So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby thatsmystory » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:08 am

8bitagent wrote:My biggest question is: Why are the CIA, Blackwater, FBI, etc obsessed with killing al Qaeda guys? It's just hard for me to buy the Infowars meme of "al CIAda"...could it be, both the CIA and terror groups are manipulated into fighting eachother, yet both are under the control of the same interests?

Is it true? For example look at the recent Khost suicide bomber attack. We are told a key reason the CIA let their guard down was because Balawi may have been able to help them locate Zawahiri. Why on earth should we believe this? The media refused to link the two al Qaeda experts with the BIZARRE pre-9/11 conduct of Alec Station. If they were obsessed with al Qaeda then why did they act so strangely before 9/11? It is a crucial question that the media will not ask. Crucial because it goes to the very makeup of al Qaeda.

I think looking at Iraq is a good way to get past all the ingrained war on terror propaganda. Was the goal in Iraq to defeat al Qaeda in Iraq? No. There was a corporate agenda which was disguised with war on terror talking points. So is Afghanistan much different? The drone attacks are making things worse. The corruption of the Karzai government is no secret.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:09 am

thatsmystory wrote: Did torture prove he was obsessed with going after al Qaeda? No. The public information about torture strongly suggests it was intended for other purposes than attaining reliable information. If Cheney cared so much about al Qaeda then why did he support the diversion into Iraq?

IMO having read a few books on Cheney (Gellman, Nichols, Dubose) he is all about promoting deep state/Shock Doctrine interests. He is all about manipulating the public to advance crony capitalism.


I agree...but as of 2010, do we really have clear evidence of Cheney, Rumsfeld or Bush official complicity?
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby psynapz » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:13 am

8bitagent wrote:I agree...but as of 2010, do we really have clear evidence of Cheney, Rumsfeld or Bush official complicity?

The obvious answer to which makes me more suicidal than Avatar.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby thatsmystory » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:21 am

8bitagent wrote:
thatsmystory wrote: Did torture prove he was obsessed with going after al Qaeda? No. The public information about torture strongly suggests it was intended for other purposes than attaining reliable information. If Cheney cared so much about al Qaeda then why did he support the diversion into Iraq?

IMO having read a few books on Cheney (Gellman, Nichols, Dubose) he is all about promoting deep state/Shock Doctrine interests. He is all about manipulating the public to advance crony capitalism.


I agree...but as of 2010, do we really have clear evidence of Cheney, Rumsfeld or Bush official complicity?


We have a good case for criminal negligence against Bush and Cheney. Another key factor in the failure of the 9/11 truth movement is secrecy. National security classification procedures are abused to conceal corruption. We have Yoo doing a media tour to promote his book while the report on OLC conduct is still classified! That is outrageous and yet basically par for the course in relation to the war on terror.

IMO one reason for the confusion is the contradictory MO. If the goal was to pin 9/11 on al Qaeda (defined as an independent terrorist organization funded by Bin Laden) then why does so much circumstantial evidence point to complicity of people like Cheney? It's a very confusing aspect. One explanation is that the goal was to intimidate and demoralize people who refused to buy the government narrative.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby thatsmystory » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:23 am

8bitagent wrote:My biggest question is: Why are the CIA, Blackwater, FBI, etc obsessed with killing al Qaeda guys? It's just hard for me to buy the Infowars meme of "al CIAda"...could it be, both the CIA and terror groups are manipulated into fighting eachother, yet both are under the control of the same interests?


The 60 Minutes piece with Henry Crumpton comes to mind. I don't get it. It doesn't mesh with the public information (i.e. obstructed al Qaeda investigations, withholding of intelligence) and guys like Crumpton know a lot more than the public.

There is a disturbing disconnect. It's hard to know what is true with all the secrecy and propaganda.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby Anita » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:36 am

thatsmystory wrote:We have a good case for criminal negligence against Bush and Cheney.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby Nordic » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:18 am

Well, 8bit, to just go to your original question here, I'll put this to you:

The day when you can imagine Wolf Blitzer saying out loud, on CNN, anything about 9/11 being anything other than the official story, is the day when things might change.

