The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

[Nordic]

From Eva Bartlett's FB page:

Since I expect that the hack from Buzzfeed who emailed me will take my replies out of context or simply not include them period, I am posting them here.

Hello. You have a number of facts wrong. I will spell them out.

-Press Conference was only meant to be a report back by myself and the others on the panel. Yes, Ambassador al-Ja'afari was originally going to be present but solely to introduce me. Due to the meeting in the GA that morning, he apologized to me that he could not be present.

-I was not speaking at the UN at the behest of the Syrian government but rather at my own request to present some of my findings, and also via the organizing of the US Hands Off Syria coalition. Your question is clearly meant to imply that I am a mouthpiece for the Syrian government and that is indeed poor journalism on your part.

You are extremely wrong here, and I quote: "You wrote on your blog that your trip to Syria in November was organized by a member of the Syrian parliament.
Was your trip paid for by the Syrian government, or did you pay your own air fare, accommodations, and other expenses? "

No, I wrote on my blog that the November 2-5 trip to Aleppo was organized (for the other foreign journalists of the NY Times, BBC, LA Times and others) by the Aleppo MP. No, my trip was NOT paid for by the Syrian government. I applied for and paid for my visa and my own travel expenses and accommodations. The SOLE exception is that for the November 2-5 trip with the other foreign journalists the bus was provided, thus none of us paid for transportation on that short trip. On prior and subsequent trips, I paid for transportation, accommodation, travel.

Your question: "Do you believe you were able to gain an unvarnished look at the country, or do you believe there were efforts by the Syrian government to present a specific narrative?"

I requested to go to Aleppo and to specific areas of Aleppo. I requested to go to other areas of Syria (Homs many times, Latakia, Jableh, Tartous, Yarmouk, Masyaf, Sweida, Maaloula, Palmyra, these requests were fulfilled. I had genuine one-to-one encounters with Syrians in Aleppo, and everywhere I travelled, on my own and without government representatives interpreting unless and when I asked for their assistance. I speak Arabic and spoke directly with the people I encountered, and at other times had a translator not provided by the government with me. The "narrative" I saw and presented is that of the Syrian people in Aleppo.

See:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/aleppo-how ... an/222594/

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2 ... ctors.html

https://www.sott.net/article/327727-Eva ... terrorists

http://ahtribune.com/in-depth/882-palmyra.html

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2 ... uture.html

Your question: "You made a few claims in your exchange with the other journalist that might strike people as odd. For example, you said nobody in Eastern Aleppo had heard of the White Helmets. Can you elaborate?"

None of the IDPs I met at a shelter in greater Aleppo had heard of the White Helmets, although they had family members who were at the time (early November) trapped in eastern areas by the terrorists and who were complaining to the people I spoke with that terrorists were hoarding food and not allowing them access to medical care. They had not heard of the White Helmets, nor had IDPs I met who had recently escaped from al-Helloq, eastern Aleppo. Nor had any doctors I spoke with in Aleppo. Nor had any citizens I spoke with in Aleppo (who likewise had family members in those eastern areas). More recently, since the December 9 Press Conference, Aleppo has been nearly completely secured. Testimonies from countless civilians who were saved from the terrorists inhabiting those areas show that they also had not heard of the so-called infamous White Helmets.

For more recent on the ground updates on this, I suggest you read the writing of Vanessa Beeley, who just spent three days in liberated eastern areas talking with evacuees.

"During my time in Hanano East #Aleppo I spoke with many civilians who had been liberated from their four year imprisonment by NATO and Gulf state terrorist brigades. I asked them all if they knew of the #WhiteHelmets. All of them looked puzzled and most of them replied that no they did not know them at all.

Some said they knew of the workers who called themselves "civil defence" and worked with the terrorists. I asked if they also helped civilians, one man only said that yes sometimes they did help him and his family.

