Reminder: no personal attacks

[JackRiddler]

slimmouse's post above reframes and generalizes a specific issue into a false dichotomy of "intuition" (Forteana, let's say) against "rigor" (politics on the material plane and a skeptical approach to, let's say, Forteana). This has rarely been the case on RI, where there is generally a fertile place for what slimmouse reductively calls "intuition." More importantly, it has nothing to do with the events that prompted Jeff to post this warning. We all know that the recent fight was not over "intuition." slimmouse's false framing would seem to recruit the "intuitives" against the overly "rigorous" for a fight, which isn't going to happen, but would be an incredible distraction from what actually did happen.

So what happened? Apparently, somewhere in the UK, thinly disguised Nazi propaganda was farted out by a middling-known saxophonist, apparently for the purpose of pissing off the unhappy family and stifling culture he endured as a child. The guy's not at all a Nazi, as far as I can see, but I don't know it's right to say his statements were disguised at all. He said Jews are the most special and incomparable evil known to the world and therefore got what was coming to them in the 1930s. This individual's statements shouldn't have meant anything because really, who cares? Who is this guy?

Unfortunately, a number of people, including a group on this board, chose to take up the defense of said saxophonist, in fact to drop any other concern, stop posting to other threads, and treat this one thread like a life-or-death struggle. Some of his defenders persistently ignored his Nazi (note the PR difference in the meaning of this word to slimmouse's falsely-claimed "intuitive") propaganda, while others (such as the now banned eyeno) chose to build on it.

This dismayed and increasingly angered a group of us who just can't help having a problem with the defense of Nazi propaganda. We're just trained that way, it's a terrible, irresistible reflex. The saxophonist's defenders were very stubborn in ignoring and/or misrepresenting everything we said, and they pretended that by pointing to the saxophonist's actual statements we were siding with the Israeli lobby and personally demolishing Palestine. (Or in the case of SLAD, whom I'm happy to share board space with, bizarrely claiming anyone was denying the genocide committed against the Irish.)

This kept an increasingly heated thread going for 80 pages, until the inevitable bannings, lockings and account closures. Naturally a great number of "personal attacks" appeared in the process. Everyone has their own individual choice about which was the most outrageous, unforgivable and unprovoked of these "personal attacks," and is willing to ride it until the end of time. But the name-calling was obviously a symptom of something else. To me, the persistent defense of the saxophonist's Nazi propaganda was the problem, whereas to slimmouse, it seems to be that those of us who dislike Nazi propaganda should just shut up and stop "censoring" (apparently a synonym for "responding to") the eyenos, let them have their "intuition" (unprocessed bullshit) without limits, and not be so "nasty" (employ "rigorous" logic, rhetoric and facts in the service of argument).

So Jeff, while it's fine to point to the rules, and while you are not just the boss but also genuinely the benefactor who makes this all possible for us, you might acknowledge that a lot more happened here than "personal attacks."

[seemslikeadream]

twice I politely mentioned that the thread should be moved... page 30 something and page 74.....and it continued on and on so as I had done once previously in another thread I had had enough and blurted out IRISH HOLOCAUST because I could not stand it any longer....it appears to me that a couple of people here continue to believe there are only two ethic groups on the face of the earth that hate each other and are worth talking about...I yelled Irish but it could have been any number of other holocaust...I just yelled and got called an anti-semite because of it..and told to fuck off a dozen time in one single post...there are a number of people here that could not stand that thread... I was the only one stupid enough to say something knowing the consequences


why was that thread given special treatment?


don't forget I had a thread about a volcano locked and moved after 2 pages so I know from what I speak

[crikkett]

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The bitterness, can you let it go? It's polluting everything you write. Don't let me get to the point where I wonder 'what now' when I see your name. Please. We've lost too many good writers already.

[JackRiddler]

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The bitterness, can you let it go? It's polluting everything you write. Don't let me get to the point where I wonder 'what now' when I see your name. Please. We've lost too many good writers already.

