Towards Rigorous & Radical Conspiracy Theory

[semper occultus]

...well.....no actually, it was more an attempt at a comment upon the recurringly dysfunctional nature of your board interactions with a certain other poster than you as an individual or anti-fascism as an activity...

..but please feel free to compose away in retaliation though....

[American Dream]

...well.....no actually, it was more an attempt at a comment upon the recurringly dysfunctional nature of your board interactions with a certain other poster than you as an individual or anti-fascism as an activity...

..but please feel free to compose away in retaliation though....

I don't find what you're doing particularly helpful nor respectful of Jeff's guidelines. Actually, I put slad on ignore a good while back and- while she did ignore me for a while- she must not have liked certain perspectives I was conveying because eventually she slipped away from the ignore mode. It bugged the shit out of me that untruthful and kinda weird things kept being said about me, especially since I was not responding in any way.

Eventually it got to me so much that I took her off ignore, since ignoring did not stop it.

Now, after another round I have put her back on ignore and intend to stay there. Since PW's latest intervention, slad has been staying away from me, which is great- and I hope it continues!

[semper occultus]

.....oh its gone......was that directed at you or me...? anyway please allow me to extend my heartiest apologies...it won't happen again...( partly creative burn-out admittedly )

[Searcher08]

...well.....no actually, it was more an attempt at a comment upon the recurringly dysfunctional nature of your board interactions with a certain other poster than you as an individual or anti-fascism as an activity...

..but please feel free to compose away in retaliation though....

I don't find what you're doing particularly helpful nor respectful of Jeff's guidelines. Actually, I put slad on ignore a good while back and- while she did ignore me for a while- she must not have liked certain perspectives I was conveying because eventually she slipped away from the ignore mode. It bugged the shit out of me that untruthful and kinda weird things kept being said about me, especially since I was not responding in any way.

Eventually it got to me so much that I took her off ignore, since ignoring did not stop it.

Now, after another round I have put her back on ignore and intend to stay there. Since PW's latest intervention, slad has been staying away from me, which is great- and I hope it continues!

I found peartreed's posts and Semper's all extremely funny and bang on target.
Obviously you are completely free to quote Jeff guidelines dozens of times, but for me, you are always start at the wrong part - you should quote from the start the previous paragraph.

Welcome to the RI board.
The first word is WELCOME

and when I think of that WELCOME, it sounds like THIS
http://zombo.com/

While Rigorous Intuition welcomes a range of informed perspectives, it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values. It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of all people are respected.
= Assume good faith

Have you ever met anyone who mistakes peoples reactivity with their engagement style to hostility with what they care about? For me, your 'cognitive immune system' gets triggered by what you see as clear and present horrible damaging ideas proximity detection but you are SO primed that 'mention of ' is taken as flag waving support.
From your point of view, you see people fighting back against your 'protective thought barrier'.
and from your experience maybe it feels that same as if the NF is marching through your front room.

In years gone past, you posted on such a wide range of stuff - do you not remember me *asking you* to comment more and saying that you were like a Frontiers man coming back from solo explorations unloading your news then off again.
Do you know that the whole thing about Singing Rocks was brought to R.I. by... you???!!!
I do not know what happened but it seemed to me like all that (which was the essence of RI was about) has stopped. There no plurality or engagement other than 'fighting R.I.'s fascist and anti-Semite takeover'. I think there are about two dozen people here. Who is paying attention except us?

I think the old AD would have laughed with the above posts. I certainly saw myself in peratreed's

Personally, I think this represents R.I. at its best

[American Dream]

I appreciate the sentiment towards fostering goodwill on the board, Searcher. Ironically, it was only yesterday that you were making intimations about solace and I being ADL agents. I don't think that was the first time you did something like that towards me. What do you think that does towards my goodwill, when I simply want biased/racist material in check, in direct accordance with Jeff's wishes?

It really will take all of us- or at least the vast majority. Therefore the problem is not simply "out there". I seem to recall a great spiritual teacher who said something about this, too.

