High Wierdness from Dennis K

[marykmusic]

My original post was not about whether or not Dennis is a Socialist (to me, that was very successful high-jacking of my thread), but to point out that he's talking about manifesting the improvement in our world. Now, this is considered High Wierdness by many, but there's solid physics behind the concept. Metaphysics, too.

Whatever works... this is the way each one of us can take responsibility for improving first our own lives, then our neighbors', then our communities' proper functioning... do you see what I see here? --MaryK

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

....do you see what I see here? --MaryK

Here I see smears against Congressman Kucinich and misinformation. I'm no longer surprised.

>I see a thread title on RI's front page that links 2008 anti-war presidential candidate Kucinich with "High Weirdness". That is discrediting him no matter what 'nice' things are said in the thread.

>I also see a false claim by Masonic Plot that he is associated with 'Democratic Socialists of America.' Perhaps that is a mistake. MP might address this.

>I also see Dragon's view that 'free education and healthcare is socialism.' Dragon has already shown a loose-to-slippery grasp of facts and this has a pattern to it, in my eyes.

No. I don't like what I see here and in other threads of yours, MaryK, despite your using Zappa as a sig quote.

You claim to be married to Dragon whose posts I really don't like because of they are filled with bogus science, barely-veiled urgings to violence, and anti-Jewish historical revisionism masquerading as calls to rigorous examination.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=10053

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=10065

[MASONIC PLOT]

I didnt intend to hijack the thread, I said I thought Dennis was a great guy but that my research has led me to see that he is a proponent of socialism and I am not certain that is the answer to the nations problems. I have no problem with those who are socialist and advocate socialism at all, and I certainly have no real problem with Dennis Kucinich. I am just one who favors less government as opposed to more.

As for Hugh, my reading and research for the last several years has shown several times that Dennis Kucinich was at one time a Co-Chair of the Democratic Socialists of America. I am not saying that to smear him, the DSA does a lot of good things, I am not trying to imply that his association with this organization is a bad thing, but it is something for ME to consider since I prefer small govt to big govt. I have references in several books I have read, one by John Coleman, that indicates that he was in fact a co chair of this organization, I cannot say for certain this is a fact but as I mentioned, I have seen several references to this througout the years in my reading, again none of this was intended as a smear to Dennis who I think is a decent guy with good intentions, even if we disagree on basic ideology. I dont hijack threads, you should know better than that. I always try to be somewhat civil and open minded and allow people their opinions.

I do agree with Maryk that we can all manifest our collective destiny but it seems we have not evolved to that point yet, perhaps someone like Dennis could help such a cause. Im open to that.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

As for Hugh, my reading and research for the last several years has shown several times that Dennis Kucinich was at one time a Co-Chair of the Democratic Socialists of America. I am not saying that to smear him, the DSA does a lot of good things, I am not trying to imply that his association with this organization is a bad thing, but it is something for ME to consider since I prefer small govt to big govt. I have references in several books I have read, one by John Coleman, that indicates that he was in fact a co chair of this organization, I cannot say for certain this is a fact but as I mentioned, I have seen several references to this througout the years in my reading, again none of this was intended as a smear to Dennis who I think is a decent guy with good intentions, even if we disagree on basic ideology. I dont hijack threads, you should know better than that. I always try to be somewhat civil and open minded and allow people their opinions.

I appreciate that you offered your info on Kucinich. I just don't see it validated, MP.
In fact, I think you've been taken for a ride by disinfo from the GOP and its allies.

Kucinich has a track record of standing by the groups he promotes and he has no information on either his Congressional website or his presidential campaign website about the DSA.

http://kucinich.house.gov/

http://kucinich.us/

So I see portrayals of him as being a 'socialist' as semantical verging on hostile to him in a country where 'socialist' is synonymous with 'damn commie.'

And that this is coming from Dragon and MaryKMusic associating DK with "High Weirdness" only reinforces my judgement based on precedent.

There IS NO LIST OF alleged ' CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF DSA!'
The 'DSA' endorses some but they don't endorse the DSA in return.

Now why do you suppose that is?

This looks very much like a cyber-bullshit campaign against progressive members of Congress and the judiciary.

