Ken O' Keefe.

[Wombaticus Rex]

AD: I can only take this as an implication that you see something here that needs to be moderated as a blatant violation of forum rules -- what would that be, specifically?

[American Dream]

AD: I can only take this as an implication that you see something here that needs to be moderated as a blatant violation of forum rules -- what would that be, specifically?

Not exactly- I would say more an ongoing violation of the spirit of these guidelines- as to whether the letter of the law has been followed- that is another question...

[Wombaticus Rex]

Okay, so, let's dig down: how come you never call out Elfis when he posts InfoWars links?

[American Dream]

Okay, so, let's dig down: how come you never call out Elfis when he posts InfoWars links?

A) I don't generally read those threads.

B) I'm not familiar enough with Alex Jones to know all his subtleties but as problematic as some of his stuff is from a moral and political standpoint, I don't think he's doing at all what folks like Israel Shamir, David Icke, Gilad Atzmon and Kenneth O'Keefe are doing.

[seemslikeadream]

he ain't no Churchill either......for that matter he's no Campbell


damn elfs gets to have all the fun without the drama

I thought he maybe talking about that gun in your avatar Womby.....pretty scary stuff

[Wombaticus Rex]

I thought he maybe talking about that gun in your avatar Womby.....pretty scary stuff

Who are you mocking with that comment, exactly?

[solace]

Okay, so, let's dig down: how come you never call out Elfis when he posts InfoWars links?

A) I don't generally read those threads.

B) I'm not familiar enough with Alex Jones to know all his subtleties but as problematic as some of his stuff is from a moral and political standpoint, I don't think he's doing at all what folks like Israel Shamir, David Icke, Gilad Atzmon and Kenneth O'Keefe are doing.

Those guys (Israel Shamir, David Icke, Gilad Atzmon and Kenneth O'Keefe ) emit a distinct aroma. Not a nice aroma. Support and apologies for them stink even more. That simple.

[seemslikeadream]

I thought he maybe talking about that gun in your avatar Womby.....pretty scary stuff

Who are you mocking with that comment, exactly?

well I wasn't mocking you AD was the one that brought up

This also bears repeating:

Posts advocating violence, or espousing hatred of a people based upon race, religion, gender or sexuality, are not permitted.

and the only thing I've seen around these parts that would have any resemblance to violence is that chimp with the gun...you know and I know that chimp wouldn't hurt a fly but AD has quite the imagination

ok the

is a bit violent I'll give you that but still

[American Dream]

Those guys (Israel Shamir, David Icke, Gilad Atzmon and Kenneth O'Keefe ) emit a distinct aroma. Not a nice aroma. Support and apologies for them stink even more. That simple.

Yes- it's wrong on so many levels- certainly from the standpoint of feeding the fire of bias, hate and hurtfulness in the world, but also from the standpoint of offering an understanding of the problems we face:



Anti-Semitism

Distrust, prejudice, and hatred toward Jews arose in Europe hundreds of years ago. Europe was ruled by kingdoms allied with the Catholic Church after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Jews were banned from playing a major role in the economy or gaining political power. Over time, different Jewish communities found ways to survive at the edges of society, doing things that mainstream society looked down upon, like lending money. Soon Jews as a whole became associated with this profession. At first this profession wasn’t very powerful. But as capitalism developed, money-lending—credit—became more important.


FACTORY WORK IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
WAS EXHAUSTING AND UNSAFE,
LIKE IN MANY FACTORIES AROUND THE WORLD TODAY

As capitalism developed, millions of people were driven of the land, and forced to work for poverty wages in the new factories of industrial Europe. Because Jews were already identified with money and credit, different groups began to view Jews as a symbol of capitalism itself. Many European workers believed Jews used their role as financiers to gain power and exploit people. Jews also provided a convenient scapegoat for the petit-bourgeoisie: small business owners trying to become big-time factory owners. This class resented the debts they had to take out in order to expand their businesses. They viewed financiers as an obstacle to “fair” competition. In the early 20th century, Jewish communities regularly suffered attacks by mobs of workers and petit-bourgeois business owners. Especially in Eastern Europe and Russia, “pogroms” (lynch mobs against Jewish neighborhoods) were a common occurrence.

