a little reminder... on differences...

[The Consul]

"it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts." Patrick Henry

And so it goes. But I must be more germanely. I agree with OP and Jack that yes, "they" do hate "us" and the level and breadth of that hatred is intensifying. For the most part those on the lefter side of things pretty much peter out at a hard head shaking and doing something radical like voter registration and tripping by and OWS event. The rightists have a different thing pushing them, a different thing echoing in their ears, a different sense driving them...a sense of fear, a sense of betrayal....a sense of doom that it’s alllll "OUR" fault.

The word socialist is used without about as much meaning as say the word Chickenbutt. They might as well use that word, most of them understand it better. Obama the Chickenbutt. Faggot chickenbutts. It's crazy. The level of vehemence is frightening, the amount of ignorance is appalling. You do hear weird stuff from the chickenbutts, but it ain’t the same, Billy. The trick is in making white people feel oppressed. Kinda like the National Chickenbutts; I mean National Socialists, by the time they started rounding up jews there were less, a lot less than 1% of them left in Deutschland.
So, I guess the only question is….where we gonna go?
Canada!

[justdrew]

thank you Consul, that's what I want to know, what the hell are we going to do?

Ever donated money to your union's political action fund? My name is on a list. Signed petitions, my name is on lists. and we know damn well they have people compiling such info. There's probably several ways to "check people out" before hiring for instance, that include a political check. Ain't no law aginit. Librul is not a protected class. Such discrimination has a long history in this country, and it only went away, to some extent, in the last 40 years. and now the info available is far greater than ever. They used to have to get their hands on voter registration lists and base on that (unless someone sent your name in).

After this next election, it's all up in the air and where the shit lands, nobody knows.

[Simulist]

And so it goes. But I must be more germanely. I agree with OP and Jack that yes, "they" do hate "us" and the level and breadth of that hatred is intensifying.

[...]

The rightists have a different thing pushing them, a different thing echoing in their ears, a different sense driving them...a sense of fear, a sense of betrayal....a sense of doom that it’s alllll "OUR" fault.

Just twenty minutes ago, I got a telephone call from a man I've been friends with for more than thirty years. He's a conservative Catholic, loyal to his wife and two children; he teaches religion class at church, and attends mass every Sunday and sometimes during the week. As he always has, my friend listens to right wing radio every single day, and sincerely believes much of it, but also understands that all of it is couched in rhetoric. My friend is a registered Republican.

This man called to wish my partner of 21 years and me a happy Valentine's Day, and to acknowledge the signing of gay marriage into law in Washington State — which he isn't sure about at all, but since he loves my partner and me he's happy for us.

Who, precisely, is "they" and these "rightists" you refer to?

[justdrew]

That's nice of him to be nice. In one moment, for someone he's long known personally.

We no more know who "they" are than we know who "we" are. They know who "we" are though.

Hey maybe some of these "nice" rightwingers will pick a liberal and his mom out from the camps and have the kid play violin for him, and nicely let them board a train to mexico one day.. Or hide some libruls (who they know to be "not that bad") in their attic. At any rate, the media they apparently ENJOY is every day growing more strident and more dehumanizing toward anyone not sufficiently one of "them"

Most of their candidates have explicitly said they would ignore/void the supreme court if they so choose. They're explicitly traitors to the constitution, running for president, and these NICE republicans just eat it up.

Fox contributor: Female soldiers should 'expect' to be raped

[Cedars of Overburden]

During Bush II, I worked in an almost exclusively Republican law office. One day the other secretaries & paralegals were teasing me about voting for Kerry. I told them I was voting for Nader, they didn't understand, etc. etc. Everyone was laughing when it occurred to me that I was saying everything that I shouldn't say, so I said what I should have said instead.

"Whenever the subject is not politics, you all are pretty good people. You don't run around bombing and torturing people. You yourselves are usually decent and kind. And that's what I don't get. How on earth can you vote for people who are not at least as decent as you yourselves?"

There was a great silence and everyone slunk back to work.

[Searcher08]

During Bush II, I worked in an almost exclusively Republican law office. One day the other secretaries & paralegals were teasing me about voting for Kerry. I told them I was voting for Nader, they didn't understand, etc. etc. Everyone was laughing when it occurred to me that I was saying everything that I shouldn't say, so I said what I should have said instead.

"Whenever the subject is not politics, you all are pretty good people. You don't run around bombing and torturing people. You yourselves are usually decent and kind. And that's what I don't get. How on earth can you vote for people who are not at least as decent as you yourselves?"

There was a great silence and everyone slunk back to work.

