How Bad Is Global Warming?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:33 am

Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:07 pm wrote:
But this report implies that CO2 climate sensitivity is still an unknown quantity...

This is a patently false statement.

Ya think? ...the lead scientist of the report said...."If the level of greenhouse gases were to continue rising at a rapid pace over the coming decades, severe effects would be avoided only if the climate turned out to be far less sensitive to those gases than most scientists think likely".

Read and comprehend...what he is saying is that, if anthropogenic CO2 GHG turns out to be far less sensitive than IPCC AGW scientists factored in the climate models, the severe effects predicted will not happen.

Btw Iam, I consider your points about pollution and environmentalism in general as off topic on this thread....that is why I ignore them.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:47 am

Ben D » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:16 pm wrote:
Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:13 am wrote:I didn't see this posted anywhere; it's from last week.

U.N. Panel Issues Its Starkest Warning Yet on Global Warming

Michael Oppenheimer, a climate scientist at Princeton University and a principal author of the new report, said that a continuation of the political paralysis on emissions would leave society depending largely on luck.

If the level of greenhouse gases were to continue rising at a rapid pace over the coming decades, severe effects would be avoided only if the climate turned out to be far less sensitive to those gases than most scientists think likely, he said.

“We’ve seen many governments delay and delay and delay on implementing comprehensive emissions cuts,” Dr. Oppenheimer said. “So the need for a lot of luck looms larger and larger. Personally, I think it’s a slim reed to lean on for the fate of the planet.”

So the lead author of the report is not sure if CO2 GHG forcing is as sensitive as the IPCC climate scientists think. That implies they don't actually know for sure yet!

He thinks the future state of climate will depend on lucK! Wow...shows there is a big hole in the present state of the science!

Why would the governments (tax payers really) of the world want to spend $trillions on AGW mitigation if luck is a factor and climate scientists are not yet able to say what the sensitivity of CO2 is wrt warming is?


He's not saying what you think he does. Stop twisting words.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4143
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:26 am

"Luck" in this context means only a slim chance, a long shot. It means that given the "political paralysis" on the issue, individual people's only chance for survival in the future is "luck," i.e. a retreat from the coasts and a survivalist mentality, a breakdown of civilization, a massive solar storm, exterior intervention, a spontaneous shared cosmic awakening, etc. None of these things have a very high probability of happening.

"Luck" means a dwindling prospect for positive outcomes rapidly tumbling below 1%.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4991
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby fruhmenschen » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:38 pm

The nonprofit SkyTruth enlisted more than 200 volunteers to scan aerial imagery and pinpoint the locations of fracking wastewater ponds in Pennsylvania. (© Roy Morsch/Corbis)
Tracking Frackers From the Sky
Citizen scientists eyeing Pennsylvania's natural gas drillers in aerial images may help determine if there is a link between fracking and certain illnesses

By Richard Schiffman
SMITHSONIAN.COM
NOVEMBER 10, 2014 5:20PM

Ever since the natural gas boom took off in Pennsylvania in 2006, some people living near the drilling rigs have complained of headaches, gastrointestinal ailments, skin problems and asthma. They suspect that exposure to the chemicals used in the drilling practice called hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, triggers the symptoms. But there’s a hitch: the exact locations of many active fracking sites remain a closely guarded secret.

Brian Schwartz, an environmental epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and his colleagues have teamed up with Geisinger Health System, a health services organization in Pennsylvania, to analyze the digital medical records of more than 400,000 patients in the state in order to assess the impacts of fracking on neonatal and respiratory health.

While the scientists will track where these people live, says Schwartz, state regulators cannot tell them where the active well pads and waste pits are located. Officials at Pennsylvania’s Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) say that they have simply never compiled a comprehensive list.

So the Johns Hopkins researchers turned to a small nonprofit called SkyTruth, which scrutinizes satellite and other aerial imagery to figure out what is happening down here on Earth. The scientists traveled to the group’s headquarters in West Virginia in September 2013 to ask SkyTruth to help them locate Pennsylvania’s fracking wastewater ponds.

Fracking is a process in which a slurry of water mixed with sand and chemical lubricants is pumped underground at high pressure to shatter shale rock and release the natural gas imbedded within it. A portion of the spent fracking liquid shoots back up the well bore and needs to be disposed of. This “flowback" is laden with up to 40 different industrial chemicals and is often radioactive from its exposure to elements, such as radium and thorium, underground. While some of the tainted water is treated and then discharged into local rivers and streams, much of it gets stored in large plastic-lined impoundment ponds. The ponds waft a noxious chemical odor that may be responsible for respiratory problems in nearby residents.

To pinpoint the location of these ponds, SkyTruth launched a project called FrackFinder. They enlisted more than 200 volunteers in public meetings and on social media from as far away as Japan, who have collectively spent thousands of hours poring over satellite images of Pennsylvania’s bucolic landscape. SkyTruth trained its recruits online and with specially




Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovatio ... su6dU5r.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
fruhmenschen
 
Posts: 5977
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:34 pm

Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:26 am wrote:"Luck" in this context means only a slim chance, a long shot. It means that given the "political paralysis" on the issue, individual people's only chance for survival in the future is "luck," i.e. a retreat from the coasts and a survivalist mentality, a breakdown of civilization, a massive solar storm, exterior intervention, a spontaneous shared cosmic awakening, etc. None of these things have a very high probability of happening.

