Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:03 am

stefano wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:mobile phone footage being shared via Youtube
Youtube was unavailable in Tunisia until Friday the 14th, when the thing was well on its way.


As were Facebook and even the right to blog.

I think Searcher is referring to the fact that the mobile phone footage played an important role within Tunisia and that it was sent to people in the neighboring countries, whence it was uploaded to Facebook and Youtube. Very early on, as early as the week before Christmas, activists and bloggers in Egypt and elsewhere made the images and vids available all over the Arab world (long before the Western media bothered to notice).
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby stefano » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:07 am

So I just held my nose and went through aangirfan again to see what's up with this "Khomeini was a CIA stooge" idea and found it inconclusive. Very interesting about George Ball and Zbigniew Brzezinski's support for the Ayatollah, all the rest of Engdahl's analysis there is taken from the Shah's own memoirs, which I wouldn't give much credence to. 'But the people loved me'... they all say that. And if Khomeini was a stooge he certainly wasted no time turning around and telling the Yanks to get fucked. I also fail to understand why the Shah's statement that he wanted to hike oil prices is presented in conjunction with a theory that he was deposed to take Iran's oil off the market to get prices up.

The look around aangrifan was enough to make it obvious the guy is clueless though. His post that you quoted upthread is based on an article by Dr. K R Bolton in Foreign Policy Journal. Foreign Policy Journal is a one-man circus that was obviously named that on purpose to confuse people who've heard of Foreign Policy Magazine, an actual widely read publication. Kerry Bolton is secretary of the New Zealand National Front and author of, among others, The Holocaust Myth: the sceptical inquiry and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in context. You may wonder whether an arsehole like that concluded that George Soros is the devil based on meticulous research alone.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:38 am

stefano wrote:The look around aangrifan was enough to make it obvious the guy is clueless though. His post that you quoted upthread is based on an article by Dr. K R Bolton in Foreign Policy Journal.

Wrong kemosabe. I most certainly did not cite or quote that post, which is dated Jan. 20. The post I quoted upthread is this one, dated Jan. 21, and it has nothing to do with any KR Bolton or any alleged link to whatever Godwin's law fantasy you think you're trying to splatter me with (your Bolton link by the way goes to a blank search form, do I detect an honesty malfunction here?) Here's the actual link to the post I quoted:

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/01/t ... frica.html

And here's the post in its entirety, so if you're dying to sniff out some lovely dirt, get sniffing:

Friday, January 21, 2011
TUNISIA LEAST CORRUPT IN NORTH AFRICA
Tunis was not Washington. Website for this image

Big corporations, whether in the USA or in Tunisia, have links to politicians.

Enron founder Ken Lay and his family were among President Bush's biggest financial backers.

Big corporations benefit from their links to top people.

In the USA, the top 'Fortune 500' corporations now account for over 80% of the USA's GDP.

Some people support the toppling of Ben Ali in Tunisia because his family had links to many businesses, including banks, hotels, construction, newspapers, supermarkets and pharmaceuticals.

Imagine you are an American company involved in the dealership in Ford cars or a French company running Monoprix supermarkets.

The law requires you to have a Tunisian partner.

Very many countries, not wanting to be taken over by big global corporations, insist that foreign businesses have 'local' partners.

So, you can choose a member of the Ben Ali family, or, some poorly connected person.

It is not surprising that your Chairman, Board of Directors and your shareholders are happy to have a member of the Ben Ali family as partner.

This allows you to get things done more quickly.

It is not necessarily corrupt.

An Australian friend tells me that when he set up a business in Indonesia, and had to have an Indonesian partner, he deliberately chose a retired Admiral with good connections.

Tunisia is probably less corrupt than the USA.

Ben Ali was popular, until there began a campaign of demonisation. (We have been to Tunisia).

1. In September 2010, Tunisia ratified the international treaty banning cluster munitions, becoming the first country in the Middle East and North Africa to do so.

Tunisia is not believed to have used, produced, stockpiled, or transferred cluster munitions.

(Tunisia: Government Ratifies Cluster Munition Ban Human Rights Watch)

2. The 2010 Corruption Perception Index was released by Transparency International on 26 October 2010.

The report shows that Tunisia is the least corrupt country in North Africa.

(2010 Transparency International Index: Tunisia most transparent ...)

3. Tunisia's ratings in 2010.

August 2010: The 2010 report of the Oxford Business Group on Tunisia referred to the stability and social peace prevailing in Tunisia.

4. September 2010: Tunisia has the most competative economy in Africa, according to the report on world competitiveness 2010-2011 published by the World economic forum of Davos.

