Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

[Canadian_watcher]

This sort of shit just makes me sick

Bloomberg Says Interpretation of Constitution Will ‘Have to Change’ After Boston Bombing

http://politicker.com/2013/04/bloomb...ave-to-change/



In the wake of the Boston Marathon bombings, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Monday the country’s interpretation of the Constitution will “have to change” to allow for greater security to stave off future attacks.

“The people who are worried about privacy have a legitimate worry,” Mr. Bloomberg said during a press conference in Midtown. “But we live in a complex world where you’re going to have to have a level of security greater than you did back in the olden days, if you will. And our laws and our interpretation of the Constitution, I think, have to change.”

Mr. Bloomberg, who has come under fire for the N.Y.P.D.’s monitoring of Muslim communities and other aggressive tactics, said the rest of the country needs to learn from the attacks.

makes me sick, too.
by the way, I apologize for misunderstanding and posting something that vaguely impugned you. honestly, my mistake. I would have apologized earlier but only caught your reply well after the fact and reintroducing the whole thing would have been weird. I could have PM'd but I like to apologize publicly for public foibles.

[Hunter]

LOL it is no problem at all, I sort of figured it was a simple misunderstanding, I certainly appreciate the gesture though and also your contributions.


I try to explain to friends, colleagues (who should know better BTW) when they say "well a little more security cant hurt," that history clearly and very obviously shows anytime you give the govt an inch they will take a mile, so you can never, ever surrender that inch, you just cant. Unfortunately I dont think there are enough of us to counter them though, I hope I am wrong, very wrong. And I dont mean violently, just speaking out against it, there seem to be a lot more who have no problem with this and only see the short term and refuse or are incapable of understanding the long term ramifications that are at stake here.


The number one response?


"If youre not a criminal why would this worry you."


I dont even know what to say that.

[Simulist]

Salon / By Alex Seitz-Wald
Tamerlan Tsarnaev Was an Alex Jones Fan

The elder brother and alleged mastermind of the Boston bombings read InfoWars, according to a relative.
April 23, 2013 |

In a bizarre twist befitting a Hollywood conspiracy theory movie, the AP reports today that Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev was influenced by conspiracy theories, including Alex Jones’ website InfoWars, which has been pushing a narrative that the Tsarnaev brothers were patsies set up by a government cabal to take the fall for the bombing.

Tamerlan “took an interest in Infowars,” according to Elmirza Khozhugov, the ex-husband of Tamerlan’s sister. He was also apparently interested in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and was trying to find a copy of “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion,” one of the most notorious conspiracy tomes of history.

There’s no doubt that Jones will take this report as confirmation of everything he’s been preaching. The report, he will claim, was planted in the AP — the government controls the media, after all — and is a naked attempt to discredit him and definitive proof that the globalist cabal views him as a serious threat. He was getting too close to the truth in Boston, so the decided to try to take him out. It’ll be a big shot in the arm to Jones’ grand theory of the bombings, which has suffered from an embarrassing lack of evidence and logical consistently . He said the government first planed to the blame the Tea Party, but then was found out and had to switch Plan B — blame Muslim extremists — so with the AP report, Jones will say, the government is trying to return to plan A.

Meanwhile, in the real world, it underscores how dangerous and seductive conspiracy theories can be. The ideology of Al Qeada, which seems to be the primary influence on the Tsarnaev plot, can be seen as a conspiracy theory in itself, which places the United States at the center of all evil in the world. Even the extermination campaigns of the Third Reich were essentially built on a conspiracy theory.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... -jones-fan

Wow, fuck you Alternet. Conflating "al Qaeda"(as well as the goldstein legend of al Qaeda) with interest in conspiracy theories. Nice.

how dangerous and seductive conspiracy theories can be. The ideology of Al Qeada, which seems to be the primary influence on the Tsarnaev plot, can be seen as a conspiracy theory

He's right, but in the way he intended. Al Qaeda IS a conspiracy theory. A stirred up if not often controlled proxy box of wind up toys for cross cultural corporate interests.

Hi, 8bit. First of all, Alternet didn't write the article, Salon.com did — specifically, Alex Seitz-Wald of Salon.com. Alternet just reposted it (and without a link to the specific article).

Second, I think it was you who actually wrote, "Wow, fuck you Alternet," not Elfismiles. But I could be wrong. Anyway, the way the quote function was utilized there makes it appear as if he wrote it, not you. (In fact, he may agree with your sentiment; I just couldn't find where he actually said that.)

Third, I think conspiracy theories can be dangerous (not all of them, obviously; some of them can actually turn out to be true) — Alex Jones' conspiracy-theory industry most especially. He's long on hyperventilation, and frequently short on substance, linking together all sorts of tenuous threads into grand tapestries that often go nowhere. Not only is that dangerous to the truth, but it can also be debilitating to the cognitive function of people who take in a steady diet of it. And Tamerlan Tsarnaev may have been one such person.



