12 dead in Fort Hood shooting spree

[NaturalMystik]

Shooting spree in ORLANDO taking place now. Here we gooooo..

Holy crap, I thought that was sarcasm at first! The shit is really hitting the fan out there.

The tail is wagging the dog big tyme!

[elfismiles]

Beautiful. QFT.

QFT? "Quote For Truth"?

Por que?

[elfismiles]

War at Home: First Responders Describe Carnage at Fort Hood
Friday, November 06, 2009

For Military Police Sgt. Andrew Hagerman, it began with a call over the radio: "Shots fired." And then another: "Officer down." He put on his lights and sirens and raced to the scene.

Hagerman, 27, was one of the first responders to the 30-minute barrage of gunfire that pierced through Fort Hood Thursday, turning the sun-drenched Texas military base into a war zone on U.S. soil. He and his colleagues described the scene as one of organized chaos, and they told of the heroism of a base full of soldiers who rushed to save the wounded, and learned that the shooter was one of their own.

SLIDESHOW: Deadly Fort Hood Rampage

"There were people on the ground, there were soldiers from all over the post rushing in with whatever they had to control the bleeding, ripping off their uniforms, their shirts, shorts, anything they could get their hands on," said Hagerman, who has served two tours in Iraq.

"They were also treating the shooter on scene," he said.

"I moved around to see who needed to be moved where, triaging the victims while also working to preserve the crime scene.

"You don't expect it here. We're trained for this, we know what to do, but it was a shocking moment."

The gunfire came to an end after civilian police Sgt. Kimberly Munley took the gunman down, despite being shot herself. When Hagerman arrived on the scene he saw a wounded Munley being carried into an ambulance.

"She's a nice person, she's straightforward and she does her job well," he said. "Was I surprised that she was able to stop him? Not at all."

First responders were quick to treat the shooter, identified as 39-year-old Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.

When asked if there was any hesitation to provide medical treatment to a man who allegedly killed his comrades, Hagerman said, "They are always your brothers and sisters in arms no matter what. It doesn't really matter if he's doing the killing."

Hasan worked at Fort Hood's Darnall Army Medical Center, the same hospital where many of the victims were treated.

Emergency room physician Captain Reis Ritz was in Darnall when the loudspeaker came on: "Mass casualties. Mass casualties."

He said the first few to arrive were soldiers with multiple gunshot wounds who had driven themselves to the hospital. Others arrived soon after, some of them carrying friends who were more severely wounded. Many of the victims came into the emergency room with multiple gunshot wounds.

For Major Stephen Beckwith, the Emergency Medical Response director at Fort Hood, the sheer number of gunshot wounds struck him immediately, reminding him of blast injuries he'd seen in combat.

He and other ER personnel told FoxNews.com that the gunshot wounds appeared to have been inflicted by semi-automatic pistols loaded with long bullets more often used with a standard M16 rifle.

"Just so many gunshot wounds — gunshot wounds to the torso, the belly, the chest," he said. "It's similar to what you'd see down range."

Ritz has not yet been deployed overseas, and he said it was like nothing he'd ever seen.

"The worst part," he said, "there's all these multiple gunshot wounds, all the victims shot in multiple places, and they keep coming in and I have no idea who's shooting, where they're shooting from, or why.

"The worst part, not knowing when it would end, not knowing how many more, not knowing if it's only going to be gunshots or something else."

"It's not like we're in Iraq or in Afghanistan or in anything — it's home. It's like you'd expect in war, but it's home."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572686,00.html

[elfismiles]

Details emerge about Fort Hood suspect's history
By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE (AP) – 54 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — He was by turns caring and contentious, a man quick to say "I am blessed" in casual greeting yet one who seemed to stew in discontent that he could not always keep to himself.

Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, suspect in the assault that killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, and hurt 30, salved the emotional wounds of troops returning from war even as he objected to his own looming deployment to Afghanistan, where he was to counsel soldiers suffering from stress.

But Hasan argued with fellow soldiers who supported U.S. war policy, say those who know him professionally and personally. He was a counselor who once required counseling for himself because of trouble he had dealing with some patients, said a former boss.

Authorities on Friday seized Hasan's home computer, searched his apartment and took away a Dumpster as the 39-year-old Army major lay in a coma in the hospital, attached to a ventilator.

There are many unknowns about the man authorities say is responsible for the worst mass killing on a U.S. military base.

Most of all, his motive.

For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood, in July, Hasan worked at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing his career in psychiatry, as an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in disaster and preventive psychiatry. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.

While an intern at Walter Reed, Hasan had some "difficulties" that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.

