Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:45 pm

This latest Facebook post from Paul Beckwith really put NTE in perspective.

Regarding the possibility of human extinction:

Physicist Stephen Hawking had said that humans need to travel in space to other planets to ensure the long-term survival of the species. I think that his time-frame was hundreds of years. James Lovelock in Gaia and revenge of Gaia suggested that by 2100 the human population would be about 1 billion and people would mostly live near the northern pole; he has recently pulled back a little from this view. Geologists would call an extinction in hundreds or even thousands of years a near-term event. The IPCC will never suggest a date; while in the meantime show data from some outlier models indicating a temperature rise of as high as 10 C by 2100; who thinks humanity can survive that? So is the IPCC saying we will not make it? Guy McPherson has said dates like 2060, 2050, and even 2030; so basically very soon.

Maybe we can ask some better, or more detailed questions rather than debate/argue extinction or no-extinction, which is basically all-or-nothing, black or white binary thinking? A cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) view states that this mode of binary thinking is highly irrational; there are many shades of grey in reality.

What global temperature rise can our civilization withstand? 3 degrees C? 5 degrees C. 10 degrees C. Rate of change is clearly a factor. 5 degrees C in 10 years may be much worse than 10 degrees C in a century? We can ask the same questions for extinction, which does not necessarily occur with collapse. Rather than extinction it makes sense to talk about percentage of extinction. What does your graph of global population versus temperature rise look like? And your graph of temperature rise versus time? Combining these two graphs gives population versus time. Does anybody truly believe that population will reach 9 or 10 billion as many demographers state? I call BS; none of those numbers consider abrupt climate change. We must also remember that a large mortality rate is a strong negative feedback as far as climate change is concerned. It is much easier for climate change to knock-off the first 6 billion than the last billion, for example...


One particular point that I thought was excellent regards the binary thinking surrounding NTE and civilization being an "all-or-nothing" proposition. Mentally, I keep going back to Ruppert and this quote in the last part of Apocalypse, Man sticks: "There is going to be a die-off. That is a balancing. That cannot be averted. I cannot offer some happy Pollyanna solution to that. Love is the only vibration that's a higher vibration than fear. Our physical reality is a product of our consciousness which is a product of what we carry in our hearts. And if we carry fear in our hearts, to the point where the consciousness is one of fear, then all we would manifest would be more destruction. The means to save, to resurrect, to make amends with, to reconcile with, to heal ourselves with Mother Earth and everything that lives here, will only become available to us once we realize that cooperation rather than competition, that love rather than fear is the only state of consciousness in which we can successfully live, and lo and behold, those are the ways our ancestors lived 40,000 years ago."
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:49 pm

Heavy.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby DrEvil » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:52 pm

Asteroid impact risks 'underappreciated'

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27039285
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu May 22, 2014 5:08 pm

Has anyone here read Six Degrees by Mark Lynas? Just curious, I saw it referenced by someone else on Paul Beckwith's Facebook page:

My estimation comes from Mark Linus' book "6 Degrees", where he describes the Permian conditions under similar temperatures of 6 degrees increased over baseline: spontaneously generated hypersonic methane fireballs rocketing out of the sky and incinerating everything in their path. Hypercanes (not Hurricanes) which pound coastal areas for days with enough water to wash out every living thing for dozens of kilometers inland. Giant 70 foot sea level rises which turn most great cities into Atlantis. 130-40 daytime temperatures. Lifeless, acidic oceans with hot tub temperatures. This is at 6 degree, which is what some members of Hadley and IPCC have predicted by 2100 or sooner. If we go anywhere above 6, then in my opinion you can just pretty much kiss it all goodbye and make a wish and a prayer that any life at all will exist.
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby justdrew » Thu May 22, 2014 9:44 pm

obviously the need for urgent and massive carbon sequestration is as clear as can be.

and swarms of millions of parasol satellites giving the poles some shade.

these two activities must immediately become the primary guiding principle of human civilization, and anyone or anything that stands in the way of this reorganization must be utterly and remorselessly destroyed.
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:25 pm

I wasn't sure which thread to put this in. I may cross-post later, but I thought at this juncture it would fit best here.

