Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[justdrew]

well, not everyone is dead right? They're still looking for the driver/lookout right?

anyway, I doubt the found ID was a real shooter on the day of the event, likely it was misdirection to lead away from the real perps. Very possible the person in the ID knew ahead of time to expect the event, and so 'sacrificed' themselves to allow the others to 'get away'

Or they just picked a couple likely patsies off the watch lists and printed off an id card and claimed to have found it.

They may have got the real shooters though. We may never know.

[elfismiles]

[justdrew]

It was known this was coming, why couldn't the Nigerian State rally an army to defend this village? WTF?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/boko-haram-kills-2000-people-in-vicious-attack-against-nigerian-village/

I just do not believe this group can not be located and destroyed in detail.

[Nordic]

'Hacktivist' group Anonymous says it will avenge Charlie Hebdo attacks by shutting down jihadist websites

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... sites.html

Yeah, all those severed heads and limbs, raped and murdered children, just wasn't that offensive ... but boy, you fuck with cartoonists...

I was the first person in my facebook group to type 'Je Suis Charlie'. Loads of people followed suit. And by today there was an Islam hating pile on, Boston Mk 2 had taken place after the helpful id exercise, murder in the kosher restaurant. I remember seeing a clip of one of the killers and thinking - this guy is way more malleable and dumb than evil. I now feel ashamed of writing that

I feel this is pure AdamCurtisLand - multiple murders by people who have an unknown degree of handling and manipulation to produce ambiguous contradictory effects for unknown ends, a world where the question of 'Who Benefits?' is answered with 'Who Cares?, just take advantage of it!'
a Game it / Play it / Fuck it over position of the Assemblage Point... from where an entire insane heartless world is being spun and woven
Kind of like Bill Hicks 'It's Just a Ride' but without either love or learning or spirit; soul-less
psychopaths manipulating all they come in contact with, sometimes for their own objectives and sometimes just because they can.

Yes. For the most part.

Then there's this:

Netanyahu warns France recognising Palestine is 'grave mistake'

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/ ... ve-mistake

In the US almost every "terror attacking" turns out to have been started and orchestrated by the FBI, using patsies of below-average mental abilities.

Why would this be different elsewhere? How many actual successful "terror" attacks are NOT this type of thing?

Israel needs terror attacks in order to justify its existence. The U.S. Security state and Industry needs them as well.

Another thought:

I am sickened more by the reaction to this whole thing than I am by the act itself. The whole "I am Charlie" sloganeering, the shares on FB and Instagram, the notion that seems pervasive here is that white European men sitting in an office are somehow more valuable than the hundreds of children, old people and women who were ruthlessly bombed to bits in Palestine. The reactions couldn't have been more different to these terror attacks, one that was committed by a few nuts/patsy/psychos and the other carried out in a systematic high-tech professional manner by a billion dollar military machine with the rabid support of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of safely ensconced fans who weren't even anywhere near the action and never have to worry about the slightest retribution.

If there were a real War on Islamic Terror that wasn't completely one-sided, what happened in Paris would be happening all the time. People like Karl Rove would never be able to go on book tours or else the bookstores hosting him would be bombed, people like John Yoo wouldn't be able to give lectures at Betekely because there would be constant and very real danger to his person and everyone near him, General Petraeus wouldn't be able to have his cushy University gigs at places like USC for the same reason. These people would be living in bunkers. It would be as much a living and terrifying hell for us as it is for the inhabitants of Gaza.

But it isn't. Because Islam must actually be an extremely peace loving teligion because those people take an enormous amount of shit and almost NEVER fight back.

[Jerky]

Amen.

I can't believe the sheer idiocy on display by a lot of the contributors to this message board, some of whom I used to think had a lick of sense at least. As someone who actually read Charlie HEBDO, knowing that probably NONE of the oh-so-sensitive "b-b-but what about the Jihadists' FEEE-LINGS?!" moral sub-mongoloids excreting their opinions here have ever read a single column inch of Charlie HEBDO further cements my opinion.

Fucking hell. It's been a goddamn depressing couple of days, I can tell you that.

Sincerely,
Jerky

the consequences of provocation by ridicule are justifiable murder? - i know thats not what you're saying.....thats how it reads

personally, i think the 'murder as just retribution for ridicule' is exactly why we should ridicule this shit into a hole in the ground.with as much abject contempt
as we can muster without (neuro-physiologically) poisoning ourselves.
Not that i'm going to do that myself, in public.
cos i'm not fucking stupid.

[Jerky]

He's accusing you of being an anti-Semite (see how he re-wrote what you wrote?).

Jerky

Who is this THEY you are talking about Joe, I need clarification on that before I can respond accordingly.

[Jerky]

The short answer to your question is YES THEY DID.

Just go to Google Images and search "Charlie Hebdo Jesus" for starters.

