The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby semper occultus » Sun May 06, 2012 4:34 pm

Greek crisis: economic misery forces workers from cities and a return to a barter economy

By Alex Spillius, Volos
www.telegraph.co.uk

6:29PM BST 03 May 2012


Sitting in the shade of a mulberry tree in a market square of Volos, Eleni Boubouli is selling dried wild herbs.

She picks them herself from the Mount Olympus and other peaks of Thessaly.

The simple stall is her way of piecing together a living during Greece'songoing crisis that includes teaching the odd English lesson, a bit of yoga and some financial support from her retired parents.


"You really need to think about survival now, really think," she says. "Our situation is so bad I don't know how to describe it." Like many Greeks, she feels that the economic maelstrom that has engulfed the country for the past two years will only get worse. A parliamentary election on Sunday, the first since the full onset of the crisis, inspires no confidence that the storm will be calmed.


Rather than wait for the despised political class to improve their lot, Greeks are taking their future into their own hands in ways that involve reversion to the past.


Bartering and exchange schemes that eliminate the euro are popping up across the country. Farmers are evading supermarkets and selling directly to customers at substantial discounts. And in a reverse of decades of urban migration, there is strong anecdotal evidence that people are leaving Athens in their droves to return to their provinces where they or their parents were raised, to live off the land, find menial work or live without the debts that city life entails.


Ms Boubouli does accept euros for her produce but also TEM, the Greek acronym for Local Alternative Unit, a coupon scheme that allows members of a network to exchange services and products. Volos, a city on the Aegean coast 200 miles north of Athens, is one of ten such set-ups, with another ten about to start soon.

She recently used 30 TEMs to pay for some legal advice from Elena Dimitriou, a lawyer, who in turn used the coupons for piano lessons, an electrician and food at a weekly market for TEM-friendly producers.

"The scheme gives me some protection from this crisis," says Mrs Dimitrou.

"With TEM I can purchase things that I just couldn't afford any more because business is so bad." Another member is Katya Larisaiou, 35, who joined last week and accepts the coupons at the Petit Fleur, a pretty, pastel-coloured café she owns in the town centre.

"Someone said to me that all this bartering is going back 150 years, and I know what he meant. But we have to go backwards to figure out where we should be going," she says, speaking fluent English learnt as a psychology student at the University of Essex.

Arriving back in a hamlet outside Volos a couple of years ago, after ten years in the cauldron of Athens, was, she says, a rediscovery of the virtues of village life.

"I think villages are the future for Greeks the way things are going for our country. You can maintain an acceptable standard of life and Greek nature is fantastic. We have to get back to simple things." Back in the capital, Theodoros Mitropoulos is planning to relocate soon to the village in the Peloponnesian peninsula where he was brought up.

His employment as a carpenter was ended two months ago. For the six months before that he was only paid sporadically.

In Greece's boom period before and after the 2004 Olympic Games, he was never out of work and enjoyed a spell travelling Europe outfitting shops.

"Before the issue was how much I liked the job, what I could get out of it," he says. "Now there is no work in Athens, simply none." The bare facts of the crisis brought on by the government’s bankcruptcy are staggering: unemployment is at 22 per cent, youth unemployment at 52 per cent; suicides and use of anti-depressants are soaring.

Families’ lives are being turned upside down; the normal middle-class expectations of work and wealth accumulation, and the ability to determine one’s well-being, have been shattered.

Once resettled in his childhood home, Mr Mitropoulos plans to deliver fish from Patras, a major port, door-to-door in surrounding towns.

"We have some land for animals and growing vegetables. I can use some and sell some. Village life is less expensive, people share things, a café owner doesn't always charge you if he knows you or you've done him a favour. People share." He will leave his wife, a private English teacher whose income has dropped by half, and daughter, a student, in the city. Once his 26-year-old son has finished military service later in the year, he is likely to join the exodus of young people overseas, to Germany or Britain.

Many middle-aged Greeks fear for their children's future more than theirs.

But amid the rage against the austerity demanded by the second £110 billion European rescue loan, there is awareness that the older generations must shoulder some of the blame.

"We all lived off the government directly or indirectly," says Mr Mitropoulos. Voters accepted state largesse without questioning the wisdom or affordability of what was being offered, he thinks, pointing out that his own sister retired at the age of 43 with a full pension – now reduced – of £1,500 per month after just 20 years' government service.

