Women of the world, take over

[theeKultleeder]

Jesus' teachings are related to psychological warfare.

Would you mind starting a thread on Jesus and psy war? Maybe religion in general and it's role in control, or liberation from it?

[theeKultleeder]

Everything IS natural selection. It's not a male or female thing, either. Men select for certain attributes in women and vice versa. And, indeed, man does so collectively in animals, whether through breeding or climate change. It's the marketplace of genes.

Not when the standard of beauty is determined by consumer culture and men are conditioned to select trophy wives. (Most of the trophy takers have a certain psychological profile, IMO.)

Call it "artificial selection" - it's like choosing Coca-Cola over water!

[theeKultleeder]

If you went around spouting this kind of fanatical banter about Zionists, Jews and men, in America, that you do in Egypt, your children would probably be taken away from you and you would be put somewhere so that you could receive the help you desperately need.

It might be that Egyptian men are caught up in a primitive macho mindset that other macho cultures with deep religious tensions are. Alice sounds like a super mother, Nemo, I'm sure she would give even you hugs until you settled down.

[John E. Nemo]

Jeff, please stop Nemo from posting in this thread. Thanks.

I can't do that and I don't think it would be a good precedent if I could, but I will suggest these three things, because I don't want to lock this thread, and I'd like to see it stay on topic with some civility.

Jeff says no to censorship and yes to free thinking.
Let's be like Jeff, people.

1. Nemo, I think the subject of Gloria Steinem and the CIA deserves its own thread. I'd encourage you to start one.

Did that many moons ago and the thread got shut down when I started mentioning how Susan B, Anthony made racist remarks and how Planned Parenthood was originally a racist eugenics program.

People do NOT like having their sacred cows slaughtered.
(which is sad, because, as Abbie Hoffman once pointed out, they make the best hamburgers.)

Also, this entire thread was started with a sexist agenda, which is hardly de rigeur for RI.
If one were to substitute racist slander and stereotypes for gender-based slander and stereotypes in some of the statements made in this thread, it would be closed immediately.

[John E. Nemo]

If you went around spouting this kind of fanatical banter about Zionists, Jews and men, in America, that you do in Egypt, your children would probably be taken away from you and you would be put somewhere so that you could receive the help you desperately need.

It might be that Egyptian men are caught up in a primitive macho mindset that other macho cultures with deep religious tensions are. Alice sounds like a super mother, Nemo, I'm sure she would give even you hugs until you settled down.

I'm sure she'd literally hug the life out of me, given the chance.

It might be that the men aren't the only ones caught up in primitive mindsets, o ye kultie, of the nose of brown.

[FourthBase]

Since we don't have an ignore button...
I'll just have to pretend we do.
Everyone else here should, too.

Reminder y'all, that's just a exhortation, but it's a really good one IMO.

[AlanStrangis]

Jumping in kind of late... but I think John and others who are disagreeing (to different degrees) with FB's fundamental idea are raising good points.

Premise - "women are THE key..."
Counter argument - "PEOPLE are the key"

Now PEOPLE being the key to change I can agree with, because when I think of the women who have had political power in Western democrazies (esp. N. America), I think their track record is maybe marginally better than men.

That and that Nemo's comment about women, SUVs and Walmart strikes me as anecdotally accurate. Out of the few people I know who own SUVs (as primary or 2 car familes), it was the woman who wanted it in every case, to which the man was opposed. I know this because in each case it was stated outright (after I mocked them for buying earth killers in a friendly manner). When it comes to social consciousness, women and men are about tied, from my experience....

Anyhow...

A number of pages earlier AlicetheKurious said (amongst other things)...

Behold the world that violence has made.

It's an increasingly ugly, dangerous world, and we are rational enough to notice that our own extinction is looming ever closer. As violence begets violence, the wheel is spinning faster and faster as we become more technologically advanced.

The question is therefore: in order to save ourselves from hurtling towards our own annihilation, is it possible to eliminate violence as the main factor in human evolution? If so, how?

That's the start to an interesting tangent about HOW to realize non-violent revolution, and putting one sex ahead of the other, minimizing the INDIVIDUAL contribution strikes me as divisive, sexist and counter productive.

Because ultimately, I'm all for a non-violent revolution, and I'm not QUITE cynical enough yet to think it impossible.

PS: but if someone is up for some pitchforks and torches to storm the castle, I'll not only pencil it in, but blog about it, and set up an event in Facebook.

