Vatican Satanic Paedophile Ring Investigation

[seemslikeadream]

Lots of them, yes. True. All parties except for the devil/(satan) are still people/human beings per that belief, though

yea I wasn't the one all in on the dehumanizing thing


ya got to admit that devil possessing thing is a little weird .....to each his own

[compared2what?]

ya got to admit that devil possessing thing is a little weird .....to each his own

I do. I feel that way about almost everything, though. Always have. Since grade school. (I mean, the idea that gym has any impact on anyone's physical fitness is also a little weird. If you ask me.)

But as you say. To each his own.

Cheers, SLAD.

[pianoblues]

THAT priest, I'll have to look his name up again, 'Sabbia' or something I think

Father Riccardo Seppia, a 51-year-old parish priest in the village of Sastri Ponente

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... z2Xg3EyoS6

...forgot to mention that upon incarceration, Father Seppia was also discovered to be HIV positive. Regarding his tattoo and other random associations to anything considered satanic I translate a bit of this article; http://altrimondi.gazzetta.it/2011/05/2 ... e_perduto/

"Il tatuaggio sulla chiena di don Seppia: un sole a sette raggi. Gli investigatori pensano che possa avere significati satanici. Sospette anche certe frasi blasfeme sull’ostia che rimandano a rituali e messe nere codificate in un manuale del Settecento e descritte dall’occultista Papus. [11]"

The tattoo on the back of Father Seppia; a sun with 7 rays. Investigators think it might have satanic meaning. Also suspect are certain blasphemous sentences written on the hosting table that refer to black rituals and masses coded in a 17th century manual described by the occultist Papus.

[Project Willow]

Despite which, I have a complaint about the thread title. I can't read it without trying to make it rhyme. (Vatanic. Satican.) Doesn't work.

Yeah, I keep reading it as vay-tanic. Hmmmm, Vaytanic. The Satican. The vaytanic Satican.

On the other hand, we do have a rhetorical issue here, and I don't think RA survivors should be called upon to provide a fix, but apparently there are indeed groups of people who refer to themselves as satanists but who aren't involved in the heinous activities usually associated with reports of satanism. So, how do we distinguish, rhetorically, between the two groups? I mean, c'mon now, don't any of you non-offending satanist types have a PR department?

[pianoblues]

apparently there are indeed groups of people who refer to themselves as satanists but who aren't involved in the heinous activities usually associated with reports of satanism. So, how do we distinguish, rhetorically, between the two groups? I mean, c'mon now, don't any of you non-offending satanist types have a PR department?

errr...most I could find on the subject; http://favisonlus.wordpress.com/2013/05 ... e-sco-sas/

The phenomenon of the ‘sects’ and ‘criminal satanism’

There are some subjects, more than others which, unconsciously, awaken in us that imprinting made up of fears and infantile terrors with which our parents used to prepare us, not certainly in the right way, for the darker side of life. Satanism is a limited phenomenon, which does not have, and we hope it never will have, the numbers to create a real social alarm. It must be brought to light and where it manifests itself in deviant forms, should be severely repressed, since it violates any canon on which we have founded our civilization. But it is necessary to reflect upon this subject, above all, in this particular historical phase, simply because we find ourselves in front of a distorted and pathological attitude, fruit, in nearly all cases, of a capricious and immature reaction to religious faith and sexual bigotry.

Introduction

Over the closing fifteen years of the 20th century, the social communication media had, more than once, called the attention of public opinion to the phenomenon of “Satanism”; this, often, with reference to criminal episodes attributed to groups of people generically classified as satanic sects, generating the equation: Satanism = satanic sects = criminal behaviour.
This equation, as will be seen, is not always true, in the sense that the terms, Satanism, satanic sects and criminal behaviour are not equivalent – and if the common opinion tends to consider them as synonyms – it is even less consequential.

According to the Report Religious Sects and new movements of magic in Italy, compiled by the Central Direction of the Prevention Police in 1998, “…to circumscribe the significance of the term Satanism in a clear and definite area is not easy. It is, in fact, more of a trend than a real and proper movement”(1).
Now, if on the one side we share this opinion, on the other side, we consider that Satanism is more than a trend; in fact, it can be thought of as a kind of religion which contemplates a particular vision of life and the world which is diametrically opposed to the Christian way, and its rites, for their nature, are not only against the Christian morals, but also against the common morals.
J.K. Huysmans (1848 – 1907), underlines that Satanism “consists in a sacrilegious practice, in a moral rebellion, in a spiritual orgy and in an aberration which is, in no way ideal or Christian; It lives in pleasure, tempered with fear, (…) and in the forbidden joy of transferring to Satan the homage and prayers which are due to God; it consists in the non-observance of the Catholic precepts which are followed in the opposite way, committing, in order to offend Christ more gravely, the sins which he had expressly condemned: the contamination of the religious cult and carnal orgy”(2).

Classifications and types

Massimo Introvigne, the well-known expert on sects, distinguishes four Satanist currents, to each of which are accorded the various groups, even if, in practice, the distinction is never so sharp and often, the rites and motivations are mixed and overlapping.
- Occultist Satanism. Accepts the vision of the world described in the Bible, the story of the creation, the expulsion from Heaven of the rebellious angels, which became demons, aligning themselves, however, “on the other side” in the service of the devil.
- Rationalist Satanism. This sect conceives Satan as the Evil Spirit or the symbol of Evil and has an anti-Christian, hedonistic and immoral vision of the world.
- Acid Satanism. The cult of the devil is simply an excuse for excesses and depravation, the rites are based on the use of narcotics, orgies and psychological and sexual abuse.
- Luciferism. It is the Satanism of Manichean or Gnostic derivation. Lucifer and Satan are objects of veneration within cosmogonies which make them a “good” or, at least, a necessary aspect of the sacred.
The above mentioned Report of the Central Direction of the Prevention Police refers that in our Country “all these components seem to be present with a prevalence of the first and the third components”(3).
The American scholar, Marcello Truzzi subdivides Satanists into two large categories: the Satanists “Independent or solitary” and those “Affiliated to groups”(4).
- “Independenti” or “solitary” satanists. As the very expression indicates, the independent or solitary Satanists are isolated individuals who abide by and live through their satanic cultural experience, be it true or presumed, on their own. They subdivide into traditional Satanists, Acid Satanists and psychotic Satanists.
°“Traditional” Satanists. The so-called occult operators and, in particular, the black magic practitioners, belong to this category. They are mostly clever charlatans and cheats, who speculate on the credulity of the common people, and those who think they can solve their problems through magic. At times, they perpetrate real crimes to the damage of their incautious clients.
°“Acid” Satanists. According to some scholars’ opinions, there seems to “a tie between the hallucinatory experience of the drug culture and the re-awakening of interest for the devil”(5). “Acid” Satanists are nothing more than drug addicts with some knowledge of “occultism”; they, in their trips, are convinced to invoke and meet the Devil(6).
°“Psychotic” Satanists. It is more or less a matter of individuals with psychiatric disturbances who interest themselves in Satanism and occultism.
- “Affiliated to groups” Satanists. Truzzi subdivides the Satanists “affiliated to groups” into two categories: “pure or stereotype” Satanists and “non- stereotype” Satanists.
° “Pure or stereotypes” Satanists. Those who worship an entity whose characteristics derive integrally from the Satan of the Bible.
They subdivide into four groups:
* “traditional” satanists. Those who adhere to the model described in the trials of the Medieval Inquisition. It is doubtful that these models ever existed.
* “acid” satanists”. Those connected to the drug culture, no longer isolated, but united in groups where the drug cocktail and Satanism can generate really dangerous behaviour.
* “sexual” satanists”. These are divided into two sub-categories: sadomasochists and orgiastic-sex. They have given themselves up to ritualistic sexual activities both heterosexual and homosexual, within the framework of satanic liturgies where elements inspired from the ceremonial magic of A. Crowley are often present(7).
* “anti-christian” satanists. Their main objective is the profanation of Christian rituals and, in particular, the Catholic Mass and the sacrament of the Eucharistic.
° “Non-stereotype” satanists. Those who worship the personage of Satan, but re-elaborate the biblical theology which regards him.
They are sub-divided into three groups:
* “baphomettist” satanists. Their name derives from the name of the idol Baphomet, the worship with which the Temple Knights were already reproached. Their liturgy is Manichean(8) ; they appeal to Satan as “Lord of the Earth”, together or in opposition with God as “Lord of the Heavens”.
* “charismatic” satanists. They depend on the “revelations” or on the re-elaboration of the sacred story of their leader, (a typical example is the group of “Our Lady of Endor” led in Toledo, Ohio, by Herbert Arthur Sloane and practically finished after his death in the 80’s.) For the mythology of this second Satanist group, the God of the Bible is identified with a bad demiurge who has damaged the world, and Satan identified with the Gnostic guide, who is necessary to us, to escape from the corrupt world.
* “rationalist” satanists. In reality, they do not believe in the supernatural world, at all, but celebrate the worship of the devil and the satanic rites as therapeutic psychodrama where people liberate themselves, denying strongly the Christian ‘superstitions’.
Obviously, these subdivisions do not necessarily represent exact differences because in reality, these are often confused and mixed up.