"We all expected the state to give and now that has gone because of the bail-out and we have nothing to replace it. That will take a long time."
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 06, 2012 5:05 pm

Chill the fuck out, everyone.

Don't just repeat the CNN spin. They had nothing to say about the actual election results, just claiming ND "wins" and a lot of panic about Golden Dawn (which is capturing a demographic that existed before, but had its home within ND).

Here are the current actual results:

http://www.naftemporiki.gr/elections/story?id=2174441
ΝΔ με 19,7% και 108 έδρες, δεύτερος ο ΣΥΡΙΖΑ με 16,4% και 47 έδρες και τρίτο το ΠΑΣΟΚ με 13,4% και 38 έδρες. Ακολουθούν: Ανεξάρτητοι Έλληνες με 10,5% και 30 έδρες, ΚΚΕ: 8,8% με 25 έδρες, Χρυσή Αυγή 6,8% και 19 έδρες, Δημοκρατική Αριστερά 6% με 17 έδρες, ΛΑΟΣ 3,1% με 8 έδρες και Οικολόγοι Πράσινοι επίσης 3,1% με 8 έδρες.

New Democracy - 19.7% - 108 seats
Syriza (prog-left in the current lame Eurosocialist mode) - 16.4% - 47 seats
Pasok - 13.4% - 38 seats
Independent Greeks (fake-unity quasi-reaction anti-austerity nationalists) - 10.5% - 30 seats
KKE (our forever Commies, totally solid on questions of default and drachma and nationalization, unfortunately unapologetically still Stalinist and full of control racketeers) - 8.8% - 25 seats
Golden Dawn (brrrrrrrr) - 6.8% - 19 seats
Democratic Left ("clean politics" left, unfortunately hard for me to distinguish from Syriza) - 6% - 17 seats
LAOS (as I remember them another quasi-reactionary anti-immigrant party) - 3.1% 0 - 8 seats
Greens - 3.1% - 8 seats.

First point to make, the parliamentary system gives an incredible advantage to the top vote-getter, so a 20% vote for ND gives the fuckers 35% of the seats, very hard to make any coalition without them.

ND + PASOK, the two Grand Racket parties who probably have never been below a combined 75%, fall to combined 33.1%, and that's the big story. But they still have 146 seats. That's why it's a racket, kiddies!

Bourgeois left (Syriza + DL + Greens) = 25.4%, 72 seats. KKE + Left = 35.9%, 97 seats. Already a very unlikely combo, unfortunately. Even with PASOK (assuming a rebellion by those who understand continued coalition with ND is suicide) they'd get only to 135. Total nominal left (Syriza, Pasok, KKE, DL, Greens) are at 52.3% but only 135 seats.

New right-independents (IG + LAOS) = 13.6%, 38 seats. With our brand-new Nazi threat of Golden Dawn, that's 20.4% and 57 seats. Total nominal right (i.e., ND + "unity" centrists + GD) is 40.1% but have 165 seats. (However, there's no fear of anyone letting GD into a coalition just yet.)

Another 7.6% went for the other 25+ parties in the race!

So, odds are better than even that ND+PASOK will con one of the third parties either into the government or as the tolerators for a renewed Grand Coalition. Might be tempting for IG or Syriza, and suicide for either, especially Syriza. Basically it's suicide for anyone who enters into the coalition for ND. (So watch them do it.)

Very slim chance of a "Second Place" coalition of Syriza + PASOK + IGs, which is still only 115 seats and needs tolerance from at least two other parties.

What does it take to unite a core of left parties around DEFAULT and DRACHMA, have them enter into a non-compete agreement, and take it to a new election? The problem is that KKE really is gangster and Stalinist (that's not a label, they're still literally honoring Comrade Stalin), or they would have been number one in this election.

Fucking country, I swear.
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby Jeff » Mon May 07, 2012 12:41 pm

Thanks for that post, Jack.

Two things I've learned about the Greek system and can't quite process: The party that finishes first gets an automatic bonus of 50 seats. And nearly 20% of the votes in yesterday's election count for nothing, because they were cast for parties which didn't meet the 3% threshold.