"Luck" means a dwindling prospect for positive outcomes rapidly tumbling below 1%.


Indeed. 'Luck' as used means "beating the odds," "defying mathematically determined probabilities," were the expected catastrophic damages somehow "miraculously" avoided.

You can deny anything you please, Ben, and believe as you do, but you're blind to the reality we exist in. Pollution controls are essential to limiting carbon output and are indeed the major player in this conversation and not at all off topic.

The only truth you've presented us is that you hold staunch beliefs not supported by most of the most educated people on Earth.

Like I said, we're now discussing the IPCC synthesis reports for AR5. Once you've read them, we'll once again argue their merits. You're still unprepared for mature discussion of this latest development of the world's battle to combat anthropogenic climate change impacts. (I would have been satisfied had you read at least the short 16 page Summary.)

It's beginning to feel like your my 5th grade student trying to explain a book he was supposed to have read for his homework, but didn't.

Edited to add "Ben" in first line of my second paragraph.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:22 pm

fruhmenschen » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:38 pm wrote:The nonprofit SkyTruth enlisted more than 200 volunteers to scan aerial imagery and pinpoint the locations of fracking wastewater ponds in Pennsylvania. (© Roy Morsch/Corbis)
Tracking Frackers From the Sky

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovatio ... su6dU5r.99


Love this.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4991
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:16 pm

Perhaps you'll find more of interest here fruhmenschen http://www.cectoxic.org/GasDrilling.html

Our Health Panel Report unfortunately has not yet been posted on the website, but here's an article about it, http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Air-near-fracking-sites-carries-cancer-risk-5858256.php

Although I've not reported upon it, Bakken Shale oil transportation by rail to our waterfront port's Global Oil storage facility for export elsewhere downriver has become a huge issue that exploded soon after the Lac-Mégantic disaster. Tanker rail safety was raised here and promoted by myself and two others two years before that, as full tanker trains encircled our capital city, endangering it and those traveling the highway it divided. Global is seeking to expand their port facility, install heaters to thin the oil for ease in transfer to ships and barges and railcars line the tracks only 50 feet from one of our public housing communities. The entire are is considered an Environmental Justice Area.

Public safety is one aspect of concern, environmental damage to immediate riverine areas is another, but most important is preventing the freeing of fossil fuel reserves that will be burned and once burned will tip the scales and rapidly exacerbate the environmental impacts of climate change.

All my info is on another computer or I'd share a few links and photos; maybe later, if I get it to find a dial tone.

But thanks to all for the helpful contributions. Not sure of the carbon absorbing mineral on a play area. Might raise too much silica-like dust. But in another less traversed area, sure!
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:21 pm

Luther Blissett » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:26 am wrote:"Luck" in this context means only a slim chance, a long shot. It means that given the "political paralysis" on the issue, individual people's only chance for survival in the future is "luck," i.e. a retreat from the coasts and a survivalist mentality, a breakdown of civilization, a massive solar storm, exterior intervention, a spontaneous shared cosmic awakening, etc. None of these things have a very high probability of happening.

"Luck" means a dwindling prospect for positive outcomes rapidly tumbling below 1%.

No...don't you blokes keep up to date.... the lead scientist said..."If the level of greenhouse gases were to continue rising at a rapid pace over the coming decades, severe effects would be avoided only if the climate turned out to be far less sensitive to those gases than most scientists think likely".

The reason he said this is because of the latest developments in climate science wrt CO2 climate sensitivity.....

New peer-reviewed paper: UN overestimated climate sensitivity to CO2

Image

Observations show IPCC exaggerates anthropogenic global warming by a factor of 7
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:16 pm

Now you're just cutting and pasting.

Why don't you admit you haven't read the IPCC synthesis report?

Funny, I don't see Phibbs and Lyres listed on your source material. What a waste of bandspace!
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:01 pm

Now you're ignoring the facts!

So here are facts.....the IPCC uses agw computer modelled reality whose projected temperatures are just that....predictions... not actual reality. Reality on the other hand is showing that the IPCC predictions are deviating more and more from reality as the years unfold. Something is wrong and that something is the amount of forcing given to CO2 GH effect in the climate models.

Agw proponents are always talking about the red line projected reality, skeptics otoh are always talking about actual reality.

Image

Now the dilemma for the IPCC and AGW climate scientists is that they can't adjust downwards the CO2 sensitivity to be in accord with scientific reality as that would reduce future global temperature projections, which in turn would mean there is no human caused climate disaster ahead, which in turn means the agw scientists are out of a job. Iow they have painted themselves into a corner and are not yet ready to admit it.

