Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

[Simulist]

Guy's a moron. What is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science even if this guy is a space cadet.

As I said earlier, if "what is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science," then it should be extremely easy for you to define — exactly — what it is and isn't.

Whether it's your "job" to, or not.

You won't like it.

Then please define — exactly — what is and isn't antisemitism.

[17breezes]

Guy's a moron. What is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science even if this guy is a space cadet.

As I said earlier, if "what is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science," then it should be extremely easy for you to define — exactly — what it is and isn't.

Whether it's your "job" to, or not.

You won't like it.

Then please define — exactly — what is and isn't antisemitism.

First let have a little discussion. I am a white guy. Do I and other white guys get to define racism against blacks, Hispanics? Will our definitions count as much as theirs?

[Simulist]

First let have a little discussion.

You called someone a moron, and then you said that "what is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science."

I'm simply asking you to prove it. Since it's "not rocket science," this should be very easy.

Exactly please, "What is and isn't antisemitism"?

[82_28]

Guy's a moron. What is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science even if this guy is a space cadet.

As I said earlier, if "what is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science," then it should be extremely easy for you to define — exactly — what it is and isn't.

Whether it's your "job" to, or not.

You won't like it.

Then please define — exactly — what is and isn't antisemitism.

First let have a little discussion. I am a white guy. Do I and other white guys get to define racism against blacks, Hispanics? Will our definitions count as much as theirs?

What literally are you talking about? I will tell you what I think. I think we shouldn't hate or look askance at any human being due to whatever heritage they may have and for whatever reason. What I think people are saying here 17, is that nobody gives a fuck about Hamas. What they give a fuck about is state sanctioned cruelty on OBVIOUSLY INNOCENT human souls that happen to populate both Israel and Palestine. Are there "evil doers"? Of course there are. Do we as humanity want to be like them? No. RI is a place where we hash shit out, we vent, we bring up shit about space and multi-dimensionality et al. No human I have ever met, especially an honest, thoughtful one, wants to be brow beaten with somebody's obsession. Do I hate the people of Israel? No. Do I hate the people that supposedly Hamas "represents". Nope again. Just drop it 17, and find us a good UFO or Gulf oil disaster link none of us have seen yet. Give us a spiral in the sky in Peru. Give us something about some ghosts that haunt the waters of where the Titanic sunk. Give us something about some weird finding about a quirky animal nobody has ever heard about. Go proofread Maxtheknife's site. Just do something other than this. Hash this particular topic out if you must. But bring something to the table other than what you seem to only be bringing as of now.

[82_28]

And furthermore, I see your presence and obsessive single tune, 17, as yet more proof that this is whole meaningless existence for all humanity is going down the tubes. When I add everything up that I've learned at the end of the day, your attitude happens to be in the equation. I don't like it. Shape up or ship out man. You know where you are. You're at RI.

Now, go find a UFO link and bring it here. (I'm kidding -- I'm not that into UFOs -- UNTIL somebody comes up with a good link and makes me go "hmmmm")

[compared2what?]

"nathan28"


my point exactly

the word holocaust was invented in the 13th century

it does not belong exclusively to one race

I do not deny your holocaust

but do not act like it's your word alone

To be clear what I mean to say is that there is nothing special, either in scope or method, about the Holocaust that makes it stand out when compared to numerous other ethnically-centered mass-murder campaigns that have not led to reparations in the same vein.

I'd say it's singular purely as a coincidental collision of old-world practice and modern technology. And the reason I think that's worth saying is that a pretty fucking major part of that old-world practice is what we English-speakers usually call "war." My point being that the military-industrial complex would have ultimately had to elevate it into the realm of Mythificationia somehow anyway, just out of sheer self-interest, irrespective of all other concerns.

Because they would have had a much harder time going right on using modern technology to kill millions in wartime (and not-in-wartime) from that day to this if people thought of the images of corpses and near-corpses that they were shown then as what they really are. Which is an unusually concise and exceptionally photo-documentable but otherwise utterly typical representation of the human costs of war.