Satanism and criminal behaviour

Regardless of what is reported in daily newspapers and picture magazine articles, it is rare, at least in Italy, to obtain reliable information about groups which are dedicated to cult practices, devoted directly and explicitly to the devil and demons; also the bibliography in this area is extremely scarce.
Moreover, according to the opinion of some scholars, if one excludes the so-called churches of Turin and the Lucifer churches (in which the vision of the Prince of Darkness is substantially positive), the forms of pure Satanism are very rare(9).
In this regard, the report of the Central Direction of the Prevention Police, reads as follows: “Given the natural tendency of the Satanist groups to operate secretly, the estimated figures are increasingly uncertain, even more so, since the relative information is often obtained indirectly (by self-styled exiles from these cults or from journalistic sources) and as such, impossible to verify, but one can categorically disregard the abnormal figures (e.g. hundreds of sects with thousands of followers), sometimes divulged by the information media or by would-be experts. It is, obviously, also pure fantasy, the statement that these heterogeneous secret meetings are connected to a central organization, some sort of “Satanic International”, lead by a Black Anti-pope.
However, it cannot be denied that, here and there, there have been and continue to be, in the countryside (in the open, in caves, in desecrated chapels) or in urban peripheral areas (ruined buildings, abandoned structures and premises) traces that prove the celebration, strictly nocturnal, of Satanic ceremonies.”(10)
Furthermore, besides the fact that it is difficult to establish, precisely, what is intended by the expression pure Satanism, it must be remembered that for more than a decade, there has been a remarkable diffusion of information, both from the lay(11) and religious press(12), about the diffusion of demoniac cults in Italy, often in reference, as previously mentioned, to criminal episodes.
Now, the fact that Satanism could be considered as a sort of religion, characterized by a particular conception of life and the world, radically opposed to the Christian conception of life, and that, for their nature, its rites are deviant with respect to the Christian morality, does not mean that the profession of Satanism and the practice of its rites, necessarily implies the committing of a crime. However, it is true that it should be established, case by case, whether or not, the practice of certain satanic rites really does constitute infringements indictible by the Law.
In other words, if a person declares to be a Satanist or even founds an association devoted to the cult of Satan, he cannot be legally prosecuted unless there is an infringement of the law (13).
Now, it could be objected that, among the members of these sects, there is a certain promiscuity regarding sexual practices; however, as long as these events take place in private and do not involve minors, incapacitated or non-consenting persons, it is evident that this comes within the private life of the people concerned.
However, it is also true that, in some specific cases, one can speak of criminal Satanism, i.e. of that particular criminal behaviour which is, directly or indirectly, in relation to the ideology and the practice of Satanism.
In the following, therefore, that deviant and criminal behaviour engaged in by Satanists, both individually and as a group, will be analyzed.
According to the above mentioned analysis of Truzzi, as will be remembered, traditional Satanists are defined as occult operators and, in particular, black magic practitioners. It is mostly a matter of charlatans and clever swindlers who speculate on people’s credulity.
It is not infrequent that they commit crimes such as sacrilege and concealment of corpses, carnal violence and violent acts of lust, abduction of minors for lustful ends, abrogated and substituted by the law 66/1996, Art 609 bis and following, the kidnapping of persons, sexual violence, private violence, extortion, fraud, induction, and aiding and abetting, and exploitation of prostitution.
To these crimes can be added, the abusive practice of the medical profession and the circumvention of the incapacitated.
In the above mentioned cases, it is certainly difficult to exercise repression; these episodes, in fact, for fear of retaliation and shame, on the part of the victims, often go unreported.
We believe, therefore, not unreasonably, in the monitoring of all the occult operators, several of them already known to the Criminal Investigations Department and the Magistracy, with an end to single out and prevent criminal behaviour.
The question tied to other types of Satanists is far more complex. These, usually in groups, can commit other type of crimes, for instance, the violation and sacrilege of tombs and corpses, the destruction, suppression or theft of corpses, instigation to suicide, sexual acts with minors and group violence. Sacrilegious thefts of sacred objects, vestments and consecrated hosts are also attributed to these people. It is, in our opinion, even more difficult to speak of prevention in such cases.
In fact, it is well-known that in our national territory, no real and proven satanic groups, perpetrators of similar crimes, or at least, potential perpetrators, have been identified; also legal proceedings against various santanic groups, for example, “The Luciferan Satan children” ended with the acquittal of all the defendants.
In any event, even the single cases(14), do not provide sufficient proof to speak in terms of a “social phenomenon” and cannot warrant the intervention of the Criminal Investigations Department.
The aforementioned is confirmed by the legal case involving the group, “The Beasts of Satan”, suspected authors of multiple homicide and instigation to suicide.
The “Beasts of Satan” come under the classification of the “acid Satanists” and constitute an exception in the Italian criminal panorama; it is, so far, a unique case of a group which kills in a socio-cultural context which is referable, but only in certain aspects, to the figure of the Devil(15). Moreover, the homicide modality used by the group, is not in line with the ritual which characterizes the true satanic sacrifices(16).
At the same time, we cannot under-estimate the suicide cases of young people who, in life, seemed to have some, more or less, presumed connection with a Satanist congregation. Let us see some examples.
On the 29th of December 1995, the national press carried the news of an engaged couple, whose bodies were found on a cliff in Crete, the 23rd of December: they were Deborah Portoghese, 23 years old, from Montecchio Maggiore and Giovanni Baù (also known as Wizard Bauer), 43 years old, from Arsiero. The two smashed bodies were found embraced and tied with a rope(17).
According to mass media, although not discarding other hypotheses, including a possible camouflaged homicide(18), investigators are oriented towards the hypothesis of a ritual suicide of a mystic and esoteric background(19).
There are elements which support this theory; the victims had a certain passion for magic and esoteric rites; at the place of the tragedy, certain signs and objects were found which, according to expert opinion, would suggest a satanic ritual(20).
Towards the middle of 1996, at Cisterna in Latina, a 17 year-old boy, Christian Pietrosanti committed suicide; he seemed to have been in touch with some demoniac sect(21).
The Power of Attorney of the Republic, at the Court of Syracuse, opened proceedings against “unknown persons” to ascertain the causes of the suicide of Paolo Pannuzzo, on the 5th of July 1997: The young boy appeared to be affiliated with a local Satanic sect.
On the 14th of March 2000, the known Television show “Who has seen him?” reproposed the case of Fabio Rapalli, 31 years old, who disappeared from his home in Montù Beccaria (Pavia) the 19th of May 1996, and was found dead, the 7th September, of the same year.
Rapalli’s mummified body, with the head detached, lay in a ravine near Pontremoli (Massa Carrara), half way between Genoa and Parma; the presence of a rope and a noose lead to a theory of suspected suicide. In 1998, a few hundred metres from where Rapalli’s body was found, the body of Roberto Rossi, the same age as Rapalli, was also found.
The death of the latter was caused by the ingestion of caustic soda. The investigations, according to the newspapers, seem to be oriented towards the world of satanic sects.
Now, with regard to the solitary Satanists, their criminal behaviour is often bound to a type of musical culture and fashion.
Let us consider the adventures of the 30 year-old Davide Zanotti of Arcola (La Spezia) arrested in August 1996, after a long series of investigations, on the charges of violation of tombs, profanation and theft of corpses, devastation and looting.

