Guns (Yawn)

[Sounder]

I with you CW, too squeamish even for the movies where hypocritical anti-gun actors spill cinematic blood all over the screen.

Guns suck and so do lies whose object is eventually to criminalize what has been here to for protected by the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The sales push for cognitive dissonance is on, and the constitution is only some silly piece of paper anyway.

[Nordic]

I wanted a gun for self protection only once. And that was during the LA riots.

I grew up learning how to drive a tractor, use a chainsaw, a lawnmower, and finally a car.

The gun is the thing I feared the least out of those devices. The chainsaw seemed the most dangerous.

Hell, splitting wood with an axe was more scary than using a gun.

Here's what I always come back to regarding guns:

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

Also, my sister used to be a pretty high ranking manager at a big corporation, and she told me once that whenever they had to lay off or fire people, the employees who were known to be gun owners or have big gun collections were given a pass. Just basic human nature at work.

So there's that, too.

[elfismiles]

Yeah, they appeal to my apocalypse fetish for sure.

Reminds me of Avi's (HEAP) Holocaust Education and Avoidance Pod in Stephenson's CRYPTONOMICON which is part of the main characters' goal ... "a longer range objective to distribute Holocaust Education and Avoidance Pod (HEAP) media for instructing genocide-target populations on defensive warfare.

Chapter 46 - HEAP
http://www.euskalnet.net/larraorma/crypto/slide48.html

If you believe as I do that our relatively fragile civilization, food networks, medical care, electricity, clean water, police control, in short everything modern that we rely on to support ourselves, could one day in the not so distant future cease to function well enough to preclude massive civil unrest, dislocation, rioting... then guns become a fairly important survival tool. I don't want guns to storm DC. I want them to hunt and for self defense because I think it's possible that in my lifetime I'll need them for that. If I think that then the second amendment tards your referencing might also think that.

Holocaust Education and Avoidance Pod

Holocaust Education and Avoidance Pod

HEAP is an acronym for a "Holocaust Education and Avoidance Pod", a concept created by author Neal Stephenson in his book "Cryptonomicon". The HEAP is basically an instruction manual on guerrilla warfare, designed to be distributed among peoples at risk of becoming the victims of genocide or ethnic cleansing.

Background

The fictional creator of the HEAP is Avi Halaby, a Jewish-American descendant of Holocaust survivors. Avi is obsessed with studying and recording instances of genocidal acts, and ultimately, with trying to prevent such acts from occurring in the future. To this end, Avi seeks to develop and distribute HEAPs to peoples who are potential victims of these acts.

Components

*Guerrilla Warfare: The stated goal of the HEAP is to create and disseminate a manual on guerrilla warfare that would enable a population to fight back and prevent a genocidal attack by another group. Military or paramilitary training is seen by Avi as the only realistic prevention of future Holocausts.

*HEAP Gun: Although the bulk of the HEAP seems to be dedicated to guerrilla warfare tactics, it also deals with the creation of the "HEAP gun", an inexpensive, rugged assault rifle designed with durability and reliability as higher priorities than ergonomics and pin-point accuracy (see insurgency weapon). The HEAP gun is designed to be assembled covertly with common tools and materials (with the exception of a rifled barrel, which is to be cached in case the weapon needs to be constructed), like a more advanced zip gun. Two ideas seem to be touched on in regards to the HEAP gun. The first is that state of the art, precision-machined weapons are unrealistic and unnecessary when considering asymmetric warfare, historically evidenced in the Vietnam War, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the Second Iraq War where a smaller force armed with inferior weapons have resisted defeat at the hands of a technologically advanced foe [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetrical_warfare#20th_century_asymmetric_warfare] . The second is that the weapon itself might need to be constructed on the spot rather than merely acquired and stored due to the implementation of strict gun control or banning firearms on the targets of genocide prior to the attack- an idea associated with the actions of Nazi Germany, and Stalinist Russia. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_States#Security_against_tyranny_and_invasion_arguments]

*Crypt: Additionally, the concept of the HEAP in "Cryptonomicon" is married to that of "the Crypt": an ultrasecure data haven safe from government, economic, and/or geographical interference or influence. The Crypt insures that the HEAP cannot be suppressed or destroyed as long as access to the internet exists. Therefore it seems though the Crypt is technically a separate project, the HEAP's existence and dissemination is dependent on a Crypt-like network.