[John E. Nemo]

Liitle boys are taught NOT to hit girls.
The converse is NOT happening.

This is where gender-based hate is leading us.........

http://www.canadiancrc.com/Laurie_Coutu ... e_Bias.htm

Anti-Male Bias and Abuse of Boys as a Fad

This webpage published with thanks to the volunteer efforts of Laurie A. Couture, M.Ed, LMHC 2004

Laurie A. Couture 's website is www.childadvocate.org







For the past five years, the feminist-promoted trend of "girl power" has gradually evolved into what has now become a conceited, self-righteous pop-culture fad of hatred towards boys. Recently, the David and Goliath T-shirt Companys "Boys are Stupid" line of T-shirts and merchandise has gained popularity with girls, making a fashion statement out of promoting hatred, sexism and abuse against boys- in the name of "fun" and humor.

Despite the pervasive popularity of male bashing and boy-neglect in the past decade, men have been largely silent in demanding and end to this reactive sexism. Corporations are cashing in on this opportunity. However, with the arrival of the David and Goliath "Boys are Stupid" product line, male activists such as Glenn Sacks, as well as women and girls, have been demanding that stores immediately cease carrying these offensive products. Several chain stores have complied, including Claire's and Bon Macys. However, David and Goliath itself remains firm that the shirts are their biggest sellers, and will not be pulled from production.

The anti-male radical feminism of this decade has strayed embarrassingly far from the feminism of the 1960s, which sought to promote equality between two equally valuable sexes. Unfortunately, by the pendulum swinging so far to the other side, we are now creating a hostile, hateful social climate for little boys and are promoting more derision and differences between the sexes-- certainly the opposite of fostering respect for one another. Girls are being taught the wrong message, also- that in order to build up their self esteems they must be hateful, aggressive and disrespectful towards boys. Isnt this creating the very sort of inhumane, chauvinistic behavior that the 60s feminists wanted to abolish?

[theeKultleeder]

I got pissed off in elementary school when the teacher could make no reasonable arguments as to why girls were allowed to wear hats in class and boys were not.

I got over it.

(BTW it's kind of nice to have the not-so-friendly John Nemo back!)

[FourthBase]

Jumping in kind of late... but I think John and others who are disagreeing (to different degrees) with FB's fundamental idea are raising good points.

Premise - "women are THE key..."
Counter argument - "PEOPLE are the key"

Okay, then women are the key within the key.

Now PEOPLE being the key to change I can agree with, because when I think of the women who have had political power in Western democrazies (esp. N. America), I think their track record is maybe marginally better than men.

Again, most of the women who've had major political power in the West belong to a whole 'nother subset of characteristics; they are exceptions; they are power elite first women second.

That and that Nemo's comment about women, SUVs and Walmart strikes me as anecdotally accurate. Out of the few people I know who own SUVs (as primary or 2 car familes), it was the woman who wanted it in every case, to which the man was opposed. I know this because in each case it was stated outright (after I mocked them for buying earth killers in a friendly manner). When it comes to social consciousness, women and men are about tied, from my experience....

Anyhow...

Even if women are the "force behind SUV purchases" and a large portion of them support the Republican party and on and on, you're talking about the consequence of social conditioning, marketing, consumer mentality. What I have been talking about is their nature, beneath all that.

A number of pages earlier AlicetheKurious said (amongst other things)...

Behold the world that violence has made.

It's an increasingly ugly, dangerous world, and we are rational enough to notice that our own extinction is looming ever closer. As violence begets violence, the wheel is spinning faster and faster as we become more technologically advanced.

The question is therefore: in order to save ourselves from hurtling towards our own annihilation, is it possible to eliminate violence as the main factor in human evolution? If so, how?

That's the start to an interesting tangent about HOW to realize non-violent revolution, and putting one sex ahead of the other, minimizing the INDIVIDUAL contribution strikes me as divisive, sexist and counter productive.

The thrust of my original premise isn't that men are bad, or women are great. It's that women are more moral than men. It's a comparative premise. I'm saying the odds are better with women. There is also, however, the absolutely unique power that women possess reproductively, which cannot be minimized. Although, I guess enlightened men could try to be more selective with their mating choices, too -- e.g., if Jenna Bush wanted to have my baby and I impregnated her, I would be just as complicit in the proliferation of evil assholeness as a good woman who let a Bush boy knock her up. Thing is, as TKL might say (?) the portal belongs to the women -- it creates a unique dynamic. I could theoretically make up for a Jenna Bush baby in a week by impregnating 20 different progressive feminists. Also, if Jenna Bush put her hand on my crotch all bets are probably off -- maybe it's just me, but I think man's treshhold for upholding principles in the face of hot sex is magnitudes lower. So I don't trust men to do it. And again, I think women are generally more moral.