The young man, the newspapers report, lived in a room with “black painted walls, the blinds were nailed to prevent the slightest ray of light from entering; there was great disorder everywhere and a terrible stench. It seemed more like a den than a room: at the end of this ‘cavern’ could be seen a great black and violet altar with three large crosses made from human bones and placed upside down.
On the black veil of the altar, among demoniac books and satanic symbols, lay thirteen blood-covered skulls and hundreds of human bones. At the sides of this grim altar, there were the “trophies” gathered from the profaned cemeteries: photographs of dead children, small lights, dried wreaths and funereal objects.
In a corner there was even a statue of the Madonna, with the head and hands cut off; it was covered with blood and the eyes and body were pierced with long rusty nails (…) In a box on the altar, there were 42 sacred hosts, stolen from the church of the cemetery of the Boschetti, which had been profaned a few months earlier”(22).
Zanotti explained that his behaviour had, undoubtedly, been influenced by a certain type of music: the black metal. He was a great fan of groups like Venom, Deicide, Mortuary, Necromass, etc., which make explicit reference to Satanism and its practices.
It was ‘thanks’ to his passion for this music that he contacted the “Church of Satan” of Anton La Vey and the sect of “The Children of Satan”.
Moreover, he kept an assiduous correspondence with many other people, mainly young, who shared his same tastes and, perhaps, emulated his same deeds(23). On Friday the 6th of December 1996, after four months of home-arrest, Davide Zanotti was freed.
Similar to what has been observed for the traditional Satanists, also for the other classifications of Satanism, one can delineate forms of criminal behaviour which are scarcely foreseeable by the Criminal Investigations Department, therefore, we hold that an activity of monitoring of all these groups is reasonable, which, for their own nature, tend to shoot up and proliferate in a general climate of conspiracy, fear and sometimes blackmail.
It must not be forgotten, in fact, that every group has its own precise set of rules, tending to manipulate members in order to ensure their obedience, and that the effect of such manipulation can be dangerous for both the individual and for the society as a whole(24).
We believe it opportune to underline another eventuality, which can not be under-estimated and that is the simulation of satanic rites in order to discredit the investigative capabilities of the Law Enforcement agencies, as well as to destabilize public opinion thanks to the rebound effect produced by the mass media(25).
Such operations recall the incident of the 2nd of November 1984, when posters (those usually used for death announcements) appeared on Verona walls, on which were printed in blood red ink; ROSEMARY’S BABY IS BORN(26-27).
Authors of the macabre poster were, most likely, young people who belonged to a group called “Babalon Studies Researches” which follow the theories of the “Temple Of Psychik Youth” of London(28).
The young people affirmed that they were not Satanists and to have done this in order to “break the scheme and the stereotypes and to provoke the favouring of an interior research of the individual”(29).

The satanic scene

The scene of satanic crimes is as varied as the imagination and originality of the officiating members.
The following is an excerpt of an index elaborated for the American police by Dale Griffis, noted observer of Satanist facts.

“Clues which are found on the scene of cases in which black occultism has been practiced:

- Signs of desecration of Christian symbols (reversed crosses, vandalized sacred Christian objects).

- Signs of ritual use of stolen sacred Christian objects, treated with blasphemy.

- Use of candles (especially coloured).

- Satanic drawings and engravings on floors and walls.

- Writings in unknown alphabets.

- Animal mutilations, including removal of body parts like heart, tongue and ears.

- Signs of use of parts of animals (plumage, hair, bones) to form signs on the ground.

- Absence of blood on the ground where a killed animal is found or on the body of the sacrificed animal.

- Altar with typical objects of the satanic cult (coloured candles, chalices, knives).

- Voodoo dolls, mutilated or pierced with needles.

- Cups or tankards filled with powders or coloured liquids.

- Human skulls with or without fixed candles.

- Occultists’ ceremonial robes, especially intense black, white or scarlet.

- Rooms decorated in red or black.

- Books on Satanism, magic rituals, etc.

In cases of homicide investigations, the following clues can be significant::

- Collocation and position of corpse.

- Missing body parts.

- Positions of wounds or cuts on the corpse.

- Burns or burn scars.

- Drops of wax on the victim or on the ground.

- Oil, incense or perfumes found on the body.

- Animal or human residuals found on the victim.

- Blood (stains, quantity, etc.)

- Contents of victim’s stomach (absorbed substances).

The objects which should be confiscated are the following:

- Games of the imagination, Occult books, crystal spheres.
- Cinders or ashes of burnt objects.
- Garments and ornaments.
- Drums, gongs, bells.
- Wooden altars. Sacrificial places.
- Altars, cups.
- Phallic images.
- Clubs, swords, knives.
- Scarlet coloured velvet cushions.
- Bull whips, cat o’ nine tails. Instruments for tying.
- Mirrors.
- Animal masks (usually of papier-maché).
- Satin or black velvet gloves for the right hand.
- Rings with rubies or red stones to be worn on the thumb of the right hand.
- Devices to prepare and burn incenses and perfumes. Body paints.
- Metal rings that can hold four candles.
- Palms and ferns.
- Human or animal bones, flesh, blood, particularly skulls and long bones or finger bones.
- Coffins.
- Books of rituals, black books, including the book of shadows
- Medals with satanic symbols or other occult jewellery.
- Small animals in a cage. Empty cages.
- Devices for games of the imagination.
- Halloween type masks, horror type; robes of same type.
- Crystals in various forms.
- Mythological figures of metal or pewter.
- Posters of mythological beings, animals. Satyrs, nightmare or sadomasochist nature paintings, posters of the satanic HMR.
- Martial arts objects (e.g. Nina).