They can vote for them because they ARE decent and kind BUT
they cannot conceive of the equivalence of 'sociopath with politician', hence they are unable to conceive that those people would be playing them like a piano, with such mastery that they wouldn't even be aware of it. The concept of the people they vote for being sociopaths who want to fuck people over for fun and profit, is as alien as String Theory to them. When they are spoken to by the sociopaths, they take what they say at face value because, in one way, they are Innocents.

[Cedars of Overburden]

Innocence is very dangerous.

[The Consul]

And so it goes. But I must be more germanely. I agree with OP and Jack that yes, "they" do hate "us" and the level and breadth of that hatred is intensifying.

[...]

The rightists have a different thing pushing them, a different thing echoing in their ears, a different sense driving them...a sense of fear, a sense of betrayal....a sense of doom that it’s alllll "OUR" fault.

Just twenty minutes ago, I got a telephone call from a man I've been friends with for more than thirty years. He's a conservative Catholic, loyal to his wife and two children; he teaches religion class at church, and attends mass every Sunday and sometimes during the week. As he always has, my friend listens to right wing radio every single day, and sincerely believes much of it, but also understands that all of it is couched in rhetoric. My friend is a registered Republican.

This man called to wish my partner of 21 years and me a happy Valentine's Day, and to acknowledge the signing of gay marriage into law in Washington State — which he isn't sure about at all, but since he loves my partner and me he's happy for us.

Who, precisely, is "they" and these "rightists" you refer to?

I understand what you are saying...but at the same time asking "precisely" is a bit of an onerous demand. But I'll give you a couple of examples. A fellow I used to know, staunch catholic, charitible in attitude and quicker than most arround him to smile and see the satirical predicament at hand, registered republican, medical veteran of desert storm and shock and awe, confides to me one day on the rains swept greens as the conversation comes up (Mid East) "the only solution is to turn the whole godforsaken place into glass." He was not joking, he was not being sardonic. Good guy. Would lose no sleep over incinerating 200 million people. Another person whom I dealt with on a daily basis for 7 years. Good guy. Registered Republican. Insecure sort. One day says look at this...it is an email from a friend of his who had just gone to Iraq as a military contractor declaring with glee how he went through four mags before they got to their hotel and they hadn't even been assigned! "This is the shit, bro!" If it wasn't for his high blood pressure and his hip operation, he would take some time off to go over there and grease some hajis. Nice guy. Jumped my car once in nasty weather. Knew this woman. Very polite, very professional, not outspokenly conservative, but obviously indelicate to the plight of anyone below her class...declares after a vacation to Cabo "I can't believe it. We went outside of the compound to just, you know, see the sites. Those people! They are so filthy! How can they live that way, what is wrong with them? Why are they so stupid? I mean, I loved going to Mexico, but my lord I can't stand those Mexicans." Another aquaintance, more recent, another Catholic (I can spot them from a mile away having been a knight of the Altar for 11 years myself), a conversation that somehow led to politics (which I avoid unless I know the person very well) and he said, "I don't have a problem with the gays, as long as I don't have to be reminded every other day that they exist, and yeah, you bet, I'd vote for Rick Santorum." I could go on. I understand what you are saying. I was in a boat once with a family member who frequently would rant about "godamned mexicans" clogging up the waiting room of a clinic in Boise. I stay mum, don't say much, (until I catch him saying something utterly illogical and contrary to common law or the constitution). Anyway, there was a boat dead in the water. One guy and two kids. All latino, probably mexican, my family member pulls up along side them. I speak to them in spanish. First time they had the boat out, ran out of gas. Male suerte hombres. We pull them into the dock, help them get their boat out, smiles and hand shakes all around. On the way back to town I say "you know, sometimes I don't think you really believe half the shit you say." He looked at me and smiled and said, "oh yes I do, oh yes I fucking do."

I could go on. Some smoke cigars and go golfing, some chew snoos and go fishing, some organize the pancake breakfast at church on sunday, some lie about their dress size....but at the end of the day, these people, a dollar to a dime, would vote for Rick Santorum. Yes, given the right circumstances one of them in particular would probably pull anybody regardless of race or orientation out of a burning fire fearless of the risk to his life. But in general he would like them all to disappear. I have taken examples only of educated people. There are far worse examples from direct contact with ignorant piles. Like the guy down by the Market with a baby in the back pack on his shoulders screaming at the top of his lungs with a small crowd of like minded dipshits "KILL THE BITCH! KILL THE BITCH!" To the higher level of a building in which then FLOTUS Hillary Clinton was meeting with Patty Murray. Like the guy I new who was a vet of Kosovo, good kid, earnest eyes....trying to defend W Bush when a mutual friend (a conservative) said in 2000 "I just can't vote for Bush on the principle I refuse to waste my vote on someone I know is not as smart as I am." The Kosovo kid said "But there's more to learnin' and knowin' that book smarts. He knows what America is all about. He's goin to stem the tide." We all scrunched our brows and lowerd our chins with WTF looks on our faces. "You know," he went on whispering, "the niggers, they've gone too far." Or, another family member, not long ago, when I invited to come visit out here in Puget Sound just laughed and said, "Why would I want to go there, nothing but a bunch of niggers, spics and queers." Not a bad guy, really. Clean record. Successful small business man.

