Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

[Hunter]

Is it really just all about money and greed...?

Yes, but control of money has a few perqs that ride along.

Youre probably right, I see that sort of greed all around me everyday among us regular folk so I dont know why it also wouldnt be the same at the top of the food chain, only worse.

[compared2what?]

can you perhaps list your reasons for hating Alex Jones - for not trusting him, for thinking he's a catalyst of some sort for terror?
and I don't mean in an emotion based, tap dancing way, I mean in a fact based way.

because it strikes me as important that we don't just write off a whole person for bombast, you know. do you know? I mean that question sincerely because honestly maybe you don't there are lots of amazing people who don't understand that. If you're one of them please notice that I'm falling all over myself to make sure you know that this is not a slight against your character

but yes a list, please. a list of anti-semetic quotes, for example. Or of outright fabrications. that would be great, if you have the time. thanks

I don't hate him. I actually like the bombast. And if he's antisemitic in a per-se way, I don't care enough that I need to know about it.

These quotes are all from the "Best Alex Jones Quotes" thread at the PrisonPlanet forum,here.

"IF YOUR'E GOING TO PUT YOUR FAMILY IN A NURSING HOME... YOU BETTER VISIT THEM AT LEAST EVERY TWO DAYS, YOU BETTER LIVE NEAR THEM, YOU BETTER BRING THEM LUNCH, YOU BETTER SIT THERE AND WATCH TV WITH THEM, YOU BETTER SIT THERE AND RUB THERE FEET AND LOVE ON YOUR PARENTS (voice raises in anger) THAT WHIPED YOUR BUTT, THAT TOOK CARE OF YOU, YOU SCUMBAG YUPPIES!!!"

-Alex Jones speaking to yuppies (and all AmeriKans for that matter)

"...SEE THEY'RE NOT YOUR FRIENDS AND THEY'RE NOT HERE TO HELP YOU (voice rises with disgust) DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!!??

-Alex Jones speaking about the state and social services

"Listen, you cops out there listening, theyre gonna get you too, theyre vaccinating your kids, you are gonna go down like the rest of us, you are NOT THEM, Youre With US"

They want to KILL you!

Do you understand?

PIG DEMONS!! PIG DEMONS, sorry I'm not just talking about you cops I call all the evil scum Pig demons, they got them little piggy eyes!

Americas stupid yuppie scum..............spending time on their hair, cars and their portfolio while the country is being sabotaged from within..............I'd like to smack those cute smiles off their faces.................ewwwwwww ahhhhhhhh....................but I digress;"

So they want to have that normal change come and say it is manmade to have a planetary government to come and save us from the crisis. Cause the truth is volcanoes blow up, glaciers suddenly form and in just a few years sea levels go up, they go down. What are they talking about? They have to have an Earth with a stable climate?
Hey baby... there isn't any stable climate. We are on a gigantic spaceship. A huge rock, a molten rock with little islands floating on top of lava.
Oh yeah...
orbiting a gigantic nuclear furnace, blasting out every type of radiation you can imagine.
"oh, we must make it stable."
IT ISN'T STABLE! But that is the same witch doctor trick they learned 10,000 years ago, 7,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, 3,000 years ago they would tell them, because the priest would mark down the dates on the calender it didn't matter if it was in Greece, or Mesopotamia, or Babylon, or the Aztec imans, the mayan culture before that they would know when the eclipse was coming and they would say, "you gotta serve us, do what we say or the god..." the goblin god, the snake god, the titan, whoever it was it was different for every group "...will eat the sun." and it eats the sun, they all prostrate themselves before them and then worship them for another 30 years till another thing happens and by then after they had seen four or five eclipses and the snake god and the priests had the power to make the snake god spit it out, it was over.
And they are just running a "snake-god" op on you as usual
and of course you will all fall directly for it and take your injections.

The answer to 1984 is 1776

And that's most of the first page.

Well. First of all, there's really only so true that many words without facts can possibly be. But assuming that at a minimum, it's basically true enough to resonate with someone's real experience of the world to "ring true" -- which a lot of it is for me, fwiw -- how are the people who take it seriously being encouraged to respond?

There's nothing on offer besides fear and anger, that I can see. Nothing. Literally. And that's some pretty heavy-duty, alarming and dangerous fear and anger.

So. Most people who choose him will probably have some way of processing that at an acceptably non-destructive cost. But some won't. Because it's way too stressful to feel that much of those kinds of fear and anger on a regular basis for that not to be inevitable.