It also suggests how to proceed in carrying out investigations on the scene of ritual crime:

EXTERNAL SCENE

The external perimeter is, sometimes, marked by coloured strings, white, red and black.

Signs can be found on trees, on walls, etc. take off colour.

Take off possible body dye, smoke bombs, blank bombs.

Look for a nine foot diameter circle (three metres) inside of which could be a pentagram or a second circle, more or less eight foot diameter (2 and a half metres) (dimensions will be reduced if space is lacking). The observation point can be the point or the more important side to the south of the same, since the pentagram has the most important point or side to south. The altar is usually in the western point of the circle. If there is a ring that bears traces of fire, it would be opportune to dig for a metre underneath, as there could be something buried under the circle.

Look around for a path that leads from the circle to a source of water.

Find possible stakes used to tie the victim to the ground with the head turned towards the water, face-down with arms spread. Look for animal cages and gallows from where animals can be hung.

Pay attention not to enter the consecrated ritual perimeter before being sure there are no traps.

INTERNAL ZONE

Once in the interior of the zone (besides carrying out the same investigations as for the outside) check for refrigerators with containers which contain or could have contained blood. Look for the presence of hypodermic needles, human or animal body parts. Any extravagant or bizarre detail can be an indication of Satanism when they correspond to the satanic ideology”(30).

Interpretive hypotheses

We can now consider some possible interpretations concerning the motivations for the satanic crime. Let us take, as an example, the not infrequent case of violation and profanation of tombs and corpses.

The reasons which lead one or more individuals to profane a sepulchre or a corpse are many and various: a simple act of vandalism, an attempt of theft, the celebration of a necromantic, satanic or black magic rites.

In the first case, the destruction is carried out irrationally, without logic or motivation.In general, the targets are easily frangible objects, such as crosses, marble slabs, statues, and even if not frequently, coffins are broken open and the remains spread about. The impulsivity, the lack of logic and the violence characterize the shor-circuit action which is typical of vandals(31).

Vandal raids are often conducted under the effects of substances with psychotropic action, in particular, alcohol(32); furthermore, such behaviour could be reinforced by particular forms of conditioning, such as musical, as in the already mentioned case of Davide Zanotte, who describes one of his incursions in this way:

“It was the Portovenere cemetery. We went in, me and my friend, almost as a game. I didn’t know what I wanted, we didn’t have any particular plan. I felt excited.., strong…, out of my head. It was a fantastic sensation, as if you were under the effect of some drug: we destroyed a whole lot of tombs in the kids’ area and took away a lot of stuff”(33).
However, sometimes it can happen that groups of vandals disguise their raids behind a screen of Satanism. An example of such simulation recently stirred-up great public indignation(34) .
Investigators managed to identify the vandals responsible, who, themselves, admitted that their action had nothing, whatsoever, to do with Satanism(35). Other times it may be that the cemetery raids are carried out by groups of youths who share some sort of culture connected to death and to everything that surrounds it; a sort of necrophilia mixed up with crude forms of Satanism(36).In the second case, the theft attempts can be carried out with an end to steal valuable objects, possibly left with the corpse, like gold teethes, ring, chains, watches, etc(37).

In this case, to reach the corpse is obviously necessary to violate the tomb and intervene on the corpse to find the material to steal. As a consequence, the corpse will be mutilated in particular parts, such as the head, the jaws and the fingers.

It is not unlikely that these kinds of actions are disguised as acts of pure vandalism, in order to mislead the investigators. In all events, the signs left by the use of instruments will always remain as indicative clues.

The third case is certainly more interesting. That is, the celebration of a necromantic, satanic or black magic ritual.

Necromancy (from the Greek nekrIV = dead, and manteAa = art of divining) is a sort of divinatory praxis through which, attempts to make the dead appear and talk are practiced. The objective is to know future events or, in any case, to know something which – in some fashion – is beyond the capacity of human reasoning.

According to some scholars, necromancy is also called negromancy. Now, the word ‘negromancy’, deriving from the word ‘necromancer’, meaning magician or one who has the gift of prophecy, (through contact with the dead) is a popular corruption of the word ‘necromancy’ in which the idea of ‘negro’, ‘nero’ (black) and ‘nekrIV (death) has replaced ‘necro’, for easier analogy of sound and word significance, thus alluding to the night time when necromancy is practiced and to the infernal events which were thought to favour it: hence, also the term black magic(38).

A variant of necromancy is nechiomancy (from the Greek nikuia = ritual for the evocation of the dead, and manteAa = art of divining), which does not attempt to evoke the soul of the dead, but bases divining skills on the observation of the corpse, in particular, on the putrefaction, the bones and the tendons(39).

The term nechiomancy usually indicates also the divinatory praxis made through the objects which have had a strict relation or contact with a corpse. For example, the rope of the hanged(40).

“In the Middle-Ages, the necromancers, profaning tombs, prepared magic potions and ointments with the fat an blood of the corpses, mixing them with aconite, belladonna, poisonous mushrooms, powder of dried toads and ashes of consecrated hosts; then they rubbed their temples, hands and breast with the infernal ointment, traced the diabolical pentacle and evoked the dead in abandoned cemeteries.

The procedures of Black Magic have the objective of deranging the reason and to provoke all the feverish exaltations which give the courage of great crimes. The magic books which, in the past, were sought and destroyed by the authorities, were not innocuous books.

In almost all black magic procedures, sacrilege, murder and theft are understood to be necessary for any successful undertaking. Thus, in the “Great Magic Book” and in the “Red Dragon”, a modern imitation of the first, one can read a recipe entitled: “Death composition or philosophical stone”. It is a sort of consommé of nitric acid, copper, arsenic and verdigris.

There are also necromancy procedures which consist in: – “search the earth of the tombs with the nails, pick up the bones which will be kept on the breast. In this way participate in a Christmas midnight mass and, at the moment of the Elevation of the Host, get up and rush away, crying, “the dead are rising from their graves!” Then return to the cemetery, take a fist full of earth from near the coffin and rush back to the doors of the church…lay down the bones in the form of a cross, crying again, “the dead are rising from their graves!” (….) leave slowly and count four thousand, five hundred steps, without turning back or deviating.

At the end of the 4500 steps, after having strewn the earth which you have in your hand in a cross formation, lie down on the ground in the attitude of lying in a coffin, repeating in a mournful voice, “the dead are rising from their graves!” and call three times the one you wish to see”(41).

From what has been said so far, it cannot be excluded that in some cases, tomb profanations are done for divinatory purposes.

The profanation of tombs can also be done for the purpose of ‘casting a death spell’ on someone, through the putrefaction method.

”With this method one employs the properties of deteriorating organic substances.

In general, animal parts are used, put together with personal ‘tokens’ of the victim, so that, as the putrefaction advances, the spell is strengthened.

The most simple system is the use of a slice of flesh or an animal skin which enclose the personal tokens of the victim: for example, hair, nails, the victim’s photograph or, in the worst case, only the name and personal data of the victim.