So. I'm just noting for the record that Holocaust exceptionalism did and still does do many favors for empire, not just one. It allowed for the sleight-of-hand work that made Hiroshima and Nagasaki magically vanish for all practical purposes, to cite just one example.

And you can kind of see how wiping them off the resume would have been a necessary condition for any country that hoped to operate credibly under the guise of Policeman, Protector and Champion of the Whole Free World.

That pretty much goes without saying.
On the non-spectacular level, though: Totally agreed. Nothing unique or special about it. The reverse, in fact.

[Percival]

I dont speak Arabic and never claimed to, please show me the post where I said I did, I am Jewish not arabic nor muslim, I speak Hebrew.

It's on Page 8.

My experience is having lived in Jerusalem and other areas of Israel for 27 years of my life including all of my youth and young adult and having worked my way through university working as a field reporter for several different Israeli media publications, some assignments which included actually living IN Gaza for a period of time AFTER 2007 when Hamas took control of the area and speaking personally with Hamas leadership and militant soldiers who admitted to me that ultimately they want every Jew gone from the region and that if given the opportunity to make good on that they would do it. I speak the language also, Alice is on the other side of this issue and so her and I wont see eye to eye on anything but I do have equal experience to hers when it comes to the Gaza and Israel specifically

I'll grant benefit of the doubt by assuming that English is not your first language. But you surely see how this leads people to think that you spoke the same language as Hamas leaders. If it's not deliberately misleading, what you wrote is certainly confusing.

I had an interpreter when I spoke with the Hamas subjects that were part of my assignment, I think that would be obvious to anyone paying attention since I have said countless times I am an Israeli and a Jew, therefore I would have no real reason to speak arabic.

Those of us who are neither Israeli nor Jew would not assume so since you said that 'you spoke the language' in a paragraph about working in Gaza.

I am not here to "Pwnd" anyone whatever the hell that means

That means you lost the debate to Alice. Pwnd is a slang term used by gamers, adopted from a common typo of the word 'owned'.

There's one last issue I'm still hoping you'll give us details on: you claimed more than once that Israel sends weekly shipments of humanitarian aid to Hamas amounting to 10,000 tons of material, and that you've personally witnessed Hamas agents turn away deliveries of humanitarian aid from Israel. I've not found any corroborating information in my internet searches. Can you help? Can you find an outside report? Can you give a detailed account of what you witnessed?

Confusing, yes I see that now, no intention at all to mislead, however.

I dont see how I lost a debate to Alice since I never entered in to one with her to begin with, I have been involved in a discussion with about 20 others here in which she is one among them. One in particular whose opinion I really dont care much for to begin with, she is clearly antisemitic, yes thats fair game since she called me a racist.

Alice=antisemite.


I guess this is how the game is played here, please let me know the ground rules as we go since I am not really good at the name calling and ad hom but I am sure I will adapt accordingly and fit in just fine in time.


I will try and find you some documentation regarding the deliveries and rejections of them. Its pretty well known I am surprised you havent found anything actually. I have seen it mentioned several times on the BBC since this whole thing started.

[nathan28]

From the wingnuts at Foreign Policy (OMGTEHCFR):

To help students prepare for future acts of diplomatic casuistry, and to raise public consciousness about these tactics, I offer as a public service this handy 21-step guide: "How to Defend the Indefensible and Get Away With It." The connection to recent events is obvious, but such practices are commonplace in many countries and widely practiced by non-state actors as well.

Here are my 21 handy talking-points when you need to apply the white-wash:

1. We didn't do it! (Denials usually don't work, but it's worth a try).

2. We know you think we did it but we aren't admitting anything.

3. Actually, maybe we did do something but not what we are accused of doing.

4. Ok, we did it but it wasn't that bad ("waterboarding isn't really torture, you know").

5. Well, maybe it was pretty bad but it was justified or necessary. (We only torture terrorists, or suspected terrorists, or people who might know a terrorist...")

6. What we did was really quite restrained, when you consider how powerful we really are. I mean, we could have done something even worse.

