Satan

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Re: Satan

Postby Sounder » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:12 pm

True. Also true is the fact that many of these "archaic" ideas are both rooted in the psyche, and arose from there.


Yes, so then is it fair game to speculate as to the path these ideas might take in the shifts between observations and dogmas? So for instance, we might think of the ‘stay or go’ times as being pre-archaic while calling the archaic, the time when individual leaders successfully represented themselves as being ‘gods’. It would seem safe to say that by that time, ‘authority’ became prettily heavily invested in maintaining its ‘cash flow goldmine’.

In later archaic times the CC preserved the idea of a ‘stand in for God’ first with the Consul of Nicaea and later in the guise of Cartesian Dualism. So the root impulse was not then the problem, rather the problem was the corrupting of ideas about divine sources for experience with notions that one ‘special’ representation of experience is the definitive ‘will of God’. That is then ‘worshiping’ the static principle or Satan.

By becoming conscious of the drivers of our psyches we might affect a better design for our basic drivers or conceptual structuring system.

It's a feedback kind of thing, and it is time for us to do some better feeding back.
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Re: Satan

Postby Sounder » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:21 am

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds"
(2 Cor. 11:13-15).

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2 ... rning.html

SANTORUM'S SATAN WARNING
Tue Feb 21 2012 09:27:20 ET

"Satan has his sights on the United States of America!" Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum has declared.

Sure and the killing spree that America is trashing the world with is the work of a benevolent and just impulse.

"Satan is attacking the great institutions of America, using those great vices of pride, vanity, and sensuality as the root to attack all of the strong plants that has so deeply rooted in the American tradition."


Now THIS is how to use words to lie and manipulate. This fellow may be presidential timber after all. With two roots to boot. See those ‘bad’ emanations of the psyche attacking the strong and deeply rooted plants. Satan’s plants may well be deeply rooted but they will die of exposure and drought in a world of appropriate ideas.

The richest family in the new world was the Carroll family that donated the land for our capital. Catholics had a background influence in the states from the start. Even now, certain key posts go to SMOM members, with access to many other positions also being determined by membership in Jesuit created advice giving exclusive membership clubs.

MORE

The former senator from Pennsylvania warned in 2008 how politics and government are falling to Satan.


Who is despised by many locals because of his poor personality yet he doesn’t care because he knows the value of the trump card that he is carrying.

"This is a spiritual war. And the Father of Lies has his sights on what you would think the Father of Lies would have his sights on: a good, decent, powerful, influential country - the United States of America.

If you were Satan, who would you attack in this day and age?"


How about Iran.


"He attacks all of us and he attacks all of our institutions."


Nice inversion here, institutions are the repositories and cultivators of the fixed and static forms that create the armies of Satan.

The institution taps and collectivizes or just steals the productive output of its constituents and uses the proceeds to enforce an artificial vision of Gods will. This is clearly Satanic.


Santorum made the provocative comments to students at Ave Maria University in Florida.


MORE

The White House contender described how Satan is even taking hold of some religions.

"We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."


Yep that Satan guy is everywhere.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Satan

Postby justdrew » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:33 am

rather than "satan" the phrase "a current of evil" would probably be better, as it would allow stepping out of the christian narrative, and enable bypassing the gnostic controversy. (which I'm not saying is wrong, but it may be too complex a proposition to confront head on in political discourse) - "Evil is oft done with good intentions" is a truth most accept. I think "a current of evil" is more descriptive of the overall process too.
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Re: Satan

Postby Sounder » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:57 am

justdrew wrote...
rather than "satan" the phrase "a current of evil" would probably be better, as it would allow stepping out of the christian narrative, and enable bypassing the gnostic controversy. (which I'm not saying is wrong, but it may be too complex a proposition to confront head on in political discourse) - "Evil is oft done with good intentions" is a truth most accept. I think "a current of evil" is more descriptive of the overall process too.

I can relate to the inclination to dispense with “Christian” narrative, but because Christianity inverted their relation to the meaning content of the sign; Satan, we may be obliged to re-invert it so as to point the mind in a more appropriate direction. And at any rate, in my opinion, because the polarity is within the category rather than being between categories, Satan is more like out of synch rather than being a current of evil.