The “token of identity” can also be an object owned by the victim, such as a handkerchief, a broach, a hair clip. At other times, the tokens are wrapped in vegetable remains, such as a fruit skin. A rather macabre method is to place the victim’s token (a picture or some personal belongings) in the coffin of a dead person.Thus, the spell is slowly reinforced with the decomposition of the corpse.When it is not possible to place the “token” directly in a coffin, then it can be buried in a cemetery, choosing a tomb of someone recently buried and who, possibly, has the same Christian name as the victim(42).Another method of casting a bad spell is by throwing the victim’s token, usually some piece of clothing, into a fire.Also, in the same procedure, dark coloured, virgin wax candles are used; even more effective if they are hand-made by the ill-disposed operator. Small cemetery lamps are much employed, better still, if taken directly from a tomb or made-up from the remains of others(43). ”This fact could possibly explain the frequent theft of votive lamps from the tombs.Still on the subject of black magic, it is opportune to remember that bones, hair or other human parts are used in the making of love potions(44).In addition, it can happen to find near a tomb or coffin, black candle ends, burnt roosters’ heads and feathers. Occult operators believe these are necessary elements to make death spells(45).

Lastly, it is always advisable to check the terrain surrounding a tomb. According to the rules of witchcraft, it is here that the fetishes for casting evil spells, must be buried(46).

Conclusion

The phenomenon of Satanism and criminal Satanism, in particular, is complex and in many aspects, still unknown, at least in Italy.

The Monitoring of this phenomenon cannot be carried out, in fact, by the Department of Criminal Investigations or the Magistracy for a series of understandable reasons.

In our modest opinion, we reasonably believe that the instrument of information research can and must perform this function, with the objective of preventing, not only repressing, all those crimes connected with the culture, philosophy and the practice of the cult of Satanism.

[Joao]

how do we distinguish, rhetorically, between the two groups?

Theistic Satanism (also known as traditional Satanism, spiritual Satanism or Devil Worship) is a form of Satanism with the primary belief that Satan is an actual deity or force to revere or worship.

Atheistic / LaVeyan Satanism is a philosophy (not considered a religion by many of its followers) founded in 1966 by Anton Szandor LaVey. Its teachings are based on individualism, epicureanism, and "eye for an eye" morality. Unlike theistic Satanists, LaVeyan Satanists are atheists who regard Satan as a symbol of man's inherent nature.

Imperfect, but seemingly functional and simple enough. Clearly "atheistic satanists" wouldn't be interested in "consecrated hosts for satanic rites" as mentioned in the OP.

[compared2what?]

Despite which, I have a complaint about the thread title. I can't read it without trying to make it rhyme. (Vatanic. Satican.) Doesn't work.

Yeah, I keep reading it as vay-tanic. Hmmmm, Vaytanic. The Satican. The vaytanic Satican.

Thanks. I was worried it was just me. Mildly. But still.

[8bitagent]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23138680

Vatican bank director and deputy resign amid scandal
Headquarters of Vatican Bank (file pic) The Vatican bank has been plagued by financial scandals for decades
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

The director and deputy director of the Vatican bank have resigned following the arrest of a senior Italian cleric over corruption and fraud allegations.

All the focus by the Vatican on "exorcisms"...the Vatican always had an Eyes Wide Shut occult vibe to me. And I never even bought into all the Icke/Godlike/Red Ice/Rense
tales of Illuminati or "Black Jesuit elite" nonsense

[seemslikeadream]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23138680

Vatican bank director and deputy resign amid scandal
Headquarters of Vatican Bank (file pic) The Vatican bank has been plagued by financial scandals for decades
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

The director and deputy director of the Vatican bank have resigned following the arrest of a senior Italian cleric over corruption and fraud allegations.

All the focus by the Vatican on "exorcisms"...the Vatican always had an Eyes Wide Shut occult vibe to me. And I never even bought into all the Icke/Godlike/Red Ice/Rense
tales of Illuminati or "Black Jesuit elite" nonsense

here's the deal for me....I know the Catholic Church.......I lived the Catholic Church...the Catholic Church and my family go back 250 years that I can trace....

That's why I can't figure why it is such a stretch when the Catholic Church believes in possession by Satan and so many people are ok with that ...that the idea others might believe in another kind of possession would be so outrageous....Why does the church get sole possession theory?

Why is this stuff not sound bizarre and other stuff is considered just crazy talk?

Demonic Possession and Exorcism
FR. WILLIAM SAUNDERS
I was watching the movie "The Exorcist" with some of my friends. Can the devil really possess someone?


The devil and his demons can indeed possess an individual. The New Testament presents several stories of diabolical possession and our Lord's exorcism of the demons. For instance, Jesus exorcized the demons (who identify themselves as "legion") of Gerasa. The possessed man was so strong he was able to pull apart the chains that bound him and smash them. In the end, the demons entered the swine and destroyed them. (Cf. Mk 5:1-20). In each of the exorcism stories, we see the power of Christ triumphantly vanquishing the devil and his demons.
Christ also empowered the Apostles to cast out demons in His name: "Then He summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority to expel unclean spirits and to cure sickness and disease of every kind" (Mt 10:1). The practice of exorcism is recorded in the writings of the early Church Fathers, including St. Justin Martyr (d. 165), Tertullian (d. 230), and St. Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 386). Over the course of the centuries, the Church has well documented cases of possession and exorcism, including the one to which the reader refers.

Given this brief Biblical and historical foundation, we can better examine the issue. Father Jordan Aumann, O.P., a noted Professor of Spiritual Theology, offers the following definition: "Diabolical possession is a phenomenon in which the devil invades the body of a living person and moves the faculties and organs as if he were manipulating a body of his own. The devil truly resides within the body of the unfortunate victim, and he operates in it and treats it as his own property. Those who suffer this despotic invasion are said to be possessed" (Spiritual Theology, p. 408). However, the soul cannot be entered or overcome and thus remains free; in a sense, the soul — really the person — is like in a state of suspended animation. Pope Benedict XIV in his teaching De servorum Dei beatificatione, et beatorum canonizatione stated, "Demons, in the individuals whom they possess, are like motors within the bodies which they move, but in such a way that they impress no quality on the body nor do they give it any new mode of existence nor, strictly speaking, do they constitute, together with the possessed person, a single being."

In determining whether a person is possessed by the devil or his demons, the Church would first make sure he underwent thorough physical and psychiatric examinations. Eliminating these natural causes, Church officials would seek other signs: unexplainable physical phenomena, such as levitation or the uncaused movement of objects; displaying strength that surpasses one's condition; the knowledge and usage of archaic languages which the person would have no way of previously knowing, such as speaking Aramaic; and the secret knowledge of a person's life, particularly the exorcist, which no other person would know. Another sign is the vehement aversion to God, the Blessed Mother, the saints, the cross, and sacred images, demonstrated by blasphemous remarks or sacrilegious actions. The devil also reveals his presence by acts of anger and violence, and through blasphemous, sacrilegious, profane, and obscene remarks. The Bishop would authorize an exorcism only after serious examination and a careful weighing of all of the evidence.

The Roman Ritual prescribes a Rite of Exorcism, a series of prayers, blessings, and invocations in the exorcizing of the devil. (The Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments released a revised ritual on January 26, 2000 with the approval of Pope John Paul II.) The holy arsenal of weapons used in an exorcism include sacramental confession, the reception of Holy Communion, fasting and prayer (particularly saying the Rosary), the use of sacramentals (like blessings with holy water, the presence of a crucifix or other religious images), blessings with the relics of saints, and the invocation of the names of Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and St. Michael. The ritual is repeated until the devil is cast out of the person, at which time the exorcist petitions God to never permit the devil to possess the person again.