Anti-Semitism united poor workers with small business owners, despite their opposed interests. The poor workers were angry about their treatment under capitalism, but saw Jews as a bigger enemy than their exploiting factory bosses. The small business owners worked to become the big-time exploiters of the poor workers, and felt Jews stood in the way of their goals. These two classes were fundamentally opposed to each other, but temporarily joined together in a populist movement, because of their mutual, misguided anti-Semitism. Populist movements join poor people with the petit-bourgeoisie, against imagined elite enemies. They speak in the name of the “common man,” but they’re guided by middle class elements, and screw over poor and working participants in the end. Contemporary examples of populism include the Tea Party, some parts of Occupy Wall Street, and the Nation of Islam. Illuminati theories are often populist in character. Many populist theories draw on anti-Semitism to identify an evil elite that runs the world.

Many Illuminati theories make use of a document from the early 1900s called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Protocols claimed to be a secret document written by Jews, about their plans to take over the world. In fact, they were written sometime between 1897 and 1903, most likely by members of the Russian secret police. At the time, Russian nationalists were trying to prevent the breakout of a Russian Revolution against the Emperor of Russia, called the Tsar. Most nationalists were strongly anti-Semitic. They viewed the entire mass movement to overthrow the Tsar as a Jewish conspiracy. The Protocols were written to help fuel the movement against Jews, in order (they thought) to prevent the revolution.

Most of the Protocols was crudely copied from two other books: Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, written by Maurice Joly in 1864, and Biarritz, a German novel written in 1868 by Hermann Goedsche. Despite being exposed as a fake, the document became widely read in Russia and Europe, and eventually the U.S. too. Because of this, Illuminati theories regularly make mention of Jewish banking groups like the Rothschilds and the Bilderbergs, and portray Jews as a secret group intent on world domination.



Excerpted from: http://overthrowingilluminati.wordpress ... lluminati/

[Searcher08]

Yes, fasciist behaviour has a real stink about.

Some Thoughts on Fascist Behaviour
It is important to fight fascism where one sees it.

It can be overt - in the form of physical violence to conform to someone elses politics, or less overt, in the form of mental violence to conform to someone elses ideas.
The mental violence can be plain to see for those who can see it - in the form of mind control and persuasion or more hidden -
in the form of bullying, denial of different points of view from one's own, actively disrespecting and suppressing people whose worldview differs from oneself if that worldview doesnt match one's own.

Fascists do not think for themselves - they establish what is permissible through what others have thought and written. Fascists tend to reject novelty, because until a collective consensus is established, they dont know whether to accept ot or reject it the new. They are second hand collectivists who often espouse being radical, but it is radical only within their frame. Within that frame, their mental model of how things are and what is permissible and what not is often indicated by what is NOT spoken about, like the use of negative space in a Chinese painting.

Fascism seeks one platform, one 'Reality', one agreed on set of principles, with a set of people who dissociate from all who do not subscribe to all aspects of that. This is much more important that being aligned with objectives and working towards them. A fascist seeks primacy of collective agreement on principles as being much more important than engagement.

The people who refuse this process are labelled as 'problematic' and must be re-educated, shown the error of their ways, made to conform.
If they refuse, because for example they wish to think for themselves, ie not have the fascist do their thinking for them - then must be ruthlessly suppressed, their message drowned out by whatever means necessary; create an informational noise, throw mud, make it personal, patronise, play 1-up; refuse to find any common ground.

Play "Six Degrees of Separation of 'The Enemy' - guilt by degrees of association -
If there are connections between people that are problematic, create more. If there are none, then invent them.
Employ a principle of purity - "I am only as pure as my connections" - if others do not conform , critique them. If they dont conform after this, escalate.
Look for sources of division. If there are none, create them.
If called on the behaviour ignore, confabulate, go irrelevant, above all portray yourself as the victim of your enemies, that it is their temerity to stand up for themselves that is so 'problematic'

The people who dare to point out contradictions in the fascist behaviour will be mocked, ignored and ridiculed, their questions unanswered.