Ah, October 2002 (which precedes the election month of November, 2002) we see this right-wing webpage telling us just who these alleged socialists are lurking in our hallowed halls but OOPS - they aren't listed by the DSA. HOW ABOUT THAT?

Must just be a tiny oversight or glitch by the DSA webpage team, right? Uh...right.

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/gov_philosophy/dsa_members.htm

Q: Who are these members of Congress?

A: See the table below

*Updated info: October 2002*

I could no longer find a list of current membership for
the Progressive Caucus on the DSA website. However,
Representative Bernie Sanders (D-Vt.), Chairman of the caucus,
maintains such a list on his U.S. government provided website:

http://bernie.house.gov/pc/members.asp

Nope. Nothing there. Or anywhere. Spin again.

Smell mendacity yet, MP?

The tactic is to paint all progressives with the 'Socialist' tag using Sanders as the brush.

Bernie Sanders really was an elected Socialist AND member of the Progressive Caucus.
And this link is being used to portray all the members of the Progressive Caucus as a bunch of Mao-spouting Commie pinkos.

Here's a reich-wing site that purports to warn us of all the leftie networks ruining America and this page tells you all you need to know about this Rovian smear job-

http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6497

Exposing America's Enemies: Communist Progressive Democrats (Part II)
by Linda Kimball
May 24, 2006

Exposing America's Enemies: The 'Social Justice Seeking' Communist Left
by Linda Kimball
May 11, 2006

Attack of the Pelosicrats
By Lowell Ponte
November 14, 2002

Congress' Red Army Caucus
By Joseph Farah
July 28, 1998

Nancy Pelosi: Caviar Commie
By Joseph Farah
November 6, 2006
.....
Until 1999 the Progressive Caucus worked in open partnership with Democratic Socialists of America. After the press reported on this link, the connections suddenly vanished from both organizations' websites.

Oh, really? Gee, those "Caviar Commies" must be oh so devious but didn't learn how to hide this until after seven years of Gingrichism against Clintonians. Uh, right.

How odd that Dragon and MaryKMusic are pointing in the same direction as Rovians only using "High Weirdness" instead of "commie."

Now that the fascist GOP has been recognized for what they are it is time to go on the offensive against progressives like Kucinich to try and hang on to the Fox TV base and even pry away the uncertain 'centrists' who might fall for the justifications offered of 'I'm no Socialist, I'm a moderate.'

Same old false definitions and keyword scare-mongering to keep people away from voting for peace and justice.

[MASONIC PLOT]

I absolutely see your point. I certainly do not associate 'socialist' with 'damn commie' and the information I posted was in no way intended to be read that way, BUT you are right, MOST Americans see it exactly that way and accordingly the GOP smear spooks will use that to their advantage, no doubt.

[Jeff]

My original post was not about whether or not Dennis is a Socialist (to me, that was very successful high-jacking of my thread), but to point out that he's talking about manifesting the improvement in our world. Now, this is considered High Wierdness by many, but there's solid physics behind the concept. Metaphysics, too.

Agree. I'm sorry to see a decent idea for a positive thread hijacked with such negativity.

I very much like what Kucinich says:

"Each one of us holds transformational capabilities to engage the world constructively through the images of the future we hold in our mind. Our thoughts have power. The power of intent together with action transforms our lives and our world."

[MASONIC PLOT]

My apologies to Maryk. I guess I am at fault for the thread hijacking here. I will be sure and tip toe around a little more carefully around here from now on, it seems everyone is on fucking edge lately lol.


But sincerely, I do apologize and I agree, your post was meant to convey something much more positive than what it has been taken for. My effort to share something I had discovered in some reading I had done backfired and turned into something much more than I intended it to become. Mea Culpa.

[noen]

Although I disagree with socialism in theory, it sure seems to click in practice.

The "New Deal" of the early twentieth century was a form of socialism and the right has been virulently fighting against it for decades. That is what is going on in the US. The right wants to repeal the new deal and all related legislation. That means welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, labor laws, public racially integrated schools, everything is going away. Including the middle class.

Democratic Socialism usually means a blend or a balance between the two extremes of capitalism and communism. For instance, people today want universal healthcare, they won't get it, but that is a form of socialism.