Grieger said privacy laws prevented him from going into details but noted that the problems had to do with Hasan's interactions with patients. He recalled Hasan as a "mostly very quiet" person who never spoke ill of the military or his country.

"He swore an oath of loyalty to the military," Grieger said. "I didn't hear anything contrary to those oaths."

But, more recently, federal agents grew suspicious.

At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

They had not confirmed Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.

Federal authorities seized Hasan's computer Friday during a search of his apartment in Killeen, Texas, said a U.S. military official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

His anger was noted by a classmate, who said Hasan "viewed the war against terror" as a "war against Islam."

Dr. Val Finnell, a classmate of Hasan's at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, attended a master's in public health program in 2007-2008. Finnell says he got to know Hasan because the group of public health students took an environmental health class together. At the end of the class, everyone had to give a presentation. Classmates wrote on topics such as dry cleaning chemicals and mold in homes, but Finnell said Hasan chose the war against terror. Finnell described Hasan as a "vociferous opponent" of the terror war. Finnell said Hasan told classmates he was "a Muslim first and an American second."

Hasan recently was involved in a spat with another Fort Hood soldier residing in his apartment complex, apparently related to his Muslim beliefs.

The manager of the complex, John Thompson, said the other soldier, John Van de Walker, allegedly keyed Hasan's car and also removed and tore up a bumper sticker that read "Allah is Love." Thompson said Van de Walker had been in Iraq and was upset to learn that Hasan was Muslim.

A report filed with Killeen police on Aug. 16 indicates that Hasan's vehicle, a 2006 Honda Civic, had been scratched by an unknown object causing an estimated $1,000 worth of damage. The report indicates that Van de Walker, 30, was arrested on Oct. 21 and charged with criminal mischief. The matter has been referred for prosecution, according to the report.

The phone number for Van de Walker wasn't in service Friday, and Thompson, the apartment manager, said he had moved out of the complex.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and he wanted to get out of the Army. She said he had sought a discharge for several years, and even offered to repay the cost of his medical training.

Hasan was in the preparation stage of deployment, which can take months, though Army spokeswoman Col. Cathy Abbott was uncertain when Hasan was to leave. Abbott said Hasan was to deploy with an Army Reserve unit that provides what the military calls "behavioral health" counseling.

Another military official said Hasan had indicated he didn't want to go to Iraq but was willing to serve in Afghanistan. The official did not have authorization to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

A different military official said Hasan's family has Palestinian roots. There have been reports that he was harassed for his Muslim religion, but the official says there is no indication Hasan filed a complaint with military officials about that.

Alice Thompson, the manager at the apartment complex where Hasan lived, said he'd been living there since mid-August. Thompson said she didn't talk to him other than to say hello in passing. Thompson said he always answered her "How are you?" with "I am blessed."

Noel Hasan said her nephew "did not make many friends" and would say "the military was his life."

A cousin, Nader Hasan, told The New York Times that after counseling soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with post-traumatic stress disorder, Hasan knew the scars of war well.

"He was mortified by the idea of having to deploy," Nader Hasan said. "He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there."

Retired Army Col. Terry Lee, who said he worked with Hasan, told Fox News that Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the armed forces who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.

Col. Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical services at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, said she had known Hasan.

"You wouldn't think that someone who works in your facility and provided excellent care for his patients, which he did, could do something like this," Kesling said. She described him as "a quiet man who wouldn't seek the limelight" and said she was shocked when she heard he was the suspect in the shootings.

Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his Army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md. He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim.

"I got the impression that he was a committed soldier," Khan said. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.

On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.

"We hardly ever got to discussing politics," Khan said. "Mostly we were discussing religious matters, nothing too controversial, nothing like an extremist."

Hasan earned his rank of major in April 2008, according to a July 2008 Army Times article.

He served eight years as an enlisted soldier. Military records show he also served in the ROTC as an undergraduate at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg and received a bachelor's degree in biochemistry there in 1997.

But college officials said Friday that Hasan graduated with honors in biochemistry in 1995 and there was no record of him serving in any ROTC program.

He previously had attended Barstow Community College in Barstow, Calif., and Virginia Western Community College in Roanoke, Va., according to Virginia Tech records.

Associated Press writers Lara Jakes, Pam Hess, Lolita C. Baldor and Brett Zongker in Washington; Alicia Chang in Los Angeles; Sue Lindsey in Roanoke, Va.; April Castro in Killeen, Texas; and AP's News Research Center in New York contributed to this report.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD9BQ8F500

[barracuda]

When asked if there was any hesitation to provide medical treatment to a man who allegedly killed his comrades, Hagerman said, "They are always your brothers and sisters in arms no matter what. It doesn't really matter if he's doing the killing."