Fixed intellectual forms provide social stability and a credible proxy for truth. During earlier phases of the evolution of consciousness this would seem to be necessary and therefore a positive thing. Later however, and in the context of an evolving general consciousness, this force or factor that insists that the world must be rendered in a certain manner will likely express itself negatively in a vain attempt to maintain its power. But this may not even really be evil so much as being a pragmatic maintenance of privilege.

A current of evil might correspond better with us as it conductors. Satan may be the power plant but we are the wires that keep the circuits open and keep the evil flowing. We seldom break the circuit because we are so embarrassed about admitting our role as wires in the ‘conductance’ of evil.

That is; we let ‘Satan’ rule because we do not accept the markers of this rule as being proper evidence.

The Vietnam war was called Spellys war for a reason.
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Re: Satan

Postby justdrew » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:11 am

I meant "current" more like a current in an ocean.

"satan" is barely even in the bible, I think the sign only acts as a catch-all for "The Other" - adherents of Satanity (those Christians who seem to think about the devil more than Jesus) vary by how selective they're willing to be with Otherness as to weather it goes in the "of satan" category or not.


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Re: Satan

Postby vanlose kid » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:06 pm

JackRiddler wrote:.

...


...

The Last Liberal's Entrails

... “this great humanity will not be truly happy until the last liberalhas been strangled with the guts of the last socialist.”

...called for hanging socialists on the guts of liberals, while Diderot, with a Revolution looming, wanted “to strangle the neck of the last socialist” on “the last liberal’s entrails.” One must hand it to them: they figured out a way to put the First Estate to good use.


...



hmmm.

*
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Re: Satan

Postby Sounder » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:31 am

justdrew wrote...
I think the sign only acts as a catch-all for "The Other" - adherents of Satanity


One sign can mean several things and/or the meaning of a given sign can change if institutional factions push hard enough to maintain some corrupted agenda driven rhetoric. So yes the institutionally promoted meaning of the word ‘Satan’ is as the evil other and this is done for rallying the community to defend from some threatening outside force. But we all know that the threat is internal more than external, and yet if focus can be maintained on the external then the internal, that is mind-controlling us all through maintenance of fixed and rigid conceptual structures, will continue to get away with pimping their popish ‘this man is as good as God’ routine while the middle-east is ravaged in a manner similar to what Jehovah commanded the Jews to do in their ‘holy book’.

My effort is about trying to change the meaning content of Satan so as to give substance to a form, which in my opinion, is currently filled with false content.

Consciousness evolves.
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Re: Satan

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:35 am

vanlose kid wrote:
hmmm.

*


Take it up with the author of that statement, most often attributed to Diderot though it was echoed a few times. His version is certainly truer than yours. If you think liberals and socialists are your enemies and priests and bureaucrats are not, so be it. You should at least understand the former pair are ideological categories, often in the eye of the beholder, while the latter are actual organizational functions. I can call someone a liberal who may not be, I can't make anyone be a priest.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Satan

Postby Inkwhyring » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:09 pm

Do you mean "Jesus",and/or his 'godfather'?I can't think of a better way,really.What a tool!
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Re: Satan

Postby vanlose kid » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:14 am

JackRiddler wrote:
vanlose kid wrote:
hmmm.

*


Take it up with the author of that statement, most often attributed to Diderot though it was echoed a few times. His version is certainly truer than yours. If you think liberals and socialists are your enemies and priests and bureaucrats are not, so be it. You should at least understand the former pair are ideological categories, often in the eye of the beholder, while the latter are actual organizational functions. I can call someone a liberal who may not be, I can't make anyone be a priest.

.


if the "author of that statement" is in fact Diderot there'd be no point in me taking it up with him since he's dead and much like Hitchens, not resting in peace.

as i read the piece though it seems to me that the actual author of that quote i worked with is one ANDREW LEVINE. he's the one who is riffing on Diderot/Meslier with glee. he's the one whose words i take issue with.

as for whether it is "true" i don't know. seems nonsensical to me to say that "to be happy you must hang every bureaucrat/priest by the entrails of every noble/capitalist" is true.

or "truer", whatever.

is it a statement of fact? is it "truer" than saying e.g. ""to be happy you must hang every negro by the entrails of every abolitionist" or ""to be happy you must hang every single mother by the entrails of every feminist"?

which is more true? (assuming there are degrees of truth.)

whatever the case you missed the point. no big deal though. you buy into whatever it is you buy into.

please note: none of the above is in defense of nobles or priests.

