Huge explosion in Oslo

[eyeno]

Why are the press still messing with photos?

I'm not saying you're wrong, Harvey, but it's not evident to me how either of these photos have been messed with.

Please explain.

Isn't the angle of gaze different?

[Bruce Dazzling]

Why are the press still messing with photos?

I'm not saying you're wrong, Harvey, but it's not evident to me how either of these photos have been messed with.

Please explain.

Isn't the angle of gaze different?

Yeah, I've never fancied myself as an eagle-eyed photoshop spotter, but in addition to not seeing what Harvey's on about, I just don't understand the motive behind behind photoshopping in this instance.

Harvey, are you suggesting that the top photo has been doctored for the purpose of adding Breivik's devilish smile in order to make him less sympathetic?

[stickdog99]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Special-p ... 28114.aspx

The Oslo police said on Monday they were setting up a special unit to investigate the twin attacks of July 22 and had collected phones, cameras and computers from the island of Utoeya for the investigation. Setting up a new special unit "is not something we do a lot, but in a case like this that is so big and needs so much resources it's necessary," said prosecutor Paal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby, who is in charge of the Oslo police probe.

"We don't know the entire structure yet (of the new task force) but we will know in a few days," he said.

He added police had collected all of the electronic equipment found on the island of Utoeya, where far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik has admitted gunning down 69 participants in the Labour Party youth wing's retreat.

"It was decided that all mobiles, all cameras, all iPads and all personal computers should be seized as evidence in this case," he said.

[wordspeak2]

Wow. There's our explanation for no audio or video from the island. The article doesn't say so, but I assume all the technology was seized before it ever left the island.

And the police are investigating themselves- lovely. There is going to be an investigation that's independent from the police, right?

Currently re-reading Dave McGowan's "Programmed to Kill." Anyone else read it?

[Harvey]

Yeah, I've never fancied myself as an eagle-eyed photoshop spotter, but in addition to not seeing what Harvey's on about, I just don't understand the motive behind behind photoshopping in this instance.

I am something of 'an eagle-eyed Photoshop spotter' and I'm seeing telltale artefacts all over the images, but more importantly a number of them just look wrong. The problem with my own argument (that doctoring is taking place) is that I can't see the motive either. What would be the point? (For the Newspapers)

Can't even hazard a guess.

But then why would fuckhead himself, Photoshop his noggin onto various costumes, altering the facial features in the process? Leaving other elements, like the gloved hands, intact? Who can say?

[Harvey]

@stickdog99

Answers some questions but begs a lot of other ones, doesn't it?

[barracuda]

Wow. There's our explanation for no audio or video from the island. The article doesn't say so, but I assume all the technology was seized before it ever left the island.

Don't you sort of have to wonder if most of the cell phones that went in the water weren't damaged? Or do you really think they searched the survivors as they were leaving the island?

Here's an eyewitness account by a survivor. Notice during the account how many times she attempted to take a picture of the killer, and notice as well exactly what happened to her cell phone.

Here's another. No mention of a search or phone confiscation.

It sounds to me as if the police are keeping the phones and computers that were left on the island after it was evacuated. From the article:

"Apart from that, we'll try to give all other personal belongings to the families and people who got hurt, but in close dialogue with AUF (the Labour Part youth wing) to make it as decent as possible," he added.

But then why would fuckhead himself, Photoshop his noggin onto various costumes, altering the facial features in the process? Leaving other elements, like the gloved hands, intact? Who can say?

Hey Harvey - I have about twenty years of professional PhotoShop experience. Can you point out exactly what makes you think Breivik photoshopped his head onto costumes in those pictures? Because I've looked pretty hard, and I don't see it.

[lupercal]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Special-police-unit-for-attacks-probe/Article1-728114.aspx

The Oslo police said on Monday they were setting up a special unit to investigate the twin attacks of July 22 and had collected phones, cameras and computers from the island of Utoeya for the investigation. Setting up a new special unit "is not something we do a lot, but in a case like this that is so big and needs so much resources it's necessary," said prosecutor Paal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby, who is in charge of the Oslo police probe.

"We don't know the entire structure yet (of the new task force) but we will know in a few days," he said.

Name suggestion: Special Unit Senator?