He's not responsible for the destruction. But he's completely, entirely responsible for choosing to profit off putting people at risk for it. Because, you know. It's not really objectively necessary for him never to say anything that doesn't remind people to feel fear and/or hatred towards one broadly defined, mass of threatening, faceless people or the other, simply for truth-telling purposes.

And that's putting it charitably. Because however unlikely it might seem to me that someone who talks about fear-based mind control as much as he does is unaware that constantly inciting people to feel extreme fear is an obstacle to truth-telling and not an aid to it, I have to admit it's possible. Very, even. It kind of depends on personal/cultural stuff.

I don't want to be unfair. But like I said before: A little trauma goes a long way. I mean...

They want to KILL you!

Do you understand?

...there's no excuse for that. Some people do. Non-rhetorically. And the threat is yuppies, he says? I don't see where an argument that he couldn't have influenced those bombings has a leg to stand on. Although that might not the best way to put it. But even if it did, I'd have the same problem with him. As evidenced by already having had it, on that other thread. It's not really political, strictly speaking. I'm just opposed.

I hope that was semi-clear. I mean, I think it's pretty straightforward. You know me, though.

.______________

ON EDIT: I forgot to say:

you are NOT THEM, Youre With US

^^That us v. them stuff is key, wrt fear-based manipulation potential. Because if staying wasn't safer, people could just leave if they didn't like the fear/anger.

He might not do it much, for all I know. I was a little surprised to see it. But being alert to it in general can't hurt. So there you go.

[Project Willow]

What do you think would have been an acceptable police response?

Overall, I think what appears to have happened in Boston was an acceptable police response; moreover, much of that response may have been exemplary.

I tend to agree. As far as I know innocent people were not spirited off in white vans and tortured. No one was brutalized, as far as I know. I don't understand what people expect the police should have done if not go door to door doing house searches. How else do they expect the police should have searched. Is it that they appear to have been less than polite in the videos?

That's a low standard. I consider having a rifle pointed at my face a form of brutality. I'm betting the authorities will not limit these tests of the fourth amendment to terrorist attacks in future. Does this example from Tennessee on Sunday qualify as a "hot pursuit" or are we already inching down the slippery slope?

BRENTWOOD, Tenn. - Police in Brentwood have charged a man suspected in the shooting death of his wife. 41-year-old Randolph Maidens was arrested early Monday morning and has been charged with criminal homicide.

His wife, Dr. Rachael Maidens, was found dead in the couple's home in Brentwood's Governors Club neighborhood just before 6 p.m. on Sunday. Mr. Maidens was not at the scene when police arrived. An extensive overnight search for him came to and end shortly after 6 a.m. on Monday when Maidens was taken into custody without incident.

"This was a very large area and you are talking about a large perimeter," said Brentwood Police Chief Jeff Hughes."There is a large area and a lot of bodies of water in the area and we were pretty much trying to cover it all."

During the search, police went door-to-door in the neighborhood and would not allow anyone in or out.

"This is very scary. We have a 15 year old daughter who's home alone. We told her to turn off all the lights, to stay out of vision, except for police, if they came to the house in uniform she could answer the door," said resident Cynthia Rosenblum Sunday night.

Rosenblum said she lives next to the crime scene, but did not know the couple well. However, she described a strange run-in with a man she said was Randolph Maidens, when he was found lurking in the woods in a ski-mask, and he claimed to be lost.

Residents were finally allowed to return to their homes around 1:30 a.m. Monday.

Maidens was transported to the Williamson County Jail Monday morning where bond was set at $2.5 million. His initial court appearance was set for May 2.

Rachael Maidens was an orthodontist. Her practice, RM Orthodontics, is located in Maryland Farms. The office was closed on Monday, but some of Dr. Maidens patients came by to leave gifts and condolences.

"I think to say just how sorry I am and I'm going to miss coming to the office and seeing her," said former patient Cindy Bayer. "She always had a smile and was always friendly. She obviously enjoyed what she did, so it's a shame that her life's work is gone."

The couple had a child together. She was found in the home unharmed. Police said she is being cared for by relatives.

[chump]

The "Bad Guys" have been in government for quite some time. One Count Orlok is replaced by another, one "Max Factored Actor" (as Dylan Thomas said) after another. We are in a choose your brand democracy, but there are only two brands and they are both fascist. Mussolini is not as bad as Hitler, but Hitler gets more results!

