mention the currency/central bank thing, but Ive no doubt hes well aware of it.

To name but a few.



This certainly all has a ring of truth to it.

Gotta check this guy out. Thanks.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby MinM » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:38 pm

slimmouse wrote:Ive developed a huge respect recently for the thinking of Craig Hulet. I listened to him on C2C the other night, and the guy certainly seems to knows his onions.

He's kinda like Smedley- Butler reincarnated in some ways. A guy who's been a career advisor to the very people who he generally speaking now despises, cos he seems to understand exactly how the game works...


Craig B. Hulet, Jim Garrison and the JFK assassination

* Kennedy Assassination
* November 23, 2010
* By: Donna Anderson


The second guest during the Coast to Coast Kennedy Assassination Special was analyst and researcher, Craig B. Hulet discussing the research of Federal Judge Jim Garrison and his ideas relating to the assassination conspiracy.

Hulet and Garrison became friends in the 1980s and Garrison shared, at length, the results of his many years of research.

Garrison was just as upset as the rest of the nation but in the 80s he was also angry because, although he had done extensive research into the various conspiracy theories, no one had ever asked him for his results. And when he finally decided to share those files with Hulet all of them suddenly disappeared.

One thing that Garrison found interesting was that Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan and James Earl Ray had all lived within a block of each other at a housing project in Dallas.

Hulet states that, in any other country, the first place people look when 2 high level leaders (John and Bobby Kennedy) and a Nobel Prize winner (Martin Luther King) are assassinated is their country's own Intelligence organization. He questions how the FBI, the CIA and the Secret Service could all be housed in the same building in Dallas yet no one had a clue about Oswald or his supposed intentions.

According to Hulet, the American public has to understand we suffered a coups d' etat that didn't begin with JFK and didn't end with Bobby. The coups continued on for many, many years until the regime that we're now living with was in place, where we still believe we're living in a democratic society. “This country isn't anywhere close to where people believe it is” states Hulet.

Hulet believes The One World Order knew that if JFK, Bobby and Martin Luther King were allowed to move forward they'd never be able to take control. He also thinks the whole country was demoralized beginning with Kennedy assassination. now there's not even a protest about what we've done in Afghanistan. It's like we're not even there...

http://www.examiner.com/article/craig-b ... assination

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2012/09/u ... tance.html
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby NeonLX » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:56 pm

now there's not even a protest about what we've done in Afghanistan. It's like we're not even there...
]


No flag-draped coffins shown on teevee and no draft. Plus all them people in that part of the world get so worked up about dumb little videos 'n' stuff. I seen 'em on teevee and they're just crazy, man.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby The Consul » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:18 pm

What if Jesus came back with black teeth from too much crystal and he hung out with the Mahdi (one eye, and a fist close to a hilt he can't unclench) in a tavern frequented by madmen excommunicated from the Stryker brigade and he said that Mark Leyner was the temporary avatar holding this universe together before it lapses into another dimension? And what if, this being too much, Pat Robertson came into the tavern on a chariot pulled by naked hermaphrodites with only the General Mills logo tattooed on their blinking eyelids and proclaimed that Jesus Himself was the Anti Christ? And what if the ghost of Flannery O'Conner appeared in the veils of the Virgin Mary and lifting her skirts above her pearly Raphaelian legs mouthed a whisper heard in the minds of all men in all times
"the more you get the less you have, honey". And then the utterly drunken and besotted Christopher Hitchens, falling off his bar-stool screams "but isn't dissing a major religion akin to savaging celebrity culture while indulging in the irony of engaging in it?" And then, looking in the sand filled mirror behind the bar you notice arabesque patterns that seem to connect everything, and seeing your life come to a close like the darkness on Porky Pigs head at cartoon's end, falling to rest in the planks readied for you by better minds, how could you not in that last instant roll the dice on Pascall's wager and whisper Meher Baba as you die? But before the last consonant come out, Faustus descends on a trapeze swing, sticking his slipper in your mouth and cries "That's cheating!" The Mahdi meanwhile is drawing his sword and it does not look good for the remaining patron's heads.

Is history but the victim of bad fiction?
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby justdrew » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:37 am

oddly enough, Rushdie was on Bill Maher's show yesterday, he said the fatwa turned his life "into a John Le Carre novel"
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby Luther Blissett » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:38 pm

Yeah I was thinking that they must have read this thread.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby 82_28 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:06 pm

Is history but the victim of bad fiction?


I'm no expert. But indeed, I think it is. The amount of stupidity and propaganda (for the era that you do searches for) is staggering -- there was no irony, and what there was, we simply cannot get without someone from then to explain the time and span it along with us using their age and acumen. And this is just from reading so many newspapers as though they were current, crosschecking with wikipedia and such and doing physical street address searches on the news of yesterday and following names and addresses through history be re-crosschecking again. Just finding shit in classifieds as to an address and following it through the years, the obits, the changing hands of property.

Property wasn't what we look at it as today in the olden days. People didn't think like us. And it's something else to think of all of the enfolding of each and every generation that did this without database search capabilities. Akin, to the "age old" question: What the fuck did people do before cellphones? We know the answer, but it is pretty unimaginable now.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby compared2what? » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:49 pm

Nakoula was arrested and carted off to jail, looks like. More in a second.

    'Innocence of Muslims' filmmaker arrested on probation violation

    Image

    Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, the filmmaker behind the controversial “Innocence of Muslims” movie that has sparked days of rioting across the Muslim world, has been arrested on suspicion of violating terms of his probation, federal authorities said.

    He is expected to appear in federal court Thursday afternoon.

    Nakoula was convicted on bank fraud charges in 2010 and warned against misbehaving on the Internet.

    He was ordered not to own or use devices with access to the Web without approval from his probation officer -– and any approved computers were to be used for work only. "Defendant shall not access a computer for any other purpose," according to the terms of his probation.

    There were also restrictions placed on him in enlisting others to get on the Internet for him. Some speculated that Nakoula may have violated those terms after the film trailer was loaded onto YouTube, although it is unclear what exactly prompted the recent arrest.

    Nakoula had been arrested in 2009 after federal agents searched his home in Cerritos on suspicion that he had engaged in a scheme to create fake identities and open credit cards in those names, then draw tens of thousands of dollars from the phony accounts.

    According to the court file, Nakoula operated under a dizzying array of aliases, including Kritbag Difrat. In June 2010, he was convicted on four counts, including bank fraud and identity theft, and was sentenced to 21 months in federal prison. He was also ordered to pay $794,700.57 in restitution.

    He was released, according to federal records, in June 2011.

    Authorities interviewed Nakoula earlier this month amid the furor over the film. Actors have identified him as the filmmaker.

(LINK)
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:06 pm

Interesting that he was convicted in June of 2010, sentenced to 21 months and released after 12.
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Re: Ambassador killed -- something tells me there is more to

Postby justdrew » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:13 pm

lot of non-violents are getting put out early IIRC

He sure looks like a Useful Idiot. Maybe he even though he was working for the CIA or some shit. But if anything I think he was just working for Republican party criminals.
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