Historical Precedents

The idea of a resistance movement/guerrilla warfare manual has its roots in the writings of well-known resistance/revolutionary figures such as Che Guevera, Michael Collins, Mao Zedong, and many others.

The HEAP may also be somewhat inspired by the infamous "The Anarchist Cookbook" given "Cryptonomicon's" portrayal of a desperate, paranoid, power-hungry American government towards the end of the book.

HEAPs outside "Cryptonomicon"

Although a true HEAP has yet to be assembled in real life, some primitive attempts have been made, via hyperlinking to source materials, to enable a person who so desired to assemble their own HEAP [http://www.webleyweb.com/heap/index.html] . The ultimate goal of the HEAP dovetails with that of disaster-preparedness enthusiasts: preparation for, avoidance of, and ultimately surviving a worst-case-scenario. Thus, many survival sites have become electronic HEAPs of a sort, even though Holocaust prevention did not play an explicit role in their creation, and guerrilla warfare is not the means used to achieve survival.

ee also

*Bug-out bag
*FP-45 Liberator
*Insurgency weapon
*Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
*Resistance movement
*Sten
*Survivalism
*United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

External links

* [http://www.cryptonomicon.com "Cryptonomicon" official site]
* [http://newark.pardey.org/book/cryptonomicon/slide48.html HEAP chapter excerpt]
* [http://zombiehunters.org/forum/ An example of survivalism site as HEAP]
* [http://www.holocaustresearchproject.net The Holocaust Education & Archive Research Team]


Wikimedia Foundation. 2010.

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/4394355

[DrEvil]

Don't worry. These guys are here to save you! Government took your gun? No problem! Just print a new one:

http://defensedistributed.com

Home of the Wiki Weapon. A nonprofit, collaborative project to create freely available plans for 3D printable guns.

Idiot gun-nut blows his face off with 3d printed gun in 3.. 2.. 1.. Headlines!

[Nordic]

http://bigeducationape.blogspot.com/201 ... 2.html?m=1

No Teachers With Guns, No Police In Schools | K-12 News Network

On December 30, 2012, President Obama said he doubted arming school police with guns will prevent future school shootings, but then January 11, 2013′s EdWeek hints that he may yield to local law enforcement officers and communities if it has “bipartisan” support.

While President Barack Obama said recently that he would be skeptical that more guns would be an answer to school safety, his administration is considering paying to add police officers to secure public schools, in part because it may be an area of agreement among lawmakers of all stripes.
In that same EdWeek article, my own Senator, Barbara Boxer, presented such a plan to Vice President Joe Biden:

California Sen. Barbara Boxer, a Democrat, told the Washington Post she presented the plan to Vice President Joe Biden and he was “very, very interested” and may include it policy recommendations he makes to President Obama.
“If a school district wants to have a community policing presence, I think it’s very important they have it,” Boxer said in an interview Thursday. “If they want uniformed officers, they can do it. If they want plainclothed officers, they can do it.”
…

Boxer’s initiative would provide federal dollars to schools that want to hire police officers and install surveillance equipment. It wouldn’t go as far as the National Rifle Association’s proposal to provide armed guards at every public school.

In Texas, Lt. Governor David Dewhurst calls for teachers to be trained in gun use:

Dewhurst said school districts would nominate who they wanted to carry weapons on campus. The training would be more extensive than what is currently required for Texas concealed handgun license and include how to react technically and emotionally in an active shooter situation on a school campus.

