Pentagon 'UFO hacker' faces 60 years if extradited

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Re: Pentagon 'UFO hacker' faces 60 years if extradited

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:19 am

Sepka wrote:
Eldritch wrote:And I wonder what consequences you yourself might expect, Sepka, if your karmic crimes against compassion were to be weighed, and then you penalized for them. Given the cruelty you frequently wish upon individuals—entire nations, even!—I can imagine such consequences being considerable.

Hopefully there is forgiveness out there for you, and for all of us.


I'll reserve my compassion for decent people. Soldiers, policemen, farmers, factory workers, shopkeepers - all of the millions of people who work, and obey the law, and contribute to society instead of setting themselves against it. They never really seem to excite the shallow romanticism of the coffee-house left in the way that convicted murderers, anarchists, terrorists, and any other variety of gutter-sweeping so reliably can, yet they're what the world depends on. It's not people like Gary McKinnon who make the internet run, or who make food appear in your neighborhood market, or who enable you to enjoy your own property without someone stronger taking it from you. People like Gary McKinnon make these things less certain, not safer. I bear the man and his works no good will, and I'll sleep the sleep of the just.


What happens when farmers are bullied by corporations like Monsantos?
Or when soldiers believing they are doing the right thing, are
sent to die, kill and be maimed for outright lies?
what happens when factory workers are swept into near slave wages because of globalization? Or shopkeepers who have to close shop because of the Walmartification of America?

Where's the people standing up for them? Shit, it takes a group of "conspiracy theorists" to raise awareness for the thousands of dying firemen, police, and 1st responders fighting pulminary disorders from the ground zero dust.

Also, since when are "coffee house" liberals supporting terrorists, murderers, ect?

What, Mumia?
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Postby OpLan » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:16 am

If he was in a hackers sandbox being fed disinfo,then surely the charges relating to damaged hardware are fraudulent?It can't have been a very successful campaign when he never managed to download and circulate any of this disinfo data.And who needs a vast chinese Botnet to crack the pentagon firewall when you can just walk though an unprotected PC?
Correct me if I'm wrong,but the damage they are talking about is simply the cost of taking out the terminals he walked through and replacing them.At $5000 per terminal.
Apparently the most sophisticated war machine this planet has ever known is not capable of routinely implementing passwords,nevermind analysing hardware for malicious programming.
So not only has Gary exposed the embarrasing lack of computer security at the Pentagon,he's also highlighted how much you taxpayers are ripped off..$5000 for ONE computer terminal?My gaming machine was state of the art a couple of years ago,and it cost me less than $700 to put together.I can't believe the pentagon uses special gold plated quad core motherboards with bitchin pci-e graph cards,top shelf audio cards,genuine copys of XP and diamond studded keyboards.
I still don't understand why they are going after him this way.Why didn't they just scare the living shit out of him..pick him up off the street in a van with dark windows..give him to an SAS unit for a couple of hours,show him pictures of his dear old ma going about her everyday business,tell him how terrible it would be if anything would happen to her.
Suicide him,cancer him,deliberately vandalise their pcs and blame him,theres a myriad of ways to deal with him.He's just a dick with a remote access prog.Just banning him from ever using a pc online would be enough to seriously damage his working life in this day & age.
No.They choose to demand his extradition without evidence,and draw even more attention to how shit they are at running a war machine.
If this guy was a Yank and it was us brits demanding his extradition without evidence,you'd all be up in arms about it.
And Sepka man..this guy isn't dropping illegal DU shells on innocent people in an illegal war.Nor is he robbing your banking system blind,or pushing up your fuel and food prices.He hasn't been interfering in other countries democratic process for the past 60 years.He didn't intentionally vandalise any system he was in.He could have really screwed the pentagon,set up a worm to reformat every PC in NASA,but he just poked about looking for anti grav and ufo data,after having walked through an unlocked and unguarded door.Your bullshit government won't offer any kind of evidence relating to his case before he is extradited to face a bullshit kangaroo court.60 years solitary in a concrete cubicle for exposing the piss poor quality of your defence system?You think thats fine?You need to rethink your priorities.Its not justice,its punitive vengeance.He's made them a laughing stock.One thing these monsters don't like is being laughed at.
Ha fucking ha.An unemployed berk of a UFOnut walked into your fearsum enjin unchallenged over and over again.What a bunch of useless morons.60 years?He should be given a medal.Worlds worst hacker pisses on the worlds best war machine.
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Re: Pentagon 'UFO hacker' faces 60 years if extradited

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:07 pm

Sepka wrote:
Jeff wrote:McKinnon unearthed unprotected computer systems operated by the US army, the navy, the Pentagon and Nasa. On every system he hacked, he left messages.