I could go on. But what's the point? Will your catholic friend defer to reason and not vote for Santorum? Or any of that pack of shameless hatemongers who are pandering to him?

[sunny]

During Bush II, I worked in an almost exclusively Republican law office. One day the other secretaries & paralegals were teasing me about voting for Kerry. I told them I was voting for Nader, they didn't understand, etc. etc. Everyone was laughing when it occurred to me that I was saying everything that I shouldn't say, so I said what I should have said instead.

"Whenever the subject is not politics, you all are pretty good people. You don't run around bombing and torturing people. You yourselves are usually decent and kind. And that's what I don't get. How on earth can you vote for people who are not at least as decent as you yourselves?"

There was a great silence and everyone slunk back to work.

They can vote for them because they ARE decent and kind BUT
they cannot conceive of the equivalence of 'sociopath with politician', hence they are unable to conceive that those people would be playing them like a piano, with such mastery that they wouldn't even be aware of it. The concept of the people they vote for being sociopaths who want to fuck people over for fun and profit, is as alien as String Theory to them. When they are spoken to by the sociopaths, they take what they say at face value because, in one way, they are Innocents.

This is very very true. Maybe it's because the conservatives I know are almost exclusively paleo, but I find that most of them take anyone they meet or THINK they know personally at face value. I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean it in a "I sincerely assume you're a fine and respectable person". Respectability is very important to them, it's a sign of good character. And to a degree it is, but only so far. To them it means being a conscientious citizen according to the standards of all reasonable people, like being a present and responsible parent. Most conservatives today are long haired veterans of the 60's so it's not about appearances or even personal history. For them, it's no longer about 'who are your people' but a 'what have you got for me now', kind of attitude prevails. And honestly, I find less true racism now than years ago by far, expressed or not. People down here no longer blink an eye at interracial marriages. It's a ain't no thang. But I am speaking of ordinary people, mechanics and machinists and nurses and paralegals, housewives and teachers, waitresses, construction workers, house cleaners, mid-level managers, drones in banks and insurance offices. I believe it's a different story with the people with a will and the agenda to be all over the media as the spokes models of the 'movement'.

[brainpanhandler]

[Luther Blissett]

There is certainly plenty of batting of eyes regarding interracial marriages today.

[Simulist]

And so it goes. But I must be more germanely. I agree with OP and Jack that yes, "they" do hate "us" and the level and breadth of that hatred is intensifying.

[...]

The rightists have a different thing pushing them, a different thing echoing in their ears, a different sense driving them...a sense of fear, a sense of betrayal....a sense of doom that it’s alllll "OUR" fault.

Just twenty minutes ago, I got a telephone call from a man I've been friends with for more than thirty years. He's a conservative Catholic, loyal to his wife and two children; he teaches religion class at church, and attends mass every Sunday and sometimes during the week. As he always has, my friend listens to right wing radio every single day, and sincerely believes much of it, but also understands that all of it is couched in rhetoric. My friend is a registered Republican.

This man called to wish my partner of 21 years and me a happy Valentine's Day, and to acknowledge the signing of gay marriage into law in Washington State — which he isn't sure about at all, but since he loves my partner and me he's happy for us.

Who, precisely, is "they" and these "rightists" you refer to?

I understand what you are saying...but at the same time asking "precisely" is a bit of an onerous demand.

Well, it should be. Because the concreteness we impute to "they" and the "rightists" is often misplaced, as in the case of my friend for just one example. (And other flesh and blood PEOPLE, too.)