Have I got that right? Whoever came up with those rules? One or both of the parties which usually finish first?

Now the left knows it's own strength, maybe the best outcome would be another election.
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby vanlose kid » Mon May 07, 2012 12:53 pm

^^

would like to just second that. thanks Jack. have been reading around trying to get a grip of the possible permutations and yours lays it out straight.

looks like the generals win again.

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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby Jeff » Mon May 07, 2012 3:06 pm

New Democracy's failed at finding a coalition. Now Syriza gets a shot, which I expect will fail also. Then, PASOK. And then, new elections.
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby JackRiddler » Mon May 07, 2012 6:10 pm

They used to have a more complicated algorithm where if the vote split almost evenly 20 ways, a plurality of 6% would get a majority of seats. I forgot that they switched to this almost just-as absurd 50-seat bonus. The "winner" gets to distribute these as though they were voted from actual districts, so there are now neighborhoods in Athens where Syriza got the double of ND's vote but only half as many representatives. In case anyone should wonder why these bozos are afraid to appear in front of their "constituents."

The only rational approach from all of the former third parties would be to demand a single-vote session to eliminate the bonus and change to straight proportional representation. Unfortunately in my experience this just isn't how political parties ever think; too procedural, not enough flag-waving and pie. Besides which, 50 politicians would lose their precious jobs.

The Nazis underlined that they are Nazis at their post-election press conference by having a bunch of thugs suddenly run out into the room before the leader and scream commands at the press to stand up and salute and be silent while the leader speaks, or leave the room. There were a lot of standers in camera view (small room) but I have to presume these were Nazis followers and not bourgeois press; things are not yet that bad. The main threat they pose right now is in what kind of pitches one of the bigger parties may be willing to try in the effort to get at the Nazi voters, since obviously any fraction is useful toward winning the bonus seats.

Here are the revised final results:

Image

ND is now under 19 and just 2.1 ahead of Syriza, which still "earns" them more than double the seats and an effective veto on any government without them. LAOS and the Greens didn't make the 3% cut after all, so now you've got seven parliamentary parties instead of nine and that's why ND is still at 108 (58). The seven parties have 81 percent, so yes, 19 percent voted for I don't know since you can't freaking find it. (Maybe undead can find the official Greek election site.) Except 3 each went to LAOS and the Greens.

ND+Pasok = 32%, 149 - scandalously close! All they need to do is find two "rebels" for the status quo from any of the other parties and they're in. Then again, that's a fast track to a real overthrow by popular rebellion (won't call it a revolution until they actually know what they're for). Which, in practice, means new elections either way: no coalition forms or a grand coalition causes too much heat to survive. Even the science-fictional combination of Syriza + Pasok + IG + Independent Left (DIMAR) only gets to 144, and would need the KKE to tolerate.

But hey, Crete's still almost solid for PASOK. Just say Venizelos, they're there.

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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby undead » Wed May 09, 2012 5:38 am

Everyone here expects that there will be a second election considering the parties' inability to agree about anything. The second election will be between Syriza and New Democracy. I can not say which party I would support if I could vote here because their policies are almost impossible to find in English. If it comes down to Syriza and ND, this will be another opportunity for a referendum on EU membership because Syriza is at least representing itself as being for leaving the EU in some way, as I understand it.

New Democracy
- 19.7% - 108 seats
Independent Greeks (fake-unity quasi-reaction anti-austerity nationalists) - 10.5% - 30 seats
Golden Dawn (brrrrrrrr) - 6.8% - 19 seats
LAOS (as I remember them another quasi-reactionary anti-immigrant party) - 3.1% 0 - 8 seats


Syriza (prog-left in the current lame Eurosocialist mode) - 16.4% - 47 seats
Pasok - 13.4% - 38 seats
KKE (our forever Commies, totally solid on questions of default and drachma and nationalization, unfortunately unapologetically still Stalinist and full of control racketeers) - 8.8% - 25 seats
Greens - 3.1% - 8 seats.
Democratic Left ("clean politics" left, unfortunately hard for me to distinguish from Syriza) - 6% - 17 seats

I the event of a runoff vote these would be likely bedfellows. New Democracy will probably win. Nobody is holding their breathe here.
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby undead » Wed May 09, 2012 5:40 am

^^^^^

Btw Jack the number above for ND is off some how. 108 out of 300 seats is 36% not 19.7%.

