Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby FourthBase » Thu May 02, 2013 6:03 pm

compared2what? wrote:
FourthBase wrote:Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but it came to me suddenly last night, watching local coverage of the three roommates' defense attorneys, and I do not intend this right now to be a moral judgment, just a factual observation, although obviously there are some, uh, moral judgments awaiting some of these people someday, even if they never arrive. Here it goes:

More or less than half of all attorneys are, by definition, crisis actors. Literally.
They are always emerging to perform for someone else in a crisis.
Logically, about 50% of them are full of shit, give or take 25%?
Like, necessarily full of shit. Lying. Professionally. Yes? No?


:)

They're definitely actors who can do a little crisis-acting when called for.

I'm not sure all of them are professional liars, though. They kind of go with the style that suits their natural strengths best. The ideal would probably be the criminal defense attorney who had such consummate showmanship that he/she could tell the truth in a way that left the impression of the right falsehood.

I think you're onto something, though. And not just for criminal defense attorneys and prosecutors, either. All litigators. They're showboats.


No, they are almost all professionally trained to be able to lie well. And the ones who practice in court are all professionally trained to be able to act semi-competently. Most who are trained so, use their training in their careers, however continuously, frequently, or occasionally. I've been briefly represented by a few lawyers in my 35 years. They don't really need much information about you or your situation in order to make your case. Why? Because, sure, they have such a grasp on core legal principles and a familiarity with so many real and hypo cases, that they can slot you into a preconceived template within minutes. Because, also, they are lifelong masters in the art of bullshit, aka, sophistry. Many lawyers, especially the premier ones, were sophists-in-training as early as middle or high school, if they were members of a forensics society or debate team. I myself probably could've been a statewide all-star for the BLS team, but I bailed after our first practice, because arguing for something I don't believe is true makes my skin crawl, makes me feel violated, and I had no interest in that kind of competition, those kind of rewards. The best lawyers, are usually the kind of person who does. Usually. Not all of them suck. Quite a fucking few of them, rock! I worked as a low-level admin for BARBRI for about 15 years. In a minuscule, indirect way I helped give birth to tens of thousands of lawyers. Literally that many. I have no doubt that a significant percentage of those law students were good people, and I'd wager that most of them have probably stayed good people, despite the pressures to conform to a sociopathic model of behavior. Most of that significant percentage, I bet, have become good lawyers, forces for good. But the temptations are grand, man, grand. I almost felt tempted enough by 12 bucks an hour to be outsourced to Ropes & Gray as an admin, despite the claustrophobia and horrific fear of heights and powerful premonition of an imminent attack in that area of Boston. What chance does anyone stand of resisting a temptation in the form of a six-figure salary? None. Almost none, I should say. Still a chance. It's a matter of integrity, and how strong of a will you have to preserve your integrity. These kids pass the MPRE with flying colors, with few sad exceptions. But after that, it's the Wild Wild West. Shit gets dirty. And even the best of the good ones are sometimes forced, are legally-bound by professional duty, to act. To act against their conscience. To act against common decency, in the interests of a client in a crisis. Yes, it can be a noble, righteous profession. It can also be Satan's legalistic playground.
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby compared2what? » Thu May 02, 2013 8:27 pm

The practice of law is a mystery to me, for the most part. I only have any understanding the scholarly/process/if-the-law-zigs-this-way-you-go-to-the-law-that-zags-that-way part of it. So most of the times I've had some reason to talk/deal with attorneys, that's usually what we end up talking about. Because they're almost all geeks-of-a-necessity wrt their practice areas. And I'm a geek-of-all-trades-manque.

None of the first-rate (in my estimation) attorneys I've had any kind of hit-and-run encounter with struck me as liars. Strategists, yes. Liars, no. But I guess they wouldn't have. So that's not conclusive. And it only includes one member of the criminal defense bar, anyway.

I don't know. There's a lot of law. I guess I think of it as many sub-cultures, not one. Can't really argue the point, though.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby Elvis » Thu May 02, 2013 9:03 pm

FWIW WRT lawyers, an attorney friend described his job as, "I change reality into words, then talk about the words."