President Obama, Senator Boxer (!), Lt. Governor Dewhurst — are you INSANE? Have you lost your mind?

Do I need to surgically implant a spine in your back?

SIGN THE K12NN PETITION TO DROP THIS VERY BAD IDEA NOW.

For shame, I never would’ve thought my own “liberal” Senator would cave to the gun sales pitches of the NRA masquerading as policy. We do not need guns on campus. NCLB provides for expulsion of students who bring weapons, including guns, on campus. Then why do we invite adults to bring guns on campus in the name of “safety”? Do as we say, not as we do?

The cops have already started visiting my son's grade school, unannounced, since the dark knight of sandy hook rose. They were back the other day and my wife brought him home and home schooled him for the day. Parents are being given zero say in the matter.

[justdrew]

lots of schools already have long had their own police...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_resource_officer
https://www.google.com/search?q=school+resource+officer

[Iamwhomiam]

Contemplate this: piles of bodies of 5 and 6 year olds, mutilated and bloodied by multiple wounds inflicted by hi-power bullets fired from an assault weapon. Fuck you all. You need to grieve, fuckers, to understand what your insane arguments bring. It's far past-time to limit who can own a firearm. And you should keep that image in you mind when covering the topic, or any of a half-dozen other equally gruesome mass murders. My kid was lucky; he put a bullet through my kid's head while he slept.

You want woo? Go after the ID twin who killed my kid. Live hand grenade and a pound of pot and many other weapons confiscated afterwards, yet the twin brother wasn't held as a material witness. They lost the grenade, kept the pot and returned the weapons.

Disaffected GI father, Viet Vet now living there. Police Chief now Drug Czar.

A couple of years before he killed my son and his friends using two weapons, a .40 Cal Ruger pistol and his pistol-gripped 12 Ga. shotgun, firing Double-ought buckshot, he shot up his town and was arrested. Token slap on the wrist and they gave him back his guns. Helps that momma's wealthy and influential. They were the same guns used in both incidents.

So glad he left the Machete and the AR-15 with 3 30-round clips taped together in his truck.

They should confiscate every fucking gun this country's ever manufactured, from everywhere around the world; the number of exports would far exceed the 300 million now in the hands of Americans and would probably number in the billions.

Astounding that those who cry out for a peaceful world also cry for their weapons.

This is where I am every time one of these arguments, excuse me, Mass Murders, arises.

So fuck you and your guns. Your desire to remain armed assures a warring future. And fuck your military inspired first person shooter games. Ban 'em all. Sick fucking way to get your jollies. That is, until the day it doesn't and find you need more stimulation than it offers.

Anyone who thinks there will be an ample supply of wild food for them to hunt are naive to the reality that our resources will be extremely limited and competition will be brutal.

No one anywhere needs a gun. No one.

[JackRiddler]

The October Revolution in Russia followed after the people were ground through three years of the worst war the world had ever until then seen. Soldiers who'd seen enough of the pointless carnage began to desert and soon the front dissolved as they picked up their gear, walked out of the trenches, and trudged home on foot. Many joined committees of soldiers, workers and peasants known as Soviets, to which Lenin claimed all power would devolve. Others took up with the various armies of the counter-revolution and alternative revolutionary forces, such as the Makhnovists. The Russian citizenry at large surely was never as well armed as at that point in history in the form of what structurally were citizens' militias. Of course the majority of humans in the Empire's territory were not armed and thus forced to spectate, submit, and suffer under the power of whatever force held sway in their area at any given time. Would it have been better if even more of them had arms, if by some magic the arms had been unlimited, if the women and children and octagenarians and the disabled all had guns too? The Western powers invaded and armed White factions to bring down the Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks built their new army practically on the many new front lines that emerged. The history is complicated but be assured every combatant had their story of acting righteously in armed self-defense. The outcome was, as is almost inevitable in armed conflicts, determined by the sum total of military factors with the usual portions of happenstance. Not by justice or right or the good per se. So the situation Solzhenitsyn describes a generation later came about after the resort to the uncontrolled gun had run its course. I hope this also illustrates that it matters where we choose to start our historical examples.