Yes, fascist behaviour stinks.
It really really does... it ABSOLUTELY "feeds the fire of bias, hate and hurtfulness in the world"

And it has no place on R.I.

Those guys (Israel Shamir, David Icke, Gilad Atzmon and Kenneth O'Keefe ) emit a distinct aroma. Not a nice aroma. Support and apologies for them stink even more. That simple.

Yes- it's wrong on so many levels- certainly from the standpoint of feeding the fire of bias, hate and hurtfulness in the world, but also from the standpoint of offering an understanding of the problems we face:



Anti-Semitism

Distrust, prejudice, and hatred toward Jews arose in Europe hundreds of years ago. Europe was ruled by kingdoms allied with the Catholic Church after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Jews were banned from playing a major role in the economy or gaining political power. Over time, different Jewish communities found ways to survive at the edges of society, doing things that mainstream society looked down upon, like lending money. Soon Jews as a whole became associated with this profession. At first this profession wasn’t very powerful. But as capitalism developed, money-lending—credit—became more important.


FACTORY WORK IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
WAS EXHAUSTING AND UNSAFE,
LIKE IN MANY FACTORIES AROUND THE WORLD TODAY

As capitalism developed, millions of people were driven of the land, and forced to work for poverty wages in the new factories of industrial Europe. Because Jews were already identified with money and credit, different groups began to view Jews as a symbol of capitalism itself. Many European workers believed Jews used their role as financiers to gain power and exploit people. Jews also provided a convenient scapegoat for the petit-bourgeoisie: small business owners trying to become big-time factory owners. This class resented the debts they had to take out in order to expand their businesses. They viewed financiers as an obstacle to “fair” competition. In the early 20th century, Jewish communities regularly suffered attacks by mobs of workers and petit-bourgeois business owners. Especially in Eastern Europe and Russia, “pogroms” (lynch mobs against Jewish neighborhoods) were a common occurrence.

Anti-Semitism united poor workers with small business owners, despite their opposed interests. The poor workers were angry about their treatment under capitalism, but saw Jews as a bigger enemy than their exploiting factory bosses. The small business owners worked to become the big-time exploiters of the poor workers, and felt Jews stood in the way of their goals. These two classes were fundamentally opposed to each other, but temporarily joined together in a populist movement, because of their mutual, misguided anti-Semitism. Populist movements join poor people with the petit-bourgeoisie, against imagined elite enemies. They speak in the name of the “common man,” but they’re guided by middle class elements, and screw over poor and working participants in the end. Contemporary examples of populism include the Tea Party, some parts of Occupy Wall Street, and the Nation of Islam. Illuminati theories are often populist in character. Many populist theories draw on anti-Semitism to identify an evil elite that runs the world.

Many Illuminati theories make use of a document from the early 1900s called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Protocols claimed to be a secret document written by Jews, about their plans to take over the world. In fact, they were written sometime between 1897 and 1903, most likely by members of the Russian secret police. At the time, Russian nationalists were trying to prevent the breakout of a Russian Revolution against the Emperor of Russia, called the Tsar. Most nationalists were strongly anti-Semitic. They viewed the entire mass movement to overthrow the Tsar as a Jewish conspiracy. The Protocols were written to help fuel the movement against Jews, in order (they thought) to prevent the revolution.

Most of the Protocols was crudely copied from two other books: Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, written by Maurice Joly in 1864, and Biarritz, a German novel written in 1868 by Hermann Goedsche. Despite being exposed as a fake, the document became widely read in Russia and Europe, and eventually the U.S. too. Because of this, Illuminati theories regularly make mention of Jewish banking groups like the Rothschilds and the Bilderbergs, and portray Jews as a secret group intent on world domination.