[solace]

...well.....no actually, it was more an attempt at a comment upon the recurringly dysfunctional nature of your board interactions with a certain other poster than you as an individual or anti-fascism as an activity...

..but please feel free to compose away in retaliation though....

I don't find what you're doing particularly helpful nor respectful of Jeff's guidelines. Actually, I put slad on ignore a good while back and- while she did ignore me for a while- she must not have liked certain perspectives I was conveying because eventually she slipped away from the ignore mode. It bugged the shit out of me that untruthful and kinda weird things kept being said about me, especially since I was not responding in any way.

Eventually it got to me so much that I took her off ignore, since ignoring did not stop it.

Now, after another round I have put her back on ignore and intend to stay there. Since PW's latest intervention, slad has been staying away from me, which is great- and I hope it continues!

Oh I hope you do succeed keeping her on ignore. She is such a whacked out troublemaker. I have her and searcher on ignore and it is so nice not having to directly consider their constant crap anymore. Good luck. I will never take either off ignore no matter how awful or weird they get.

[American Dream]

(Strongly considering putting Searcher on permanent "ignore")

[solace]

(Strongly considering putting Searcher on permanent "ignore")

You won't regret it believe me.

[seemslikeadream]

back on topic

Ritual Magick a Radical Conspiracy -- does it work?

I know when I get the feeling my name is being mention in a post I am drawn to the thread ...is that Magick?

It took a rocket scientist / Research pioneer also delved into the occult
Reviewed by Christina Eng
Published 4:00 am, Sunday, February 20, 2005


John Parsons in the late 1940's

Strange Angel

The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist

John Whiteside Parsons

By George Pendle

Unlike contemporaries who believed science and magic were inherently contradictory, John Whiteside Parsons considered the two endeavors complementary, "different sides of the same coin."
An early pioneer in the field of rocket science and one of the founders of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, he helped to create engines that improved the performance of military aircrafts. At 25, he and colleagues Ed Forman and Frank Malina, both 27, became the country's first government- sanctioned rocket group.

But he also experimented with the supernatural, becoming a key figure in the occult community that thrived in Los Angeles in the 1930s. A follower of English mystic Aleister Crowley and the occult society the Ordo Templi Orientis, he often presided over a world of chants and prayers, of black magic and sexual excess.

In "Strange Angel: The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons," George Pendle brings to light both segments of Parsons' work. A journalist for the Times of London and the Financial Times, he discusses with ease and confidence the research Parsons undertook and the accomplishments he made. He explains Parsons' fascination with spiritualism as well:

"Rocketry postulated that we should no longer see ourselves as creatures chained to the earth but as beings capable of exploring the universe. Similarly, magic suggested there were unseen metaphysical worlds that existed and could be explored with the right knowledge ... [In] striving for one challenge he could not help but strive for the other."

Parsons dreamed as a child of space flight. He grew up in Pasadena in the 1910s and '20s an enthusiastic reader, devouring Arthurian legends, Greek and Norse myths and stories of ancient battles. He dug into pulp fiction for science and space-travel adventures and flipped through issues of Amazing Stories, a magazine devoted to space-age fantasies. He found himself intrigued by their technological settings.

With an indulgent grandfather, he built and launched small rockets from the backyard, filling paper or balsa wood casings with black powder scraped from fireworks and cherry bombs he collected. "With a fizz and a roar," Pendle writes, "the rocket would shoot into the sky, scorching the grass as it left, diminishing in size rapidly until a second later, its charge spent, gravity would drag the empty casing back down to earth."

He and Forman, a friend from junior high, pushed each other to create increasingly complex and powerful devices. In high school, they remained mischievous and reckless, "a couple of powder monkeys," one classmate recalls. "They would go out into the desert and make rockets and do all sorts of explosive stuff."

In 1932, in the throes of the Depression, Parsons began to work part time to support his family. He found a job at an explosives firm in Los Angeles, a place that piqued his curiosity to no end. There -- and later in its primary manufacturing plant in Pinole -- he learned chemical lore. He discovered the differences between low explosives and high explosives. He developed an encyclopedic knowledge of scientific compounds.