[Iamwhomiam]

That's the ridiculousness of the whole pro-gun argument, armed or not it's unwinable for the civilians simply because they are so very outmatched. Let's face it, if I were a General I wouldn't want to fight a guerrilla war, I'd want to crush the opposition as quickly and efficiently as possible.

And in this day and age of stretched thin resources, there would be no obstacle to doing so and with praise that they've crushed the rebellion.

Personally, I think it's nice that the PTB have let folk keep their arms for self-defense, those with fists on the ends.

[Canadian_watcher]

Without a revolution of the will we can't win against their fire power. Guns suck ass (have I already said that?) At best they are an illusion of power, at worst they are what they currently are.

The strength and the eventual victory can only come from the numbers. the numbers are really hard to get - so much more difficult than guns or bullets.

[82_28]

I agree, guns bore the fuck out of me too. I "had" to buy a new PS3 last month and it came in three different flavors. Cos I wanna keep playing Skyrim, but the ancient PS3 died. Sooo, they were trying to sell me on the Call of Command Duty Commander Death and Assassination Box Set -- whatever the fuck it is. I said, I'll take the "Assassin's Creed 3" one. Now, bear in mind that Assassin's Creed is semi interesting and has a lot of history, in fact, the whole storyline is historical in the game. I'm positively not sure what that even means. Basically what it means is that you are a time traveling assassin and the setting the American Revolutionary War.

It's decent.

But, I must say that iamwhoiam brings up beyond strong points. Here's the reason as I see it and it's that the gun was not only deadly, but the emotions it provokes, as its only use is to kill, is its most powerful attribute. The sound of one's use startles and then paralyzes. This is why, like Iamwhoiam, I should bless the deities above to somehow miraculously take them all away.

The gun, like HD TV, 3D movies, surround sound, a choir, an orchestra, a lamp in 1860, a phonograph, a MP3, an Internet connection, the ring of an old telephone, the ring of a new one, grab the human subject's attention like no other. However, there is nothing like the sound, the destruction of a gun. This is why it is used. I have no need and nor will I ever, however it strikes a chord within our psyches. Because unlike an instrument or a TOOL (as the fucknuts like to call it). Once you use it, the work of said "tool" is permanent. This, again, unlike a tool, which is used to fucking build things, create them, refurbish them and learn how to use them as a craft. Guns are a motherfucking useless man's tool. You pull the trigger. Sweet. Awesome. Good job. Something or someone is now dead just by using your index finger as you would pick your nose.

There is no point in any guns to ever exist anywhere as long as human compassion exists in the same plane of existence.

[82_28]

Police run out of gift cards at gun buyback

This is from Seattle, today.

Seattle police exchanged $80,000 in gift cards for guns Saturday in a buyback event that resembled a freewheeling outdoor gun show as private buyers offered cash deals to tempt those standing in line.

By Christine Willmsen

Seattle Times staff reporter

A military launcher was among firearms turned in Saturday for gift cards. Did it work? Police weren’t sure.

Within hours of launching the first gun-buyback program in more than two decades, Seattle police took in so many guns they had to shut down the site Saturday and turn away scores of people after running out of gift cards to hand out.

People on foot and in vehicles were corralled into a parking lot underneath Interstate 5 between Cherry and James streets, where they traded unwanted weapons for gift cards of $100 for handguns, shotguns and rifles, and $200 for assault weapons.

“We prepared the best we could, having no idea on the great turnout,” said Seattle Police Chief John Diaz.

By 11 a.m. Seattle police had collected 160 weapons, including three 12-gauge repeater shotguns, also known as “Street Sweepers,” and an old rocket-launcher tube.