Peak Energy & Resources, Climate Change, and the Preservation of Knowledge

Dennis Meadows Collapse inevitable 2015-2020
Posted on June 3, 2014 by energyskeptic

[Dennis Meadows spoke at the ASPO peak oil conference 2006 in Pisa Italy. Many of the scientists and speakers said Meadows was right about Limits to Growth in their presentations -- indeed, his model appeared to be ahead of schedule. Meadows hates to give dates, but when pressed, did say that although he thought 2030 the most likely time-frame for collapse back in 1972 based on various model projections, the exponential use of resources and population growth appeared to have moved the time-frame forward to around 2020. At the "Limits to Growth" conference in 2014 he said the time-frame appears to be 2015-2020].

Dennis Meadows is a co-author of The Limits to Growth. In 1972, the team of 66 scientists he assembled for the original Limits to Growth study concluded the most probable result will be a rather sudden and uncontrollable decline in both population and industrial capacity.

Dmitry Orlov on Dennis Meadow’s presentation at the Age Of Limits conference 2014: “Dennis had agreed to present at this conference reluctantly. He has retired from Club of Rome discussions, and has found more cheerful uses for his time. But he seemed happy with the outcome, saying that this is the first time he faced an audience that did not need convincing. Instead, he took the time to add some details that I think are crucially important, among them the fact that his WORLD3 model is only accurate until the peaks are reached. Once the peaks occur (between 2015 and 2020) all bets are off: past that point, the model’s predictive ability is not to be relied on because the assumptions on which it relies will no longer be valid.”

At the 2014 Age of Limits conference he also said that in 1972 we had reached about 85% of Earth’s carrying capacity and today we are about 125%, and every month we delay in getting back within limits erodes Earth’s further ability to tolerate us. “The reason we don’t have a response to climate change,” he said, “is not because we don’t have better models. It’s because people don’t care about climate change.” That may be our epitaph.

“In 1972 there were two possible options provided for going forward — overshoot or sustainable development. Despite myriad conferences and commissions on sustainable development since then, the world opted for overshoot. The two-leggeds hairless apes did what they always have done. They dominated and subdued Earth. Faced with unequivocable evidence of an approaching existential threat, they equivocated and then attempted to muddle through.

Global civilization will only be the first of many casualties of the climate the Mother Nature now has coming our way at a rate of change exceeding any comparable shift in the past 3 million years, save perhaps the meteors or supervolcanoes that scattered our ancestors into barely enough breeding pairs to be able to revive. This change will be longer lived and more profound than many of those phenomena. We have fundamentally altered the nitrogen, carbon and potassium cycles of the planet. It may never go back to an ecosystem in which bipedal mammals with bicameral brains were possible. Or, not for millions of years”.

Video Presentation starts at 17:30, slides below

http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2012/ ... s-meadows/

It Is Too Late For Sustainable Development

Smithsonian Institution Washington, DC; February 29, 2012

I will briefly describe what we did in 1970 – 1972 and summarize the main contributions of our study.
Then I will describe five reasons it is too late to achieve sustainable development.

Public discourse has difficulty with subtle, conditional messages.
Growth advocates change the justification for their paradigm rather than changing the paradigm itself.
The global system is now far above its carrying capacity.
We act as if technological change can substitute for social change.
The time horizon of our current system is too short.

As a result, I will suggest that it is essential now to put more emphasis on raising the resilience of the system.

What we did

A team of 16 people worked under my direction to elaborate a computer model representing the causes and consequences of growth in the main physical factors characterizing global development over the period 1900 – 2100. The model was first conceived by Jay Forrester, who described it in his book, World Dynamics. My team wrote and published 3 additional books on the project, The Limits to Growth, Toward Global Equilibrium, and

Dynamics of Growth in a Finite World.