It is so surreal. Djochar, he is so cute. I feel sorry for him, but I also feel sorry for all those people he blew apart; if, indeed, it was him. If indeed he exists and if indeed Boston is not a hologram and we all died a long time ago and this is our final episode of Lost consciousness trying to make sense of how we perished so suddenly, so needlessly.

Any one of us they finger. Knock knock knock. Out you go. Into the Van. Maybe you get Mirandized, maybe you don't. Maybe no one every hears from you again. Maybe they screw up and hang you by your wrists and ankles from an undisclosed location an beat you so bad that they burst your liver. This happens right before they find out they got the wrong guy. They got your phone number off the ph book of a pizza deliverty guy named Achmed Mahood Mamia Brando, who they had been tracking since he exhibited pre natal fantasies of blowing stuff up; and it turns out he was innocent, too and was sadly lost in the gulag of black sites. Knock knock knock. Bam bam bam. Off you go.

So I hear lots of tough sounding patriots say "I would be willing to die to protect your right to _______." I have yet to hear anyone say "I would be willing to suffer abduction and extraordinary rendition to a foreign dungeon to be tortured undlessly without even access to the Red Cross - if it meant you could be free!" Or maybe those without the stomach for such insanity invoking sessions of agony can opt or plan B. "I am willing to be blown apart instantly, even by mistake, with my children or family, in the name of making this a safer America that is a better place to do business."

What did George Harrison call it? "A tidal wave of bullshit."

Exciting times we live in.

[Hunter]

I dont know Alex Jones personally so I cant say I hate the guy, he isnt really my cup of tea, the whole over the top act is just a little too much for me and my liking but that doesnt mean he is a bad guy and he does bring to the forefront some very important issues.


That said, I am suspicious, by nature, of people like Alex and I do think some of them (again Hello Hal Turner) are controlled opposition, I dont know that he is but it seems to me that if he were really the threat he fancies himself being, he would be neutralized in some manner or another, but perhaps it is a case of "the bigger and louder you get the safer you are," with Alex, maybe they really cant do anything to him now because too many people are watching and it would only energize his rather large and vocal following that much more.

[compared2what?]

More door-to-door search videos from Watertown:

I don't like it, not one bit, exigent circumstances or no.

Not to feel inimical towards it is incompatible with freedom.

That's not a simple, easy thing, even when/if it's not more than a feeling. So I'm sorry if I've been too dismissive.

(^^Not directed at you, Willow. Or you, barracuda. Hi, though!).

[brainpanhandler]

What do you think would have been an acceptable police response?

Overall, I think what appears to have happened in Boston was an acceptable police response; moreover, much of that response may have been exemplary.

I tend to agree. As far as I know innocent people were not spirited off in white vans and tortured. No one was brutalized, as far as I know. I don't understand what people expect the police should have done if not go door to door doing house searches. How else do they expect the police should have searched. Is it that they appear to have been less than polite in the videos?

That's a low standard. I consider having a rifle pointed at my face a form of brutality. I'm betting the authorities will not limit these tests of the fourth amendment to terrorist attacks in future. Does this example from Tennessee on Sunday qualify as a "hot pursuit" or are we already inching down the slippery slope?

BRENTWOOD, Tenn. - Police in Brentwood have charged a man suspected in the shooting death of his wife. 41-year-old Randolph Maidens was arrested early Monday morning and has been charged with criminal homicide.

His wife, Dr. Rachael Maidens, was found dead in the couple's home in Brentwood's Governors Club neighborhood just before 6 p.m. on Sunday. Mr. Maidens was not at the scene when police arrived. An extensive overnight search for him came to and end shortly after 6 a.m. on Monday when Maidens was taken into custody without incident.

"This was a very large area and you are talking about a large perimeter," said Brentwood Police Chief Jeff Hughes."There is a large area and a lot of bodies of water in the area and we were pretty much trying to cover it all."

During the search, police went door-to-door in the neighborhood and would not allow anyone in or out.

"This is very scary. We have a 15 year old daughter who's home alone. We told her to turn off all the lights, to stay out of vision, except for police, if they came to the house in uniform she could answer the door," said resident Cynthia Rosenblum Sunday night.

Rosenblum said she lives next to the crime scene, but did not know the couple well. However, she described a strange run-in with a man she said was Randolph Maidens, when he was found lurking in the woods in a ski-mask, and he claimed to be lost.

Residents were finally allowed to return to their homes around 1:30 a.m. Monday.