I interviewed the Syrian Arab Red Crescent workers who were on the scene in Hanano. They had never come across the White Helmets in all the time they had been working in East Aleppo since the area was invaded and occupied in 2012."

https://www.facebook.com/vanessa.beeley ... 1493843868

Your question: "You also said the will of the Syrian people could be gauged by the results of the 2014 elections. It's my understanding that voting only took place in government-controlled areas, and no credible election observers supported its outcome. Do you stand by your statement?"

In fact, I never inserted the word "only". I said this was a great indicator. I also mentioned that Syrian civilians in government secured areas braved torrents of bombs fired by terrorist factions on voting day, and that I had experienced walking with throngs of Syrians in Lebanon walking to the embassy to vote, of their free will. You might be interested to note also that Syrians from around the world flew to Damascus airport solely to vote as embassies in the countries they were residing in had been closed by those governments.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2014/05/syrians- ... anon-west/

http://orientalreview.org/2014/06/03/in ... elections/

http://www.sott.net/article/313862-Syri ... Revolution

http://www.ipsnews.net/2014/07/liberate ... evolution/

To your last question, my comments are mine alone, based on extensive travels throughout Syria, spending months in the country and having countless one-on-one interactions with Syrians. The views I expressed are mine and also reflect the views on these Syrians I met.

https://ingaza.wordpress.com/2015/03/03 ... terrorism/

http://zeroanthropology.net/2014/09/11/ ... civilians/

http://zeroanthropology.net/2014/10/26/ ... trocities/

Regarding propaganda, please see that of the UN, including how it distorts truth and silences the Syrian voices:

http://theduran.com/idlib-school-attack ... -in-syria/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/not-tweetw ... ra/5501694

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/229215-unite ... mbassador/

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/sy ... failure-un

I don't expect that you will appreciate this as the tone of your questions reflects your own alignment, which seems to be with that of the media which is determined to obfuscate the truth on Syria and instead promote war propaganda. Let's say that I will be pleasantly surprised if you prove me wrong.

I would add, since you asked, that you can find my writings here:

https://ingaza.wordpress.com/syria/my-p ... -20142015/

Blog postings from Syria and from Lebanon where I've spent roughly half a year collectively in between visits to Syria or while waiting for visas to be granted:

https://ingaza.wordpress.com/syria/my-p ... -20142015/

And can find many video clips with Syrians here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/InGazaUpdates/videos

Best regards,

Eva Bartlett

*his email in full follows:

From: Ishmael Daro <ishmael.daro@buzzfeed.com>
Sent: December 15, 2016 3:24 PM
To: evabartlett@hotmail.com
Subject: Viral video of your comments at the UN
"Hello Ms. Bartlett,

I'm a reporter with BuzzFeed News, based in Toronto.

I'm writing about the video of your comments at the UN that has gone viral in the last few days. I just wanted to ask you a few questions, for a story on our website.

The Norwegian journalist you addressed told me that reporters were led to believe they would hear comments from the Syrian ambassador Bashar Jaafari. However, he was not present. Were you speaking at the UN at the behest of the Syrian government? How did you come to be at that press conference?

You wrote on your blog that your trip to Syria in November was organized by a member of the Syrian parliament.
Was your trip paid for by the Syrian government, or did you pay your own air fare, accommodations, and other expenses?

Do you believe you were able to gain an unvarnished look at the country, or do you believe there were efforts by the Syrian government to present a specific narrative?

You made a few claims in your exchange with the other journalist that might strike people as odd. For example, you said nobody in Eastern Aleppo had heard of the White Helmets. Can you elaborate?

You also said the will of the Syrian people could be gauged by the results of the 2014 elections. It's my understanding that voting only took place in government-controlled areas, and no credible election observers supported its outcome. Do you stand by your statement?

Last question: Even if this was not your intent, your comments at the press conference appear to track with Russian and Syrian government messaging. Do you have any concern about seemingly aligning yourself with those governments? How do you respond to concerns that your video is serving as propaganda for Russia and Syria?

If there's anything else you'd like to add, please feel free to include it. Thanks."