He added police had collected all of the electronic equipment found on the island of Utoeya, where far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik has admitted gunning down 69 participants in the Labour Party youth wing's retreat.

"It was decided that all mobiles, all cameras, all iPads and all personal computers should be seized as evidence in this case," he said.

As predicted last Wednesday, July 27, right here:

Well RobinDaHood, not to pat myself on the back, but I actually asked the exact same question a couple of pages ago. I think it;s a legitimate question. There's an island with 700 teenagers and 1 killer. Noone is saying take a picture when the guy is standing in front of you, but no pictures at all being tweeted or whatever is kinda curious. People were texting and doing facebook updates. How is that so different? But like Mac said, maybe they have yet to surface.

Welcome to club crazy. They've had six days to surface and if they haven't by now, they won't, or we'll eventually get a predictable drip of doctored and blurry police shots. I also suspect cameras and cell phones were immediately confiscated from survivors "to help with the investigation" or some other malarkey. Subject: Huge explosion in Oslo

I'd gloat but what's the point? This one was obvious from the get go.

p.s. Jeff I saw your comment and will address it separately in just a bit. The point in fine is that we now have exactly one picture of the shooter, and it doesn't match the exactly one survivor's description that's been released, Martinovic's, who says he's wearing a police cap, nor does it look like Breivik. That makes at least 3 shooters: uniform in cap, no uniform, and uniformed no cap. B's linked account just above doesn't contain a description btw.

Anyway that's the gist of it but more with links later.

[barracuda]

Here's another survivor account. Listen to her description of her encounter with the shooter:

I saw one of my friends about to leap into the water, but in a second he was shot. Even at a distance I could see and hear the two shots, straight to the head. I saw his head explode, I saw how he was split apart. Panic spread like wildfire among those on land. I wanted to be among them, urging them to get away, by land or water. I even yelled: "Swim or run!", but nothing helped, there was so much other noise – both the helicopter above us and the bastard's rifle.

Oh yeah - I can see stopping to take a photo in that situation. Check the article to find out what happened to her phone.

Hundreds of people with cell phones leaving the island under police watch and not a single account of a phone confiscation. Amazing. There must be a conspiracy among the survivors not to tell about being searched by the police.

[lupercal]

Here's another survivor account.

No that's the same one, the July 27 Guardian translation of survivor Emma Martinovic's blog, where she describes the shooter as having "a police cap on his head":

He was standing there in a police uniform, he had blond hair, fair skin, a police cap on his head, and I saw his weapon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... a-massacre

So as of now we have exactly one photo of a Utøya shooter, this one, and squinting or not I can't see either Breivik or Martinovic's police cap, which of course is what I was looking for, not "a Jew":



And since this man clearly isn't Breivik, who appears to be about 5'10" and has closely cropped hair from what I could see in the red-sweater video, we have at least three different shooters, four counting Breivik: 1) the uniformed bald one in the photo; 2) the dark-haired un-uniformed one described by survivors in Mac's links; and 3) the uniformed capped man described by Martinovic, who could possibly be Breivik, though I think it unlikely Breivik did much or any shooting for reasons I've stated earlier.

The other point that's important to make is that "Breivik's" English-only manifesto is nothing but a red herring, just like "Breivik's" English-only video, and was clearly not written by a Norwegian potato farmer with a high school education, unless he's been busy studying Marcuse, Adorno, Gramsci, Lukacs and the Frankfurt School in English translation and then writing detailed book reports with analyses of the undergraduate curriculum at Stanford, all in perfectly correct English, as in this paragraph from page 24:

Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of the politically correct assault on the curriculum is
that it has occurred at many of our elite universities. Take, for example, the case of
Stanford University, an institution that has long played a leadership role in American
higher education. Stanford eliminated its long-standing Western civilisation requirement
in 1988 and replaced it with a multicultural program known as “Cultures, Ideas, and
Values.” Under this new program freshmen at Stanford can just as easily study Marxist
revolutionaries in Central America as they can Plato, Shakespeare, or Newton.
Stanford has also led the movement away from serious study of history. Students at
Stanford, like students at all but one of the other top 50 universities in the United States,
are not required to take a single course in history. Instead, they are offered a choice of
courses under the heading of “American Cultures.” According to one recent graduate at
Stanford, it is impossible to fulfill the “American Cultures” requirement by studying
Protestantism, Irish Americans, or the American West, while courses that do fulfill the
requirement include “Film and Literature: US-Mexico Border Representations” and
“Contemporary Ethnic Drama.” Stanford students must also take courses in “World
Cultures” and “Gender Studies” that include “Chicana Expressive Culture” and “Misogyny
and Feminism in the Renaissance.”

http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-conte ... ndence.pdf

How long was Mr. Potato Farm at Stanford again?