First, he's not a hacker. He's some idiot script-kiddy running PC-Anywhere, connecting to unsecured systems. What he "broke into" were probably honeypots anyway.

None of that excuses the fact that he deliberately vandalized systems. "On every system he hacked, he left messages". Despite what his supporters claim, that's not just innocently poking around to see what's there. That's writing or editing files on someone else's system, where you're not supposed to be to begin with.

I hope they extradite him, and I hope he spends every second of sixty years in prison. I devoutly wish to see an example made of him.


I have to say, Sepka, I find your wishy-washy, mealy-mouthed do-gooder attitude quite shocking.

Why on Earth should a decent hardworking person like myself be forced to hand-over MY hard earned money in order to keep your white liberal guilt assuaged by keeping this guy in prison? America doesn't want your namby-pamby 'progressive' notions of 'example' - it needs teaching what is RIGHT and what is WRONG.

He should have the skin stripped from his bones inch by inch, then slowly boiled in a transparent vessel that will be webcam-ed live on Pay Per View. And that's if he's LUCKY!

Like THIS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
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Re: Pentagon 'UFO hacker' faces 60 years if extradited

Postby Eldritch » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:15 pm

Sepka wrote:I'll reserve my compassion for decent people. Soldiers, policemen, farmers, factory workers, shopkeepers - all of the millions of people who work, and obey the law, and contribute to society instead of setting themselves against it. They never really seem to excite the shallow romanticism of the coffee-house left in the way that convicted murderers, anarchists, terrorists, and any other variety of gutter-sweeping so reliably can, yet they're what the world depends on. It's not people like Gary McKinnon who make the internet run, or who make food appear in your neighborhood market, or who enable you to enjoy your own property without someone stronger taking it from you. People like Gary McKinnon make these things less certain, not safer. I bear the man and his works no good will, and I'll sleep the sleep of the just.


Just or not, you seem to be asleep even now.
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Postby Seamus OBlimey » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:28 pm

Hey Op! good to see you again, now where's my tenner? And Searcher, you had me going there.
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Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:38 pm

Seamus OBlimey wrote:Hey Op! good to see you again, now where's my tenner? And Searcher, you had me going there.


I was going to put <Yorkshire> tags around it :)
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Postby Byrne » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:08 pm

From the post of the Observer article (1st post in this thread)

The Briton facing 60 years in US prison after hacking into Pentagon

On the eve of a Lords ruling over US demands for his extradition, a British computer hacker claims that American prosecutors threatened to haul him before a military tribunal

* Jamie Doward, home affairs editor
* The Observer,
* Sunday July 27 2008

<snip>

In a further twist, it has emerged that a crucial file containing details of the early meetings with the US prosecutors, at which the offers were apparently made, has gone missing from the office of McKinnon's solicitor. A laptop holding details of the same meetings was stolen from the car of one of his barristers.

The revelations have prompted febrile speculation among McKinnon's supporters, who fear that events have taken a sinister turn. McKinnon believes his phone has been bugged and claims to have been followed. As a result of his exploits, no IT company will now offer McKinnon a job. 'I think it's bloody ridiculous,' he said. 'They should employ me to bust paedophile rings or credit card frauds rather than stick me in jail for the rest of my life.'

<snip>

McKinnon unearthed unprotected computer systems operated by the US army, the navy, the Pentagon and Nasa. On every system he hacked, he left messages. 'It was frightening because they had little or no security,' he said. 'I was always leaving messages on the desktop saying, "your security is really crap".'