Back in Pasadena, Parsons and Forman continued to experiment with rockets. They spent time at nearby Caltech, where they met Malina, a graduate student with similar interests. The three men eventually formed the Rocket Research Group at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory at the California Institute of Technology, an early incarnation of JPL, with access to campus equipment and resources.

They conducted studies with little faculty supervision or bureaucratic control over the next four years. "For Parsons the project was the culmination of a dream from his childhood," Pendle writes, "to belong to a group of men who were doing something noble and wonderful, an Arthurian band of adventurers making a quest into space."

In due time, Parsons and his colleagues were approached by the U.S. government to help develop jet-assisted takeoff rockets, useful in combat situations. The group formed Aerojet Engineering Corporation to do so. The organization would establish itself as a viable aerospace and defense contractor in the decades to come.

To his credit, the author effectively chronicles Parsons' affinity for rocket science and space travel. He successfully breaks down complicated concepts, making technical theories accessible to everyday readers.

Pendle depicts his subject as an idealist, a young man who dreamed big dreams, a sympathetic character who died too soon. (Parsons was killed in an explosion in his home at age 37.)

He provides fascinating snippets of Pasadena and Los Angeles in the early parts of the 20th century as well, when aviators such as Glenn Martin, Donald W. Douglas, John Northrup and Allan and Malcolm Loughead (later Lockheed) set up shop in Southern California. This information helps to give the book a cultural and historical context.

Unfortunately, not every section of "Strange Angel" is as compelling as the next. Chapters on the scientist's interest in the occult, on incantations and seances -- though necessary in this properly balanced biography -- are harder to comprehend. They become intangible and alienating.

Parsons' involvement in these activities will likely remain somewhat inexplicable. But it will also keep him from getting the serious respect and recognition he deserves, despite a lifetime of good work and significant achievement.

The Dark Gods of Jet Propulsion
BABALON is too beautiful
for sight of mortal eyes
She has hidden her loveliness away
in lonely midnight skies,
-Jack Parsons, from his poem, "The Birth of Babalon"-

It's the summer of 1940. Three men are working out in the desert arroyo behind the Devil's Gate Dam near Pasadena. They help each other slide heavy equipment out the back of a pick up truck and carry it over to a test pit. As the conglomeration of metal is taken to the deep pit and carefully set up it becomes apparent that the structure is a small rocket. Ed Forman, the mechanic of the bunch, carefully locks each piece into place while Weld Arnold; a 40ish assistant carefully sets up a camera to catch the upcoming experiment. The third man in the trio helps them both but you can tell that he's the one with the most invested in the outcome. His nervous gaze at the metal finned ship betrays his feelings. He knows that the Army Air Corps wants a return for the $10,000 dollar contract they bestowed upon the group for research into "jet-assisted propulsion." He hopes that this test of his newly invented red-fuming nitric solid rocket booster will be successful. Finally the rocket and amateur gantry have been assembled and the camera is ready to photograph the event. But before the test can begin the slightly nervous chemist strides over to the rocket and begins to recite a poem.

"Thrill with the lissome lust of the light,
O man! My man!
Come careering out of the night
Of Pan! Io Pan!"
And on and on it goes as he recites the epic occult poem "The Hymn to Pan" by Aleister Crowley. Finally, having finished his ode to the fabled horned god, Jack Parsons takes his place beside the other men in the bunker and tells them to go ahead with the launch.


And that's pretty much the way it happened, time and time again back in the late 1930's and early 40's. Jack's fascination with the occult was overlooked by the rest of the small group conducting experiments out in the small canyons of Pasadena California. He was the brain behind the outfit. Without his knowledge and expertise the tests would not have even been possible, let alone successful. So what's a little magic between scientists when the future of rocketry is at stake?

