New clues identify zodiac killer?

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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:34 am

I'm fairly confident they've known since the murders were taking place who the killer really was. I could elaborate on that but my reasons are anecdotal and I'm unable to name the person I spoke with about it, who would probably deny the conversation ever took place.
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Postby sunny » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:44 am

et in Arcadia ego wrote:I'm fairly confident they've known since the murders were taking place who the killer really was. I could elaborate on that but my reasons are anecdotal and I'm unable to name the person I spoke with about it, who would probably deny the conversation ever took place.


Bah! quit doing that! Give us the dish in general terms.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:13 am

I don't mean to be opaque, but there's literally no way to confirm what was told to me in the first place. I've shared this with Jeff some time back I'm pretty sure. Anyways, I was stuck in a very long traffic school class(12 hours). The guy running it had been a homicide lieutenant for at least 30 years and had also worked with the FBI in Quantico. I ended up discussing some of the more infamous cases with him between our breaks and dinner/lunch. As far as the Zodiac went, he told me that they knew the identity of the person but only had circumstantial evidence. The police grew beyond frustration and took the suspect out to a remote area, worked him over real bad, told him he would be executed if he acted again, and cut him loose.

This is exactly what the guy told me, but you can verify my honesty as poorly as I could verify his. No question the guy was who he said he was; I had his Miami Police business card for years and talked to him once or twice afterwards.

Like I said, impossible to prove or disprove, but I still believe the guy.
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Postby IanEye » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:31 am

et in Arcadia ego wrote: The guy running it had been a homicide lieutenant for at least 30 years and had also worked with the FBI in Quantico.



So, what did this guy think of Graysmith's book?


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Postby sunny » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:35 am

Very interesting et, and I second IanEye's question.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:44 am

IanEye wrote:
et in Arcadia ego wrote: The guy running it had been a homicide lieutenant for at least 30 years and had also worked with the FBI in Quantico.



So, what did this guy think of Graysmith's book?


Considering 'Zodiac' was published about 5 years after my conversations took place, probably not very much. I've read several of Graysmith's books myself. He gunned for a suspect that was repeatedly cleared IIRC. Graysmith may have been an authority on the case, but he's as far from being infallible as anyone else would have been.

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And of course, like most books published, there's a paycheck involved. Its not like anyone's going to come out and put what I was told into writing.

:twisted:
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Postby 8bitagent » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:35 am

geogeo wrote:for my money, Zodiac was a psy-op, another research project on us.


Possible. I have a gut feeling this is the case with the DC beltway sniper, Manson, Son of Sam, some of the waves of office/school shooting, Sirhan Sirhan, Hinkley, Oswald...hell even OJ could have been a giant bloody psyops.
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Postby monster » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:22 am

New development, I just saw a local news story about a guy who forensically examined a zodiac letter and found Arthur Leigh Allen's name written in the bottom-right corner.

As soon as the story appears on the website I'll link to it.
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Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:50 am

et in Arcadia ego wrote:I'm fairly confident they've known since the murders were taking place who the killer really was. I could elaborate on that but my reasons are anecdotal and I'm unable to name the person I spoke with about it, who would probably deny the conversation ever took place.



Don't go all McCann Case on us! :D :oops:

Monster said: New development, I just saw a local news story about a guy who forensically examined a zodiac letter and found Arthur Leigh Allen's name written in the bottom-right corner.

As soon as the story appears on the website I'll link to it.


Zodiac, the mystery killer, who's codes and symbols have mystified police, sleuths, amateurs, occultists, no-doubt intelligence types too with an interest for all these years - he signed his name in the bottom-right corner?!

That would be hilarious, though not for the families. Was it written in lemon juice in tribute to Casanova's spying days, or ... I can't think of anything else.

This is why I like the theory that Jack the Ripper got jumped and murdered by robbers on the way home from one of his outrages. Streets of London weren't too safe then, round Whitechapel way - even killers get killed.

It's like The NightStalker (wooo!) getting recognised from a newspaper pic and getting beat shitless in the street by a mob before the police came and actually had to rescue him.

