'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Sat May 01, 2010 4:06 am

This again, is neither here nor there. But I speculated on just this situation as it happened. An attack on America (false flag or no) could be accomplished in the ruining of the Gulf of Mexico. Sure, makes no sense to us proles. Think of it for a moment as you would the destruction of "REAL ESTATE" in order to free other properties from dilution of capital. The disaster could be contained within the gulf. But it only affects us, Mexico and the rest of latin America.

Look for a Venezuela twist to this soon, I predict.

Does anybody know a good site with information as to the prevailing currents in the Gulf of Mexico?
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby telephoneman » Sat May 01, 2010 9:52 am

This whole thing makes me sad for this planet once again. Its hard to see how anyone benefits from this tragedy.
And now I lurk
User avatar
telephoneman
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:55 pm
Location: Great Northern Plains
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 23 » Sat May 01, 2010 9:57 am

DrVolin wrote:I'm willing to entertain anything, but who would benefit over this?


At first blush, my guess is anyone who is a proponent of nationalizing the oil industry.

Monumental catastrophes are great backdrops for Government takeovers.
"Once you label me, you negate me." — Soren Kierkegaard
User avatar
23
 
Posts: 1548
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:57 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby SanDiegoBuffGuy » Sat May 01, 2010 12:04 pm

Nathan,
My favorite poem. Love the Ozymandias reference.
When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you. ---tao te ching
User avatar
SanDiegoBuffGuy
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Sunny San Diego, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Jeff » Sat May 01, 2010 12:11 pm

Even without the worst-case scenario:

Experts: Oil May Be Leaking at Rate of 25,000 Barrels a Day in Gulf

WASHINGTON—The Gulf of Mexico oil spill could be leaking at a rate of 25,000 barrels a day, five times the government's current estimate, industry experts say.


Wall Street Journal
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat May 01, 2010 1:34 pm

Expert: Surface area of Gulf oil spill has tripled

Full story w/ graphic:
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=927059&BCCode=BNNATION

"On Thursday, the size of the slick was about 1,150 square miles, but by Friday's end it was in the range of 3,850 square miles, said Hans Graber, executive director of the university's Center for Southeastern Tropical Advanced Remote Sensing. That suggests the oil has started spilling from the well more quickly, Graber said."

"Ian R. MacDonald, an oceanography professor at Florida State University, said his examination of Coast Guard charts and satellite images indicated that 8 million to 9 million gallons had already spilled by April 28.

"I hope I'm wrong. I hope there's less oil out there than that. But that's what I get when I apply the numbers," he said."
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby DrVolin » Sat May 01, 2010 2:22 pm

Knowledge of engineering, knowledge of the oil industry, maximum economic damage. Wonder what that reminds me of.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
DrVolin
 
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Sat May 01, 2010 3:43 pm

UF expert: Spill may spread to east coast
Currents may take the oil around Florida and spare the area's Gulf Coast.

A University of Florida professor and oceanographic expert says he believes the east coast of Florida might see the worst of the impact of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.


At the same time, state health officials say the chemical-like smell reported to be wafting occasionally across parts of the state, including Alachua County, has not been definitively linked to the oil spill but that they continue to monitor the reports.

Y. Peter Sheng, coastal and oceanographic engineer at UF, said the six-day ocean current models released by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reveal that the western coast of Florida, from the Big Bend to Cedar Key, could be spared.

The oil slick that's growing south of the Louisiana coast could get caught in what's called the "Loop Current," which flows through the Florida Straits and becomes the Gulf Stream.

The Gulf Stream runs up the eastern coast of Florida. Sheng said he believes it is entirely possible, even probable, that this will happen, thus impacting the beaches from Miami to Jacksonville. The Loop Current is about 35 miles south of the slick, which currently is 125 miles wide and 40 miles long.

"I would say the east coast of Florida has the higher probability (of being impacted by the oil spill)," said Sheng, adding his opinion is based on NOAA's ocean current forecast and wind direction.

Sheng said until the slick gets to shallow water, wind will not greatly impact the oil slick's movement.

If the oil slick doesn't get into the Loop Current, which would rapidly send the oil around the tip of Florida in a week, the wind direction would have to change from west to east in order to push the slick toward the western Florida peninsula.