But who was this scientist who combined an intense interest in the occult with his desire to advance rocket science? Who exactly was Jack Parsons? Largely unknown in these days, in the 1930's and 40's he was the main man behind the United States aspirations into space exploration. Famed rocket scientist Robert Goddard once said that Jack Parsons, not himself, was the real farther of American rocketry. His work with others at Caltech led him to become one of the founding fathers of the Jet Propulsion Laboratories in Pasadena. After his experiments with liquid and solid rocket fuel proved successful he went on to form the company Aerojet Corp. which is today one of the world's largest producers of rockets and even makes the solid fuel boosters for the shuttle.

But it was his interest in the occult and magical workings that makes him doubly interesting. For when he wasn't working with rockets you could find Parson's at his huge rambling mansion in Pasadena where he held court over an odd assortment of bohemians, misfits, and other freaky tenants. Within this circus of aberrant behavior Parson regularly held magical "workings" where he attempted to contact the dark gods written about by infamous occult headman Aleister Crowley. (Indeed Parson's referred to Crowley as "most beloved father" in his writings.) In his most elaborate ritual Parsons, attempted to contact the great Whore of Babylon. and claimed to have been successful when a woman named Marjorie Cameron showed up on his doorstep a few days later.

His success in rocketry made him a rich man and when he sold his shares of Aerojet Corp he found himself with more money than he had ever had in his life. This new found wealth led him to delve deeper and deeper into the occult arts till it overshadowed his rocket research. His mansion, already the epicenter of a bizarre crowd of neo-hippies and pre-punks, became ground zero for strange behavior. Visitors to the residence recounted that the order of the day seemed to be chaos. Residents wore outlandish costumes (or no costumes at all), imbibed large quantities of drugs such as marijuana, peyote, and heroin, and released their animal instincts at all night parties where "Do what thou whilst" was the rule of the land. Lording above it all was Jack Parson who threw himself further and further into the occult lifestyle. He became the leader of the Agapé Lodge of the Ordo Templi Orientis, the occult organization that Crowley began. At one point he even traveled alone to the Mojave Desert where he claimed to have invoked Babalon. The experience led him to write his epic poem, "The Birth of Babalon."

But word of Parson's late night parties and strange doings didn't escape notice of the "straight world." More than once police were called to his house to investigate calls about the wild goings on. Parson would politely answer the policemen's questions and explain that he was a famous rocket scientist. That usually did the trick but when word of his all night "sex parties" reached the government he was promptly investigated by the FBI and in 1948 he was stricken of his security clearance and fired from his job. Parson's wealth soon dwindled and he was forced to take whatever work came his way. In 1952 while working as a consultant on explosives, a mysterious explosion killed him in his lab. Conspiracy theorists claim that it was a murder since Parson's was too skilled a technician to be careless with the substances he worked with. Others say that Parsons had grown too obsessed with the occult and his vigilance with explosives had waned as a result. Whatever the case, the death was ruled accidental and remains that way to this day.

But what of the concrete achievements that Parsons achieved in science? Why have they been overlooked? Is his name still known at Jet Propulsion Laboratories, the lab he co-founded? Jason and I went to JPL to see if we could find out the facts. Here's what we learned.

As you saw we were met with disinterest. Any record of Parsons seems to have been expunged from the current record. But then something freaky happened. As Jason and I were leaving, a man in a white sedan approached us. He had heard us asking around at JPL and said he knew some of the answers. He seemed nervous about talking to us on the laboratory grounds and insisted that we get in the car. Interested, we climbed into his car to find out what he knew. It proved to be a ride we wouldn't forget.

So what is the truth behind Jack Parsons? Is he the half-forgotten founder of JPL whose memory has been exorcised because of his occult theories? Or is there still a group of scientists who carry on his work? Is the Hymn to Pan still being sung softly in the background at each shuttle launch? I don't have the answers but I will leave you with what may be a cryptic clue.

In 1972 American scientists named a crater of the moon after Jack Parsons. The crater at 37 degrees north and 171 degrees west can not be seen from earth. It is on the dark side of the moon

Sex and Rockets by John Carter, published by Feral House, July 2000

Madness, Love, and Mysticism.