*
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Re: Satan

Postby Simulist » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:43 pm

vanlose kid wrote:if the "author of that statement" is in fact Diderot there'd be no point in me taking it up with him since he's dead and much like Hitchens, not resting in peace.

Why would you say that? You're not seriously suggesting that there is in fact some sort of divine retribution in the hereafter, are you?
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Re: Satan

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:21 pm

Dave McGowan shows the downside of being the sharpest knife: you just can't stop stabbing.

Very little in the way of conspiratainment is actually entertaining, but he is a talented humorist, so he pulls it off.


Random Thoughts at the Dawn of the Year 2012
February 13, 2012

I thought I’d begin this rant by sharing some of my thoughts on the historical figure known as Jesus of Nazareth. I think we can all agree that, unlike some of the other subjects I have weighed in on in the past, this is one on which people do not tend to have strongly held points-of-view, so there is little chance that I will offend and alienate readers right off the bat.

So let’s jump right into it then with observation #1: When the likely outcome of an unwed pregnancy is death by stoning, people can be really creative liars.

Nothing in the least bit controversial about that … right? Let’s move on then to observation #2: It is fully understandable why the lie was told, and even why many people in that era might have believed it; what is more difficult to understand is why tens of millions of people around the world still believe it 2,000 years later.

I doubt that I’ve lost anyone yet, so let’s quickly move on to observation #3: Jesus was initially described as coming from a line of men who worked with their hands, which was later interpreted to mean that he was a carpenter. Given though that the primary building materials in the land of his birth were sand and rock, it is far more likely that Joseph and his sons were stone masons. Just saying …

Observation #4: Jesus of Nazareth’s real father was undoubtedly a Roman citizen. Some have speculated that he was the product of rape by one of the notoriously ruthless Roman storm-troopers, but his later actions suggest to this completely impartial observer that it was more likely a consensual coupling and that the father was someone of considerably more importance than a mere soldier.

Observation #5: Jesus was very likely a controlled Roman asset. Just as, nearly two thousand years later, the obviously controlled asset known as Jesse Jackson replaced the slain Martin Luther King, and the equally controlled asset known as Louis Farrakhan replaced the eliminated Malcolm X, so it was that Jesus was maneuvered into position to replace the executed John the Baptist, who had, I’m guessing, become a bit of a problem for the Roman overseers.

The message that the emergent messiah delivered to those living under the brutal hand of those Roman occupiers was, by any rational analysis, exactly the wrong one. It was a message brimming with advice about loving neighbors and turning cheeks … a message that constantly reinforced the notion that it was better to be poor and oppressed than wealthy and powerful, for the poor, you see, were going to spend all eternity in the glorious ‘Kingdom of Heaven,’ while the rich were going to burn in the fires of Hell (unless they were somehow able to steer their camels through the eye of a needle, or something like that).

It was, in other words, a belief system seemingly designed specifically to suppress any thoughts of rebellion amongst the unwashed masses. And the beauty of it was that no one would find out if the fabled Kingdom of Heaven actually existed until it was too late for them to get a refund.

I know what you’re thinking here: “But Dave, didn’t the Romans execute Jesus, and do so in a horrifically brutal and sadistic manner – you know, like in that Mel Gibson torture-porn flick?”

SNIP etc. etc.



As often the case, I enjoy this long after the point of derailment, when he makes one of his inevitable switches from logical speculation (I'm sure his observations #1 and #2 and possibly #4 have occurred to most of you, as they did to the Monty Python writers of Life of Brian) to an extended novelization of a possible scenario, treated as though proven.

Even though, of course, the likeliest scenario of all is that Jesus is a character made up decades after the time of the supposed crucifixion. And that the form Christianity had taken by the time of Constantine was, in fact, fathered by Romans as a slave religion, even if not in the literal sense McGowan suggests above.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Satan

Postby 82_28 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:46 pm

You gotta link to that, Jack?

Nevermind, found it with my very own smarts.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/2012.html
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Satan

Postby Simulist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:07 pm

It's not even altogether clear that an historical person, Jesus of Nazareth, actually lived!

Therefore any speculations that build on his alleged historical existence REALLY are "not altogether clear."
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Re: Satan

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:13 pm

Sorry, forgot. Thanks.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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