As for those ongoing headlines about this new warmest on record or that ....look at the chart above, they are in fact only minor anomalies relative to the mean of the ongoing 18 year pause.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:57 pm

No Ben, you're not going to redirect the thread. And I don't have hours to spend wasting time researching authors and their work. You've been asked repeated several questions, all relevant to the topic, none of which you've answered long before you introduced this bit of nonsense.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:21 pm

Image
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:57 pm

:farmer:



:clock:
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:25 pm

Wobbling on Climate Change
By PIERS J. SELLERS NOV. 11, 2014

GREENBELT, Md. — I’M a climate scientist and a former astronaut. Not surprisingly, I have a deep respect for well-tested theories and facts. In the climate debate, these things have a way of getting blurred in political discussions.

In September, John P. Holdren, the head of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, was testifying to a Congressional committee about climate change. Representative Steve Stockman, a Republican from Texas, recounted a visit he had made to NASA, where he asked what had ended the ice age:

“And the lead scientist at NASA said this — he said that what ended the ice age was global wobbling. That’s what I was told. This is a lead scientist down in Maryland; you’re welcome to go down there and ask him the same thing.

“So, and my second question, which I thought it was an intuitive question that should be followed up — is the wobbling of the earth included in any of your modelings? And the answer was no...

“How can you take an element which you give the credit for the collapse of global freezing and into global warming but leave it out of your models?”

That “lead scientist at NASA” was me. In July, Mr. Stockman spent a couple of hours at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center listening to presentations about earth science and climate change. The subject of ice ages came up. Mr. Stockman asked, “How can your models predict the climate when no one can tell me what causes the ice ages?”

I responded that, actually, the science community understood very well what takes the earth into and out of ice ages. A Serbian mathematician, Milutin Milankovitch, worked out the theory during the early years of the 20th century. He calculated by hand that variations in the earth’s tilt and the shape of its orbit around the sun start and end ice ages. I said that you could think of ice ages as resulting from wobbles in the earth’s tilt and orbit.

The time scales involved are on the order of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years. I explained that this science has been well tested against the fossil record and is broadly accepted. I added that we don’t normally include these factors in 100-year climate projections because the effects are too tiny to be important on such a short time-scale.

And that, I thought, was that.

So I was bit surprised to read the exchange between Dr. Holdren and Representative Stockman, which suggested that at best we couldn’t explain the science and at worst we scientists are clueless about ice ages.

We aren’t. Nor are we clueless about what is happening to the climate, thanks in part to a small fleet of satellites that fly above our heads, measuring the pulse of the earth. Without them we would have no useful weather forecasts beyond a couple of days.

These satellite data are fed into computer models that use the laws of motion — Sir Isaac Newton’s theories — to figure out where the world’s air currents will flow, where clouds will form and rain will fall. And — voilà — you can plan your weekend, an airline can plan a flight and a city can prepare for a hurricane.
Continue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story

Satellites also keep track of other important variables: polar ice, sea level rise, changes in vegetation, ocean currents, sea surface temperature and ocean salinity (that’s right — you can accurately measure salinity from space), cloudiness and so on.

These data are crucial for assessing and understanding changes in the earth system and determining whether they are natural or connected to human activities. They are also used to challenge and correct climate models, which are mostly based on the same theories used in weather forecast models.

This whole system of observation, theory and prediction is tested daily in forecast models and almost continuously in climate models. So, if you have no faith in the predictive capability of climate models, you should also discard your faith in weather forecasts and any other predictions based on Newtonian mechanics.

The earth has warmed nearly 0.8 degrees Celsius over the last century and we are confident that the biggest factor in this increase is the release of carbon dioxide from fossil fuel burning. It is almost certain that we will see a rise of two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) before 2100, and a three-degree rise (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) or higher is a possibility. The impacts over such a short period would be huge. The longer we put off corrective action, the more disruptive the outcome is likely to be.

It is my pleasure and duty as a scientist and civil servant to discuss the challenge of climate change with elected officials. My colleagues and I do our best to transmit what we know and what we think is likely to happen.

The facts and accepted theories are fundamental to understanding climate change, and they are too important to get wrong or trivialize. Some difficult decisions lie ahead for us humans. We should debate our options armed with the best information and ideas that science can provide.
~~~~~~~
Piers J. Sellers is the acting director of earth science at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/opinion/wobbling-on-climate-change.html

Image

US Representative Steve Stockman R-Texas 36th District
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby fruhmenschen » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:03 pm

Thu, 2014-10-30 17:00CHRIS ROSE
Chris Rose's picture
World’s Major Banks Poured Over $80 Billion into Coal Last Year Alone


http://desmogblog.com/2014/10/30/world- ... year-alone



At least $83 billion USD in financing was provided to 65 coal mining and energy companies last year by 92 of the world’s leading commercial banks, according to a Dutch report published Wednesday.

Leading banks provided $500 billion in financing for the coal industry through 2,283 lending and underwriting transactions between 2005 and April 2014, said the report Banking on Coal 2014, which was released by BankTrack in Nijmegen.

The top 20 financiers provided 73 per cent of this amount alone, added the report, released just days ahead of the publication of the fifth United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPC
fruhmenschen
 
Posts: 5977
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 181 guests