During the course of the diabolical possession and even the exorcism, the person has not only periods of crisis when the struggle with evil is most apparent, but also periods of calm when one thinks the possession has ended. Interestingly, after the exorcism, the person does not remember what transpired while being possessed.

Why would God allow the devil to possess someone? We must remember that we all contend with the temptations of the Prince of this World. After all, we are the weak victims of Original Sin and need God's grace to do what is holy and good. When the new ritual for exorcism was released, Cardinal Medina, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, stated very poignantly, A...I would like to stress that the evil influence of the devil and his followers is usually exercised through deceit and confusion. Just as Jesus is the Truth, so the devil is the liar par excellence. He deceives human beings by making them believe that happiness is found in money, power, or carnal desire. He deceives them into thinking that they do not need God, that grace and salvation are unnecessary. He even deceives them by diminishing the sense of sin or even suppressing it altogether, replacing God's law as the criterion of morality with the habits or conventions of the majority." Consequently, spiritual writers think that a person has some initial openness to such a possession, through, for example, living a mortally sinful lifestyle, the habitual practice of evil, the desire to explore the occult, and the fascination with forms of spiritism, magic, and sorcery.

Why would the devil want to possess a person? In the book The Exorcist, the older priest, Father Merrin speaks with the young Father Karras, who asked him, "Why this girl? It makes not sense." Father Merrin, an experienced exorcist, replied, "I think the point is to make us despair — to see ourselves as animal and ugly, to reject the possibility that God could love us." Although this text is fictional, the underlying message is valid. Whether through the horror of sin or possession, the devil wants to shatter our belief that God loves us beyond our imagining and will even forgive any sin if we are truly sorry. Therefore, we have great hope, for our Lord is "the way, the truth, and the life" (Jn 14:6) who has "overcome the world" (Jn 16:33).

Concerning both the book and the movie versions, The Exorcist was based on a true account of diabolical possession. One must remember that the book and especially the movie have certain sensational, "Hollywoodesque" elements which are purely fictional.

The true story began in January 1949 and involved a 13-year-old boy named Robbie who lived with his parents and grandmother in Mt. Rainier, Md. (Some sources indicate that the family actually lived in nearby Cottage City; possibly, authorities wanted to keep that actual place secret to protect the boy.) Robbie was very close to his aunt who visited the family frequently from St. Louis, Mo. She was a medium and attempted to communicate with the spirit world. Not only did she spark Robbie's interest in this practice, she also taught him how to use the Ouija board.

Strange phenomena began happening on Jan. 10, 1949. The family heard scratching on the walls; however, exterminators found no evidence of pests of any kind. Objects moved by themselves: a table would turn over, a chair would move across the room, a vase would fly through the air and a picture of Christ would shake. At night, Robbie felt scratching in his bed, and he suffered nightmares frequently.

After the aunt died suddenly on Jan. 26, Robbie continued to use the Ouija board to communicate with her and others. The strange phenomena also continued. Moreover, Robbie's disposition changed — he become unsettled, agitated and angry.

In February, his parents took Robbie to visit their Lutheran minister, Rev. Schulze. Being interested in parapsychology, he thought perhaps a poltergeist was tormenting the family. Pastor Schulze allowed Robbie to move into his house for observation for a couple of days. The minister witnessed chairs and other objects moving by themselves. After he saw the bed shake, he moved the mattress to the floor, where it glided along by itself. Pastor Schulze became suspicious of the presence of evil.

Upon Pastor Schulze's recommendation, the family took Robbie to the Mental Hygiene Clinic of the University of Maryland for testing. After two rounds of testing, nothing abnormal was discovered. Pastor Schulze then advised the family to contact the local Catholic priest. Robbie and his parents visited Father Hughes of St. James Catholic Church in Mt. Rainier. While interviewing Robbie, Father Hughes saw the telephone and other objects in his office move by themselves.

Robbie also cast obscene and blasphemous remarks at him in a strange, diabolical voice. The room became eerily frigid. Father Hughes was convinced that Robbie was possessed. After reviewing the facts of the case and the medical evidence, Cardinal O'Boyle authorized an exorcism.

Robbie was admitted to Georgetown Hospital, where Father Hughes began the ritual of exorcism. The boy became violent, with spitting and projectile vomiting. He cast obscenities and blasphemies at Father Hughes. Although restrained to the bed, Robbie broke loose and wrenched out a metal spring with which he slashed Father Hughes from his left shoulder to wrist. The wound required over 100 stitches to close it. Robbie seemed calm after this attack, not remembering the ordeal. He was then released and sent home.

The strange phenomena soon resumed at their home. One night, when Robbie was changing for bed, he screamed. A bloody word had been scratched on his chest, Louis. His mother asked if this meant, "St. Louis," and another bloody word appeared, yes.

Almost immediately, the family journeyed to visit their cousin in St. Louis. The same strange phenomena began to happen. The cousin, a student at St. Louis University, talked with one of her priest professors, Father Bishop, S.J., about the situation. Father Bishop then contacted one of his close friends, Father Bowdern, S.J., pastor of St. Francis Xavier Church.

The two priests and a young Jesuit scholastic went to interview Robbie on March 9, 1949. They noticed bloody zig-zig scratches on his chest. They heard scraping sounds. They saw a large bookcase move and turn around by itself and a stool move across the floor. Robbie's bed would shake as he lay on it. He hurled obscenities and blasphemies at them. The priests knew they were confronting evil.

They petitioned Cardinal Ritter for permission to perform an exorcism. After reviewing all of the evidence including medical and psychiatric exams, he granted permission on March 16.

As the priests began the Rite of Exorcism, Robbie became violent. He made howling and growling noises. The bed shook up and down. On his chest appeared bloody scratches with the words hell and devil, and even an image of Satan. Robbie spit at the priests as he hurled obscenities and blasphemies, with intermittent fiendish laughter.

For his own safety and for the family's welfare, Robbie was then transferred to the Alexian Brothers Hospital and placed in the psychiatric ward. Father Bowdern continued to perform the exorcism. With the family's consent, Robbie was baptized a Catholic. When Father Bowdern tried to give him First Holy Communion, Robbie five times spit out the Sacred Host; they then paused to say the Rosary, and Robbie finally received the Holy Eucharist.

On April 18, Easter Monday, the exorcism came to a climax. As Father Bowdern continued the ritual, the demon recognized the presence of St. Michael the Archangel, and was expelled from Robbie. A sound like a gunshot was heard throughout the hospital. After this whole ordeal, Robbie remembered nothing of the diabolical phenomena, except the vision of St. Michael. Interestingly, The Washington Post ran a front-page story on August 20, 1949 entitled, "Priest Frees Mt. Rainier Boy Reported Held in Devil's Grip."

Certainly, this story is frightening, but is nevertheless true. Keep in mind also that no matter what sensational effects Hollywood may have added to the real movie, they cannot compare in horror to the actual presence of evil displayed in diabolical possession.