Maidens was transported to the Williamson County Jail Monday morning where bond was set at $2.5 million. His initial court appearance was set for May 2.

Rachael Maidens was an orthodontist. Her practice, RM Orthodontics, is located in Maryland Farms. The office was closed on Monday, but some of Dr. Maidens patients came by to leave gifts and condolences.

"I think to say just how sorry I am and I'm going to miss coming to the office and seeing her," said former patient Cindy Bayer. "She always had a smile and was always friendly. She obviously enjoyed what she did, so it's a shame that her life's work is gone."

The couple had a child together. She was found in the home unharmed. Police said she is being cared for by relatives.

The police are human beings too. Good and bad. Corrupt and not corrupt. Well meaning/compassionate and sadistic monsters.

My first response at seeing the coverage of the manhunt and the videos posted in this thread of the house to house search was a visceral fear and fascination. These images and events are unprecedented, almost surreal from this great distance (I went to high school in a suburb of Boston. I attended Umass Amherst). They are evocative. One's imagination instantly goes back to Nazis rounding up enemies of the fatherland and/or leaps forward and imagines the police state to come.

Off topic:

Personally I think it's inevitable.

It's as simple as this: civlization as we know it now is unsustainable, and yet we will largely continue as we are now. This will eventually lead to the collapse of the ecosystem we depend on and the breakdown of civil order on a massive scale. And then we will have the police state and they won't just be looking for bombing suspects, they'll be looking for me and you and anyone who fails to clap long and loud enough for the fascists. It seems like a foregone conclusion to me. I know how horribly fatalistic that must sound, but I honestly believe it. I don't conclude from this that we should all just surrender and do nothing to try to stop the downward spiral, not least of which because I could be wrong, of course, but also because I think post apocalypse there could be some advantages.

Why not start planning for the post apocalypse now?

[compared2what?]

It's as simple as this: civlization as we know it now is unsustainable, and yet we will largely continue as we are now. This will eventually lead to the collapse of the ecosystem we depend on and the breakdown of civil order on a massive scale. And then we will have the police state and they won't just be looking for bombing suspects, they'll be looking for me and you and anyone who fails to clap long and loud enough for the fascists. It seems like a foregone conclusion to me. I know how horribly fatalistic that must sound, but I honestly believe it. I don't conclude from this that we should all just surrender and do nothing to try to stop the downward spiral, not least of which because I could be wrong, of course, but also because I think post apocalypse there could be some advantages.

Why not start planning for the post apocalypse now?

[Burnt Hill]

Can we please use PMs to continue the interpersonal arguments?

You too, BH. I have nothing further to add regarding 4thB.

not really understanding this one as it refers to me, I have no 'interpersonal argument" with anyone. You expressed your disagreement with the mods,which I am fine with, I supported them and explained myself. As discourse to how the mods operate I dont see the problem, it has some bearing on this thread as it involved a prominent poster and his views on this topic. If it matters so much, as it appears to to you, then lets take it to a new thread, why cloak it in pms? FB may deserve that much. I dont see where I made anything personal except as to myself, which I am fine with. So iamwhomiams, i have nothing interpersonal to take to pms, when I do, I do.

[8bitagent]

Guiliani: No way these brothers acted alone.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2321398168001/

If Rudy "911, 911, 911" Guiliani says there's "no way these brothers acted alone," then they probably did.

That is exactly what i was thinking actually.

Many people were calling 9/11 an inside job from day one, however "inside job" = "foreign terrorists working at airport helping the hijackers".
MANY MANY right wingers called 9/11 a "state sponsored" event from day one on tv, and not necessarily Iraq/Afghanistan.


As Ive said, Ive seen no evidence Loughner/Lanza/Holmes/etc were being "handled" by black ops teams. However, perhaps some ops are much blacker than others.
The (lord?) works in mysterious ways!

[justdrew]

FFS I cant tell when half of you are being serious or condescending or sarcastic or just being a smart ass anymore. I wish we could all just get along here for the sake of trying to smoke out the truth here and not take others POVs so personally.

IAN is that an actual picture of Misha or what, I just cant tell anymore which posts are serious and which are some sort of joke that I am not getting. Sorry if I am dunce, I just cant keep up with all of this and try and earn a living at the same time but I am certainly willing to try.

It's a possibility.

every bit as (ok, far more) realistic than "the government did it"

[MacCruiskeen]

Guiliani: No way these brothers acted alone.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2321398168001/

If Rudy "911, 911, 911" Guiliani says there's "no way these brothers acted alone," then they probably did.