The total number of weapons collected was still to be tallied, and police said they won’t have a total number until Monday.

Not all of the guns brought to the buyback were handed over to police, however.

Officers stood by as makeshift gun shows sprang up on the sidewalks, just steps away from the buyback tents, as gun enthusiasts and collectors waved wads of cash for the guns being held by those standing in line.

“I’d prefer they wouldn’t sell them,” Diaz said of the people in line making deals with the gun buyers.

Some people saw the event as a way to make some money while others came in the spirit of a gun-buyback program, he said.

Albert Coburn, of Seattle, was standing in line with two rifles from his father, weapons that he had no use for. “Instead of selling them, I’d like to see them get out of circulation.”

Some in the long lines lost patience and gave in to the people who surrounded the parking lot with signs saying “Cash for guns.”

One man jumped out of his vehicle as he was waiting in bumper-to-bumper traffic at the buyback and asked how much the gun enthusiasts and collectors were willing to pay for his three guns. He pocketed $500.

Diaz acknowledged the police were ill-prepared for the crowds and that some people were frustrated by the snarled traffic and two-hour waits. Although the next buyback hasn’t been scheduled, he said he would look for ways to be more efficient.

The gun buyback, which started at 9 a.m., was supposed to run until 3 p.m., but police began turning people away just before noon after giving out $80,000 in gift cards. Once they ran out of cards, they provided IOUs.

Dean Sabol, of Shoreline, who was turning in his grandfather’s shotgun and rifle, said the police were understaffed and slow, creating a free-for-all of buying and selling literally just a few feet away.

“It’s worse than a gun show,” Sabol said as he stood in line.

Police wandered the streets advising people to turn in their guns so the guns could be destroyed instead of selling them to gun enthusiasts and collectors. It’s legal for private individuals to buy and sell guns.

“Why not offer them cash versus a gift card?” asked Schuyler Taylor, of Seattle, who used to work at a gun retailer and had hopes of buying a gun. “I’m still taking the guns off the streets; they’re just going in my safe.”

Mayor Mike McGinn said at a news conference the private transactions are a loophole that needs to be closed. “There’s no background check, and some (guns) could be exchanged on the streets that shouldn’t be in circulation.”

On the national front, congressional leaders are contemplating legislation that would regulate the private sale of guns.

Despite guns being sold for cash, McGinn said he saw the buyback program as part of an overall solution to gun violence.

“A lot of gun deaths are due to accidents or guns stolen from houses, so it does make a difference,” he added.

Theresa Swan, of Edmonds, saw the gun buyback program as a win-win for her. After her father died more than a year ago, she discovered he had a pistol and a rifle.

“They’re old and rusty, and I didn’t know how to dispose of them,” said Swan.

Seattle police partnered with King County, local businesses, the Seattle Police Foundation and community groups to hold the buyback program.

The department will check if any of the buyback guns were stolen and, if so, try to return them to the rightful owners. Otherwise, all will be melted down.

“I’m sure there were probably a couple of sales” on the nearby streets, said Seattle police spokesman Mark Jamieson. “But I would say the vast majority of people came to this event ... because they wanted to make sure the guns were disposed of properly and receive a gift card. That was accomplished.”

In 1992, Seattle police collected more than 1,200 guns in a four-day buyback program and twice ran out of money to give to gun owners.

Seattle Times staff writer Sandi Doughton contributed to this report.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... ckxml.html

I don't know if I'd be "yawning" just yet. This underscores how many weapons are out there and how much the cops could never defend a "gun buy back" shootout, should one ever come to pass. . .

[Iamwhomiam]

Around world, gun rules, and results, vary wildly
By ERIC TALMADGE | Associated Press – 11 hrs ago

In this Friday, Jan. 18, 2013 photo, a Japanese shotgun enthusiast takes a test to renew his license on a shooting range in Ooi, at the foot of Mount Fuji.