So to answer the reader's original questions, yes, the devil really can possess someone, and yes, the Church really does exorcisms. Be on guard! Stay away from anything dealing with the occult, including Ouija boards. Use the weapons of the holy arsenal that protect us from evil: pray, attend Mass, receive Holy Communion, live by the commandments and the teachings of the Church and confess sins frequently. If we rely on this holy arsenal for God's graces, we have no need to fear: the love of God will always triumph over evil.

Exorcism (& Possession by Devils / Unclean Spirits)

The driving out of evil spirits in cases of demoniacal possession by adjuration. Such exorcism must be performed by a priest with the express permission of the bishop, and with the rite provided in the 'Rituale Romanium.' (Definition from A Catholic Dictionary, 1951)

Scripture has many, many references to people possessed by devils, and the removal of them. Everything in Scripture is written for our instruction. Exorcism has been used as needed throughout the history of the Catholic Church, so it is clear that possession by devils and unclean spirits has not been limited to the time of Jesus and the Apostles. See below for Scriptural references and past Church teaching.


References in Scripture to Possession by Devils / Unclean Spirits:

"And when evening was come, they brought to him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word: and all that were sick he healed" Matthew 8:16
"And when it was evening, after sunset, they brought to him all that were ill and that were possessed with devils. And all the city was gathered together at the door. And he healed many that were troubled with divers diseases; and he cast out many devils, and he suffered them not to speak, because they knew him." Mark 1:32-34
"And when they were gone out, behold they brought him a dumb man, possessed with a devil. And after the devil was cast out, the dumb man spoke, and the multitudes wondered, saying, Never was the like seen in Israel" Mark 9:32-33
"Then was offered to him one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, so that he spoke and saw. And all the multitudes were amazed, and said: Is not this the son of David? But the Pharisees hearing it, said: This man casteth not out the devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself: how then shall his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you." Mark 12:22-28
"And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus threatened him, saying: Speak no more, and go out of the man. And the unclean spirit tearing him, and crying out with a loud voice, went out of him. And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying: What thing is this? what is this new doctrine? for with power he commandeth even the unclean spirits, and they obey him." Mark 1:23-27
"And as he went out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the monuments a man with an unclean spirit, Who had his dwelling in the tombs, and no man now could bind him, not even with chains. For having been often bound with fetters and chains, he had burst the chains, and broken the fetters in pieces, and no one could tame him. And he was always day and night in the monuments and in the mountains, crying and cutting himself with stones. And seeing Jesus afar off, he ran and adored him. And crying with a loud voice, he said: What have I to do with thee, Jesus the Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God that thou torment me not. For he said unto him: Go out of the man, thou unclean spirit. And he asked him: What is thy name? And he saith to him: My name is Legion, for we are many." Mark 5:2-9
"And when he was come forth to the land, there met him a certain man who had a devil now a very long time, and he wore no clothes, neither did he abide in a house, but in the sepulchers. And when he saw Jesus, he fell down before him; and crying out with a loud voice, he said: What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of the most high God? I beseech thee, do not torment me. For he commanded the unclean spirit to go out of the man. For many times it seized him, and he was bound with chains, and kept in fetters; and breaking the bonds, he was driven by the devil into the deserts. And Jesus asked him, saying: What is thy name? But he said: Legion; because many devils were entered into him." Luke 8:27-30
"And lo, a spirit seizeth him, and he suddenly crieth out, and he throweth him down and teareth him, so that he foameth; and bruising him, he hardly departeth from him. And I desired thy disciples to cast him out, and they could not. And Jesus answering, said: O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring hither thy son. And as he was coming to him, the devil threw him down, and tore him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and cured the boy, and restored him to his father." Luke 9:39-43
"And his fame went throughout all Syria, and they presented to him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and such as were possessed by devils, and lunatics, and those that had palsy, and he cured them" Matthew 4:24
"Now some also of the Jewish exorcists who went about, attempted to invoke over them that had evil spirits, the name of the Lord Jesus, saying: I conjure you by Jesus, whom Paul preacheth" Acts 19:13
"Finally, brethren, be strengthened in the Lord, and in the might of his power. Put you on the armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places. Therefore take unto you the armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and to stand in all things perfect." Ephesians 6:10-13
"And one of the multitude, answering, said: Master, I have brought my son to thee, having a dumb spirit. Who, wheresoever he taketh him, dasheth him, and he foameth, and gnasheth with the teeth, and pineth away; and I spoke to thy disciples to cast him out, and they could not. Who answering them, said: O incredulous generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. And they brought him. And when he had seen him, immediately the spirit troubled him; and being thrown down upon the ground, he rolled about foaming. And he asked his father: How long time is it since this hath happened unto him? But he said: From his infancy: And oftentimes hath he cast him into the fire and into waters to destroy him. But if thou canst do any thing, help us, having compassion on us. And Jesus saith to him: If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And immediately the father of the boy crying out, with tears said: I do believe, Lord: help my unbelief. And when Jesus saw the multitude running together, he threatened the unclean spirit, saying to him: Deaf and dumb spirit, I command thee, go out of him; and enter not any more into him. And crying out, and greatly tearing him, he went out of him, and he became as dead, so that many said: He is dead. But Jesus taking him by the hand, lifted him up; and he arose. And when he was come into the house, his disciples secretly asked him: Why could not we cast him out? And he said to them: This kind can go out by nothing, but by prayer and fasting" Mark 9:16-28

Church Teaching on Exorcism and Possession:

The third order is that of exorcists, to whom is given the power to invoke the name of the Lord over those who are possessed by unclean spirits. Hence the Bishop when ordaining them presents to them a book in which the exorcisms are contained, and at the same time pronounces this form of words: Take, and commit to memory, and have the power of imposing hands over the possessed, whether baptised or catechumen." Catechism of Council of Trent, Sacrament of Holy Orders, Exorcist
"But as to baptized persons who are vexed in body by unclean spirits, the same reason holds good of them as of others who are demented. Hence Cassian says (Collat. vii): "We do not remember the most Holy Communion to have ever been denied by our elders to them who are vexed by unclean spirits."" St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Is Communion to be given to those who lack the use of reason?
"But the influence of the demon, as we know from Scripture and the history of the Church, goes further still. He may attack man's body from without (obsession), or assume control of it from within (possession). As we gather from the Fathers and the theologians, the soul itself can never be "possessed" nor deprived of liberty, though its ordinary control over the members of the body may be hindered by the obsessing spirit (cf. St. Aug., "De sp. et an.", 27; St. Thomas, "In II Sent.", d. VIII, Q. i; Ribet, "La mystique divine", Paris, 1883, pp. 190 sqq.)" 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Demonical Possession
"All through the Middle Ages councils continued to discuss the matter: laws were passed, and penalties decreed, against all who invited the influence of the Devil or utilized it to inflict injury on their fellowmen (cf. the Bulls of Innocent VIII, 1484; Julius II, 1504; and Adrian VI, 1523); and powers of exorcism were conferred on every priest of the Church. The phenomenon was accepted as real by all Christians" 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Demonical Possession
"Why possession should manifest itself in one country rather than another, why it should have been so common in the time of Christ and so comparatively rare in our own, why even in Palestine it should have been confined almost entirely to the province of Galilee are questions on which theologians have speculated but on which no sure conclusion can ever be reached. The phenomenon itself is preternatural; a humanly scientific explanation is, therefore, impossible." 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Demonical Possession

A fine modern picture by Schwind is in the Schack Gallery at Munich. This painting represents the legend of Wolfgang forcing the devil to help him to build a church.

no it's not a picture from that site that shall not be named

[8bitagent]

Ultimately at the end of the day, I prefer an atheistis Dawkins worldview. And it's not even that I deny anyone's beliefs or possibility. God, Devil, UFOs, whatever. To me it's good cop bad cop. Coke, Pepsi. Occult, lies, complicating 85-90 years we have on this planet. Probably why I could never marry a religious person, they'd find me annoying. All you need is love, the rest is baggage.