Why you didn't think of doing this before posting this is beyond me.

Jerky

the consequences of provocation by ridicule are justifiable murder? - i know thats not what you're saying.....thats how it reads

Im not saying it was justifiable, if it reads that way people shouldn't be reading things that aren't there. The consequences of provocation by ridicule are murder, and have been time and time again (but no that doesn't make it right.)

personally, i think the 'murder as just retribution for ridicule' is exactly why we should ridicule this shit into a hole in the ground.with as much abject contempt
as we can muster without (neuro-physiologically) poisoning ourselves.

Did Charlie Hebdo publish cartoons of Jesus or Sts Peter or Paul or Buddha on all fours naked from behind with a big star over their arses? Cos if they did and someone posts a link for me to check i'll reconsider my position that they were specifically provoking Muslims because they were Muslims, not because of the actions of some Muslims, or critical of their doctrines or whatever.

See these images:



Three of them are reasonable satire - one is awesome, one a bit racist like pre ww2 depictions of Jews - the forth is the equivalent of walking up to me and calling me a worthless black cunt, and if someone does that I'll hit them in the face as hard and as many times as i think is necessary. Fuck the consequences. And I don't think punching people in the face is remotely a good thing. It just might be the least worst thing in those circumstances.

So you know ... what do you mean by ridicule?

If you mean that cartoon of mo and the fundies above - how hard it is to be loved by idiots then i'm totally with you. If you mean stuff like mo with a star on his arse then I'm not. Cos its racist* bullshit.



*I know Islam isn't a race, or a country.

[Hunter]

As someone who writes parody and satire for a living ... the joos done it. Clear as day to me and I am shocked that more people dont see right through this.

What benefit do israel get?

They slaughtered some satirists who regularly hung shit on jews and other minorities in france, like the rich and Arabs/Muslims. And made it look like Muslims did? Because ... Palestine?

Ohh wait a minute. You were writing satire. Very well done.

Joe I dont really appreciate you putting the word "joos" in to my mouth, you said that not me, my post history is very clear that I support Israel and respect the Muslim people, my comment was simply suggesting that the elites who run the for profit war on terror have good reason to continue to vilify Islam and I believe this is part of that agenda. I support Jews, I support Muslims and I support the right for people to make satire and parody about whatever it is they wish, I am not picking any sides here, I just think, once again, we are all being played and made to believe things that are likely not what they seem to be.

[Jerky]

https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2015/0 ... -bit-late/

Kenan Malik gets is DEAD RIGHT, and in the process shames a number of participants in this ongoing (spit) "debate".

Jerky

[Jerky]

"What nurtures the reactionaries, both within Muslim communities and outside it, is the pusillanimity of many so-called liberals, their unwillingness to stand up for basic liberal principles, their readiness to betray the progressives within minority communities. On the one hand, this allows Muslim extremists the room to operate. The more that society gives licence for people to be offended, the more that people will seize the opportunity to feel offended. And the more deadly they will become in expressing their outrage. There will always be extremists who respond as the Charlie Hebdo killers did. The real problem is that their actions are given a spurious moral legitimacy by liberals who proclaim it unacceptable to give offence."

https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2015/0 ... -bit-late/

Fucking YES. YES, a thousand times YES.

Jerky

[Hunter]

https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/je-suis-charlie-its-a-bit-late/

Kenan Malik gets is DEAD RIGHT, and in the process shames a number of participants in this ongoing (spit) "debate".

Jerky

He makes an excellent point that I tried to make but he did better. To assume ALL Muslims are offended by this sort of thing is to assume all Muslims are dumb and too stupid to recognize satire for what it is and I find THAT to be more racist than the ridicule and mockery of those who produce the satire itself.

[blankly]

Regarding the dropped ID. If a person wanted to flee the scene of a crime with a reasonable chance of success in getting through the first road block or vehicle check, they'd need their ID with them. Persons who look like they have Algerian or African origin are much more likely to be stopped in Paris and asked for ID (basing this on the experience of a friend of a member of my family, who would get pulled over a few times a week, not a person who fitted any of the other categories likely to draw attention to himself btw). They crashed the first car and took a second? In changing cars at this time, dropping or forgetting papers might not seem so surprising. Also, apart from the satisfaction of being able to throw a name out to the media, I don't see how this would have critically affected the operation. They held up a petrol station, and later, at the printworks, they threw out the line about not killing civilians which sounded odd enough to raise the suspicion that they were not special forces.
We keep being told how well planned this was and how trained they were. Aside from knowing how to pull a trigger, nothing else looked remotely professional or especially brilliantly planned.
Regarding the french colonialisation douchebag bit, apparently it was photos of what the USA was doing in Iraq which was instrumental in turning one of the brothers. Its very sad. Oh also, as has been stated above Charlie Hebdo spread its satire wide.