OOI, Japan (AP) — After a tragedy like the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the statistic is always trotted out. Compared to just about anywhere else with a stable, developed government — and many countries without even that — the more than 11,000 gun-related killings each year in the United States are simply off the charts.

To be sure, there are nations that are worse. But others see fewer gun homicide deaths in one year than the 27 people killed Dec. 14 in Newtown, Connecticut.

As Americans debate gun laws, people on both sides point to the experiences of other countries to support their arguments. Here's a look at two success stories — with two very different ways of thinking about gun ownership — and one cautionary tale.

___

JAPAN — THE NANNY STATE

Gunfire rings through the hills at a shooting range at the foot of Mount Fuji. There are few other places in Japan where you'll hear it.

In this country, guns are few and far between. And so is gun violence. Guns were used in only seven murders in Japan — a nation of about 130 million — in all of 2011, the most recent year for official statistics. According to police, more people — nine — were murdered with scissors.

Though its gun ownership rates are tiny compared to the United States, Japan has more than 120,000 registered gun owners and more than 400,000 registered firearms. So why is there so little gun violence?

"We have a very different way of looking at guns in Japan than people in the United States," said Tsutomu Uchida, who runs the Kanagawa Ohi Shooting Range, an Olympic-style training center for rifle enthusiasts. "In the U.S., people believe they have a right to own a gun. In Japan, we don't have that right. So our point of departure is completely different."

Treating gun ownership as a privilege and not a right leads to some important policy differences.

First, anyone who wants to get a gun must demonstrate a valid reason why they should be allowed to do so. Under longstanding Japanese policy, there is no good reason why any civilian should have a handgun, so — aside from a few dozen accomplished competitive shooters — they are completely banned.

Virtually all handgun-related crime is attributable to gangsters, who obtain them on the black market. But such crime is extremely rare and when it does occur, police crack down hard on whatever gang is involved, so even gangsters see it as a last-ditch option.

Rifle ownership is allowed for the general public, but tightly controlled.

Applicants first must go to their local police station and declare their intent. After a lecture and a written test comes range training, then a background check. Police likely will even talk to the applicant's neighbors to see if he or she is known to have a temper, financial troubles or an unstable household. A doctor must sign a form saying the applicant has not been institutionalized and is not epileptic, depressed, schizophrenic, alcoholic or addicted to drugs.

Gun owners must tell the police where in the home the gun will be stored. It must be kept under lock and key, must be kept separate from ammunition, and preferably chained down. It's legal to transport a gun in the trunk of a car to get to one of the country's few shooting ranges, but if the driver steps away from the vehicle and gets caught, that's a violation.

Uchida said Japan's gun laws are frustrating, overly complicated and can seem capricious.

"It would be great if we had an organization like the National Rifle Association to stand up for us," he said, though he acknowledged that there is no significant movement in Japan to ease gun restrictions.

Even so, dedicated shooters like Uchida say they do not want the kind of freedoms Americans have and do not think Japan's system would work in the United States, citing the tendency for Japanese to defer to authority and place a very high premium on an ordered, low-crime society.

"We have our way of doing things, and Americans have theirs," said Yasuharu Watabe, 67, who has owned a gun for 40 years. "But there need to be regulations. Put a gun in the wrong hands, and it's a weapon."

___

SWITZERLAND — GUNS AND PEACE

Gun-rights advocates in the United States often cite Switzerland as an example of relatively liberal regulation going hand-in-hand with low gun crime.

The country's 8 million people own about 2.3 million firearms. But firearms were used in just 24 Swiss homicides in 2009, a rate of about 0.3 per 100,000 inhabitants. The U.S. rate that year was about 11 times higher.

Unlike in the United States, where guns are used in the majority of murders, in Switzerland only a quarter of murders involve firearms. The most high-profile case in recent years occurred when a disgruntled petitioner shot dead 14 people at a city council meeting in 2001.