I don't know if that's original, but it seems fairly accurate.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby chump » Mon May 06, 2013 7:15 pm

Crisis Actors' role playing websites.

http://www.iifdata.com/core-competencie ... r-support/
List of upcoming events.
Upcoming Events

5/15/2013
Nebraska, May 2013

5/16/2013
Florida, May 2013

6/18/2013
Illinois, June 2013

6/25/2013
Alabama, June 2013

7/16/2013
Colorado, July 2013

8/26/2013
California, August 2013

Scenario-Specific (customized) Mass Casualty Cards and Wounds:

CBRNE EVENTS
Anthrax
Ricin
Sarin Gas
Sodium Hydroxide
Arsine
Phosgene
Chlorine
Anhydrous Ammonia
Radiation (Cesium-137)
Mustard Gas
Sulfuric Acid
Ammonium Nitrate

WOUNDS/SYMPTOMS
Amputations
Open & Closed Fractures
Lacerations
Abrasions
1st, 2nd & 3rd Degree Burns
Puncture Wounds
Dislocated Shoulder
Contusions / Bruising
Shock & Anxiety
Smoke Inhalation
Sucking Chest Wounds
Flap Wounds


http://www.aedsuperstore.com/simulaids- ... MgodehUAVw

http://www.strategicri.com/role-playing.cfm

http://www.imagebam.com/image/2786c4236353772

http://www.strategic-operations.com/new ... eparedness

Strategic Operations Helps Boston with Disaster Preparedness
May 3, 2013
Boston Is One of the Best Prepared U.S. Cities to Handle a Crisis
Henry Grabar Apr 19, 2013
Witnesses repeatedly described the scene Monday at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, where two bomb blasts ripped through a crowd of spectators, as unimaginable. Security experts called Friday's citywide "shelter-in-place" order unprecedented, and onlookers could only compare the siege in Watertown, where soldiers, SWAT teams, helicopters and armored Humvees cordoned off a large swath of the neighborhood, to a movie.
But emergency management personnel in the Boston region had not only been imagining such a complex scenario, they had been rehearsing it.
Over the past two years, area hospitals had sent teams of doctors and nurses to citywide training exercises and run internal drills for mass casualty incidents like bombs, plane crashes, and fires. Vivid, citywide disaster simulations – conducted in 2011 and 2012 – put hundreds of officials through hypothetical 24-hour crisis situations. Boston is one of four U.S. cities whose all-hazards plan has been accredited by EMAP , the national emergency planning evaluation program...


referenced above:

http://www.bostonurbanshield.org/
http://www.emaponline.org/index.php?opt ... Itemid=139
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby FourthBase » Mon May 06, 2013 8:03 pm

Intriguing, chump.

As I said either above or elsewhere, there is theoretically a legitimate use for such crisis actors, for such drills. Let's say I had taken that job and was on my smoke break across from the Pru, and the second blast takes off my leg (in the sense that I definitely have a leg, full of bone and blood and skin, not a detachable prosthetic to be "taken off", but rather the leg I was born with, ripped from the rest of my body by the force of an explosion) and so would I rather be helped by an EMT who's never had experience in a simulation of that scenario featuring amputee-actors and fake blood, or helped by an EMT who has had that experience? The latter, please.

Still, those drills listed...

CBRNE EVENTS
Anthrax
Ricin
Sarin Gas
Sodium Hydroxide
Arsine
Phosgene
Chlorine
Anhydrous Ammonia
Radiation (Cesium-137)
Mustard Gas
Sulfuric Acid
Ammonium Nitrate


If I were in those cities on those days, I'd fucking scram, lol, because I'm paranoid and because there is no imaginary track record of drills of that kind coinciding -- just, you know, coinciding -- with what later turns out to be a real fucking terroristic disaster. Well, now, the exact extent to which they are "real" can be debated, considered. For example, what the fuck is up with WTC7? If we're asked to accept the official narrative about WTC7 as reality, then one would only be exercising common sense by refusing to accept it wholesale, "Fuck that, the official narrative about WTC7 isn't real." Correct. But, how is it not real? To what extent is it unreal? Which specific elements are not real? What is really real, what is a mixture of real and unreal, what is totally unreal?