Never mind, those are the extra seats from the insignificantly tiny parties, I guess. They should call that the Big Fish Eats Small Fishes rule.
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby JackRiddler » Wed May 09, 2012 9:58 am

undead wrote:^^^^^

Btw Jack the number above for ND is off some how. 108 out of 300 seats is 36% not 19.7%.

Never mind, those are the extra seats from the insignificantly tiny parties, I guess. They should call that the Big Fish Eats Small Fishes rule.


The percentages are of the total popular vote. The numbers are for the seats. ND gets a 50-vote bonus for being "first," in a just and proportional voting system they'd have about 50 seats out of 250.
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby undead » Wed May 09, 2012 12:54 pm

So if those numbers are accurate a runoff vote would favor Syriza 50-40 over New Democracy. I don't know if that would mean progress but it would be interesting to see in any case. The Golden Dawn taking 7% is scandalous and the topic of much conversation. At least LAOS, the self avowed orthodox master race Greek aliens from outer space party, is nowhere to be seen.
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby JackRiddler » Wed May 09, 2012 2:50 pm

LAOS got close to 3 percent, as did the Greens.

The Greek election system, like the American although using radically different means, embodies the authoritarian principle that There Can Only Be One (In Charge). Thus the 50-seat bonus, coalitions are anathema. The bonus will still be there and there will be no runoff at the second election. Syriza appears to have a 10-point advantage on maximum voter pool but ND has the dynamics. As it becomes clearer that it's them vs. Syriza, they'll pick up from LAOS, the Nazis and the IGs (a phenomenon that exists for people who can no longer bear voting for obvious corruption but cannot stand to turn left). The extremely well-organized and entrenched PASOK on the other hand has probably reached its rock bottom. It will be hard to peel off any more from their share. What they have left are the voters who are PASOK team members, and you can think of it as a team (i.e., harder for people to drop than a party).
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby JackRiddler » Wed May 09, 2012 9:49 pm

.

A good report reviews much of the same ground.

It occurs to me that if Syriza is serious about their own program then they are effectively for the drachma, whether they realize that or not, since the suspension of debt repayments for five years will cause the Germans to can the bailout and move to get Greece kicked out of the euro.

Maybe things will work out well in the next vote after all. There will be no sustainable government on this round, it is near certain.



http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/09/ ... in-greece/

May 09, 2012

Syriza, the radical left-wing coalition that campaigned on suspending debt payment and cancelling austerity measures, comes first in all major cities and among people aged 18-35

The Seismic Results in Greece


by ERIC TOUSSAINT


At the May 6 polls, the radical left-wing coalition Syriza becomes the second “party” in numbers of voters as it moves from 4.5% at the previous elections (2009) to 16.8% (52 MPs instead of 13). It is the first party in the major agglomerations and among people aged 18-35.

The Socialist Party (PASOK) lost 2/3 of the votes it had received in 2009 (from 44% to 13.2%, a loss of 119 MPs, from 160 to 41!). PASOK pays ‘cash on the nail’ their rigorous austerity programme and subjection to the ‘Troika’ and big private business interests.

New Democracy, the main right-wing party that entered the government in December 2011, still comes first but with an enormously reduced score down from 33.5% to 18.9%. However, it gains seats because of an iniquitous disposition that grants 50 seats as a bonus to the party that pooled most votes. So while it lost 40% in votes New Democracy wins 17 MPs (from 91 to 108). On the eve of the elections on May 6, New Democracy only had 71 MPs because of many defecting representatives (PASOK had lost 31 MPs from 2010 to 2012 as a protest against its antipopular stance). While New Democracy only has 2.1% more than Syriza, it has twice as many seats (108 for New Democracy against 52 for Syriza).

Golden Dawn, a neonazi group with paramilitary leanings gets into parliament. From marginal votes it gets close to 7% and 21 MPs. It will thus receive public funding to develop.

The Communist party KKE records a slight progression (from 7.5 to 8.5%, it wins five seats from 21 to 26).

Democratic Left -DIMAR- (that split off from Syriza in 2010-2011) gets 6% votes and 19 MPs.

The Greens don’t reach the 3% threshold to have any MP, as is the case for the far right party LAOS that pays for its participation in the government (it had 17 MPs after the former elections).