If the spill encroaches on the shores east of Pensacola, Sheng said his biggest concerns are for wildlife and the oyster concentration in Apalachicola Bay. He said that since there is not a firm population count on most species, such as shrimp and types of fish, it will be ultimately hard to truly gauge the full impact on wildlife long after the spill is contained and cleaned up.

Sheng compared his prediction of the East Coast seeing more problems from the spill to how red tide, which used to be a problem mostly for the west coast of Florida, also entered the Loop Current and has more recently impacted the state's east coast, as well.

Lauren McKeague, with the Florida Division of Emergency Management, said state officials are treating the encroaching spill as they would a hurricane and will continue monitoring its growth over the weekend.

Karen Bjorndal, director of the Archie Carr Center of Sea Turtle Research at the University of Florida, said she is extremely worried about the impact the oil spill will have on the sea turtle population, from the foraging areas to beaches where they nest.

The center is especially concerned about the most endangered of the sea turtles, the Kemp's Ridley, as well as other breeds, such as Loggerhead and green sea turtles.

Bjorndal said a floating oil slick can be problematic for these turtles, who surface to breathe. If they surface in the oil slick, they will become coated with oil and tar. That could affect their movement. The turtles could die if they swallow the substance. Thick tar could keep them from opening their mouths to eat.

And these slicks could impact the nesting beaches. If oil and tar coat the eggs, it could impact development. And since hatchlings don't know better, they have been known to eat almost any object that might be floating, from plastic to other materials, and will nibble on a ball of tar.

Bjorndal said an active Sea Turtle Stranding and Salvage Network has volunteers throughout all of the Gulf Coast states and will be vital in finding affected sea turtles as they come ashore, whether dead or alive.

"We expect numerous sea turtles to wash ashore [during the emergency]," she said.

When it comes to the ecology, some experts say time could heal all wounds. John Jaeger, an associate professor of geological sciences at UF, said time can be a solution when it comes to clearing oil spills.

"Oil degrades as soon as it reaches an oxygenated environment, so the more water that oil goes through, the more likely it is to be converted into its different phases," Jaeger said.

Eventually, as the oil breaks down - as it decays - in the oxygen on the surface of the Gulf, some of it will evaporate and some will be broken down by microbes, a process that could take years.

Jaeger also said one problem officials are having in predicting where and how fast the spill will spread is determining the speed of the currents because NOAA doesn't have many buoys in the Gulf. He said that might be something officials take a look at after this disaster: How they can better monitor the spread of spills by evaluating water speed.

"I think you're going to see a serious evaluation of ... the ability to predict the fate of any spills that might occur in the Gulf of Mexico," he said.

Meanwhile, with officials predicting possible landfall of oil on beaches in northwestern Florida by Monday, NOAA has contacted UF Sea Grant agents in Panama City to determine how they can assist with the impending disaster.

Steve Theberge, one of the agents contacted, said NOAA hasn't given them marching orders yet but is determining who can help and what their capabilities are, looking for everything from boat operators to those who can clean animals covered in oil.

Theberge said he's not sure how far he might have to travel to help out or what responders will need him for, but if the oil washes ashore, it's all hands on deck.

"If this hits, everything else will go on hold, at least temporarily," he said. "This will be the imminent crisis that needs to be dealt with."

And their involvement could last quite a while, he said.

Agents could be involved with researching the ecological and monetary impact for years to come, as well as figuring out when seafood will be safe to eat again and how to help the seafood industry get back on its feet, he said.

"Depending on how bad this is, it may change our lives and careers for a while," he said.

Staff writer Karen Voyles and correspondent Thomas Stewart contributed to this report.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/2010 ... ?p=1&tc=pg
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Pele'sDaughter
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:45 am
Location: Texas
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby thurnundtaxis » Sat May 01, 2010 4:23 pm

Ruppert is hitting the panic button:



GULF OIL LEAK CATASTROPHIC -- Environmental Catastrophe -- Bigger then Katrina

]April 30, 2010, 1330 PDT -- I watched the press conference live. The question came from a Dow Jones reporter. Present on the stage (among others) were Slazar (Interior), Napolitano (DHS), The Chiarman of BP, Gov. Jindal and a Coast Guard Admiral. The Dow Jones reporter confronted the attendees with two scientific studies saying that the leak rate from the sunken oil rig in the gulf was actually 25,000 barrels per day or five times more than BP had been stating as of this morning. Intial reports kept it a a couple hundred barrels per day but the number of barrels -- and the size of the slick -- continue to grow. No one on the dais denied or even modestly refuted the number. They had been totally busted. The Coast Guard Admiral, protecting her service, stepped up and said, "We have been operating since Day One as though this were a worst-case scenario." The BP Chairman took the mic and also did not deny it. He mumbled something about "we're responding as the numbers get bigger."