So, here, with this marathon bombing, I would implore any would-be hoaxers to forget the idea of a "hoax", and instead focus on very specific individuals and very specific square feet of space. Poor 'ol Jeff, not only did he get his fucking legs blown off, but now he has to deal with deranged questions about whether he had only been acting. But, yes, he will have to deal, like a grown man, whose feelings might be hurt by the insinuations but who appreciates the sometimes-lunatic necessity to inspect every possibility in the pursuit of truth, feelings being but a small price to pay, and I think Jeff is man enough to realize that, and won't let the craziest questions get to him. Likewise with Carlos Arrendondo, whose bloody flag that night, which he showed every newser who interviewed him like it was already a historic artifact, instantly got me thinking about all the craven fools who would be sure to accuse him of being an actor in a staged purely-theatrical event. Because, well, to these craven fools, why else would someone happen to be carrying around a flag and have the sense to use it as a tourniquet after having had the improbable bravery to venture into the mayhem in order to help and oh, he just happens to have this heartbreaking story involving a dead military son and another dead son who overdosed on grief. That's what endless cynicism does to you, it blinds you to even the possibility of heroism, of pride, of beautiful coincidence.

But, hey now, who is this? Why, it's Tyler Hood! Sergeant Tyler Hood! (Consults articles on him...) Oh, no, wait, correction: Tyler Hood is not a war-tested battle-scarred Sergeant. He's just played one in two separate circumstances which wound up getting major press, once where he comforted a wounded girl in a medical tent just a few weeks ago, and long before elsewhere in America when he wrestled a robbery perp and caught the eye of a Marine who had a big role on the show Stars Earn Stripes and whose close circle of colleagues and friends included Chris Kyle and Sarah Palin, but no, he's not the veteran he seems to have a hard time not claiming himself to be. You want to examine a crisis actor? My first suggestion is Tyler Hood.

My second suggestion is Ben Thorndike, crisis photographer/businessman.

My third suggestion would probably be Rudy Giuliani, crisis actor extraordinaire.

But if you must, if you must scour photos for proof that the people we've seen in the news bravely rehabbing from amputations actually had real legs before the blast, then you must, and I will not object. Just try to be reasonable about it. You never know, it may be a situation where 99% of the people hurt that day were actually hurt that day, but that there may be a handful of strategically-placed actors for effect and story-reinforcement. I am discounting no possibilities. But if that's the case, then you must keep in mind, that people were, in fact, hurt, very badly, maybe so badly they have no legs, maybe so badly they're dead, and they have family. So, be reasonable, as reasonable as this line of inquiry can possibly be.
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby Elihu » Mon May 06, 2013 9:39 pm

But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby compared2what? » Mon May 06, 2013 9:46 pm

If I were in those cities on those days, I'd fucking scram, lol, because I'm paranoid and because there is no imaginary track record of drills of that kind coinciding -- just, you know, coinciding -- with what later turns out to be a real fucking terroristic disaster


There's a very extensive track record of emergency drills of that kind that never went live as either real or hoaxes, though.



Just for the sake of example.

So they don't actually have as much predictive value.as they appear to when you just single out the ones that came to your attention because they co-occurred with emergencies that had already happened without having any discernible impact on how they went down.

When the drill has implications for how the emergency played out, that's potentially a different legitimate question, though. Correlation/causation, etc.
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby FourthBase » Tue May 07, 2013 12:13 am

Good points, c2w?, the vast, vast majority do not go live.
But iI the particular drill and live event match up, then it's time to paranoia. :bs:
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby FourthBase » Tue May 07, 2013 12:22 am

Elihu wrote:http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr114.html


That is just not good analysis.
Good analysis is complete.

That's just enough facts and evidence to encourage one vein of thought.
It's selectively tying just a few things together and "seeing" dubious things in order to angst-wank.

The usual hoaxer methodology doesn't impress me, to say the least.
Claiming that legs seemingly blown off is all theater? Requires better work, better thought.