Antarsya (far left coalition) stays around 1.1%

Left of PASOK: Syriza + PC (KKE) + Dimar + Antarsya = 97 seats (as for now) instead of 34 seats in 2009. It might be the highest results of left-wing parties since 1958.

On the far right Golden Dawn got 21 seats against 17 for LAOS in 2009.

The showing of the neonazi party is most troubling result (see the analysis of a fast evolving context by Yorgos Mitraliashttp://www.cadtm.org/spip.php? ... ticle=7899, in French)

The principal point to be retained from this election is the highly positive result of the Syriza coalition that ran its campaign on the issue of immediate and unconditional suspension of Greek debt repayments for a period of three to five years, the cancellation of austerity measures enforced since 2010, the non-fulfilment of agreements with the Troika, the nationalization of a significant part of the banking sector, the need to set up a left-wing government to implement these measures. Several Syriza MPs actively support a citizens’ audit of the Greek debt and the need to cancel illegitimate debts, among them Sofia Sakorafa, who broke up with Pasok in 2010 as a protest against austerity. We will see whether Syriza will keep this orientation after its electoral success. It is encouraging to know that so many voters supported these radical proposals. The future will tell whether Syriza can meet the challenge of this remarkable popular support. “On his upcoming talks to explore whether he will be able to form a majority coalition with parties of the left and parties representing environmental concerns, the head of Syriza laid out the five points that will be the focus of discussions:

1. The immediate cancellation of all impending measures that will impoverish Greeks further, such as cuts to pensions and salaries.

2. The immediate cancellation of all impending measures that undermine fundamental workers’ rights, such as the abolition of collective labor agreements.

3. The immediate abolition of a law granting MPs immunity from prosecution, reform of the electoral law and a general overhaul of the political system.

4. An investigation into Greek banks, and the immediate publication of the audit performed on the Greek banking sector by BlackRock. 5. The setting up of an international auditing committee to investigate the causes of Greece’s public deficit, with a moratorium on all debt servicing until the findings of the audit are published.”[1]

The task will not be easy as so far the communist party KKE, with which it would be necessary to enter into an alliance, categorically declines, claiming that Syriza is a pseudo revolutionary party and retreating into some haughty isolation.

See the final results at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... esults-map

The map of votes by constituencies is also most useful. Click on constituencies to see results.

See 2009 and 2012 results: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lect ... es_de_2012



Eric Toussaint, doctor in political sciences (University of Liège and University of Paris 8), president of CADTM Belgium, member of the president’s commission for auditing the debt in Ecuador (CAIC), member of the scientific council of ATTAC France, coauthor of “La Dette ou la Vie”, Aden-CADTM, 2011, contributor to ATTAC’s book “Le piège de la dette publique. Comment s’en sortir”, published by Les liens qui libèrent, Paris, 2011.

Translated by Mike Krolikovsky and Christine Pagnoulle.

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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby JackRiddler » Fri May 11, 2012 2:22 pm

Reload image if it doesn't work right away.

Image

Translation, from the top row down.

"Parliamentary Elections 2012 - 100% of Voting-Age Population"
(logos of left and right third-parties, red bar) "POPULISM"
(logo of sleeping person in bed, caption: NOT VOTING, gray bar) "AH, FUCK IT."
(logos of PASOK & ND, green and blue bar) "ALZHEIMERS"
(logo of KKE, red bar) "I DON'T REMEMBER THE QUESTION BUT - NO!"
(logos of Greens and other progressive left parties, green bar) "COMMON SENSE"
"WE SHALL TURN OVER AND CONTINUE TO SLEEP!"

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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby undead » Fri May 11, 2012 3:36 pm

The Golden Dawn neo nazi party steals ancient Greek esoteric artwork for their totally parasitic and unoriginal social disease. How distasteful.

Image

Image

Image
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Re: The new wave of Greek riots. May 2011

Postby wordspeak2 » Sun May 13, 2012 5:11 pm

7% of the vote unnerves me. And what did Le Pen Jr. just get- around that, as well, I believe, or a little higher.
At least the KKE beat them, though. Go, KKE.

Weird as the specifics may be, this parliamentarianism beats U.S. pseudo-democracy by a landslide.
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