Experts say Switzerland's low gun-crime figures are influenced by the fact that most firearms are military rifles issued to men when they join the country's conscript army . Criminologist Martin Killias at the University of Zurich notes that as Switzerland cut the size of its army in recent decades, gun violence — particularly domestic killings and suicides — dropped too.

The key issue is how many people have access to a weapon, not the total number of weapons owned in a country, Killias said. "Switzerland's criminals, for example, aren't very well armed compared with street criminals in the United States."

Critics of gun ownership in Switzerland have pointed out that the country's rate of firearms suicide is higher than anywhere else in Europe. But efforts to tighten the law further and force conscripts to give their guns back after training have failed at the ballot box — most recently in a 2012 referendum.

Gun enthusiasts — many of whom are members of Switzerland's 3,000 gun clubs — argue that limiting the right to bear arms in the home of William Tell would destroy a cherished tradition and undermine the militia army's preparedness against possible invasion.

___

BRAZIL — BEYOND REPAIR?

So how about a country that actually bans guns?

Since 2003, Brazil has come close to fitting that description. Only police, people in high-risk professions and those who can prove their lives are threatened are eligible to receive gun permits. Anyone caught carrying a weapon without a permit faces up to four years on prison.

But Brazil also tops the global list for gun murders.

According to a 2011 study by the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, 34,678 people were murdered by firearms in Brazil in 2008, compared to 34,147 in 2007. The numbers for both years represent a homicide-by-firearm rate of 18 per 100,000 inhabitants — more than five times higher than the U.S. rate.

Violence is so endemic in Brazil that few civilians would even consider trying to arm themselves for self-defense. Vast swaths of cities like Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro are slums dominated by powerful drug gangs, who are often better armed than the police. Brazilian officials admit guns flow easily over the nation's long, porous Amazon jungle border.

Still, Guaracy Mingardi, a crime and public safety expert and researcher at Brazil's top think tank, Fundacao Getulio Vargas, said the 2003 law helped make a dent in homicides by firearms in some areas.

According to the Sao Paulo State Public Safety Department, the homicide rate there was 28.29 per 100,000 in 2003 and dropped to 10.02 per 100,000 in 2011.

Brazil wants more powerful guns in the hands of police. This month, the army authorized law enforcement officers to carry heavy caliber weapons for personal use.

Ligia Rechenberg, coordinator of the Sou da Paz, or "I am for Peace," violence prevention group, thinks that could make things worse. She said police will buy weapons that "they don't know how to handle, and that puts them and the population at risk."
___

Associated Press writers Frank Jordans in Berlin and Stan Lehman and Bradley Brooks in Sao Paulo contributed to this report.

[JackRiddler]

Some of you exploratory thinkers need to examine the "Gun Appreciation Day" incidents as possible set-ups to create hysteria and force through gun control laws:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... ?mobile=nc

For The Sixth Time In One Week, Man Shot At Gun Show

By Ian Millhiser on Jan 26, 2013 at 5:17 pm


Gun activists designated last Saturday “Gun Appreciation Day” in an attempt to highlight their opposition to gun safety laws. The PR stunt proved to be more of an embarrassment, however, when 5 people were shot at 3 different gun shows on Gun Appreciation Day. On Friday afternoon, an Iowa gun dealer closed out the week by becoming the sixth person shot at a gun show. The man claims he was “showing off a .25 caliber pistol he thought was unloaded when he slid the action of the gun.” The gun was not unloaded, and a bullet went through his left palm.

After this incident, police found a second loaded weapon on the wounded gun dealer’s table.

[Sounder]

Some of you exploratory thinkers need to examine the "Gun Appreciation Day" incidents as possible set-ups to create hysteria and force through gun control laws:

I always go for ignorance as a first option. (That's why I'm right so often.) But thanks again Jack for letting me know just what you think a 'nutjob' like me would think.

Your use of code is rather clumsy Jack, not clever at all.