--

Ishmael N. Daro
| BuzzFeed
| Social News Editor

[Elvis]

The "case" against Eva Bartlett crumbles. She's a true journalist, and it's funny and fascinating to see how a MSM reporter reacts when confronted with a real journalist. Thanks, Nordic.

[Elvis]

Eva Bartlett recommends the writing of Vanessa Beeley, who's got to be the best —i.e. only?—Western source on the ground in Aleppo. If this has already been posted, apologies, though it's worth a rerun. Video at link:

‘Unlike Western mainstream media, I’ve spent the last three days in East Aleppo’
Published time: 15 Dec, 2016 13:48
Edited time: 15 Dec, 2016 13:51

Western media and propaganda have supported the incarceration, torture, abuse and horror that these civilians had had to go through says journalist Vanessa Beeley. Columnist Brent Budowsky and Daniel McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute join the debate.
Trends
Syria unrest

After liberating eastern Aleppo, government troops are making advances against terrorists that still control several districts of the Syrian city.

In response, the militants have again been targeting civilian areas of western Aleppo.
Meanwhile, the mainstream media continue to blame President Assad and Russia for the civilian suffering.

The grim picture of Aleppo's liberation painted in the mainstream media has prompted crowds to protesters on the streets of European cities. People gathered in the German city of Hamburg as well as Paris calling to stop the slaughter of people in Aleppo.

Also, the lights of the Eiffel Tower have been turned off in solidarity with the civilians of Aleppo.

RT spoke to independent researcher and journalist Vanessa Beeley, the executive director of the Ron Paul Institute Daniel McAdams and columnist for 'The Hill' Brent Budowsky and heard some very different opinions on the Syrian conflict.


RT: Why so much hysteria in the media? Why is no one talking about defeating terrorists - who are Al-Nusra, the Al-Qaeda affiliate in Syria?

Brent Budowsky, columnist for the Hill: Nobody wants to kill and defeat the terrorists more than I do and more than the US, but what is happening in Aleppo is a moral crime against humanity. I agree with what Secretary of State John Kerry said that the Russian government should do everything to stop it, to end it, to support a ceasefire, to end the carnage, the killing and the bombing of innocent civilians. The UN is concerned about it. And I agree with their investigation into possible war crimes. I agree with what the pictures tell us. The bombing of civilians and the massacre of the innocents must stop. My strong advice to President Putin would be to follow John Kerry’s advice and end that carnage and killing right now. So should Assad, so should the Syrian army. It is a joke to treat them as liberators; they are mass-murdering civilians…

RT: Vanessa, what is your reaction to this political view of the events? As a journalist, how do you feel about that?

Vanessa Beeley, journalist: I’ve just returned from three days in East Aleppo, and I would like to 100 percent correct the lies that are being disseminated by the media, think tanks, governments across the West. Particularly your guest who has just uttered complete lies. I’ve spent basically three days in all the various liberated areas of East Aleppo… Many of the testimonies that we received from the civilians that this gentleman has just accused Russia and Syria of bombing, actually told us that they had been incarcerated for the last four years by the various US-backed terrorist militant groups such as Al-Nusra Front, Ahrar al-Sham, Harakat Nour al-Din al-Zenki whom we know beheaded the 12-year old Palestinian child. We were told stories about civilians who were trying to leave this imprisonment when the Russian and Syrian governments opened the humanitarian corridors. I interviewed one lady, I have her on film, where she tells me that one woman, who had been kept in a condition of starvation and malnutrition by these militant factions – who were stockpiling any humanitarian aid that came in and either selling it at extortionate prices. When this lady went on her knees to beg for food, she was shot in the mouth by the militant factions that have been imprisoning these civilians for the last four and a half years. Your [American] media and propaganda have supported that incarceration, torture, abuse and absolute horror that these civilians had had to go through.

RT: The spokesperson of the US State Department said he hasn't seen the videos of people celebrating on Aleppo’s streets. He's in a senior position; he must know what he's talking about, doesn't he?