Hi! Whom are you addressing?

[Searcher08]

don't forget I had a thread about a volcano locked and moved after 2 pages so I know from what I speak

Everyone in the volcano thread ended up just.... venting.

Any resemblance between life at RI and the art of the vid below is purely intenional.
Please watch.

[Project Willow]

it appears to me that a couple of people here continue to believe there are only two ethic groups on the face of the earth that hate each other and are worth talking about

To me that's a bizarre assumption, and an offensive, generalized attack on other board members.

I am trying very hard, but I really don't understand your point of view, at all. Are you saying contentious discussions about Israel are inherently harmful to you personally in some way?

why was that thread given special treatment?

It wasn't. Why are you giving it special treatment?

I'm remembering now that you had difficulty with the misogyny thread also, and took pot shots at its most active participants and its existence periodically.

Some of the discussion in that thread was non-productive and hurtful, but a lot of it was constructive and, in my view, necessary. I enjoy arguing, sometimes forcefully, when it's thoughtful and well intended. Would you have those of us who feel this way quit arguing or just quit the board altogether?

What is it exactly that you want?

[seemslikeadream]

it appears to me that a couple of people here continue to believe there are only two ethic groups on the face of the earth that hate each other and are worth talking about

To me that's a bizarre assumption, and an offensive, generalized attack on other board members.

I am trying very hard, but I really don't understand your point of view, at all. Are you saying contentious discussions about Israel are inherently harmful to you personally in some way?

why was that thread given special treatment?

It wasn't. Why are you giving it special treatment?

I'm remembering now that you had difficulty with the misogyny thread also, and took pot shots at its most active participants and its existence periodically.

Some of the discussion in that thread was non-productive and hurtful, but a lot of it was constructive and, in my view, necessary. I enjoy arguing, sometimes forcefully, when it's thoughtful and well intended. Would you have those of us who feel this way quit arguing or just quit the board altogether?

What is it exactly that you want?

so taking out my sig line just wasn't good enough for you....I took it out just because YOU asked/pleaded with me to (for the sake of the board) .....what is it that YOU want? I've never done that for anyone...thanks for the appreciation...all i get is a slap in the face

and thanks for twisting my words to suit your needs


now i am done with you....kick me after i extend a hand....

keep you finely crafted questions to yourself I won't be answering any of them now or ever


and I am done with this thread and done with this topic I will never address it again...but I am not done at RI

[Project Willow]

Might as well attempt to settle up.

And if Willow happens to read this, I genuinely don't know what the phrase 'hoe in a row' means

Hoe it a row, meaning don't make for it a garden or till it fertile soil in which to grow. You do that when you encourage victims (outside of yourself, or your community and in public) to look within themselves for the answer to their victimization.

I have no interest in arguing about it, however. You and I already failed (agonizingly) at establishing a shared understanding of similar concepts which happen to sit at the foundation of much feminist thought.

As to the rest, if you're unclear why I yelled at you, just ask. As is usually the case, I regret the form, not the sentiment.

[Pierre d'Achoppement]

In a lot of old myths, after the allpowerful Creator has done his work, he is very tired and slowly leaves the limelight to be replaced by a family of demigods who are constantly battling and trolling each other. I offer this by way of analogy only.

[barracuda]

Release the kraken.

[Simulist]

Release the kraken.

You mean he's still caged?

[Project Willow]

now i am done with you....kick me after i extend a hand....

Woah, woah, woah, kick you?

I'm trying to understand you, sincerely trying to understand your motivations and thoughts behind all of this, that's all. The only thing I understand now is that you're upset.

Please, please, relax.

I'm gone anyway or hardly ever here, OK?

[crikkett]

I'm gone anyway or hardly ever here, OK?

the occasional strafing notwithstanding

[Project Willow]

Aw crikkett, yes, keep reminding me of my evil, evil nature, lest I forget!

Such malignancy MUST BE STAMPED OUT.

[crikkett]

/retracts claws