Life is messy. These self-appointed social Ubermensch, with their systems and techniques and meticulously kept tools and methods of predation - it makes me laugh when they kick themselves in the balls.
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Postby monster » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:33 pm

Link

(I can't link to the video individually, it's available in the video list on the front page.)
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Postby MinM » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:40 pm

Woman Claims Father Was Infamous Zodiac Killer
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SAN FRANCISCO (CBS 5 / AP / BCN) ―San Francisco police were looking into a woman's claim Wednesday that her late father was the infamous Zodiac killer who terrorized the Bay Area in the 1960s and 1970s.

Homicide investigators were checking information provided by 47-year-old Deborah Perez, who said that as a young girl that she helped her father write and mail some of the letters that earned him the sensational nickname, SFPD Sgt. Lyn Tomioka said.

Perez of Corona, in Orange County, told reporters that she was a little girl when her father killed at least two of the known victims nearly 40 years ago.

Perez said that she was seven years old and was with her father, Guy Ward Hendrickson, when he killed Darlene Ferrin at a park in Vallejo and cab driver Paul Stine in San Francisco in 1969.
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Perez said she has given police what she believes were the eyeglasses Stine wore and letters she wrote on her father's behalf about the crimes.

She said her father took the glasses off of Stine's face and she kept them all these years and only recently realized they belonged to a murder victim and not her father.

Perez said she saw a composite sketch of the Zodiac killer in August 2007 and recognized the man as her father, who died in 1983. She said she had never heard of the Zodiac killer prior to seeing the composite sketch.

The Zodiac killer is believed to have murdered at least five people and possibly as many as 36. He sent letters to local newspapers including The San Francisco Chronicle and The San Francisco Examiner that were splashed across the front pages, taunting reporters, police and the public with codes and clues to find his identity.

Nevertheless, his true identity has never been confirmed by police.

Kevin McLean, also in attendance at the Perez news conference, said he worked with attorney Melvin Belli who the Zodiac killer contacted pleading for help. McLean, acting as Perez's spokesperson, said handwriting tests show Perez did write some of the letters, and they hope DNA testing can be done on the glasses believed to belong to Stine.

Sgt. Tomioka said while detectives continued to follow leads and treat all claims equally, she emphasized that there was only one known murder that took place in San Francisco linked to the Zodiac.

McLean said Perez decided to reveal her father's identity in response to a Sacramento man who had claimed a relative of his was the Zodiac killer.

(© CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. The Associated Press and Bay City News contributed to this report.)
http://cbs5.com/crime/zodiac.killer.claim.2.997735.html

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2009/04/zodiac.html

The Zodiac killer has -- allegedly -- been named. The name is not Arthur Leigh Allen. I'm glad.

Gotta admit, I was pissed off when Deep Throat turned out to be Mark Felt. Felt was everyone's first suspect, which means that he was boring. By the same token, Allen-diddit Zodiac theories are about as exciting as off-white wall paint.

We're told that the Zodiac victims were targeted, which means that we have a conspiracy theory! At least, we have something beyond the usual dull serial killer stuff. I've always felt that victim Darlene Ferrin (the "Laura Palmer" of this tale) would provide the key to unraveling this mystery. My own favored theory attracted some attention back in 2005.

This NYT story claims that the killer was one Guy Ward Hendrickson, who was an early adopter of take-your-daughter-to-work-day. He is long dead, but the daughter claims to have victim Paul Stine's horn rim eyeglasses. (They don't match.) Alas, hers is a case of recovered memory. I'm reminded of that clown who "remembered" taking part in the fabled Philadelphia Experiment after he saw the movie. As for Zodiac: I still suspect Elron...
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2009/04/zodiac.html
Last edited by MinM on Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby monster » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:48 am

CBS 13 zodiac stories aggregated here:

http://cbs13.com/zodiackiller
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Postby monster » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:58 pm

"I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline."
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Postby compared2what? » Fri May 01, 2009 2:19 am

MinM wrote:Gotta admit, I was pissed off when Deep Throat turned out to be Mark Felt. Felt was everyone's first suspect, which means that he was boring.


Off-topic, but briefly, as balm for that wound:

I'm not so sure it did turn out to be Mark Felt. His mind wasn't all there by the time he came forward. In that big Vanity Fair splash, brokered through the attorney hired by his daughter Joan. Who said openly at the time that she hoped to make some money out if it. And who, as a special unreliable-source bonus, had been an almost lifelong devotee of super-crackpot cult-leader, Adi Da, aka Da Free John, Bubba Free John, Da Love-Ananda, and Da Avabhasa, at various points in his career. Aboutt whom there are also some open questions. (Had a little trouble with the law, and eventually decamped to Fiji, where he died last year.)