[Searcher08]

I appreciate the sentiment towards fostering goodwill on the board, Searcher. Ironically, it was only yesterday that you were making intimations about solace and I being ADL agents. I don't think that was the first time you did something like that towards me. What do you think that does towards my goodwill, when I simply want biased/racist material in check, in direct accordance with Jeff's wishes?

It really will take all of us- or at least the vast majority. Therefore the problem is not simply "out there". I seem to recall a great spiritual teacher who said something about this, too.

I was not referring to YOU as being any form of agent.
I certainly do not think YOU work for or are associated with the ADL.
In fact, you have probably had shit along the line from them.

You know the context for this: my remarks were your 'shoe gazing' when slad and myself were called "fucking anti-Semites" and despite being asked where you stood, you agreed... by silence, dissembling and shoe-gazing. Or having a proxy - that is accusing you of bad faith, not agent baiting.

A scenario
If you were at a school PTA and I was beside you and we had known each other as parents there at the school for many years - and some new random stranger seen at one PTA comes in and points at you and shouts Pedo! Pedo! and you asked me "Do you believe that?"
Do you think I'd dissemble like hell and say
"Oh well now I'm not sure dont know Hmm OOoo Why did they say? I'm not sure"
or do you think
I'd go over and either physically or in this case metaphorically, deck them?
It's the latter.

(To be clear, I was wondering if *Solace* works there or is a hasbara activist, because she acts to me like she is. I am not 'agent-baiting' - people who work at the ADL or are hasbara are not agents AFAIK)

I should be clear and say she is the only person I think should have been banned from here - I think it was a really bad decision she was not for the above, but that is just my personal opinion, for similar reasons that brekin explained in his post on JR - it devalues the whole board.

Your statement "in direct accordance with Jeff's wishes"? What is that based on?
It sounds like reading someone's will or thinking they have passed a flaming torch on to you and you alone
- well if you have been annointed by Jeff to turn this board into what YOU consider RI to be, I think the rest of us should be told.

When a person trades freedom (of thought) for security (of thought), they end up with no freedom, no security and no thinking

[Searcher08]

(Strongly considering putting Searcher on permanent "ignore")

You won't regret it believe me.

[American Dream]

Thought about it a lot- ignore is the best option.

[jakell]

The below is snipped to make the issue more generalised

...................I do not know what happened but it seemed to me like all that (which was the essence of RI was about) has stopped. There no plurality or engagement other than 'fighting R.I.'s fascist and anti-Semite takeover'. I think there are about two dozen people here. Who is paying attention except us?.............

The trouble with the issue of 'anti-fascism', and especially of taking a 'conspiracy theory' angle on it, is that it contains very clear delineations of good and evil, and in that sense it is almost like most religions. This is very compelling if one is not careful.

Most conspiracy angles produce the appreciation of further shades of grey, and also (ideally) reduce the simplistic human craving to banish these outright. But in a highly emotive field where there is also the opportunity to cast oneself as a 'soldier of light', one has to be careful about becoming too immersed, to the effect that one's self image become intertwined.
Then we start to see distortions that can ripple outwards to affect all nearby.

[Searcher08]

Thought about it a lot- ignore is the best option.

I have thought about it a lot about it too.

And have a hypothesis that somewhere in the last few years you had the crap kicked out of you by some racist anti-Semite yob(s) and that experience gave you PTSD and that the posts you read are triggering to that trauma.
If that is the case you will associate me with enormous pain, for which a decision of ignoring is the right one in the context of a forum like this.
That actually does not need to be like that and a 30 minute session with a good NLP person would clear it and enable a greater range of choices. As far as I know you never caught a single fascist here, though that was the MOD's job.

Alternatively, like jackell inferred, you have 'had religion'. I think this is more likely. Somehow you decided that an anti-fascist army of keyboard warriors with you on the white horse at the front ( and deciding admission criteria) is what these times require. And it will start at RI.
Which leaves me baffled - as the audience here must measure in several... tens.