You're too generous. If Rudy "911, 911, 911" Guiliani says there's "no way these brothers acted alone," then you can be pretty damn confident that they did not act at all. Why, he's every bit as trustworthy as our old pal Source, who certainly gets around:

Source: Boston bomb suspect says brother was brains behind attack

Young Joker, by contrast, was the brawn, apparently:

Tsarnaev had been shot in the head, neck, legs [plural] and one hand, according to an FBI affidavit supporting the charges. He had lost a lot of blood and may have hearing loss from two flash-bang devices used to draw him out of the boat, the source said...

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/22/us/bo ... index.html

Ouch. Not that those multiple gunshot wounds remotely bothered young Dzhokhar, who can now be added to our ever-lengthening list of Superstudents:



Whaddaguy! Not so much a Joker as an actual invulnerable Terminator.

Would anyone care to actually comment on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's superhuman invulnerability to police gunfire? How does that work, exactly? I mean, apart from in movies.


Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

Also, where's this photo and/or film of the brothers actually planting the bombs (two of them, remember) at the Boston Marathon finishing-line? The police claim there is such a film, so where is it?

Has the presumption of innocence now been formally abolished in the USA? Are neither evidence nor motive any longer required? Just asking. Because this whole thing -- including this thread -- makes a fantastic, literally unbelievable, spectacle. It's just like a movie. (How could it not be?)

[barracuda]

Not to feel inimical towards it is incompatible with freedom.

That's not a simple, easy thing, even when/if it's not more than a feeling. So I'm sorry if I've been too dismissive.

I don't think you've been too dismissive. Three hundred injuries from an event like this is hard for me to overlook as trivial. Entire severed limbs and body tissue chunks flying through the air - it's a shocking thing. If we are to believe the narrative, the suspects were equipped with at least one similar bomb during their carjack episode. No one really wanted another bomb to go off in a crowd.

Did they need to bring in 35,000 LE/National Guard, and lock down Watertown? I don't think so, although "please remain in your houses" is a fairly common directive from LE in the middle of a manhunt for a violent offender. I've heard that phrase before coming from police loudspeakers, and it's never all that reassuring.

I've also run from cops and gotten away. It's remarkably easy to do, for a time, in a city, if you're fairly fit and not particular.

I posted the vids to show that LE seemed to be using a variety of tactics in their search - in the first two videos you can see that they don't actually pull anyone (not even the videographer) from their homes, and seem to be operating in a fairly cursory manner. In other instances, though, guns were pointed at children, people were forced to remain outdoors, and the LE presence assumes all the appearances of a military incursion. But really, what do you expect in a country of endless wars? Barney Fife in camos with fully body armor and an automatic, that's what. If you don't like the militarization of our society, it's not as if you didn't see it coming. This is not new, except perhaps in terms of scale and exposure. The smoke from the fire of war permeates every corner of the warring country. The fairy tale that "We're fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here" is irretrievably shown to be a lie . We are at war, on many continents and in many nations, and those wars are indexed and reflected by our own, in our own towns, in every trip to the gas station and grocery store. Williams-Sonoma has pulled pressure cookers from shelves in Massachusetts. Another small surrender of liberty.

I'm glad to see people upset about the armored vehicles and full metal jackets on Main Street. In my worst hours I wonder just how much civil liberty is truly deserved by a society that permits atrocities on the scale of the last ten years. Then, of course, I come to my senses and understand that those liberties are the birthright of every person. Without exceptionalisms.

(^^Not directed at you, Willow. Or you, barracuda. Hi, though!).

Hey, lady. Nice to see you tilting away, as always.

[barracuda]

Would anyone care to actually comment on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's superhuman invulnerability to police gunfire? How does that work, exactly? I mean, apart from in movies.

Since we don't really know the extent or severity of those wounds, I'd say it's hard to say. I had a close friend who took seven bullets once, and was still standing and fighting, though. So who knows.

[MacCruiskeen]

Would anyone care to actually comment on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's superhuman invulnerability to police gunfire? How does that work, exactly? I mean, apart from in movies.

Since we don't really know the extent or severity of those wounds, I'd say it's hard to say. I had a close friend who took seven bullets once, and was still standing and fighting, though. So who knows.

Well my daddy once took sixteen bullets and still managed to bite a chicken's head off, so I guess I'll just have to take your word for that.