I normally can't stand Bill Maher, but I can never get enough of this gem

[seemslikeadream]

Pope's 'gay lobby' remarks stir up new storm of Vatican gossip
Pontiff's comments spark flurry of speculation about alleged 'bunga bunga' scene in the Holy See

Tom Kington in Rome
The Observer, Sunday 30 June 2013 10.00 EDT

Pope Francis's private comments to a group of visiting South American churchmen caused a sensation when they appeared on a religious website. Photograph: Alberto Pizzoli/AFP/Getty Images
A tide of lurid speculation, questionable accusations and possible blackmail attempts is buffeting the Vatican following Pope Francis's claim that he is preparing to tackle a gay lobby secretly at work behind the Holy See's walls.

The new pope's private comments to a group of visiting South American churchmen, which caused a sensation when they appeared on a religious website last week, prompted blushes in the Vatican and unleashed feverish gossip in Rome regarding the contents of a report on Vatican infighting prepared last year for Francis's predecessor, Joseph Ratzinger.

On his retirement in February, Ratzinger handed his Argentine successor the dossier, which reportedly describes a lobby of gay, senior churchmen inside the Vatican, running a network of patronage while fighting off blackmailers.

The pope's unguarded remarks, which appeared to confirm the speculation, have fuelled a new round of accusations, beginning with a convicted paedophile priest, Father Patrizio Poggi, who last week named nine fellow prelates in Rome as part of a secret band who used a police officer to supply them with eastern European rent boys.

By Friday Poggi was under arrest, accused of defamation, as investigators claimed he had invented the whole story to take revenge on fellow priests who stood by when he was found guilty of abusing children.

On Thursday the anti-paedophile campaigner Francesco Zanardi posted a taped conversation on his website in which an informant told him about alleged secret sex parties inside the Vatican involving 14-year-old male prostitutes and cardinals, as well as rented apartments in Rome where prelates kept a supply of young men.

The man, who claimed to be involved in organising the parties, said he wanted to expose the Holy See's own "bunga bunga" scene, offering to supply photos and videos taken by the prostitutes and telling Zanardi:: "I can give you a hand."

"He named two cardinals … and the details he supplied stood up," Zanardi said. He bleeped out the names on the online recording, but has supplied all details to prosecutors, who have opened an investigation.

"In another call, the man put me in touch with one of the boys, who had just turned 18 … I talked to him and believed his story. He was known as 'the blond' and was one cardinal's favourite, but when I urged him to go to the police, he just said: 'It's my living.'"

Zanardi, 43, is on a mission to expose abuse and hypocrisy in the church after he was sexually abused in Liguria between the ages of 11 and 16 by a priest, Nello Giraudo, who had already been moved from one parish because of abuse allegations. The priest was later given an 18-month jail sentence.

An Italian journalist, Carmelo Abbate, who was also contacted by the anonymous informant, said he had yet to be convinced his stories stood up.

"He seemed like a man who wanted to take revenge … but he didn't come up with the proof," said Abbate, whose 2011 book Sex and the Vatican lifted the lid on the gay clubs and saunas frequented by Rome-based priests, including one who has held mass inside the Vatican.

Abbate has since published an exposé of priestly paedophilia in Italy. "During my research into abuse I came across many blackmailers, and decided they were almost as bad as the abusers, since they are trying to make money out of victims," he said.

Vatican Rentboy Scandal: Paedophile Priest Patrizio Poggi Arrested for Slander
Italian police hold disgraced priest who accused ex-policeman of pimping boys to nine clergymen.
By UMBERTO BACCHI: Subscribe to Umberto's RSS feed | July 1, 2013 12:46 PM GMT

The Vatican had refused to reinstate Poggi after he served a five-year sentence for abusing teenage boys (Reuters)
A convicted paedophile priest who claimed that an underage prostitution ring was operating inside the Holy Roman Church has been arrested for slander.

Italian prosecutors said that Patrizio Poggi, a 46-year-old former priest who named nine clergymen and three other people as involved in recruiting and abusing young boys in Rome, made up the allegations out of personal animosity.

The Vatican had refused to reinstate Poggi after he served a five-year sentence for abusing teenage boys during his time as a parish priest at the San Filippo Neri church in Rome.

"Poggi conceived and put in action a slanderous plan, presenting circumstances that were false'', prosecutors said.

FOLLOW IBTIMES
"He wanted to cause a scandal that he believed could have led to a review of his sentence and his re-admission to the church."

The Vatican had rejected Poggi's allegations as false and said he was motivated by a desire for vengeance. It criticised sections of the Italian media for publishing the names of those accused by Poggi.

"The cardinal expresses his full confidence in the magistracy and declares himself full convinced that this slander will be demolished, demonstrating Poggi's claims to be untrue," said Cardinal Agostino Vallini, head of the Catholic Vicariate of Rome.

"God will hold everyone accountable for their deeds."

[Wombaticus Rex]

Why is this stuff not sound bizarre and other stuff is considered just crazy talk?

It is bizarre, though, a fabric of absurd lies and self-aggrandizing little men who don't know shit about shit.

I think what you're asking just comes down to funding and followers -- but that doesn't mean it's not deeply stupid and transparently false.

Gabrielle Amorth is a blatant liar. Bob Larson is even crazier. Bobby Jindal? Oh, he's governor of Louisiana!

[seemslikeadream]

Why is this stuff not sound bizarre and other stuff is considered just crazy talk?

It is bizarre, though, a fabric of absurd lies and self-aggrandizing little men who don't know shit about shit.

I think what you're asking just comes down to funding and followers -- but that doesn't mean it's not deeply stupid and transparently false.

Gabrielle Amorth is a blatant liar. Bob Larson is even crazier. Bobby Jindal? Oh, he's governor of Louisiana!

yes bizarre to you ....bizarre to me but for centuries completely acceptable to millions and millions of people where as competing possession tales are verboten ESPECIALLY around here....now if I wanted to continue to talk about the Catholic church's possession beliefs I would no doubt be able to discuss that here without being labeled absolutely insane and my character held in question...snidely spat upon by fellow members...insults and innuendos flying everywhere....Why the double standard?...that's all I'm asking....Now if I did firmly believe in the Catholic church possession theory I still would be able to post about that here...correct? without all that crap hurled at me...homophobe...anti-semite.... just making up shit...etc?

[Wombaticus Rex]

If you started a thread to discuss the Vatican’s history with exorcism in any detail, yes, the issues of homophobia and anti-semitism would both come up within the first page. Because we’d be discussing Catholics.

[seemslikeadream]

If you started a thread to discuss the Vatican’s history with exorcism in any detail, yes, the issues of homophobia and anti-semitism would both come up within the first page. Because we’d be discussing Catholics.

and the labels of homophobia and anti-semitism would be directed at me for posting about Catholics?