Brent Budowsky: We can witness day by day dead babies by dead babies. You can watch the CNN, the BBC, any other television station. The point is – the killing, the bombings of civilians must stop. The dead children and babies is a moral outrage against humanity.

Vanessa Beeley: Can I ask one question? Where are these sources being able to transmit this information from? Because in East Aleppo there is no 3G, there is no wi-fi, there is no electricity. So I’d like to know how these sources are able to get this information via Skype connection to organizations – I’ll use that term loosely – like CNN, BBC, Channel 4. I would very much like to know how they achieve it and how there’re able to do that in East Aleppo. Unlike the corporate mainstream media, I have been in East Aleppo for the last three days, therefore, I’m giving you eyewitness testimony unlike your mainstream media that has not been there and relies upon spurious activists – like the White Helmets, who are funded by every single nation that has a vested and declared interest in regime change in Syria. That is your reliable source. Or perhaps the ‘Aleppo Media Center’ – French Foreign Office funded…

Daniel McAdams, executive director at Ron Paul Institute: This is a good example of what is wrong with the mainstream media. You have a mainstream media source like this Brent Budowsky who goes on television telling us: “You’ve got to believe the US government.” This is the same media that lie through its teeth about Iraq; that lied through its teeth about Benghazi, about the slaughters that were not happening there. There are no foreign media sources in East Aleppo right now. They are not on the ground. They are all using information that they are getting through rebel sources. That is the truth. So, Budowsky, what you are doing right now is you are putting out fake news. And you know it because there are no sources on the ground. You’re saying, ‘Just believe the US government.’ You’re supposed to be in the media! You’re supposed to be doing independent work…

Go back to 2005 in a document from the US Embassy in Damascus was sent back to Washington outlining exactly how to destabilize and overthrow the Syria government, which is exactly the roadmap they took. Who was really responsible for the carnage in Syria? It is the interventionists in the West and their enablers in the mainstream media that push a regime change policy that destroys countries like Iraq, like Syria, like Libya, like Afghanistan, and so on. They are the real perpetrators of this crime.


https://www.rt.com/op-edge/370401-syria ... sm-russia/

[MacCruiskeen]

The "case" against Eva Bartlett crumbles. She's a true journalist, and it's funny and fascinating to see how a MSM reporter reacts when confronted with a real journalist. Thanks, Nordic.

Exactly. What a calm but devastating (and detailed) response. Bravo, Eva Bartlett. Just like that Norwegian journo at her press conference, the Buzzfeed hack had his arse handed to him on a plate. It will be very interesting to see how he responds at Buzzfeed, if at all.

And bravo, Vanessa Beeley. Compare the honest reporting of these two brave and knowledgeable women with what's served up to the world by Joel Kirby, Samantha Power, the massed mercenaries of the BBC & CNN, and the pseudleft blatherers touted by American Dream.

[seemslikeadream]

well, I'm going to make a prediction on this one:

Assad is going nowhere, he's going to weather the storm.

correct so far sir...

[stefano]

Do all of these baseless opinions of yours justifies the US and NATO and the gulf states sending in armies of brutal murderous mercenaries who chop off heads, engage in cannobalism and cut the heads off of 11 year old boys? And who hold countless thousands of people hostage while not allowing them to leave their houses for over 4 years?

They're not baseless. And no, Assad's crimes don't justify the terrorism and the interference.

[stefano]

I do want to understand Assad better, he seems to be a straight talker, the times I've heard him (mainly the sit-down with Kucinich); would it be convenient to dig up an example of him being psycho? (So few aren't I won't be shocked.)

'Psycho' probably isn't right, and it's really a mistake to personalise the regime too much. Assad's more of a figurehead for a network that has a sectarian base and has made a small number of families very rich. And has left a whole lot of other families, mostly Sunnis, locked out of opportunities or, if there was ever any suspicion of links to the Muslim Brotherhood, with young men in jails and so on. Political prisoners get treated terribly there, more so since the war started. Bashar wasn't meant to take over (which is why he studied ophthalmology) until his elder brother Bassel (who'd got the special forces training and everything) died. He probably isn't a psycho, but the system he is part of is utterly ruthless. That's how the war started - with soldiers opening fire at MB and NATO-orchestrated protests. Then those deaths became a rallying cry for people who had long been very frustrated and unhappy about Baathism, and the warmongers were there with weapons to give them.