Terrorism or an act of war has not been ruled out. DHS and Interior have assumed command of the investigation. According to the BP Chairman no one has a clue what caused the explosion.

Then it got really scary. Someone said clearly that the whole world was watching because of what this meant for already-funded offshore exploration under development. The safety measures designed to protect against a blowout have failed completely. How many more billions of research and millions in cost per fix are going to be needed? How many projects delayed or halted?

Worse: The oil slick is now the size of Delaware. It will be Ohio-sized within days. Florida has declared a state of emergency. All commercial fishing in the Gulf is threatened. All widlife is threatened. And when and if the slick gets to NOLA it will have a disatarous impact on energy production and the brave, battered, courageous people who live there. Coastal refineries may have to close... What might happen if the oil ignited? Oil should be at $100 before the end of next week. I suspect between $150 and $200 (maybe higher) this summer.

Worse: Napolitano and Salazar are already talking about huge claim funds. Massive class-actions against BP are starting. Insurance claims may well dwarf Katrina. The economy of the entire Gulf Coast is in jeopardy. From what I heard there is no real plan to stop the leak and no estimation as to when that will happen. (I might have missed that.) What happens when the slick hits Cuba? The rest of the Caribbean?

The current fradulent Wall Street bubble will pop in shorter order than anticipated.

Within about a week, man's greed and reach for energy have found natural and unyielding limits. Two coal mine disasters and an oil slick that will cause as yet unknown catastrophic damage, loss of life and property. And yet there are still those in this movement who think we need to argue with people who believe there's plenty of easy oil about anything.

It would be so poetic if history recorded that this was the event that marked the cliff edge of human industrial civilization. Maybe then someone will get the point. Maybe then we will find our hundredth monkey... And maybe Mother Earth will have poisoned us with the substance we have so greedily raped her -- and killed each other -- for... "You want oil?... I'll give you oil."

MCR


Posted at Life After the Oil Crash
User avatar
thurnundtaxis
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby barracuda » Sat May 01, 2010 4:45 pm

Ruppert wrote:Terrorism or an act of war has not been ruled out.


Of course it hasn't. BP is an agent of terrorism and basically always has been by any stretch of the definition of the concept. Even on the most surface and straightforward level, they manipulate markets to cause emotional responses and political results which create business (political) opportunities for their company. Terrorism. The oil industry is currently at war with the planet, the world populations and the future itself, as they try to wring the last droplet of money from the pockets of an already beleaguered planetary economy by cutting every available corner and pursuing more and more difficult and risky drilling ventures. This event is an act of war by the oil industry and our complicit politicians against a paradigm shift they cannot stop, and a population they cannot care less about. Fucking capitalism is an act of terror.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby justdrew » Sat May 01, 2010 4:48 pm

they need to bomb and plug the well today

maybe a very large liquid nitrogen release on the seafloor around it wouldn't hurt to try as well
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Hugo Farnsworth » Sat May 01, 2010 4:48 pm

The bad news is that it is bad, an environmental catastrophe.

The good news is that, at this rate of flow, the well will probably collapse on itself ("bridge over"). The other good news is that out of all the places in the world to spill oil, the Gulf of Mexico's ecology is probably better suited to deal with this toxic crap than any other.

What is really killing the GoM's ecology faster than the oil industry is the agricultural runoff in the central USA that ends up in the Mississippi, and then into the Gulf. There are now "dead zones" in the GoM that are devoid of dissolved oxygen (hypoxia). http://lab.visual-logic.com/?p=331

Economic interests in the US have long treated Louisiana like a red-headed stepchild, the same mentality that now strip-mines Appalachia and blows off the tops of mountains in that region. The coast of Louisiana is disappearing because of the intense canal dredging that took place during the 20th century to extract the oil. Oyster beds and estuaries are disappearing so fast that it defies the imagination. That's just one eco-disaster among so many others. So much in that state has been lost forever--I will give you one example: Up until the early 20th century, there were stands of cypress trees so huge and tall (some of them nearly as large as the Sequoia in California) that, had they not fallen to the axes of lumber companies, would be national parks today. Try to imagine paddling down a bayou or in Atchafalaya Bay and seeing a tree the size of a small skyscraper.
Without traversing the edges, the center is unknowable.
User avatar
Hugo Farnsworth
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: Houston
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby thurnundtaxis » Sat May 01, 2010 4:55 pm

justdrew wrote:they need to bomb and plug the well today



Yeah!