[Edited 2 times for tone and substance.]

[Canadian_watcher]

LOL it is no problem at all, I sort of figured it was a simple misunderstanding, I certainly appreciate the gesture though and also your contributions.


I try to explain to friends, colleagues (who should know better BTW) when they say "well a little more security cant hurt," that history clearly and very obviously shows anytime you give the govt an inch they will take a mile, so you can never, ever surrender that inch, you just cant. Unfortunately I dont think there are enough of us to counter them though, I hope I am wrong, very wrong. And I dont mean violently, just speaking out against it, there seem to be a lot more who have no problem with this and only see the short term and refuse or are incapable of understanding the long term ramifications that are at stake here.


The number one response?


"If youre not a criminal why would this worry you."


I dont even know what to say that.

It's REALLY tough to answer that, except to point to the high profile cases of wrongful conviction and even wrongful accusation. This may be maudlin, however I kind of wish that everyone would be 'abused' by the police/justice system. (okay I actually wish that police never abused anyone to be fair, but barring that..) because I happened to have been studying the law at the time that it happened to me and I can't explain how it changed me and my whole paradigm. It took a LONG time to just get over the shame (same as anyone who has been abused) but no one understands until it has happened to them. Almost no one, anyway.

It doesn't even have to be severe or long and drawn out. It wasn't with me. it was just the fact that there I was, helpless, and there they all were so sure of themselves that they thought it was okay to hurt me - physically and mentally - and to actually HEAR them SAY "fuck you no, you cannot call a lawyer." I mean it really makes a person's blood run cold. I had done NOTHING. Wrong place, wrong time. That's it.

I guess another good response is to ask them to imagine what a super villain would do - would he first make everything illegal and THEN get you to surrender your rights and privacy, or would he make it seem like only bad guys are under any threat from giving up rights and privacy and THEN make more and more actions and even thoughts illegal.

But I guess this is the natural course of things, isn't it? We do NOT learn from history, that's patently obvious.

[Hunter]

Well reasoned response for sure and yes it does seem to be the natural progression of power and authority to want more power and authority and what do they have to worry about anyway, they are above the law, that has been shown time and again so the only people it fucks are you and I. The other problem is that you can almost look at a selective amount of information, without having the whole picture, of any person, and come to some conclusion that they are a criminal or involved in something shady, when in fact they likely are not at all but to those only viewing a slice of life, it could seem that way and you could be accused, falsely, evidence manufactured, a conviction rendered, and be completely innocent, happens all the time and would happen a lot more if we didnt have the constitutional protections that we have now and which they would love to take away.

What makes me even more sick is that they are willing, ever so willing, to use those 3 dead in Boston as fucking props to push their fascist police state fucking agenda, that is sickening. Even if they didnt manufacture it, the fact that they are willing to use it as a prop to push an agenda they have wanted all along even before 9-11 and all the way back to beginning of men ruling over other men, they have used every opportunity given to them or manufactured them themselves to push this agenda and whittle away, little by little the rights and liberties of the free.

[Joe Hillshoist]

If I represented the interests of private industry, I'd probably be very pleased about this development. I might even set about to foster it.

In the same week that the Boston bombings happened private enterprise caused an explosion of actual mass destruction that killed 5 times as many people and effectively destroyed a town, all we've heard about is the fucken bombing - I think that also suits private enterprise down to the ground.

and that fire and explosion could very well have been used to cover a large theft.

Yeah. The whole world thinks that 270 tons blew up, and maybe it did. but no one will ever know.

I'm no fan of the DHS or even the idea of "homeland security", but this is one of things where I would have expected a little more anger and a few more questions. Who are the owners, do they have ties to militias, or drug dealing cartels or any other potentially suspect group.

Bloody hell if some environmentalist were protesting about this site they'd already be copping shit from security services. Yet 270 tons of something that potentially dangerous has disappeared without being accounted for.

Even if there is nothing sus the owners of that plant are responsible for the deaths of 15 people, injuries to hundreds more and the destruction of a town.

Anyway... back to topic.

[Hunter]

And to those arguing that it wasnt martial law in Boston, fine ill concede your point, it wasnt martial law, but, really, that is just semantics, the point is a PRECEDENT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED, if you understand the legal power of precedent and what it means then you should be concerned, very concerned, about the precedent that was set in Boston last week.

[compared2what?]

Tamerlan “took an interest in Infowars,” according to Elmirza Khozhugov, the ex-husband of Tamerlan’s sister. He was also apparently interested in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and was trying to find a copy of “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion,” one of the most notorious conspiracy tomes of history.

Who could have predicted.

Seriously I wouldn't be surprised if that book ends up being the cause of all the wars in the world centuries after every other has been wiped off the map.

[seemslikeadream]

NH State Rep. Suggests Boston Bombing Was ‘False Flag’ Conspiracy

BENJY SARLIN 4:49 PM EDT, TUESDAY APRIL 23, 2013
A Republican state representative in New Hampshire posted a video by conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on Facebook last week suggesting the Boston marathon bombing was a "false flag" operation carried out by the US government.