Our focus was on:

Population Nonrenewable resources

Industrial goods Persistent pollution

Food


Our Main Contributions

We did NOT prove that there are limits to physical growth on a finite planet. We assumed it.
We did present information about a variety of physical limits- water, soils, metals, and other resources – in order to make the idea of limits plausible.
We described the reasons growth of population and industrial output is inherently exponential.
We showed that exponential growth quickly rises to any conceivable limit.
Our computer scenarios demonstrated that prevailing growth policies will lead to overshoot and collapse, not asymptotic approach to limits.
We suggested that changes in the policies could lead to a sustainable state, if the changes dealt with both cultural and technical issues and were implemented soon.



The Limits to Growth presented 12 scenarios. Four of them showed a relatively attractive global equilibrium without any collapse. However, it was written in the New York Times: “It is no coincidence that all the simulations based on the Meadows world model invariably end in collapseThe Limits to Growth, Peter Passell, Marc Roberts, and Leonard Ross, New York Times, April 2, 1972

We said: “These graphs are not exact predictions of the values of the variables at any particular year in the future. They are indications of the system’s behavioral tendencies only. P. 93, The Limits to Growth

However a Google today search on “the Club of Rome predicted” yields 13,700 hits, for example: “In 1972 Limits to Growth, published by the Club of Rome, predicted that the world will run out of gold in 1981, mercury in 1985, tin by 1987, zinc by 1990, petroleum by 1992, and copper, lead and natural gas by 1993”.

Growth advocates change the justification for their paradigm rather than changing the paradigm itself. “At every single stage – from its biased arrival to its biased encoding, to organizing it around false logic, to misremembering and then misrepresenting it to others, the mind continually acts to distort information flow in favor of the usual good goal of appearing better than one really is“, Page 139, in The Folly of Fools; The Logic of Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life, Robert Trivers, Basic Books, New York, NY 2011

Evolution of the criticisms

1970s: There are no effective limits.
1980s: There are limits, but they are far away.
1990s: The limits are near, but technology and markets can evade them easily.
2000s: Technology and markets do not always evade the limits, but the best policy is still to pursue GNP growth, so we will have more resources to solve problems.
2010s: If we had been able to sustain economic growth, we would not have had trouble with the limits.



Given enough energy, minerals might be reclaimed from under the sea, or from seawater itself. A virtually infinite source of energy, the controlled nuclear fusion of hydrogen, will probably be tapped within 50 years. “The Limits to Growth”, by Peter Passell, Marc Roberts and Leonard Ross, New York Times, April 2, 1972.

“natural resources are not finite in any meaningful economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather are expanding through human ingenuity. p. 24, Julian L. Simon, The Ultimate Resource2, Princeton University Press, Princeton, NJ, 1996


The global system is now far above its carrying capacity


Image


Avoiding collapse will require a longer time horizon than our current system provides.



The Easy Oil is Gone

Oil discoveries peaked in 1960s.
Every year since 1984 oil consumption has exceeded oil discovery.
In 2009 discoveries were about 5 billion barrels (bb); consumption was about 31 bb.
Of the world’s 20 largest oil fields, 18 were discovered 1917 – 1968; 2 in the 1970s; 0 since

Global Oil Production is Nearing the End of its Plateau

1995 – 1999 + 5.5%
2000 – 2004 + 7.9 %
2005 – 2009 + 0.4 %

- data from the International Statistical Supplement – 2010 edition, International Energy Agency, p. 18

• 2010 – 2030 – 50%*

* Projection from Crude Oil – The Supply Outlook, Energy Watch Group, Feb 2008, p. 12.

By 2012, surplus oil production capacity could entirely disappear, and as early as 2015, the shortfall in output could reach nearly 10 MBD.” – U S Joint Forces Command, Joint Operating Environment Report, February, 2010

“Peak Oil Production May Already be Here,” - Science, p. 1510, Vol 331, March 25, 2011

It is essential now to put more emphasis on raising the resilience of the system. It is essential now to start changing our behavior

=====================================

Mukerjee, M. 23 May 2012. Apocalypse Soon: Has Civilization Passed the Environmental Point of No Return? Scientific American.