[Bruce Dazzling]

Wow. There's our explanation for no audio or video from the island. The article doesn't say so, but I assume all the technology was seized before it ever left the island.

Don't you sort of have to wonder if most of the cell phones that went in the water weren't damaged? Or do you really think they searched the survivors as they were leaving the island?

Here's an eyewitness account by a survivor. Notice during the account how many times she attempted to take a picture of the killer, and notice as well exactly what happened to her cell phone.

Here's another. No mention of a search or phone confiscation.

It sounds to me as if the police are keeping the phones and computers that were left on the island after it was evacuated. From the article:

"Apart from that, we'll try to give all other personal belongings to the families and people who got hurt, but in close dialogue with AUF (the Labour Part youth wing) to make it as decent as possible," he added.

But then why would fuckhead himself, Photoshop his noggin onto various costumes, altering the facial features in the process? Leaving other elements, like the gloved hands, intact? Who can say?

Hey Harvey - I have about twenty years of professional PhotoShop experience. Can you point out exactly what makes you think Breivik photoshopped his head onto costumes in those pictures? Because I've looked pretty hard, and I don't see it.

Do you see any evidence of tampering in either of these, 'cuda?

Why are the press still messing with photos?

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

I suspect that the story floated about 'plastic surgery to look more Aryan' is disinfo meant to address the internet suspicion of photoshopping his online caricature.

[barracuda]

a Norwegian potato farmer with a high school education,

I'm not sure where you got that point regarding Breivik's education. See here, where he is said to have a master’s degree in business administration, and here, where it is noted that he received a business degree form the Oslo School of Management. Also here, and here.

No that's the same one, the July 27 Guardian translation of survivor Emma Martinovic's blog, where she describes the shooter as having "a police cap on his head"

Sorry, you're quite correct. However, my point stands. Dum-dum bullets produce horrific injuries, and the panic on the island must have been considerable and intense. However, if you can find an account from among the hundreds of survivors of the confiscation of their phones, I'd be interested in reading it. Or an interview in which the taking of pictures is mentioned. And here's three more accounts, no mention of cell phone confiscations or picture taking oppotunities, seems they were too busy running for their lives and actually trying to save or comfort the dying and wounded. Here's another, it seems she lost her phone when disrobing or during the swim.

Regarding the weak justification of your jew-spotting, I'll simply comment that it's a shame you couldn't have invented some of that stuff at the time you made your anti-semitic remark upthread. Not that it would have been any less offensive, but perhaps more demonstrative of where some of your theories originate when viewed in the proper context.

[barracuda]

Do you see any evidence of tampering in either of these, 'cuda?

I spent some time looking, inverting, applying filters such as "find edges" and the like, and all I can honestly say is that in an image as degraded by jpeg compression artifacting as this one is, just about anything could be the case. Anyone who tells you that they know for certain that those images have been altered is confirming a bias imho, because I see nothing that jumps out at me. And we now have four separate images of the same scene, all relaying extremely similar data, with no conflicts as far as I can tell.



The image above is the oddest one, because of the frontal pose, the red eye effect and the centering of the figure within the window. But is it pasted in? To me, evidence of manipulation is unconvincing. Look closely at the bright green and red compression artifacts around his eyes. I can't for the life of me understand why these would have been inserted in a fake, they are natural occuring debris, and similar greenish flecks are found near the driver's ear and hair, in the reflection under the rearmost window, and even a bit around the thin wire antenna to the upper far left. I don't see faking it in the pixels, and don't understand the purpose or the motive that would require it. But again, it's impossible to be sure without an earlier generation image.

[8bitagent]

So this nutbag got plastic surgery to "look more Aryan"...crazy sauce