One message has come back to haunt him. 'I said US foreign policy was akin to government-sponsored terrorism and I believed 9/11 was an inside job. It was a political diatribe,' he admitted.

<snip>

McKinnon's interest in aliens was started by an internet-based group of UFO enthusiasts called The Disclosure Project. The group had collected more than 200 testimonies - some from people who have served in the US military - that 'confirm' that extra-terrestrials exist. Not only that but, according to McKinnon, some of the testimonies offered proof that 'certain parts of Western intelligence had acquired and reverse-engineered their technology, mainly weaponry and free energy'.

Intrigued, McKinnon used the testimonies to help him search top-secret US databases for information about free energy. 'I felt if it existed it should be publicly available,' he said. He says he came across many other hackers in the supposedly secure systems, many with Chinese and Russian internet addresses. Since his exploits were exposed, consecutive government reports have confirmed that the US military's computer systems remain poorly protected.

McKinnon was caught before he could find any confidential information on 'free energy', but he saw enough to believe the US authorities are suppressing what they know about aliens. He says he came across a document written by a Nasa official who claimed the agency has to airbrush UFOs out of satellite photos because 'there are so many of them'.

With only a 56k modem, he found that downloading the huge volume of documents was too time-consuming. But McKinnon claims that he managed to capture almost two-thirds of an image of what he believes was either a UFO or a top-secret US craft operating in space.

The picture was confiscated, along with all the other material McKinnon downloaded. The material included an Excel spreadsheet entitled 'non-terrestrial officers' and a list of names. 'It was a really weird phrase,' McKinnon said. 'Maybe it was the secret development of a space force. Space is the next frontier and it's already being weaponised.'

His hacking career came to an abrupt end one morning in March 2002. The National High Tech Crime Unit searched his flat and arrested McKinnon and his then girlfriend. 'They said "you'll probably get six months' community service",' McKinnon claimed.

In the end the Crown Prosecution Service decided not to prosecute, but two years later, after crime unit officials visited Washington, apparently taking McKinnon's hard drive, the US government began extradition proceedings. 'Now I'm facing 60 years in prison,' McKinnon said. 'I believe my case is being treated so seriously because they're scared of what I've seen. I'm living in a surreal, nutter's film.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/2...alcrime.hacking


Is the UFO/Disclosure Project/free energy angle a cover story? Did McKinnon see some 911 'inside job' evidence? [His words]

There is a Free Gary Blog/campaign to free Gary, or at least to put him under a UK trial. One of the blog contributors is 'Mark', who is quoted in this article
"If there is an actual trial in the USA, rather than a coerced or otherwise 'plea bargain', there are a large number of senior US military officers and civilian IT managers and auditors who are going to have to explain the incompetence or possible corruption or perhaps treason, which went on for years and months under their command, both before and after September 11," Mark claims.


There are some UK case notes of Gary McKinnon's appeal of February 2007 :
#8 Pursuant to the request for mutual legal assistance, Mr McKinnon was interviewed under caution in London on 19 March 2002 and again on 8 August 2002. During those interviews he admitted responsibility for the intrusion into US Government computers and networks and the installation of "remotely anywhere" on them. This included the Army's Military District of Washington network and the Naval Weapons Station Earle network. He stated that he had copied files from the American computers onto his home computers and had deleted log files on the American computers so as to conceal his activities. He stated that his targets were high level US Army, Navy and Airforce computers and that his ultimate goal was to gain access to the US military classified information network. He admitted leaving a note on one Army computer that read:

"US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year … I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels … "
SOLO was his nickname....

A November 2002 US Department of Justice indictment has the following:
4. From in or about September 2001, through on or about March 19, 2002, within the Eastern District of Virginia, and elsewhere, the defendant GARY MCKINNON did knowingly cause the transmission of codes, information and commands, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally caused damage without authorization to protected computers, belonging to the United States Army.


Note from the Observer article how the details of the early meetings with the US prosecutors have, ahem, disappeared...
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Postby OpLan » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:26 am

Hey Op! good to see you again, now where's my tenner?


oh heck.. did I lose some kind of bet in a gin frenzy?