This is the kind of stuff which, if presented to a type of Bostonian, would elicit a face-punch.
Hoaxers, if you're gonna get yer hoax on, at least be better at it, be truly scientific, measured.
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby barracuda » Tue May 07, 2013 1:06 am

Elihu wrote:http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr114.html


tl;dr, the blood in the photos didn't look quite right to me so it's all fake.
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby FourthBase » Tue May 07, 2013 1:38 am

barracuda wrote:
Elihu wrote:http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr114.html


tl;dr, the blood in the photos didn't look quite right to me so it's all fake.


Yeah, that. Pretty much.

Hoaxers gonna hoaxify? Then they need to do it better. Because they be sucking.
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby Elihu » Tue May 07, 2013 11:44 am

tl;dr, the blood in the photos didn't look quite right to me so it's all fake.
what was it mark twain said? in every lie there is wheat among the chaff? well, no one will be able to say the questions weren't pointed out to them. since the critical mass of courage and perception seemingly will not restrain the empire i see two choices being offered to the marks: getting ratted on or doing the ratting. you may choose the ephemeral safety of the herd. but you're still in the herd.

did you see the cover of sports illustrated and the inserts? solid gold that stuff...
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby barracuda » Tue May 07, 2013 12:14 pm

Elihu wrote:
tl;dr, the blood in the photos didn't look quite right to me so it's all fake.
what was it mark twain said? in every lie there is wheat among the chaff?


If I may take this moment to hazard a backward-glancing biographical assessment, Mark Twain would have considered the article you linked as complete fucking pablum. Did Dave McGowan write that slobber? If so, he has incredibly descended to a new level of uselessness, something I would not have thought possible before encountering it. There are enough oversights, omissions, selective judgements and confirmation biases within it to qualify it as a syllabus on logical fallacy.

well, no one will be able to say the questions weren't pointed out to them.


I didn't notice any questions being raised in the article. What I read was a badly written science fiction short story, largely plagiarized from John Varley's "Air Raid". The author's view of the intellectual level of his general readership is hilarious, but probably accurate.

since the critical mass of courage and perception seemingly will not restrain the empire i see two choices being offered to the marks: getting ratted on or doing the ratting. you may choose the ephemeral safety of the herd. but you're still in the herd.


NIce "sheeple" reference you've got there. What herd are you in?

did you see the cover of sports illustrated and the inserts? solid gold that stuff...


It's been decades since I've been surprised to see the national security state making lemonade from lemons.
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue May 07, 2013 2:36 pm

Elihu wrote:http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr114.html


The questions raised in the analysis of the photos are some of the same that I had upon seeing them. It is 'dangerous' to even state that publicly, I know, which is to me the most disconcerting aspect of our times. Government sponsored terror, illegal wars, mass media manipulation, government minders (for Canadian Scientists at least) and the economic apartheid being waged in almost every country of the globe are all horrifying. The fact that people are willing to stand by and let it happen and even to berate their fellow citizens for questioning is even more so. But as you've said, Elihu, one can either be a rat or be ratted on. So many rats depress me.

The oddities and inconsistencies with the official story that that series of photos exposes needs to be examined, IMO. there is nothing to be gained by listening to the FBI and its admonitions to 'only look at official photos and no others!'

it's true that that one black girl had no blood on her for the entire series of photos up until she was on a gurney. That right there is odd. It's similarly very strange that cowboy hat guy is just standing around doing nothing, hoody guy is lying on the pavement propped up on one elbow, lounging, and that the blond doesn't move from her spot neither to help, to check her own injuries, or to be aided in any way. I don't know what I'm seeing at the top of the amputee's leg, but it doesn't look fleshy or fabric. The lack of blood, too. There are other things - lots of other things.

To be told we can't question or we risk physical violence is outrageous. I find it difficult to believe that people can't see that. There is another alternative though, and it's uglier.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Crisis Actors? Post your info & WTF moments here

Postby Simulist » Tue May 07, 2013 2:47 pm

Lots of things seem odd, until there are explanations for them.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
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