It thus moves ahead of numerous EU member states such as Spain (42nd), Portugal (46th), Italy (48th).... Tunisia's ratings in 2010.

5. January 2010: Tunisia is ranked best Arab state as regards quality of life with 59 points out of 100, moving up 3 points compared with 2009, by "International Living'' magazine , out of 194 countries. Tunisia's ratings in 2010.
Starving ragged tools of the CIA?

6. August 2010: US "Newsweek" magazine ranked Tunisia first in Africa in its "100 best countries in the world'' ratings based on social, economic and political data. Tunisia's ratings in 2010.

7. 2010: The report on human development published by the UNDP ranked Tunisia 7th out of 135 countries in terms of 'long-term development indicators'. Tunisia's ratings in 2010.

8. September 2010: Tunisia is ranked first in the Arab region and 6th in the world as regards the access of handicapped people to ICTs, according to ratings announced in Vilnius (Lithuania) by the United Nations at the 5th forum on the governance of the Internet (IGF 2010). Tunisia's ratings in 2010.

9. July 2010 Tunisia's foreign trade registers 31.1% growth.

10. Tunisia has a very low crime rate. In 2002 Tunisia's murder rate stood at 1.22 /100 000, the lowest in Africa. (Country Profile: Profile: Tunisia)

~~
Posted by Anon at 1:29 PM


Let me guess, it was all just a big misunderstanding, right pal? Right.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby stefano » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:08 am

Sorry, I thought I'd read that bit about the NED funding student provocateurs on here, it was there. The point of my post wasn't to "splatter you with a Godwin fantasy"; I was making the point that aangirfan is an amateur with some very distasteful sources and that he's not an authority to appeal to.

I apologise.

lupercal wrote:your Bolton link by the way goes to a blank search form, do I detect an honesty malfunction here?
If you use that search function it gives you a randomised, one-time URL, that's why I put the front page. Pick 'author' on the drop down and enter "Bolton, K R" to get our boy's biblio. Or this link should work for a while.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:27 am

stefano wrote:The point of my post wasn't to "splatter you with a Godwin fantasy";

Do you think anyone over the age of ten doesn't know what the point of your post was? Come on. You played the antisemitism card, you cheated, you got caught. It happens all the time here but usually people don't say anything. Your pal Vanlout pulled the same stunt a couple of days ago, but I let it go. And if I hadn't caught you just now I don't think you'd be apologizing, would you? You're as transparent as glass my friend, but fine, I accept your apology, no hard feelings.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby stefano » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:38 am

Right, so: why do you think the 1979 revolution in Iran was a CIA coup, and what do you make of the three protesters who killed themselves in Tunisia?
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby norton ash » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:28 pm

Your pal Vanlout pulled the same stunt a couple of days ago, but I let it go. And if I hadn't caught you just now I don't think you'd be apologizing, would you? You're as transparent as glass my friend, but fine, I accept your apology, no hard feelings.


Stay classy, loopygal.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:49 pm

^ stay clueless, ashley.
Right, so: why do you think the 1979 revolution in Iran was a CIA coup,

Let's start with the fact that the first order of business of the new regime was to assure the 1980 election of Geppetto Bush and his puppet.
and what do you make of the three protesters who killed themselves in Tunisia?

I'd only heard of one in Tunisia, Mohamed Bouazizi, and true to form his story is full of holes, starting with the recent university degree he supposedly couldn't find a job with. Here's Bouazizi's sister in a Dec. 31 Gulf News interview:
"My brother is 26 years old and did not succeed in getting the high school diploma, so he took up selling fruits and vegetables. . . ."

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/tunisia ... y-1.738967

Add the thrifty recycling of ops that work, the fact that it involved petroleum, the fact that it was vividly photographed and splashed all over everywhere despite alleged media blackouts, etc etc. Spook job.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:45 pm

lupercal wrote:Add the thrifty recycling of ops that work, the fact that it involved petroleum, the fact that it was vividly photographed and splashed all over everywhere despite alleged media blackouts, etc etc. Spook job.


All that (non-existent) photographing and splashing in the Western media that you describe would have been welcomed (if it had existed) by the many young Arab activists who were so frustrated by the global silence about the Tunisian Intifada as Ben Ali's thugs were shooting and torturing protesters:

A representative post from the Egyptian activist blogger Zeinobia, on December 30, 2010:

Thursday, December 30, 2010
It is Biased Biased World


I do not understand how the western media is ignoring completely what is happening in Tunisia from a growing uprising , seriously I do not understand it except it is bias , yes bias.