Meadows holds that collapse is now all but inevitable, but that its actual form will be too complex for any model to predict. “Collapse will not be driven by a single, identifiable cause simultaneously acting in all countries,” he observes. “It will come through a self-reinforcing complex of issues”—including climate change, resource constraints and socioeconomic inequality. When economies slow down, Meadows explains, fewer products are created relative to demand, and “when the rich can’t get more by producing real wealth they start to use their power to take from lower segments.” As scarcities mount and inequality increases, revolutions and socioeconomic movements like the Arab Spring or Occupy Wall Street will become more widespread—as will their repression.

Many observers protest that such apocalyptic scenarios discount human ingenuity. Technology and markets will solve problems as they show up, they argue. But for that to happen, contends economist Partha Dasgupta of the University of Cambridge in the U.K., policymakers must guide technology with the right incentives. As long as natural resources are underpriced compared with their true environmental and social cost—as long as, for instance, automobile consumers do not pay for lives lost from extreme climatic conditions caused by warming from their vehicles’ carbon emissions—technology will continue to produce resource-intensive goods and worsen the burden on the ecosystem, Dasgupta argues. “You can’t expect markets to solve the problem,” he says. Randers goes further, asserting that the short-term focus of capitalism and of extant democratic systems makes it impossible not only for markets but also for most governments to deal effectively with long-term problems such as climate change.

“We’re in for a period of sustained chaos whose magnitude we are unable to foresee,” Meadows warns. He no longer spends time trying to persuade humanity of the limits to growth. Instead, he says, “I’m trying to understand how communities and cities can buffer themselves” against the inevitable hard landing.
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby Sounder » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:28 pm

Good on you for going back to Ruppert on this issue stillrobertpaulson. I have not read this thread as its not my cup of tea, but still feel like suggesting that while this increasingly brittle coercion culture will be extinct in one hundred years, humans will not. A change in styles in expressions of consciousness from objects over to relationships, would surely cut commodity demands easily in half. Current metrics will not apply to the future that is in store for us.


One particular point that I thought was excellent regards the binary thinking surrounding NTE and civilization being an "all-or-nothing" proposition. Mentally, I keep going back to Ruppert and this quote in the last part of Apocalypse, Man sticks: "There is going to be a die-off. That is a balancing. That cannot be averted. I cannot offer some happy Pollyanna solution to that. Love is the only vibration that's a higher vibration than fear. Our physical reality is a product of our consciousness which is a product of what we carry in our hearts. And if we carry fear in our hearts, to the point where the consciousness is one of fear, then all we would manifest would be more destruction. The means to save, to resurrect, to make amends with, to reconcile with, to heal ourselves with Mother Earth and everything that lives here, will only become available to us once we realize that cooperation rather than competition, that love rather than fear is the only state of consciousness in which we can successfully live, and lo and behold, those are the ways our ancestors lived 40,000 years ago."


We all need to take it to heart.

justdrew wrote…
obviously the need for urgent and massive carbon sequestration is as clear as can be.

and swarms of millions of parasol satellites giving the poles some shade.

these two activities must immediately become the primary guiding principle of human civilization, and anyone or anything that stands in the way of this reorganization must be utterly and remorselessly destroyed.


Yeeah, uh, no thanks.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby justdrew » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:57 pm

so Sounder, you'd rather just wait around for everything to die?

which, if we just halted 99% of all CO2 emiisions tommorow would still likely happen (disregarding the massive starvation, civil breakdown, and meltdowns that would ensure?)
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby Sounder » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:02 pm

so Sounder, you'd rather just wait around for everything to die?


Fortunately I have no need to cry for one million parasols, 'and anyone or anything that stands in the way of this reorganization must be utterly and remorselessly destroyed' or to just wait around for everything to die. What an odd choice you would like me to make. Is this a Skinner test or something?