But I'll give you a couple of examples. A fellow I used to know, staunch catholic, charitible in attitude and quicker than most arround him to smile and see the satirical predicament at hand, registered republican, medical veteran of desert storm and shock and awe, confides to me one day on the rains swept greens as the conversation comes up (Mid East) "the only solution is to turn the whole godforsaken place into glass." He was not joking, he was not being sardonic. Good guy. Would lose no sleep over incinerating 200 million people. Another person whom I dealt with on a daily basis for 7 years. Good guy. Registered Republican. Insecure sort. One day says look at this...it is an email from a friend of his who had just gone to Iraq as a military contractor declaring with glee how he went through four mags before they got to their hotel and they hadn't even been assigned! "This is the shit, bro!" If it wasn't for his high blood pressure and his hip operation, he would take some time off to go over there and grease some hajis. Nice guy. Jumped my car once in nasty weather. Knew this woman. Very polite, very professional, not outspokenly conservative, but obviously indelicate to the plight of anyone below her class...declares after a vacation to Cabo "I can't believe it. We went outside of the compound to just, you know, see the sites. Those people! They are so filthy! How can they live that way, what is wrong with them? Why are they so stupid? I mean, I loved going to Mexico, but my lord I can't stand those Mexicans." Another aquaintance, more recent, another Catholic (I can spot them from a mile away having been a knight of the Altar for 11 years myself), a conversation that somehow led to politics (which I avoid unless I know the person very well) and he said, "I don't have a problem with the gays, as long as I don't have to be reminded every other day that they exist, and yeah, you bet, I'd vote for Rick Santorum." I could go on. I understand what you are saying. I was in a boat once with a family member who frequently would rant about "godamned mexicans" clogging up the waiting room of a clinic in Boise. I stay mum, don't say much, (until I catch him saying something utterly illogical and contrary to common law or the constitution). Anyway, there was a boat dead in the water. One guy and two kids. All latino, probably mexican, my family member pulls up along side them. I speak to them in spanish. First time they had the boat out, ran out of gas. Male suerte hombres. We pull them into the dock, help them get their boat out, smiles and hand shakes all around. On the way back to town I say "you know, sometimes I don't think you really believe half the shit you say." He looked at me and smiled and said, "oh yes I do, oh yes I fucking do."

I could go on. Some smoke cigars and go golfing, some chew snoos and go fishing, some organize the pancake breakfast at church on sunday, some lie about their dress size....but at the end of the day, these people, a dollar to a dime, would vote for Rick Santorum. Yes, given the right circumstances one of them in particular would probably pull anybody regardless of race or orientation out of a burning fire fearless of the risk to his life. But in general he would like them all to disappear. I have taken examples only of educated people. There are far worse examples from direct contact with ignorant piles. Like the guy down by the Market with a baby in the back pack on his shoulders screaming at the top of his lungs with a small crowd of like minded dipshits "KILL THE BITCH! KILL THE BITCH!" To the higher level of a building in which then FLOTUS Hillary Clinton was meeting with Patty Murray. Like the guy I new who was a vet of Kosovo, good kid, earnest eyes....trying to defend W Bush when a mutual friend (a conservative) said in 2000 "I just can't vote for Bush on the principle I refuse to waste my vote on someone I know is not as smart as I am." The Kosovo kid said "But there's more to learnin' and knowin' that book smarts. He knows what America is all about. He's goin to stem the tide." We all scrunched our brows and lowerd our chins with WTF looks on our faces. "You know," he went on whispering, "the niggers, they've gone too far." Or, another family member, not long ago, when I invited to come visit out here in Puget Sound just laughed and said, "Why would I want to go there, nothing but a bunch of niggers, spics and queers." Not a bad guy, really. Clean record. Successful small business man.

Yes, many of the "rightists" are indeed thoroughly hateful people. (And many of them aren't.)

I could go on. But what's the point? Will your catholic friend defer to reason and not vote for Santorum? Or any of that pack of shameless hatemongers who are pandering to him?

I sincerely doubt it.* But really... Which "dummy" among these front-men my friend might pretend is actually going to affect the empire which employs that aforementioned front-man as its official spokeperson for the next four years is really of little interest to me. (It's not like the official face of the empire is actually going to do something in contravention to whomever among the fraction of 400 or so who really runs things in this oligarchy actually decides things.)

_________
* He refers to Santorum as a "dummy." Although I'm sure he doesn't really know how right he is! — given the fact that, living impaired or not, Charlie McCarthy was arguably as smart as any of these wooden "candidates" and, like them, was also mouthing the already-vetted ideas and words which pretended to emerge from him.

[Nordic]

This thread made me suddenly remember a jarring experience I had 20 years ago when someone, somewhere, nominated me to be a judge of a certain group of Ace Awards, which were the awards they gave out to cable tv shows.
I sat in a room with a group of other people who were presumably my peers and watched all these nominated shows that we were to vote on. Several were from BET, "Black Entertainment Television", and they were obviously lower budget than the others, due I'm sure to the fact that they had a finite number of viewers and therefore less funding. Anyway, several of the BET shows, while having lower productuin values, I found to be superior for their entertainment value and originality, which I thought was really impressive given that they had less to work with. The content was strongly "Black" of course, which I also found refreshing, I remember one about gospel music that was especially invigorating.