According to channel 4 news, Gary just lost his appeal.He's now appealing to the european court of human rights.

What do you guys think of those documents being stolen?Whats the significance?Is plea bargaining illegal?

*edit*
From the BBC

A Briton accused of hacking into top secret military computers has lost a Law Lords appeal against being extradited to stand trial in the US.

Glasgow-born Gary McKinnon could face life in jail if convicted of accessing 97 US military and Nasa computers.

He has admitted breaking into the computers from his London home but said he was seeking information on UFOs.

The 42-year-old's lawyers said they would apply to the European Court of Human Rights to prevent his removal.

Mr McKinnon first lost his case at the High Court in 2006 before taking it to the highest court in the UK, the House of Lords. American officials involved in this case have stated that they want to see him 'fry'

Gary McKinnon's lawyers

He was arrested in 2002 but never charged in the UK.

The US government claims he committed a malicious crime - the biggest military computer hack ever.

The authorities have warned that without his co-operation and a guilty plea the case could be treated as terrorism and he could face a long jail sentence.

A statement by solicitors for McKinnon, who was not at the Lords to hear the judgement, said: "Gary McKinnon is neither a terrorist nor a terrorist sympathiser.

"His case could have been properly dealt with by our own prosecuting authorities. We believe that the British government declined to prosecute him to enable the US government to make an example of him.

"American officials involved in this case have stated that they want to see him 'fry'.

"The consequences he faces if extradited are both disproportionate and intolerable."


'Computer nerd'

Their client is accused of hacking into the computers with the intention of intimidating the US government.

It alleges that between February 2001 and March 2002, he hacked into dozens of US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Department of Defense computers, as well as 16 Nasa computers.

Prosecutors say he altered and deleted files at a naval air station not long after the 11 September attacks in 2001, rendering critical systems inoperable.

Mr McKinnon, who is unemployed, has admitted that he accessed computers in the US without authority.

But he has said he is merely a computer nerd, whose motives were harmless and innocent. He denies any attempts at sabotage.

He said he wanted to find evidence of UFOs he thought was being held by the US authorities, and to expose what he believed was a cover-up.

Repatriated

The Law Lords were told by Mr McKinnon's lawyers that extraditing him would be an abuse of proceedings.

US authorities had threatened him with a long jail sentence if he did not plead guilty, they said.

If the case was treated as terrorism it could result in a sentence of up to 60 years in a maximum security prison, should he be found guilty on all six indictments.

With co-operation, he would receive a lesser sentence of 37 to 46 months and be repatriated to the UK, where he could be released on parole and charges of "significantly damaging national security" would be dropped.

But Clare Montgomery QC, representing the home secretary, argued no threats were made, and the extradition should go ahead.


Right I see now..documents stolen so our government could wash their hands of him.

Slimey spineless tossers.
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Postby orz » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:50 pm

I'll reserve my compassion for decent people

Shut up.
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Postby Eldritch » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:50 pm

I'm sorry to hear this, but not at all surprised.

Gary McKinnon trespassed into one of the biggest criminal operations in human history: the "secrecy machine" of the United States of America.

It is not the "Gary McKinnons" of the world that threaten freedom in the United States, it is official secrecy itself.

In fact, official secrecy is dismantling freedom in America pretty steadily now.
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Postby OpLan » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:37 pm

The register has a much better report than the BBC here

Lord Brown ruled that the appeal court's “cultural reservations” about plea bargaining and a "distaste" at the US approach towards providing or withdrawing support for repatriation were neither here nor there.

"These comments seem to me somewhat fastidious. Our law is replete with statements of the highest authority counseling not merely a broad and liberal construction of extradition laws... but also the need in the conduct of extradition proceedings to accommodate legal and cultural differences between the legal systems of the many foreign friendly states with whom the UK has entered into reciprocal extradition arrangements."

The US Congress has not ratified the extradition treaty. This means that the UK is not allowed to extradite suspects from the US without putting all its evidence before a US court, a point worth bearing in mind when consider Lord Brown's fulsome support of current UK to US extradition arrangements
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:44 pm

Hmmm, I wonder why the 9/11 part isn't being emphasized in UFO and hacker circles online?