In short, he's never going to say anything of the sort. None of the corporate media ever will.

The entire corporate owned media colluded with the neo-cons to reinforce the official story. From Paul Greengrass's "Flight 93" or whatever it was called, to even Oliver Stone, yes THAT Oliver Stone, who made a movie commemorating and etching in stone the official story, to the admitted propaganda of the show "24" to the obvious propaganda from Disney "The Path to 9/11" to President Obama repeating the same old worn-out psyops bullshit ....

Talking to people about 9/11 is like talking to them about ghosts. I never knew how many people had had (for lack of a better term) ghostly encounters with the supernatural until I had had them myself, and made a film about it, and then people started coming up and talking to me, and I was just shocked how many people had had similar experiences, I mean it was really striking. 9/11 is like that. People aren't stupid, an awful lot of people have figured out they're being lied to and that the official story is completely bogus, but they aren't going to talk about it for fear of it getting to their employers or whatever, or just that same thing that makes people not talk about supernatural encounters UNLESS they know they're talking to someone who won't think they're crazy.

But there's also this thing: Most people are completely unaware of the Deep State, and have absolutely no awareness of parapolitics. Very few people have any idea of any of this. They think it's what they see on TV and what they were taught in 8th grade social studies classes. So they simply don't have the framework, mentally, on which to hang any alternate theories of 9/11.

Also, 8bit, you are completely discounting the deeply impactful Psy Ops nature of the attacks themselves. Almost everybody, even myself, was hammered by that event, just traumatized into accepting the official story. And I'm talking TRAUMATIZED.

For a lot of people to accept what we consider the truth about 9/11 is emotionally akin to asking them to accept that a loved relative who they watched die, that they buried, and who they mourned, ISN'T ACTUALLY DEAD. That's why people get so fucking angry when you present them with this stuff. They are emotionally quite unwilling to consider that their emotions were manipulated, that they mourned something that was a lie (I mean, they mourned actual dead people, but hopefully you know what i'm saying -- I'm extremely tired as I write this). They are emotionally invested in what they were told was the truth then and they do NOT want to deal with the ramifications of their trauma being a trick. They turn the anger of that onto the messenger and shut down.

That's what we're up against. You're asking an awful lot of your average person if you expect them to follow us over the rubicon.

This is one of those things that only a few people are going to venture to delve into. It's just how it is.

I always compare it to Santa Claus. Remember when you realized Santa Claus wasn't real? And you still knew a ton of kids who hadn't figured it out yet? It's like that. Only we're all adults now, and Santa Claus is a mass murderer.

And just one more thing -- I like you, but I have to say your thread title and your attitude seems needlessly provocative here, you want to point fingers and lay blame? Point fingers and lay blame at the people who did it, not the people who haven't figured it out yet. You're blaming the victim, which just isn't a very cool thing to do. It also seems you're just looking for an excuse to complain about your "smarmy" leftists and whatnot.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby Hammer of Los » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:31 am

Poste in haste, repent at leisure.

Calm down Hammer.

Goddamn 911. How they had the nerve to do it, I'll never know.

Its obvious who did it. LIHOP/MIHOP, "inside job," this, that and the piggin' other. You people. I give up.

They only did it because they knew they had access to critical levers with which to control their global mass consenus making machine (stole that phrase from one of you good folk, if I have time I'll find out who it was and make an edit to credit you). And their work was damn sloppy. There's a hundred smoking guns. A smoking arsenal, if you like.

I'll tell you a story. One week before 911 I noticed a veritable slew of programmes on the global english speaking corporate media mass consensus machine on the dangers of Afghanistan and in particular one Osama Bin Laden. Now, I had closely followed the Yugoslav conflict, and I had some idea of how the West plays the media in its own interests. I had already been for some years a student of such matters. I said to my wife "Whats this? I bet they are planning an invasion of Afghanistan next." It was I think two days later that a friend at work turned to me and said take a look at this, pointing to a live news feed initiated shortly after the first plane hit the WTC. Barely a few seconds later I saw the plane hit the second tower live. And I said, "Bye Bye Afghanistan." It sure looked like an obvious staged causus belli within seconds.