7. Besides, what we did was technically legal under some interpretations of international law (or at least as our lawyers interpret the law as it applies to us.)

8. Don't forget: the other side is much worse. In fact, they're evil. Really.

9. Plus, they started it.

10. And remember: We are the good guys. We are not morally equivalent to the bad guys no matter what we did. Only morally obtuse, misguided critics could fail to see this fundamental distinction between Them and Us.

11. The results may have been imperfect, but our intentions were noble. (Invading Iraq may have resulted in tens of thousands of dead and wounded and millions of refugees, but we meant well.)

12. We have to do things like this to maintain our credibility. You don't want to encourage those bad guys, do you?

13. Especially because the only language the other side understands is force.

14. In fact, it was imperative to teach them a lesson. For the Nth time.

15. If we hadn't done this to them they would undoubtedly have done something even worse to us. Well, maybe not. But who could take that chance?

16. In fact, no responsible government could have acted otherwise in the face of such provocation.

17. Plus, we had no choice. What we did may have been awful, but all other policy options had failed and/or nothing else would have worked.

18. It's a tough world out there and Serious People understand that sometimes you have to do these things. Only ignorant idealists, terrorist sympathizers, craven appeasers and/or treasonous liberals would question our actions.

19. In fact, whatever we did will be worth it eventually, and someday the rest of the world will thank us.

20. We are the victims of a double-standard. Other states do the same things (or worse) and nobody complains about them. What we did was therefore permissible.

21. And if you keep criticizing us, we'll get really upset and then we might do something really crazy. You don't want that, do you?

terrorists01.jpg

[Simulist]

Didn't Percival say he was leaving?

Yes, yes... I seem to recall that.

[Percival]

Guy's a moron. What is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science even if this guy is a space cadet.

As I said earlier, if "what is and isn't antisemitism is not rocket science," then it should be extremely easy for you to define — exactly — what it is and isn't.

Whether it's your "job" to, or not.

You won't like it.

Then please define — exactly — what is and isn't antisemitism.

First let have a little discussion. I am a white guy. Do I and other white guys get to define racism against blacks, Hispanics? Will our definitions count as much as theirs?

I know they wont credit you but that really is a good point.

[Jeff]

Alice=antisemite.

No, she is not. And you need to stop firing off that word like Charles Whitman. You're not on target, and you need to be talked down from the observation deck.

[Percival]

Its like this, the antisemites want to define antisemitism differently because Arabs are semites yada yada yada but we all know what antisemitism means there is no need to split hairs and act ignorant.

You know damn well what it means how offensive it is to Jewish people.

[Percival]

Alice=antisemite.

No, she is not. And you need to stop firing off that word like Charles Whitman. You're not on target, and you need to be talked down from the observation deck.

Nice, so I am the one who gets fucking lectured here after they have continuously called me a racist and a murderer all day.

Great Jeff.


She and others have been calling me a fucking racist ALL DAY, have you been paying attention. I know youre selective around here but you cant be that obvious about it.

Its ok for them to call me a racist just because I am Jewish and an Israeli?

My calling her that was simply in jest because of what she had called me earlier and continued to call me throughout the day.

[Simulist]

Its like this, the anti semites want to define antisemitism differently because Arabs are semites yada yada yada but we all know what antisemitism means there is no need to split hairs and act ignorant.

You know damn well what it means how offensive it is to Jewish people.

Sloppy and, for you, typical. Not all Jewish people are the same. What one person finds offensive, many others do not.

And you should know that "damn well."

Have a nice day.

[Percival]

Its like this, the anti semites want to define antisemitism differently because Arabs are semites yada yada yada but we all know what antisemitism means there is no need to split hairs and act ignorant.

You know damn well what it means how offensive it is to Jewish people.

Sloppy and, for you, typical. Not all Jewish people are the same. What one person finds offensive, many others do not.

And you should know that "damn well."

Have a nice day.

And once again par for the course for you, nothing to add of substance just taking up space being a smart ass.