There's also Bob Woodward's word to fall back on, of course. But that's not exactly what I'd call rock-solid documentation, I mean, come on.

Story with all the pertinent details here.
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Postby monster » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:46 pm

Jun 4, 2009 11:21 pm US/Pacific

S.F. Police Department Holds Up Zodiac Case

(video at link)

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) ― CBS13 has uncovered a major roadblock in the FBI's investigation into the legendary Zodiac case. It's a lack of cooperation, not from a person, but from a police department.

The FBI began collecting DNA evidence last year, and now CBS13 knows why there are no results. The police agency that has most of the original evidence isn't sharing. There may also be another roadblock. The FBI has in their possession a copy of a report alleging someone made changes to what are supposed to be authentic Zodiac letters.

The changes are subtle.

The Zodiac had seven victims in Northern California. In numerous letters, the psychotic killer revealed details of the attacks, taunted police and threatened to carry out more murders.

Dennis Kaufman claims his efforts to prove his late step father, Jack Tarrance, is the Zodiac uncovered changes to what are supposed to be copies of authentic Zodiac writings.

"They are different significantly," says Kaufman.

The theory is now capturing the interest of the FBI.

CBS13 has learned agents are looking at a report complied by Nanette Barto.

Barto is a forensic document examiner. She believes she identified dozens of similarities in the writings of Jack Tarrance and the Zodiac, and discovered the changes.

Barto believes an entire Zodiac letter was painstakingly traced.

"At the bottom of each of these letters, where you see these heavy little dots, indicators of somebody writing slow and coming to a stop, almost as if they didn't want to overshoot it or add anything extra to it," explains Barto.

The tracing, Barto believes, is an effort to make the ink throughout the letter consistent, trying to hide a single alteration.

"I believe the 'a' in watch was altered, this previously had a bell top 'a'," says Barto.

The lines blend together, but when compared to an older copy, the bell top or hood over the 'a' appears to have been removed.

Barto claims to have uncovered several cases of altered a's.

Changing a single letter may not appear significant, but in the world of handwriting analysis it can be crucial.

"One missing similarity can outweigh all similarities found," according to Barto. Meaning, Jack's Tarrance's a's were so distinctive, most containing that extra line above that never finding one could create doubt.

"Does it look like someone intentionally altered the letters," asked CBS13 reporter Kris Pickel.

"Absolutely," says Barto.

Dennis claims the changes began to appear after he showed his stepfathers handwriting to the San Francisco police department in 2001, and posted samples on the internet.

Who made the changes is unknown, but where they showed up is clear.

"We know in Graysmith's books they've been altered as well as Tom Voigt's website," claims Kaufman.

An author and a webmaster, Tom Voigt runs Zodiackiller.com. The site says it's committed to archiving all case related material.

The changes are also found in print.

Robert Graysmith wrote two books, 'Zodiac' and 'Zodiac Unmasked.' The books were the basis for the 2007 movie "Zodiac."

Both books contain the same Zodiac letter, but are clearly not the same. Numerous markings were removed.

The text could have been cleaned up to make the letter easier to read, but why change the 'a'? Was it intentional or perhaps improvements in the quality of the copies?

CBS13 made calls and emails to inquire which is the true text to Voigt, but did not get a response. CBS13 was unable to contact Greysmith.

Handwriting is one piece of a much large puzzle the FBI is assembling to determine if Jack Tarrance and the Zodiac are one in the same.

Last August, the agency began running DNA tests on multiple items turned over by Dennis Kaufman, including a hood similar to one worn by the Zodiac.

If handwriting plays an important role, why wouldn't the FBI go straight to the originals?

CBS13 has uncovered what has been slowing down the FBI investigation: The San Francisco Police Department.

The FBI has been asking since the year 2000, nine years, to view the police department's evidence, so far they've been shut out.

Only one Zodiac murder was committed in San Francisco, but the department has the majority of the Zodiac letters and the only partial DNA profile of the killer.

The San Francisco Police Department denied our multiple phone and email requests for an interview, specifically asking if they will allow the FBI to examine their evidence.

And although the department has shown the evidence to reporters in the past, our requests to see what evidence still exists were shot down.
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