So far no one's come up with the original link... and it comes from George Ure...(i know, I know), but here's some more doom candy
that's making the rounds on LATOC:

EDITOR'S NOTE:

Does anybody have a direct link to this at George Ure's site? I can't find it and want to link directly to it.

FWIW, this has been my worst fear since the second or third day of this mess, that there was "something up" that somehow this thing could just keep gushing and the slick would destroy huge swaths of the ocean. Holy crap if that is true, "well it's been fun while it lasted" if that's the case.

Anyhow, a direct link would be nice if somebody can find one, this is going at the top of the LATOC news page.

-Matt Savinar


A reader who is an engineer of considerable experience says watch this one evolve carefully because it is destined to continue to grow and he shares this long (but worthy explanation why:

"Heard your mention of the oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico this morning, and you (and most everyone else except maybe George Noory) are totally missing the boat on how big and bad of a disaster this is.

First fact, the original estimate was about 5,000 gallons of oil a day spilling into the ocean. Now they're saying 200,000 gallons a day. That's over a million gallons of crude oil a week!

I'm engineer with 25 years of experience. I've worked on some big projects with big machines. Maybe that's why this mess is so clear to me.

First, the BP platform was drilling for what they call deep oil. They go out where the ocean is about 5,000 feet deep and drill another 30,000 feet into the crust of the earth. This it right on the edge of what human technology can do. Well, this time they hit a pocket of oil at such high pressure that it burst all of their safety valves all the way up to the drilling rig and then caused the rig to explode and sink. Take a moment to grasp the import of that. The pressure behind this oil is so high that it destroyed the maximum effort of human science to contain it.

When the rig sank it flipped over and landed on top of the drill hole some 5,000 feet under the ocean.

Now they've got a hole in the ocean floor, 5,000 feet down with a wrecked oil drilling rig sitting on top of is spewing 200,000 barrels of oil a day into the ocean. Take a moment and consider that, will you!

First they have to get the oil rig off the hole to get at it in order to try to cap it. Do you know the level of effort it will take to move that wrecked oil rig, sitting under 5,000 feet of water? That operation alone would take years and hundreds of millions to accomplish. Then, how do you cap that hole in the muddy ocean floor? There just is no way. No way.

The only piece of human technology that might address this is a nuclear bomb. I'm not kidding. If they put a nuke down there in the right spot it might seal up the hole. Nothing short of that will work.

If we can't cap that hole that oil is going to destroy the oceans of the world. It only takes one quart of motor oil to make 250,000 gallons of ocean water toxic to wildlife. Are you starting to get the magnitude of this?

We're so used to our politicians creating false crises to forward their criminal agendas that we aren't recognizing that we're staring straight into possibly the greatest disaster mankind will ever see. Imagine what happens if that oil keeps flowing until it destroys all life in the oceans of this planet. Who knows how big of a reservoir of oil is down there.

Not to mention that the oceans are critical to maintaining the proper oxygen level in the atmosphere for human life.

We're humped. Unless God steps in and fixes this. No human can. You can be sure of that.
User avatar
thurnundtaxis
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby ninakat » Sat May 01, 2010 4:57 pm

What's going on beneath the sea? A graphic explanation of the fight to shut off the oil leak
By Times-Picayune Staff
April 30, 2010, 7:42PM

Even as experts scramble to come up with a way of keeping the oil from the Deepwater Horizon well from continuing to flow freely into the Gulf of Mexico, BP concedes that a relief well will eventually have to be drilled in order to successfully shut down the existing leaking well. The graphic below explains what's happening on the ocean floor, and how the relief well will work.

Image
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby ninakat » Sat May 01, 2010 5:01 pm

thurnundtaxis, I've been reading the threads over at LATOC too -- and was going to post that George Ure piece too, although I'm skeptical about him (as you seem to be too) -- so who knows.
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 161 guests