[Nordic]

Just about an hour ago I discovered Phil Rockstroh's Facebook page. I am fond of his views. Here is one:

The structure and foundation of Western civilization rests upon the marginalization, maligning, exploitation of, and general oppression of minorities, and that is the exact political, social, and cultural construct of French society. Withal, ignoring the context of the upwelling of violence committed by hated, alienated outsiders is essential to the preservation of the European/North American order.

This is the reason we are being plied and pummeled with the evil, scary, demon-like terrorist narrative from the right and the sacred-quality-of-free-expression-must-be-preserved canard from the liberal class regarding the mortifying acts of violence upon the staff of Charlie Hebdo. Naturally, the European privilege/status quo preserving storyline of the tragedy will lack historical and cultural context.

And who benefits from limning the horrific event in such a limited manner? Hint: avert your eyes from the hideous nature of the crime for just a moment and take a glance in the direction of the economic elite of the present order and towards the operatives of the national security/surveillance/police/militarist state…that is who will benefit. You will be (falsely) accused of being an apologist for the heinous acts of the terrorists (as I have been) but it is more propitious to wend in the direction of acuity than to join a consensus-reality parade of fools and tools.

[82_28]

I wish Alice was still kickin' it in these here parts. She would be able to give us a definitive and eloquent rundown on the "average Muslim".

I had a friend who was in the Peace Corps in Morocco a number of years ago. She couldn't stop herself from saying that Muslims in reality are not what the average American or whoever thinks they are. I know that I lived around a shit ton of Muslims in my building a couple years ago. While they were annoying, because they were youthful punks, I never felt threatened. I just didn't like them because they were vandals. I chalked it up to them being young and free. I did the same kind of shit when I was a kid.

If you asked me how much I understand Mormonism I would tell you that "I've known a bunch", but do I understand it? No. Have I encountered Muslims in life? Of course. Do I understand that shit either? No. Vanilla Christians? Certainly. Raised up as a young boy to accept "Christ" and wound up rejecting it but went too far and fully embraced atheism. Now I hate strident atheism. I don't hate anyone. Rigidity is what I hate. We're all Earthlings.

Capitalism is what is to blame. When you look around when you are outside think of all the things you see that have DNA. A weed, a lawn, a tree, a bird, a frog, moss, mold, insects, hummingbirds. . . . . . . . .

The thing that totally baffles me is that we are all programmed with instructions of some sort. I watch birds all the time and I wonder how it is they know what to do once they break out of their eggs. You never see a duck, an Eagle, a sparrow just chillin' with one another saying "we're all birds here". Birds of a feather. . .

We're all on Earth.

Whatevs. Just thinking "out loud". . .

[Joe Hillshoist]

Joe I dont really appreciate you putting the word "joos" in to my mouth, you said that not me, my post history is very clear that I support Israel and respect the Muslim people, my comment was simply suggesting that the elites who run the for profit war on terror have good reason to continue to vilify Islam and I believe this is part of that agenda. I support Jews, I support Muslims and I support the right for people to make satire and parody about whatever it is they wish, I am not picking any sides here, I just think, once again, we are all being played and made to believe things that are likely not what they seem to be.

Yes I said it not you.

It was a deliberate shot at you trying to link this attack to France's support of Palestine.

About that...

Its based on what exactly?

Intuition? The stars aligning? Goose entrails? What?

Any real proof other than a desire to link this to Israel? There's barely a correlation, let alone evidence of causation. As if what Israel does isn't horrific enough on its own. They have to kill white people to legitimise how bad they are?

If you can provide some actual evidence that would be great otherwise you are just hiding potentially valid points* behind lazy thinking or worse.

*Like this:

Show me how this is just not another false flag to further villify Muslims and get the rest of the world, including France, to rethink their position of sympathy and inclusion of Muslims in to their societies.

Although to be fair you need to show how this might be a false flag attack not the other way round. It certainly benefits the far right in Europe and they have a history of this sort of thing - false flag attacks - but that's not enough on its own. That is just a motive and a history, and there are good reasons we are sposed to need more than that to convict someone of a crime.

BTW the most effective to way stop the vilification of innocent Muslims that will inevitably follow this, whether its a false flag or not, is to have no part in it but to vocally reject it. Not to vilify Israel - ffs Israel has done enough real horrific criminal shit, stuff there is actual evidence for - this board is loaded with it. Making stuff up (and thats what you and other people are doing linking this to france's support of Israel Palestine without evidence) just cheapens the response to those real crimes.

I support Jews, I support Muslims and I support the right for people to make satire and parody about whatever it is they wish, I am not picking any sides here, I just think, once again, we are all being played and made to believe things that are likely not what they seem to be.

I don't. Philipp Rupprecht style satire is not on.

We are all being played and made to believe things that are likely not what they seem to be.

Yes we are.