I agree that socialism is a trigger word. It isn't possible to have a reasoned debate in the US about anything the ruling class doesn't want. US policy is not discussed or even mentioned here and in our elections these issues are never brought up or if they are then they are suppressed by the media.

[DBtv]

The irony lost in all of this is the current socialist welfare state that engorges globalist corporations with our tax money.

The war is an obvious redistribution of wealth scheme in which the national treasury is emptied into the coffers of the corporate globalist war machine and their elitist stockholders. (Yes, some "middle class" investors own stock, but their holdings are miniscule comparative to those of the elite.)

The worship of capitalism is ironic as well. Why do you think it is called CAPITALism? The system is set up to reward old money and to make it more difficult for those not born into riches to gain them, populist mythology notwithstanding.

We are seeing the results of "free market" capitalism, that is totally unregulated corporatism. Jobs exported out of the country by "American" corporations that enjoy the protection of the American military machine (essentially the proletariat of America protecting the corporate globalists that are stealing from us and destroying our economy.)

A little democratic socialism where business is regulated to operate ethically and sustainably and where the tax money is used for the good of THE PEOPLE sounds like a pretty good system to me.

[Telexx]

A little democratic socialism where business is regulated to operate ethically and sustainably and where the tax money is used for the good of THE PEOPLE sounds like a pretty good system to me.

Fucking-A!

"Free Market" is a great oxymoron. The result is the big boys dominate the little boys. Quality loses out to mediocrity. Capitalists claim "Choice!" as their mantra but time & time again it becomes clear that monopoly and domination is the real agenda.

Personally, I would love to see a system where companies operating in any particular 'market' (i.e. country) had an obligation to pump a (high) percentage of their profits from that market (i.e. country) back into the community via independently organised schemes- health, education, alleviation of poverty...

You could call it Responsibility-Based Market Capitalism although the evil old cunts (in a British English sense) who run the western would rather be buried clutching their money than to see it wasted on Useless Eaters...

Thanks,

Telexx

[MASONIC PLOT]

I dont know about the rest of you but in my opinion the less government the better. Let people take care of themselves. Less government and more personal freedom is the way to go. Anytime you give the government the responsibility to take care of you they will not only fuck it up but they will exploit it to their own advantage.

[Vigilant Guardian]

Dennis had a good message but a bit short on specifics - it's another inspirational meggage like from my High School Guidance Counselor's office - "if you believe you can achieve" - we've know that forever - question is HOW? I guess I'm glad he's leaving the aswer up to us - I don't trust high-level people, even one as apparently clean as Dennis, to hand us our platforms.

MP - Don't worry. You posted a point in good intention that seems to have been wrong and others took it into negative land - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if K IS attached to this group after all and the documentation is not available - has anyone got all the full lists and verified he's not there? Sorry if so and I missed it... I'd definitely not be surprised to find out Soros funds the Socialists. It seems like something he'd do. He doesn't give a damn what people think, he does whatever's in his plans. And he does have the money...
It doesn't seem a major issue to me tho and I'm not keen to argue it.

[Telexx]

...in my opinion the less government the better. Let people take care of themselves. Less government and more personal freedom is the way to go.

I'd have to agree with this, but I would like to see the freedom of exploitative corporations railed in.

If people were smart they'd do it through consumer power and ethical shopping but the reality is most people seem hypnotised into being pretty fucking stupid*

Thanks,

Telexx

* Sorry if that doesn't sound v.humanitarian. I shop ethically and avoid the supermarkets etc and although I feel that I'm pissing into the wind on my own at least I'm no hypocrite. Thanks.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Telexx

Im with you. You wont catch me spending a dime at walmart, ever.

[Vigilant Guardian]

Telexx and MP count me in too. Follow the money right back to yourself and your on tiny role in it - That's the route, because e can't change the world but we can change ousrelves and each other - That's why MTV tells us to rock the vote 'cause it's just bread and circuses that doesn't rock the boat. Some votes do matter of course (local initiatives, etc) and there is some reality to changes coming from ploitics via voting wisely or dumbly - but the real arena where the real change comes is in how we live our lives - unfortunately it's bigger than not goinf to Wal-Mart - I don't know what the answer is but I feel the disease is deep and will require something past surgery almost to the point of reincarnation and total re-invention. I dunno.