Naw, ya know what?

[Project Willow]

yes, you're right. me and every other guy on here "runs the world".

Oh here, we got another one, a poor, male victim of misogyny.

Yeah, I think I'm getting ready to be done with this backwater too.

[Iamwhomiam]

Way uncalled for Waugs. Nordic, I know you mean well, but really... acrimony? Like 'cuda advised, sometime shutting-up and listening (or reading) without comment is best.

The quietude of introspection often brings illumination.

[waugs]

such sweeping, presumptive statements about people with different genitalia than you...

What, you already run the world, you got to rub our noses in it when we say we're unhappy about it?

.......

Please don't leave me here alone women!

yes, you're right. me and every other guy on here "runs the world".

Waugs why don't you just back off? Doesn't this fit into the validation thread? They're angry for a reason, let em be angry. They're good people.

When i read sweeping generalizations about any group or type of people, it offends me and I have every right to express that here.

It really sucks that there are misogynists assholes in the world, but i don't particularly like being lumped in with them.

I know no one here would tolerate that kind of talk about other races, so why are you defending this type of speech about the opposite sex?

Now i'll shut up.

[seemslikeadream]

This is all why I left here in the first place.

RI is the good ol' boys club, no tits allowed (unless we're willing to suck it - or perhaps them! - up). Clearly discussion of any sort that threatens the boys' points of view can't be had, and any attempts to engage in communication beyond what the boys want to hear is going to be met with failure (re: futile frustration); much less attempting to let them know any part of a woman's experience.

Its all our fault you know, original sin, ate the apple, etc. virgin/whore... whatnot.

This is why I burned out and quit with the feminism thing. Its a useless and futile task. You can't teach men anything, just like you can't change the world. The only way around it is to simply not engage with them, and pull your own little world together as best as you can, as individuals.

I'm outta here.

Have fun, boys.

The women who once ruled on Earth, now seem content to be ruled by its destroyers - Michael Tsarion



Please do not leave, don't let a few sway your opinion of the many

[Searcher08]

I was originally going to PM Maddy to ask her to reconsider, however events seemed to have moved fast.

My suggestion is to either turn the misogyny thread into a women only thread or to create another one from which men are asked to keep out of.

I feel my needs of being heard will not be met in this thread, so Im out.

[Iamwhomiam]

Waugs wrote:

"It really sucks that there are misogynists assholes in the world, but i don't particularly like being lumped in with them."

Then I suggest you take your issue up with them, because your sex lumps you in with them, and that's not the fault of Maddy, your mother, or any other woman.

[Burnt Hill]

I heartily agree with Maddies assessment of this place being a good ol' club. That part can be pretty frustrating. But not in the sense that its a boys club.
The clickish part bothered me recently with the "DogTooth" thread.
For the most part I dont know or care about the gender of the poster, I know there have been some gender specific postings lately.
Its never a good time to make a decision while you are upset. Thing is, I only know in general what a few are upset about.
So I wish we could talk specifically( I am a little dense) about what bothers Maddie and C-Watcher.
I'll bet they have a lot more support than they realize.
on edit- okay so I am catching up on the misogyny thread, one I have avoided with intent.

[praeclarus]

Ho hum. I had to read 80+ pages of yadda yadda to figure
out what this todo was all about. What a waste of several
minutes of life that was.

So ... why don't people just quit if they want to quit? Put in
the wind and be gone? Eh? That's what I want to know.

Anyway, it is not necessary to request these folks to not leave
because they will be back. I can say this with 99.89% certainty
based on years of study (aka wasting time on line) of forum
behaviors.

And in closing, dear reader, barracuda ought to be summarily
fired as moderator. And don't ask me for reasons why because
there will be none forthcoming but I could make list as long as
several micro-penii without even thinking about it too hard.

Pip pip.

[barracuda]

Thanks for your fine contribution to the community, Mr. Obvious H. Sock.

[praeclarus]

Thanks for your fine contribution to the community, Mr. Obvious H. Sock.

No problem. I'm here to serve.

Now then, I'm not quite grocking you on the sock comment. Are
you sort of in a round about way accusing me of being a sock puppet?
It that's what it means, grow a pair and come right out and say it.
And then back it up.

Oh, and let's add this to the list of reasons you should be fired.
Moderator my arse.

[Jeff]

What this place needs right now is less of this.

praeclarus, I'm suspending your account for a week.

[Stephen Morgan]

It's like the night of the long knives around here. Can't we all just get along? Maddy and C_w should stay, and Maddy should realise the efforts the boards admin have put into making the place more "female friendly", which I obviously disapprove of but recognise. And waugs is technically right, of course, but I'd assume Maddy's statement was motivated by anger and frustration, which doesn't make it excusable but makes it understandable. iamwhoiam's statement that people can be "lumped in" together on the basis of sex is much more objectionable.