I do not understand how the mainstream media and social media dedicated itself to support and help the Iranian opposition after the last presidential elections in false hope to down the regime while it is ignoring the uprising of the Tunisian people that really have suffered for a long time in a way you can’t imagine it.

Do not get me wrong I support the legal Iranian reformist opposition demands and because of this I support what is happening in Tunisia ,in fact I am even more bias to Tunisia not only because it is an Arab country that suffers from similar disease Egypt and other Arab countries suffer from but because Tunisia seemed to be forgotten by the modern democratic West that loves to remind us with democracy and the wonders of change day and night.

May be the West believes that this uprising will not reach to anything thanks to the strong fist of the Ben Ali but here we are for the second week and the uprising is increasing thank God and Ben Ali according to all sources including the mighty Wikileaks is near from his end !!? Is not Ben Ali a classical Arab African dictator the West and its media despise !!??

Where are the human rights organizations ?? Will HBO produce a special documentary on that student that was shot down by the security forces in Sidi Bou Zid last week or those young men who are killing themselves from poverty just like the one it produced about poor Nada whom is being exploited for dirty international geopolitics !!? I highly doubt it.

Tunisians I got an idea for you , try to steal some oil from Libya or Algeria and claim that you find a huge oil reserve in Sidi Bou Zid , may be the democratic first world will pay attention to your uprising
and Sarah Palin will call Obama a loser for not downing that anti-American regime in Tunis !!

Even better spread a rumor that Ben Ali got a secret Nuke program in cooperation with Iran at one his palaces and that he will attack the forests of Carmel as soon as he gets some rockets from N.Korea, you will find the whole twitterville avatars with red layer !!!

We know it is biased world and history taught us over and over that the West moves only for its interest and the quest to our independence and freedom depend on our own strength , we know that but we just had enough from fake empty words.

From my heart a big salute to Tunisia the green , children of Aboul Qacem Echebbi send his message to your tyranny and know that if the people want to live free , destiny will respond.

COMMENTS

Mohammed Gamal said...

I can't believe you didn't firgure it out yet. Pro-american Pinochet-like figures don't and will not get the same treatment Anti-American Pinochet-like figures will get. Go figure!
12/30/2010 02:16:00 PM

.... Link
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:34 pm

Behind the CIA in Iran was British Petroleum, which at that time was the Department of Oil of the UK Civil Service. Screwing with BP was screwing with Britain, so Mossadech had to go.
Lupercal, I am waiting for you to identify a single point of UK national interest that would be served by overthrowing the existing Tunisian regime. The main theme on the BBC has not been "Yahoo! the wicked meanie is overthrown, God Bless a new liberal Arab democracy!". Nope.
It was "The Tunisians need to know that we (U.K.) want stability there; we want the demonstrators off the street NOW, regardless of what you are going to do."

Having watched a lot of coverage, it actually stuck out like a sore thumb that the BBC people didnt have a clue what was coming next. They showed all the signs of being event-led NOT event-driving.

I have no doubt that every major intel agency has some presence and agenda in Tunis. However the bottom line is that to suggest that this effort by the Tunisian people is designed and directed by the CIA / MI6 is giving intel way way too much credit.

FFS most CIA people are analysts these days who are about as near the Bourne Identity as Peter Griffin from Family Guy and will be sitting at their desks in Virginia watching the BBC coverage and writing reports about it.

(BTW The Soros Foundation has enough clout and funds to do it's own colour revolutions, without being Langley's bagman.)

The other aspect is that it is to my mind very worth checking out the belief that Arabs couldn't organise their own revolution without the all powerful western spooks directing it.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:47 pm

Searcher08 wrote:The other aspect is that it is to my mind very worth checking out the belief that Arabs couldn't organise their own revolution without the all powerful western spooks directing it.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby stefano » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:15 am

lupercal wrote:Let's start with the fact that the first order of business of the new regime was to assure the 1980 election of Geppetto Bush and his puppet.
Yeah... it wasn't really, though, was it? There was almost a year between Khomeini coming to power and the taking of the US Embassy (in which time Khomeini actually sabotaged a meeting between his PM and Brzezinski because the US let the Shah in), and then another full year until the end of the elections, when they were released after collaboration with Bush. It obviously wasn't the reason Khomeini got in. And then once in charge Reagan promptly started supporting Iraq.

lupercal wrote:I'd only heard of one in Tunisia, Mohamed Bouazizi, and true to form his story is full of holes, starting with the recent university degree he supposedly couldn't find a job with.
Bouazizi died on 19 December; on the 24th Hassan Ben Salah Neji publicly electrocuted himself in Sidi Bou Zid by climbing to the top of an electricity pole and grabbing the wires. Allaa Hidouri, 23, electrocuted himself on 11 January. I don't see what's suspicious about people getting the story wrong; graduate unemployment is the big story so it's not that odd that people assumed that was his case. The true story comes out now, precisely because journalists can go to Sidi Bou Zid and talk to his family.

lupercal wrote:the fact that it involved petroleum
It didn't.

lupercal wrote:the fact that it was vividly photographed and splashed all over everywhere
It wasn't.