So what did I do? I went to look for the sort of evidence that you would expect to find if it was a deep state event. And you know what? Of course you do. I found it in spades. Like we all did.

Why was air defence stood down? What was Cheney and Rumsfeld's role in that? Why was the world lied to about NORAD's response at the 911 Commission Hearings? And let's not even start on the totally bizarre but oh so hollywood apocalyptic building collapses.

I think its good of 8bit to spend all his time pointing to and oh-so-heartily mocking the controlled and pre-prepared circus that they put up to manage, marginalise and discredit discussion of the facts. It shows us how concerned they are about the wider dissemination of this knowledge. Do you know what? I think once you've done the leg work and found the mountain of evidence for yourself, you aren'nt ever going to be convinced you are totally wrong. Therefore the number of people who realise that deep state actors within the government were responsible for 911 can only grow over time. Don't ask me what the implications of this are. I'm just a guy with too much time to spend on a computer. Although judging from post count, clearly nowhere near as much time as 8bit.

At this point its all so bloody obvious.

Does that make me a political extremist?

I'm not you know. I'm very much a moderate.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby Hammer of Los » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:33 am

You know, at this point, I think we are all just expected to pretend it isnt so.

Just ignore the elephant in the room, you know?

It's probably for the best.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:46 am

Well, my initial theory (formulated a few days after 9/11) goes like this and it has never failed me. . .

Somebody put money up to get something done. It got done. I doesn't matter who, but somebody put the money up for a reason.

Secondly to my theory, which I am probably repeating myself, is the fact that 24 hours BEFORE nothing was known of the hijackers. Yet, 24 hours after we have all of their names and photos. IMPOSSIBLE. Not even a reported margin of error either. The government could have easily sent out these mens photos the day before, to be on the "look out" for them. But intelligence is so awesome, we get it 24 hours later. But that is the deal -- government awesomeness 24 hours after the deed was done. But it's still awesome and "all over it". We didn't do jack shit to stop it, we were confused, but the dossiers had been there all along -- for media and public consumption. In any argument bring up the 48 hour thing. I have baffled and brought military people to my side with just that phenomenon alone.

We see a variant of this being repeated about Yemen now.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby Hammer of Los » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:55 am

Oh my word, I've forgotten to answer the question in the original post.

Do we mean whose fault it is there have not been genuine investigations or trials? The media are responsible, of course. The fourth estate, who are supposed to investigate and tell the truth and protect us from abuses of power, but instead are cowed into repeating the same talking points, regardless of whether they make any sense. By whom I mean senior professional journalists in the english speaking media. I suppose there are too many mockingbirds in that tree.

I'm still interested in that position, by the way. Sitting on a computer all day, and, what was it, committing acts of self-abuse? Sounds a lot better than some of the jobs I've had.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:01 am

Neocons? Israel? Saudi Arabia? Al Qaeda?

I'll give you the deep state right here...

Image
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:09 am

Image

Image

Same font and everything. . .
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby compared2what? » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:09 am

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
____________

Myself not excluded.
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Re: So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

Postby Hammer of Los » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:11 am

8bit wrote:If I was behind 9/11, I wouldn't want the neocons "in" on anything. I'd want them to be jizzing their pants when this early Christmas golden goose egg gift of 3000 dead people hit their laps 8 and a half years ago. The perfect football to run with.


8bit, that's your funniest one yet. And lets face it, youre a funny guy.

We have all read the PNAC document, and does anyone here remember Wolfowitz's speech at West Point for the graduates, a few months before 911 (I'm sure you do)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcxI5wpDueE

It's not obvious though, oh no. It could have been anyone behind 911. It was probably Satan or the Illuminati or Cthulu or Aleister bleedin' Crowley behind it all. Oh yes.

I need a lie down.
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