On the whole, though we should probably have kept the misogyny thread on the subject of otters.

Nonetheless, we can't have areas which we can't discuss. It would be unfortunately if people saw something like the story which started the circumcision thread, decided to post it, then had second thoughts because they didn't want to get shouted down or start a flame war. So if we could all just grow a thicker skin on the one hand and make a bit more effort not to offend people on the other hand, and if we could all just respect each other's opinions and engage with them reasonably and moderately rather than dismissing them, that would be nice.

The pixels in front of you represent people and deserve a bit of consideration.

[82_28]

Misogyny thread fucked up a lot about this place in my view. And not that it wasn't a noble subject that the community here could not tackle in its own malformed way to get at some "truth", but it turned into the opposite. And absolutely, absolutely nothing done "wrong" in my view by C_w insofar as "creating" it.

But, it has certainly soured me about here and who and what wants to post around and about.

Peeps need to get a grip. This is the Internet. And if I could come up with a place with more beautiful people and personalities in the whole of the English speaking web, this place would be it. This attrition has gone too far. And all about gender to boot? WTF? There is precisely nothing we can do about what attributes we were born with. You're going to have male opinions and female opinions. And to that I say "fuck that shit". We have opinions. There is no polar difference. We are here.

I was wholesale offended by some here, but it does not make me appreciate them any less. I have told some my piece and it shall be left at that. I appeared to have been flipping out, but what I was doing was carving out a space for myself which I don't give a fuck if you're a man or a woman, I come here in peace and I relayed a story -- actually in hopes of circumventing cannibalistic argument which ALL was taken the wrong way.

I really fear good ol' RI may have run its course.

Shouldn't we carry on and be friends still?

[Searcher08]

After sleeping on this, I wanted to say some stuff...

I have felt really upset and disturbed by what has been happening here.

For years, I always thought this was a place that as long as one had a good heart and came from my 'being authentic' then one would be safe 'under Jeff's wing' to express just about anything within the boards guidelines, and regardless of how heated debates may have got, I always felt that I would be able to have a beer at The Lounge.

Since last November, when the new gender 'rule' was introduced, I have seen what I perceive as bullying, baiting gang warfare - and at times it's felt like I have walked into an online version of Kafka's Trial. I was very concerned when it was introduced - not because of the subject, but because it lacked clarity about what was now ok and what wasnt, it didnt frame the new expectations cleanly and my concerns were not taken on board.

I had seen this happen in a corporate organisation (a big UK recruitment company) where a well-intentioned but very unclear H.R. policy was introduced at the top.
The result was disastrous.
Different interpretations of the policy were enacted by one set of people who had the backing of management, while another set of people suddenly found their communications were being monitored, their membership of various important committees withdrawn and people were getting marched out of the building for violating this policy. It became like "The night of the long knives".
People were told (also did so anyway by themselves) to shut up and watch what they said. They did. Everyone started second-guessing each other about saying things that might 'offend' in case they ended up without a job. People's expressiveness (and quickly after than their morale) crashed.

There are new rules at work - but they are neither clear nor explicit. I fear even saying this will be taken as bad faith, dissent and even hate speech. People who are questioned are ok-ed to scream personal abuse, while some genuinely bewildered questioners of what is actually going on are suspended.

Personally, I would love to see the word 'offended' banned. It seems on reflection to just end up being a cover up for having to think.

When someone like me FFS (who has almost never in years at RI got PMs) starts getting multiple PMs from multiple people saying either "I wanted to say what you said but I'm afraid to speak" or "Let it go, mate, you'll get into trouble" and when I'm worrying IRL about how people are treated here... it seems to point to something worth discussing.

Or perhaps it's simpler - technology moves on, online forums are not such a great way to connect online anymore; maybe 82, you are right and R.I. may have run it's course.

[Jeff]

For years, I always thought this was a place that as long as one had a good heart and came from my 'being authentic' then one would be safe 'under Jeff's wing' to express just about anything within the boards guidelines, and regardless of how heated debates may have got, I always felt that I would be able to have a beer at The Lounge.

Besides the bit about the sanctuary of my sheltering wings - yes. That's what I want this place to be. And when that's what it isn't, something's wrong.

I'm frankly uncertain right now what to do about the current toxicity, though I do think that rushing new rules into the breach is nobody's answer. And I do promise to be more present than I have in recent weeks.

Good will and intent to do no harm always appreciated.