But when the presentations were all over and we were getting up and mingling a bit, several of the others made snarky little comments about the BET stuff and snickered and made other derogatory comments, and there were lots of quiet chuckles of agreement from others. I was actually pretty shocked, as they all seemed to be pretty "liberal" entertainment professionals. But they were also all white, every single one of them (including me).

It really disturbed me at the time and I forgot all about it till now.

Needless to say none of the BET shows won any of the Ace awards. In spite of my votes.

[The Consul]

I could go on. But what's the point? Will your catholic friend defer to reason and not vote for Santorum? Or any of that pack of shameless hatemongers who are pandering to him?

I sincerely doubt it.* But really... Which "dummy" among these front-men my friend might pretend is actually going to affect the empire which employs that aforementioned front-man as its official spokeperson for the next four years is really of little interest to me. (It's not like the official face of the empire is actually going to do something in contravention to whomever among the fraction of 400 or so who really runs things in this oligarchy actually decides things.)

_________
* He refers to Santorum as a "dummy." Although I'm sure he doesn't really know how right he is! — given the fact that, living impaired or not, Charlie McCarthy was arguably as smart as any of these wooden "candidates" and, like them, was also mouthing the already-vetted ideas and words which pretended to emerge from him.

I wouldn't argue with anything you say; though the face of the emipire, as you call it, is like picking what kind of nightmare you would like to have. A Santorum face would be socially degrading to say the least, sort of like Reagan on acid. I do not believe that all people on the right are evil, nor all people on the left are good. Santorum is a talking turd. But there is a machine, a very efficient and throrough machine that has instilled a new algorythm of hate. I see it and hear it constantly. Non stop erotic cabaret of intellectual brutality. Like the young guy next door was pissed at something and comes out of his house and screams "fuckin nigger...fucking nigger" I'm like excuse me, what did you say? He's like oh...oh...my dad he's ah...ah...a....I reminded him that my grandchildren are "black" and I would be really fuckin pissed off if the first time they heard that word spoken that way was at grandpa's house. Art Bell afficianado, long story, paranoid. World gone wrong. Everything's inside out. I'm sure your catholic friend is a decent chap, who knows, a saint, the birds fly down and land on his shoulder and whisper in his ear for all I know... but depending on his parish and diocesese he is listening to a boatload of nukin futs bullshit...he belongs to a church that tried to burry Raymond Hunthausen alive. Imagine you have have a godamned priest try to stick his hands inside your cassock and have to say Father my old man will beat you to death if you don't stop because I will tell him if you don't. And he would have, he would have gone right up to the rectory and ripped him to pieces. Yeah, there were good ones too, no doubt, but they seem to weed them out. Everybody has issues and nobody really has to prove anything because most people just go along with whatever program they signed up for. Most people drown in their ignorance or revel in the illusion that they know anything at all. Most people are kindly hearted and civilized but only a fool would ever trust more than two or three of them at a time.

[The Consul]

This thread made me suddenly remember a jarring experience I had 20 years ago when someone, somewhere, nominated me to be a judge of a certain group of Ace Awards, which were the awards they gave out to cable tv shows.
I sat in a room with a group of other people who were presumably my peers and watched all these nominated shows that we were to vote on. Several were from BET, "Black Entertainment Television", and they were obviously lower budget than the others, due I'm sure to the fact that they had a finite number of viewers and therefore less funding. Anyway, several of the BET shows, while having lower productuin values, I found to be superior for their entertainment value and originality, which I thought was really impressive given that they had less to work with. The content was strongly "Black" of course, which I also found refreshing, I remember one about gospel music that was especially invigorating.

But when the presentations were all over and we were getting up and mingling a bit, several of the others made snarky little comments about the BET stuff and snickered and made other derogatory comments, and there were lots of quiet chuckles of agreement from others. I was actually pretty shocked, as they all seemed to be pretty "liberal" entertainment professionals. But they were also all white, every single one of them (including me).

It really disturbed me at the time and I forgot all about it till now.

Needless to say none of the BET shows won any of the Ace awards. In spite of my votes.

Man, that's like a great one act play. Symbolic of typical squeeky white consciousness (I know - I have one!)Especially if the you-guy is black, or at least is the only one who gets any of it, laughs at the humor, nods his head in agreement, clenches his jaw in shared certitude.