Rep. Stella Temblay (R), a member of the state's 400-person House of Representatives, posted the video on Glenn Beck's Facebook page on April 19 with an accompanying message:

Just as you said would happen. Top Down, Bottom UP. The Boston Marathon was a Black Ops "terrorist" attack. One suspect killed, the other one will be too before they even have a chance to speak. Drones and now "terrorist" attacks by our own Government. Sad day, but a "wake up" to all of us. First there was a "suspect" then there wasnt. Infowars broke the story and they knew they had been "found out"

Reached by phone, Temblay told the local Foster's Daily Democrat that she had suspicions of some kind of plot involving Secretary of State John Kerry, Saudi nationals, and "black ops" soldiers at the scene of the marathon. Several of these elements have popped up both in Jones' work and various Internet fever swamps since the bombing.

Officials told the Washington Post on Tuesday that Djokhar Tsarnaev confessed to carrying out the attacks in tandem with his brother, telling authorities they were upset with American foreign policy towards the Middle East.

Temblay has a history of spreading conspiracy theories. Last year she e-mailed out a video claiming President Obama was not a citizen, according to the Huffington Post, promptiong a Democratic colleague to label her "an embarassment to us as a chamber."

The state's Democratic Party condemned her latest episode on Tuesday.

"[E]ven for the New Hampshire Republican Party, which has become synonymous with the Tea Party and radical extremism, Representative Tremblay's claims are a new low," New Hampshire Democratic Party Communication Director Harrell Kirstein said in a statement. "She is an embarrassment to the New Hampshire House of Representatives, to her constituents, and to the entire State of New Hampshire."

[compared2what?]

And to those arguing that it wasnt martial law in Boston, fine ill concede your point, it wasnt martial law, but, really, that is just semantics, the point is a PRECEDENT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED, if you understand the legal power of precedent and what it means then you should be concerned, very concerned, about the precedent that was set in Boston last week.

If you can tell me what that was, I will be.

I hate Bloomberg. Can't wait to see the last of him.

[justdrew]

And to those arguing that it wasnt martial law in Boston, fine ill concede your point, it wasnt martial law, but, really, that is just semantics, the point is a PRECEDENT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED, if you understand the legal power of precedent and what it means then you should be concerned, very concerned, about the precedent that was set in Boston last week.

WHY? Very concerned about what? Your reaction is overwrought if you ask me, appearing locked into a paranoid verging on delusional cooked and crooked info stream and it is radically biasing your perceptions. Consider that possibility. Exercise some freedom of thought. Did you even read the post showing how minimally troublesome the search was? Do you not see OVER AND OVER AGAIN Lying hysterical voices overstating everything, turning the police response wildly into something it was not?

[compared2what?]

Reached by phone, Temblay told the local Foster's Daily Democrat that she had suspicions of some kind of plot involving Secretary of State John Kerry, Saudi nationals, and "black ops" soldiers at the scene of the marathon. Several of these elements have popped up both in Jones' work and various Internet fever swamps since the bombing.

Seems to be the only official non-official story left that's semi-fit for public discussion and not demonstrably false. So I guess we have a winner.

This one got ugly awfully fast. I hope that's not the new normal. But I bet it is.

[Hunter]

I havent done that, the envelope was pushed though, feel free to disagree, there is no need to make this personal with tongue lashings and snark and name calling, I said what I said and you are free to accept it or reject it.

You could have just said you disagree with me, no real need to suggest I am paranoid, delusional and not free thinking.

The envelope was pushed though.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Its takes the total to drive totalitarianism.

That means people have to acquiesce to authority without questioning it.

Even if what happened in Boston was no threat to anyone's liberty except the young alleged bomber, the questions people are asking about it, even the hysterical voices, are a healthier thing than the complete absence of them.

Its better to have even someone like alex jones questioning the exercise of state power than to have no one at all questioning it.

[justdrew]

Reached by phone, Temblay told the local Foster's Daily Democrat that she had suspicions of some kind of plot involving Secretary of State John Kerry, Saudi nationals, and "black ops" soldiers at the scene of the marathon. Several of these elements have popped up both in Jones' work and various Internet fever swamps since the bombing.

Seems to be the only official non-official story left that's semi-fit for public discussion and not demonstrably false. So I guess we have a winner.

This one got ugly awfully fast. I hope that's not the new normal. But I bet it is.

the radical right fascist underground in America is cornered and desperate. Many of it's adherents are victims really, and have been harmed by their allies own weapons, but there's time to pull away and focus on constructive change for many of them. The gerrymandered house and a few senate seats are all they have left, that and an underground psiwar apparatus that's now being counted on to do more than it can do. It's possible, just barely possible we're nearing the end of this extremist phase.

That's my foolish hope for the moment at least.