Ahhh.. I see you are initiating Solace in the 'Ancient Art of CopyPasta' now.

Anyway, I wish you good luck.

[American Dream]

The below is snipped to make the issue more generalised

...................I do not know what happened but it seemed to me like all that (which was the essence of RI was about) has stopped. There no plurality or engagement other than 'fighting R.I.'s fascist and anti-Semite takeover'. I think there are about two dozen people here. Who is paying attention except us?.............

The trouble with the issue of 'anti-fascism', and especially of taking a 'conspiracy theory' angle on it, is that it contains very clear delineations of good and evil, and in that sense it is almost like most religions. This is very compelling if one is not careful.

Most conspiracy angles produce the appreciation of further shades of grey, and also (ideally) reduce the simplistic human craving to banish these outright. But in a highly emotive field where there is also the opportunity to cast oneself as a 'soldier of light', one has to be careful about becoming too immersed, to the effect that one's self image become intertwined.
Then we start to see distortions that can ripple outwards to affect all nearby.

Hmm- I think R.I. is peppered full of bad guy narratives- from top to bottom- and the majority of those perpetrators really are guilty of very bad acts.

Not surprising that this selectively negative focus on anti-fascism would come from the exact same person who has advocated for Keith Preston's cause here at Rigorous Intuition.

You still advocating Keith Preston's cause, jakell?

Because it seems like a good idea to take what your recommendations on anti-fascism with a grain of salt or two:

KEITH PRESTON

Thursday, 12 May 2011

Once again we have a scumbag that tries to use Anarchism to advance his Fascism. It happens a lot, never works, but still we get these idiots who think that if they say they are Anarchists that makes it okay to be a Nazi. This happens often with the more Libertarian-minded fascists, the ones who pretend to make people find common ground in what we all have issues with, while ignoring our conflicts, which are always racism, sexism and/or anti-Semitism. The kicker: they like all the racism sexism and/or anti-Semitism, so in truth is they are trying to get the public to give them a pass on such things.

Now the Libertarians who do this are bad enough, but when you are someone that comes out of straight up Anarchist circles and think you can still be down with that while working and supporting Fascists, it's pretty much an insult to be surprised that people treat you like the Nazi you are. The blog Attack the System is all about this third positionist bullshit, and the fact that it is blocked by the Philiadelphia Library system is a good sign that it isn't fooling anyone.

Attack the System is run by Keith Preston, who also heads up some outfit called the American Revolutionary Vanguard, a group that Infoshop.org has listed among the many attempts "by neo-nazis to pass themselves and their ideas off as compatible with anarchism." On his Facebook page, he lists his political views as "Anarchist/Anarcho-Pluralist, Secessionist, Third-Positionist, Libertarian Socialist", so we know right away how much of a scumbag he is. But let's throw some more wood on this fire. According to the blog nostate.com, he likes to push "a sort of meta-strategy for anarchism which aims at pluralism and ecumenicalism and which suggests that all anti-state tendencies ought to unite against the principal enemy of liberty, the state itself, in preference to choosing lesser targets of activist action such as sexism, racism, homophobia and so on." In other words, we should focus on the problems with the state and not be distracted by what even we would considet the byproduct of those problems.

On the face, that would be a great strategy. Even the guy from nostate.com says that. But he also notes something else. Were we to ignore those "lesser targets" or sexism racism and homophobia, we will ignore the fact that Preston is a sexist, racist homophobe and that it is a part of his political agenda! The nostate author notes that in one of his columns, Preston says the following:

"Do we really attract more people into our ranks by having so many self-hating whites, bearded ladies, cock-ringed queers, or persons of one or another surgically altered "gender identity" in our midst? Is this really something the average rebellious young person wants to be associated with? Could we not actually attract more young rebels into our ranks if all of this stuff was absent? I believe we could."

Continues at: http://onepeoplesproject.com/index.php/ ... th-preston