That's an odd response.

Many of the victims came into the emergency room with multiple gunshot wounds.

Lotta lead flyin' around.

He and other ER personnel told FoxNews.com that the gunshot wounds appeared to have been inflicted by semi-automatic pistols loaded with long bullets more often used with a standard M16 rifle.

The kind of bullet that would go right through you and hit someone else, maybe.

"Just so many gunshot wounds — gunshot wounds to the torso, the belly, the chest," he said. "It's similar to what you'd see down range."

What does "down range" mean here?

[Percival]

When asked if there was any hesitation to provide medical treatment to a man who allegedly killed his comrades, Hagerman said, "They are always your brothers and sisters in arms no matter what. It doesn't really matter if he's doing the killing."

That's an odd response.

Many of the victims came into the emergency room with multiple gunshot wounds.

Lotta lead flyin' around.

He and other ER personnel told FoxNews.com that the gunshot wounds appeared to have been inflicted by semi-automatic pistols loaded with long bullets more often used with a standard M16 rifle.

The kind of bullet that would go right through you and hit someone else, maybe.

"Just so many gunshot wounds — gunshot wounds to the torso, the belly, the chest," he said. "It's similar to what you'd see down range."

What does "down range" mean here?

Could mean HUMAN PAPER TARGETS what you would see after a practice round on a human paper target at the range.

Or down range could mean a war theatre.

I know guns pretty well but do not know of one that the military uses that is a handun that shoots m16 rifle type cartridges. Strange.

[beeline]

'Down range' typically means "along the course away from the launching site." In this context, I would assume the speaker has seen active duty, meaning, he's seen bullet wounds before, after an assualt or confrontation.

He and other ER personnel told FoxNews.com that the gunshot wounds appeared to have been inflicted by semi-automatic pistols loaded with long bullets more often used with a standard M16 rifle.

That jumped out at me too. The M-16 uses 5.56mm rounds. I don't know enough about guns (I don't own any) to know of any handguns that would use 5.56mm ammuntion too. I know enough to know that barrel size determines caliber, meaning only one caliber of bullet per type of gun. The M-16 does use 'long bullets' that tumble upon impact (the M-16 was designed to maim a casualty, the theory being that one living casualty takes three soldiers off the battlefield: the wounded and two to carry them).

[8bitagent]

Shooting spree in ORLANDO taking place now. Here we gooooo..

Yep. This stuff always comes in waves. RIGHT after VTech, like the next day, a guy went on a shooting rampage at NASA headquarters. Then there was a major school shooting, mall shooting and office shooting right after that.

Just like that brutal 2 week flap that culminated in the Amish school shooting.

Or the 1997-1999 American school shooting period.

Always happens...its like those heinous Wendigo like crazy attacks in Canada like the Greyhound bus cannibal

I'm beginning to understand, thanks to many researchers, including those on RI, that media bombards us with these heart-rending, trauma inducing stories that suck everyone into this sort of shocked state so their behavior can be manipulated in a certain way. When people are essentially distracted by their emotional involvement with these horrific events that occur on an daily basis accross the world, apparently they will believe almost anything; especially if it is repeated often enough and shown in a variety of different ways.

Exactly. Events like 9/11, the DC Beltway Serial Sniper, Anthrax, and this Fort Hood thing serve as an egregoric manipulation of fear and emotion...fear and extreme emotion being food for the old ones one could say symbolically(or not)

We then have Obama's "win", Michael Jackson, balloon boy and such which serve to manipulate emotion and further generate a spike in registered reaction.

Beyond that, I am almost sure that, whether it is perpetrated by the MIL or not (and this one stinks), each event can be stretched and pulled to achieve a desired effect so that certain people will likely react a certain way to further an ongoing agenda.

I've long wondered if all this is beyond some sort of "CIA Military" etc scenario...or something of a much darker and unexplainable origin.
You look at the Pearl Missisippi shooting case of 1997, and it was clear that something quite occult and Fortean was afoot with that shooter.

It's...as if forces of darkness seem to tap seemingly random people to
stand up and commit heinous acts *right* when it would be most ripe for the camera crews and population at large. VTech, Columbine, 9/11, you name it.

The idea that "the military/CIA" is behind all these "black ops" I don't see possible...given it seems(such as all the UFO flaps of 20th century America) the military seems taken off guard(Ive often wondered if even the military was surprised by the 9/11 attacks)

[crikkett]

I think this is more like chaos being taken advantage of, instead of being a preplanned psy-op. Maybe with the original script being something like the following comment to this article;

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s123 ... qus_thread

from your link abv:

Jose Padilla, the owner of Hasan’s apartment complex, said Hasan gave him notice two weeks ago that he was moving out this week.