One message has come back to haunt him. 'I said US foreign policy was akin to government-sponsored terrorism and I believed 9/11 was an inside job. It was a political diatribe,' he admitted.


As if to say, I'm a proud hacker who breaks into the most powerful nation's top secret systems to look for evidence of aliens...but questioning 9/11, I really went TOO far there!

That said, after listening to interviews with Mike Rupert, Indira Singh, and Richard Andrew Grove...I can't help but wonder if perhaps there is an artificial intelligence backbone to the 9/11 attacks.
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Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:33 pm

OpLan wrote:If he was in a hackers sandbox being fed disinfo,then surely the charges relating to damaged hardware are fraudulent?It can't have been a very successful campaign when he never managed to download and circulate any of this disinfo data.


That's a good point. A very good point. His case, though mainstream, has also not recieved quite the levels of coverage you would expect if they were setting him up to spread lies on their behalf... Mmmm...

He explains why the charges relating to hardware damage are basically fraudulent, or at least spurious, in this Youtube vid from a while back. It sounds a likely explanation to me, or at least an easy claim to disprove if it was false, and he seems too smart to make a mistake like that.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNsah-0vpY
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Postby Byrne » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:18 am

From the case notes from McKinnon's review in the Royal Courts of Justice on 13th & 14th February 2007 (copy available here) :
#8 ...
He stated that his targets were high level US Army, Navy and Airforce computers and that his ultimate goal was to gain access to the US military classified information network. He admitted leaving a note on one Army computer that read:

"US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year … I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels … "


The above is wholly unreported, apart from the '[911] inside job' line in the Observer article. The case notes do not mention anything about McKinnon searching for UFO/free energy related material...nor is there mention of any 'Disclosure Project'. It appears to me that he was searching for info from 'high level US Army, Navy and Airforce computers' to gain access to the 'US military classified information network' immediately after September 11th 2001...

The July 30th 2008 House of Lords appeal case notes are here.

[UFO enthusiast] McKinnon will now be taking his case to the higher European Court.


8bitagent wrote:...I can't help but wonder if perhaps there is an artificial intelligence backbone to the 9/11 attacks
Ho Ho....they'd like you to think that
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Re: Pentagon 'UFO hacker' faces 60 years if extradited

Postby compared2what? » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:30 am

Sepka wrote:
Eldritch wrote:And I wonder what consequences you yourself might expect, Sepka, if your karmic crimes against compassion were to be weighed, and then you penalized for them. Given the cruelty you frequently wish upon individuals—entire nations, even!—I can imagine such consequences being considerable.

Hopefully there is forgiveness out there for you, and for all of us.


I'll reserve my compassion for decent people. Soldiers, policemen, farmers, factory workers, shopkeepers - all of the millions of people who work, and obey the law, and contribute to society instead of setting themselves against it. They never really seem to excite the shallow romanticism of the coffee-house left in the way that convicted murderers, anarchists, terrorists, and any other variety of gutter-sweeping so reliably can, yet they're what the world depends on. It's not people like Gary McKinnon who make the internet run, or who make food appear in your neighborhood market, or who enable you to enjoy your own property without someone stronger taking it from you. People like Gary McKinnon make these things less certain, not safer. I bear the man and his works no good will, and I'll sleep the sleep of the just.


Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Although I've just learned from Wiki that what I was taught was the primary meaning of that phrase has evidently been reduced by the passage of time to "sometimes-reinterpreted-as" status. But whatever. I know what I mean.

"Honi soit qui mal y pense" sometimes rendered as "Honi soit quy mal y pense", "Hony soyt qe mal y pense", "Hony soyt ke mal y pense", "Honni soit qui mal y pense", "Hony soyt qui mal pence" and various other phoneticizations, is the motto of the English chivalric Order of the Garter. It is also written at the end of the manuscript Sir Gawain and the Green Knight but it appears to have been a later addition.[1] Its literal translation from Old French is "Shame be to him who thinks evil of it"[2] (although it is sometimes re-interpreted as "Evil be to him who evil thinks"[3]).
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