As for the "Twitter did it" theme, I read this good bit by Nanjala Nyabola this morning (excerpts, my bold):

Nanjala Nyabola wrote:As someone who has tried to use social networking sites to organise political action and failed, I'm still inclined to stay on the middle-ground with this one. I agree with those who argue that the internet and the mobile phone, much like the Gutenberg Press before them, do not create revolutionaries. The desire to effect social change in one's community is more a reflection of personality and passion, and a revolutionary will emerge whether or not he or she has access to the internet or to Twitter. Indeed, the greatest change-makers on the continent, the revolutionaries of yore like Cabral and Kimathi, did not even need the printed press to get their message out and organise successful resistance to colonialism. Many of the young people who came out in support of the PAIGC (Partido Africano da Independência da Guiné e Cabo Verde - African Party for the Independence of Guinea and Cape Verde) and Mau Mau couldn't even read or write, let alone produce pamphlets in support of their causes.
[...]
Acknowledging that social networking or technology in general has a role to play in catalysing activism doesn't diminish the agency or power of those who participate. Rather, what it does is acknowledge that the world has changed, and social activism with it. Technology, in the hands of passionate and organised individuals can and has been vital in fomenting social change in Tunisia and further afield, and this should not be underplayed. To corrupt an old saying, in as much as a good worker never blames their tools because they know that a tool is only as effective as those who wield it, anyone who's ever work on a farm will tell you, it doesn't hurt to have good tools.


Searcher08 wrote:The other aspect is that it is to my mind very worth checking out the belief that Arabs couldn't organise their own revolution without the all powerful western spooks directing it.
Yeah that's par for the course in the 'arc of instability'. I'm actually more offended by the way these guys, because they now believe the CIA is behind every change of government and the CIA are the bad guys, twist themselves into knots to paint the Shah as some kind of people's hero and Ben Ali as a man with a heart of gold once you learned to see behind his gruff exterior. It moves the position from ignorant to insulting.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:51 am

stefano wrote:I'm actually more offended by the way these guys, because they now believe the CIA is behind every change of government and the CIA are the bad guys. . . .

:shock:

p.s. get thee to a wikileaks thread before you blow everybody else's cover too. :-P
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby lupercal » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 am

Next up: Egyptian destabilization. I won't say I predicted it but when that church bomb went off I knew something spooky was up. And whaddya know, Voice of America, the NYT, the UK Guardian, Time, Bloomberg, BBC, CNN, Ha'aretz, even the frickin' Business Insider are on this one bigtime. Here's a multiple-author, multiple-video, multiple-page, four-tab internet spread on an event that happened a few hours ago in the Wall Street Journal with this telling paragraph:

Tunisia's outpouring was relatively spontaneous. The rally in Egypt was planned and organized by a coalition of regime opponents and a pro-labor youth movement. The opposition groups spent the previous week before Tuesday's so-called "Day of Wrath" rallying support on Facebook and Twitter.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... %3Darticle


Organized by "a pro-labor youth movement" and WSJ has a staff of 500 covering it? Click the link if you think I'm kidding. Not that it means anything by itself, and not that Egyptians don't have reason to take to the streets, but yes, this is passing strange, and yes, I am very suspicious.
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Re: Tunisia's color-coded regime change: Bogus, fake, or..??

Postby nathan28 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:49 pm

stefano wrote:The look around aangrifan was enough to make it obvious the guy is clueless though. His post that you quoted upthread is based on an article by Dr. K R Bolton in Foreign Policy Journal. Foreign Policy Journal is a one-man circus that was obviously named that on purpose to confuse people who've heard of Foreign Policy Magazine, an actual widely read publication. Kerry Bolton is secretary of the New Zealand National Front and author of, among others, The Holocaust Myth: the sceptical inquiry and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in context. You may wonder whether an arsehole like that concluded that George Soros is the devil based on meticulous research alone.



Totally irrelevant here, but Bolton was unless I've got him confused with someone else involved with the NZ Satanist right for a length of time (though my impression was that NZ satanism as a political force fell apart in a matter of years over personality conflicts).
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