OMG I saw the fnord.

[Asta]

Has anyone mentioned earlier in this thread that Hasan was a graduate of Virginia Tech?

I don't have time to read all the posts, but with the mention on this page of the VTech killings, and Jose Padillo, I thought I'd relay what I just heard on the news of Hasan's educational background.

[freemason9]

I'm trying hard not to fall into knee-jerk conspiracy mode here, but it isn't easy.

I don't have any problem starting right out with knee-jerk conspiracy mode. In my view of the world, everything should start out there, despite the "rule" we've been taught about "innocent until proven guilty" or, as freemason9 asserts: "sometimes shit happens." To which I will only concede that accidents happen, but when shit happens, we need to be a hell of a lot more suspicious, especially when there's military involvement.

It amazes me that, on this board of all places, some people are afraid of speculating on the possibility of a conspiracy -- as if there's something shameful about that mindset as a starting point. Shame really.

Nina, it isn't that i am "afraid of speculating on the possibility of a conspiracy;" I just don't see everything as a conspiracy, that's all. People do weird shit, and they go nuts sometimes. That's been a part of humanity since Caligula had his fever. Sometimes, shit really does happen, and it is unplanned and senseless.

I think my role here at RI is to challenge you to prove your case. Don't you need that sometimes? Otherwise, you will begin to distrust yourselves; rigorous intuition should be supported by rigorous consideration.

[n0x23]

I know guns pretty well but do not know of one that the military uses that is a handun that shoots m16 rifle type cartridges. Strange.

I've heard a couple reports that he used one or more of these....

FN's newest contribution the handgun's evolution is named the Five-seveN®. This 20-round pistol fires a 5.7mm bullet that will defeat most body armor in military service around the world today.

High stopping power: The Five-seveN® fires the 5.7x28mm SS190 Ball round which reliably penetrates Kevlar helmets and vests as well as CRISAT protection.

...which would answer one of my questions....how did he get so many casualties just with a hand gun?, well, if he had two of these, with a back-up clip for each pistol, he would have had, on the conservative side, 80 rounds, at least.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/

[23]

The only "conspiratorial" question that is nagging me, at the moment, is...

was the military doctor part of "America's Medicated Army"?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... z0W1zJLYPY

That is the only conspiracy that I'm curious about.

I'm trying hard not to fall into knee-jerk conspiracy mode here, but it isn't easy.

I don't have any problem starting right out with knee-jerk conspiracy mode. In my view of the world, everything should start out there, despite the "rule" we've been taught about "innocent until proven guilty" or, as freemason9 asserts: "sometimes shit happens." To which I will only concede that accidents happen, but when shit happens, we need to be a hell of a lot more suspicious, especially when there's military involvement.

It amazes me that, on this board of all places, some people are afraid of speculating on the possibility of a conspiracy -- as if there's something shameful about that mindset as a starting point. Shame really.

Nina, it isn't that i am "afraid of speculating on the possibility of a conspiracy;" I just don't see everything as a conspiracy, that's all. People do weird shit, and they go nuts sometimes. That's been a part of humanity since Caligula had his fever. Sometimes, shit really does happen, and it is unplanned and senseless.

I think my role here at RI is to challenge you to prove your case. Don't you need that sometimes? Otherwise, you will begin to distrust yourselves; rigorous intuition should be supported by rigorous consideration.

[barracuda]

n0x, don't you think there was definitely a firefight? I'd be willing to bet most of the casualties involved defensive fire from the other shooters who were subsequently released and/or the civilian police officer who eventually brought Hasan down. The story is being told as "gunman kills 13, wounds 30", but as of yet, we haven't heard ANY reports from inside the room where the incident occurred. There is a tremendous amount of damage control going on right now, either to maintain secrecy on the names of the cowboys who undoubtably contributed to the bloodbath (more likely), or to disguise the possibilty that there were other shooters on Hasan's team (less likely). Until we hear some plausible reports from first-hand witnesses, I don't think it makes any sense to assume Hasan fired all the shots that caused the injuries.

[n0x23]

n0x, don't you think there was definitely a firefight?

Absolutely, I'm not dismissing any theory as of yet, I suspect that there's something nefarious afoot, fer sure. But when something like this happens I usually focus on the "official" story, more than hypothesizing, so when they start spinning and redacting the initial reports after the fact I'm aware of it.

That being said, here is proof positive that it was a lone Muslim terrorist who committed this atrocious act of murder, sedition and treason!

Hurry before they delete it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqamMbKs0iE