On the MB - it's also dishonest to want to portray them as in some way different than human, or complete tools of the West or whatever. A lot of the leaders are co-opted, but their popular support comes from the fact that for decades they gave people things that their corrupt governments didn't, like education and healthcare. And, as I've said, it was mortally dangerous to be a Brother, so you'd expect anyone personally affected by Baathism to tend to want to get involved in the rebellion. Many were victims of the government during an earlier Sunni insurgency, where the biggest conflict was the massacre of Hama in 1982. Assad killed 25,000 people then. And cities take sides in wars in the region, so again it's silly to think all the Assad forces entering Aleppo are going to be kindly disposed to people there (remember they were given several ultimatums to leave and didn't).

[stefano]

Is it the case that somehow, the people that are lying to us constantly are the force of 'good'?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. "Oh, you're critical of Assad! Are you an imperialist Al-Qaeda supporter? Do you want nuclear war with Russia?!" Very frustrating.

[stefano]

Vanessa Beeley: [b]Can I ask one question? Where are these sources being able to transmit this information from? Because in East Aleppo there is no 3G, there is no wi-fi, there is no electricity. So I’d like to know how these sources are able to get this information via Skype connection to organizations – I’ll use that term loosely – like CNN, BBC, Channel 4.

I'd wondered about that, too - how the internet was supposedly still working...

[Sounder]

Elvis » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:56 pm wrote:

I know you're sincere, AD, but ...

Mac wrote...
*cough* Steady on, Elvis. Claims to knowledge are often questionable, and very much so in this case

American Dream, I am very strongly convinced that you are insincere. You are certainly not participating honestly in this discussion. Honest participation would entail honest responses to points actually made and evidence actually presented by other posters. You never respond honestly and in your own voice to any evidence posted here or to any point actually made by anyone. You just ignore it completely. And then you carry on spamming up the thread with foul nonsense copied-and-pasted from Shiraz Fucking Socialist or whatever other sanctimoniously-moralising pseudoleftist rag you select from your capacious newsfeed to inflict on this Discussion Board.

For the millionth time, American Dream: Take part honestly and in your own voice or not at all.

Sounder wrote:

Like I said; dumb as a box of rocks.

Mac wrote...

That's a tempting explanation, Sounder, but I'm not convinced it's the right one. In fact, I strongly suspect that there are reasons other than dumbness for American Dream's (sic) persistent, years-long spam-bombing of this board with pseudoleftist voices that are not his own. And, in particular, for his spam-bombing of a thread (this one) that is now successfully debunking a torrent of imperialist propaganda while Syria resists Uncle Sam.

Yes, your explanation seems more accurate, the spam-bombing is sure to quickly follow any substantive points being made, but because that is a marker for bad faith posting, and has gone on for years, why does anyone at all consider what AD has to say- always by proxy?

The Empire does not take kindly to defeat, including the defeat of its propaganda campaigns. All it has in response is more lies, more rumours, more unsupported assertions, more and more and more spam.

I think the empire are still sore losers at having the Shah kicked out.

The multiplication of lies will only hasten the dismantling of empire. (So lie, lie away fuckers.) I kid, I cry.

[American Dream]

Mac is on my "ignore list", has been for years now, and knows this full well. He may not like this, but it is my own personal limit and that's the way it is.

[MacCruiskeen]

Mac is on my "ignore list", has been for years now, and knows this full well. He may not like this, but it is my own personal limit and that's the way it is.

I know no such thing. Your "ignore list"! What transparently mendacious bullshit. Enough.

You are a liar and a coward, "American Dream". It is not just me you ignore. It is everyone on this board. Even your "response" to Sounder there was just a typically evasive one-liner.