In my opinion, our problems derive from scientific materialism and its blood brother western exceptionalism, and I do not see how more of the same is going to fix anything.
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby justdrew » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:55 pm

Sounder » 05 Jun 2014 18:02 wrote:
so Sounder, you'd rather just wait around for everything to die?


Fortunately I have no need to cry for one million parasols, 'and anyone or anything that stands in the way of this reorganization must be utterly and remorselessly destroyed' or to just wait around for everything to die. What an odd choice you would like me to make. Is this a Skinner test or something?

In my opinion, our problems derive from scientific materialism and its blood brother western exceptionalism, and I do not see how more of the same is going to fix anything.


well, I guess you don't understand the situation. Let me recap: the energy balance is already way out of whack, if we emitted not one more CO2 molecule, sufficient damage has already been done to ensure that MOST life on earth is doomed. Right now. We made the mess, only we can pick it up.
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby minime » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:17 pm

How might planetary albedo resolve some of the issues in question here? Which ones and which not?
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby Ben D » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:33 am

justdrew » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:55 pm wrote: Let me recap: the energy balance is already way out of whack, if we emitted not one more CO2 molecule, sufficient damage has already been done to ensure that MOST life on earth is doomed. Right now. We made the mess, only we can pick it up.

Drew...you may like to read this....Deserts 'greening' from rising CO2

Image

Satellite data shows the per cent amount that foliage cover has changed around the world from 1982 to 2010.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby Sounder » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:28 am

well, I guess you don't understand the situation.


While there are many limits to my understanding, I still do understand a few things.

For instance, I understand that our split model of reality allows for and encourages endless varieties of manipulation. My understanding is that trying to rise above these kinds of expressions of consciousness can bring out a vicious element in people that are addicted to one form of manipulation or another.

justdrew, your post,

obviously the need for urgent and massive carbon sequestration is as clear as can be.

and swarms of millions of parasol satellites giving the poles some shade.

these two activities must immediately become the primary guiding principle of human civilization, and anyone or anything that stands in the way of this reorganization must be utterly and remorselessly destroyed.


is an expression, of and represents the tenets of scientific materialism and western exceptionalism so faithfully that, you know,- we’re not living on the same planet.

Now, yawl can continue to tell others what sounder thinks, like when you insinuate that I’m just waiting for everything to die, and many other statements (over time and from several posters) asserting facts not in evidence, in regard to my internal mental world.

Anyway and for the record I’m just waiting for people to live, not die. As it stands most folk are walking bundles of manipulated pretenses, we live in our heads and have become willfully divorced from the value of our somatic (bodily) experience. This is an inhibiting factor in regard to the evolution of consciousness.

We learn to live when we see reality (nature) as a continuum rather than as being split. That is how our psyches are to be healed. Getting on board is much more pleasant than is resisting the inevitable.

There is a better world waiting.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby Rory » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:56 am

Ben D » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:33 am wrote:
justdrew » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:55 pm wrote: Let me recap: the energy balance is already way out of whack, if we emitted not one more CO2 molecule, sufficient damage has already been done to ensure that MOST life on earth is doomed. Right now. We made the mess, only we can pick it up.

Drew...you may like to read this....Deserts 'greening' from rising CO2

Image

Satellite data shows the per cent amount that foliage cover has changed around the world from 1982 to 2010.


Further confirmation that BenD is a troll.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwe ... ganisation

They are propagandists for big business - Big Fossil Fuels, AgriCorps, GM food, BigPharma, Patent gangsterism, Climate Change denial, etc.. And apparently they have a culture of misogyny and workplace bullying and harassment.

LULZ - Business As Usual is helping the planet grow! Poisoning the living flora and fauna is helping them live! Killing you with love - namaste
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Re: Human race 'will be extinct within 100 years'

Postby norton ash » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:09 am

BenD, you are really terrible. Keep celebrating, idiot, I'll share my water with you on the dry road someday.
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