Excerpted from: http://overthrowingilluminati.wordpress ... lluminati/

[seemslikeadream]

often indicated by what is NOT spoken about


in the form of bullying, denial of different points of view from one's own, actively disrespecting and suppressing people whose worldview differs from oneself if that worldview doesnt match one's own.

Fascism seeks one platform, one 'Reality',

- guilt by degrees of association -

[American Dream]

The posting guidelines are great- the essence of what they convey is very, very important- first and foremost in a "spirit of the law" sense, much more than a "letter of the law" sense:

Welcome to the RI board.

While Rigorous Intuition welcomes a range of informed perspectives, it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values. It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of all people are respected. Members who challenge these rights may be regarded as disruptive, and members who habitually challenge them will be banned.

This is an anti-fascist board. Propagation of fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, including sympathetically linking to sites which advocate such, will not be permitted. This includes revisionist histories of the Holocaust.

This is an anti-sexist board. We correctly assume that women, as a group, have been and continue to be the object of oppression based upon their gender. It is expected that members will respect the rights of women to justice and equality in all spheres of life, and to a positive experience of RI. Contending that feminism is a "New World Order plot" will not be permitted.

Posts advocating violence, or espousing hatred of a people based upon race, religion, gender or sexuality, are not permitted.

The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.

Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep arguments issue-based.

Members can help maintain the health of the board. If you see something that you think needs attention, please pm myself or a moderator with the link, or use the alert button.

Thank you for your civil and thoughtful contributions, and your cooperation in helping to generate more light than heat.

[seemslikeadream]

.....

********STOP********

********STOP********

just fucking stop the crap...it's getting really old

I've been here since day one...that's a long long long fuckin time...I've never been suspended... never been banned.... never quit and come back....I know the rules...I knew Jeff before he started RI..I don't need you reminding me of anything...just fuckin get over whatever is up your behind

[Searcher08]

So what does one do when some members experience that that spirit is not being adhered to?

Surely this comes down to empathy?
Empathy doesnt mean agreement
Just an acknowledging of their experience.
If they are not heard, then nothing will shift.

If their communication is 'please stop this behaviour' and you ignore it
- how will anything change?

How will YOU then be able to be heard and get YOUR needs met?

What are the scenarios to this?
1 None - stay the same
This argument was first recorded on R.I. in 2005

2 Fight to the death
As there are no other resources than time and attention, this could take years

3 Both factions set the other on Ignore
Possible, but the subjects may still come up

4 Divorce by Tech
Setp up different mutually exclusive sub-boards using phpBB3.
Install the phpBB3 MOD (This user found this post helpful)

4 Use NVC
Both AD and S08 know some NVC; it tends to not get used because <insert reasns here>

5 Be kind, creative and different
I'm unsure know how this would happen - perhaps focus on something positive? - like creating an Activism best practice thread AD and a Researchers best practice thread SLAD.

Constructive / creative comments appreciated







[quote="American Dream » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:31 pm"]The posting guidelines are great- the essence of what they convey is very, very important- first and foremost in a "spirit of the law" sense, much more than a "letter of the law" sense:

[Wombaticus Rex]

SLAD:

It is very clear that neither you nor AD are going to "fuckin get over" anything. This argument has been going for many months now and has gotten rather precisely nowhere. You resent being lectured about the associations and implications of your sources, AD resents the material you (and slim) contribute to the board.

I do agree that it's getting really old, though!

The most frustrating aspect of this is the asymmetry in communication style, because you get (very) angry and take this personally, and AD is methodically focused on the issue at hand. He is also quite adept at triggering your rage circuitry with a single sentence. For instance, it is interesting that you would assume AD "reported" you and I was responding to his concerns when I asked you to refrain from .gifgasms, and a few pages later you're reporting him. I would much rather not spend time in this thread at all, because we all know what this is: just the latest vessel for this neverending interpersonal dispute.

I would hugely appreciate it if this stopped -- and I know it won't. Quite a quandary for a moderator!