You have abused this place for long enough. There is not the slightest doubt about it: You are a spook.

[MacCruiskeen]

How much longer will the spook "American Dream" be allowed to abuse this Discussion Board?

He won't reply to Sounder, won't reply to Elvis, won't reply to me, won't reply to anyone. He slanders Eva Bartlett and doesn't respond when questions are asked of him by Elvis, or when refutation of that slander is posted by Nordic. He has this entire Discussion Board on his "ignore list". All he ever does is spam this Discussion Board with second-hand crap, and for a very long time he has been posting propaganda for war with Russia.

[Sounder]

Sounder » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:01 pm wrote:

Is it the case that somehow, the people that are lying to us constantly are the force of 'good'?

Stefano wrote...
This is exactly what I'm talking about. "Oh, you're critical of Assad! Are you an imperialist Al-Qaeda supporter? Do you want nuclear war with Russia?!" Very frustrating.

The attempted use of irony fails here because it is simply used to evade the substance of rest of the post.

Assad may be a 'bad' man, but he is a bad man best dealt with by those immersed in the Syrian context, and not by those on the outside informed by imperialist propaganda.

Is it the case that somehow, the people that are lying to us constantly are the force of 'good'?

Back when the Libyan operation was happening, I was so sad when reading the RI thread on the subject. Until Starman Skye stepped in it was constant implied expressions of white man superiority. Of course his points were ignored.

I am so tired of idealists trying to save the world.

The use of fundamentalist idealists to achieve objectives of 'liberal' idealists makes those 'liberals' (read imperialists) look to be dumb as a box of rocks.

Our bad is better than Assad's bad, therefor we are morally obligated to DO SOMETHING.

Stefano, I very much appreciate your informed perspective, with that sentiment being dulled little by the fact that I may disagree with some implications of those words. But when you speak of a small clique enriching themselves, I laugh and think about the pipeline and western determination to get a cut on commerce done anywhere in the world.

My criteria do not involve critiques of the various (target) despots because it is not good to throw stones in glass houses. The scale of suffering created by various geo-political manipulations and implications, with the main exemplar being the scale of arms required and distributed to achieve the manipulations is the criteria I choose to go by.

Logically it never made any sense to go into and destroy countries totally, as the case was in Iraq and Libya, and now Syria, with the explicit goal of killing the ‘leader’. These people think its OK to destroy whole societies in order to target single ‘very evil’ people? You gotta be shitting me, how shallow can people be?

[tapitsbo]

Surely not every critic of Assad is a fanatical terrorist, but the opposition government-in-exile in qatar and then in istanbul certainly both were putting up a PR smokescreen for jihadists who have openly called for genocidal actions that would dwarf the Hama massacre even if its casualties were twice than the number stefano cited. This is true even if more moderate groups have been involved, although they have been quite scanty on the ground throughout the war...

How different is something like the Hama massacre from equivalent Turkish, American, Israeli atrocities, to say nothing of those perpetrated by jihadists around the world? The media isn't shrieking about Netanyahu or Erdogan as war criminals, obviously, but precisely this exposes the precarious and partisan basis of such rhetoric about Assad or Putin. Furthermore, the self-identified "liberal internationalists" like Obama, Trudeau, or Merkel do not speak for humanity, not by a long shot. They are arguably as "sectarian" as anyone else out there - it is their former privileged position that obscured their particular "faith" and ideology.

No country is isolated from international actors and oligarchs' power plays. The Syrian government may have some sectarian bases but de facto they are more pluralist and less sectarian than their opposition, who have also been less forgiving and more "ruthless"...

Why are so many Sunnis fighting for Assad, including Palestinian Sunni militias, for example?

It's telling to me that here in Canada the Syrians I've met were decidedly not fans of the "opposition/rebels" that the Western MSM is still vaguely defending (while rarely featuring any info on who they are, exactly)

Of course the future of players like YPG/SDF and so on will be interesting - these groups aren't vying to control all of the former Syria though, like the government or jihadist groups claim to be doing in their rhetoric.