Because ultimately, I'm all for a non-violent revolution, and I'm not QUITE cynical enough yet to think it impossible.

Here here! That's a great idea for a thread.

PS: but if someone is up for some pitchforks and torches to storm the castle, I'll not only pencil it in, but blog about it, and set up an event in Facebook.

Eh. Maybe if we outnumbered them a thousand-fold.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Liitle boys are taught NOT to hit girls.
The converse is NOT happening.

J.E.N., you are partly right. You are pointing at some culture war goings on but you are playing right into the agit-prop that is designed to make gender war a muddled vendetta ala the cliched Hatfields vs the McCoys.

Go back up thread to where I wrote about how feminism was feared and then cleverly weaponized into yet another agit-prop device.

Gloria Steinem IS CIA all the way but that is because fascism fears feminism and put their horse in the race to mislead it.

So don't dismiss feminism as a plot. That would be like saying that civil rights movement was a plot just because it was COINTELPROed.

on edit: Cross-posting from the other gender thread-

Anyway....fascism uses law of the jungle social Darwinism as its template.
The larger male animal in a family is the invoked 'proof' of right makes right as God's way. This model is used to justify power dominance and social norms.

Declassified OSS documents show the anthropological and sociological analysis methods applied to a nation to determine how best to reinforce what is desired and discourage what isn't.

The same analysis was applied to this nation and became the whole Father Knows Best theme.
This was the model adopted by the CIA's Psychological Strategy Board after WWII to bolster civilian unit cohesion around authority and militarism, The Just Father.

Like President General Ike.
Like Andy Griffith as the peace officer of Mayberry.
This is why Disney was all Fred McMurray all the time for ages.
And why Walter Cronkite ran the country.
And why Sheriff Raygun was used to quell Vietnam Syndrome.
And why Dubya was given that stupid line about being "the decider."

etc.

Keeping men from being influenced by women requires discrediting women with polarized gender identity. 'Don't be a sissy.'

This helps keep young men still proving their manhood and available for recruiting so they don't get hooked up in a relationship and caring for kids.

When the recruiting gets tough, the gender war ramps up.
The movie 'Wild Hogs' with four men away from wives wearing leather and riding Harleys was a classic gender identity recruiting device.

Keeping men and women misunderstanding each other is a National inSecurity project.
Women are led to believe that male sexuality is near-rape all the time.
Feminists who rage against porn are promoted because of the agit-prop value and the diversion away from the really effective psy-ops that creates violence against women, WARnography.

Violence in cartoons, videos, TV, and movies is what causes violence, not pictures of nekkid folks.

I think I've read Robert Jensen attack pornography and he doesn't get that WARnography is the problem either.

[John E. Nemo]

Jumping in kind of late... but I think John and others who are disagreeing (to different degrees) with FB's fundamental idea are raising good points.

Premise - "women are THE key..."
Counter argument - "PEOPLE are the key"

Okay, then women are the key within the key.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_the_Great

Among the many crimes laid at Catherine's door the murder of Tsar Ivan VI of Russia stands out. Rumor said that Catherine had backed a plan by Vasily Mirovich to pretend to liberate the former Emperor. Whatever the plan, his gaolers killed Ivan VI, and the authorities arrested and later executed Mirovich.

Catherine played a part in the death of another pretender to the throne, Princess Tarakanova, who represented herself as Elizabeth's daughter by Alexis Razumovsky. The Empress dispatched Alexey Orlov to Italy, where he managed to seduce and capture Tarakanova. When brought to Russia, Tarakanova went to prison in the Peter and Paul Fortress, where she died of tuberculosis.

While Catherine probably had no direct role in the murder of her own husband, Peter III, she did nothing to punish those responsible for the crime and even promoted them.

Catherine the Great behaved harshly to her son Paul. In her memoirs, Catherine indicated that her first lover, Sergei Saltykov, had fathered Paul, but Paul physically resembled her husband, Peter. She sequestered from the court her illegitimate son by Grigori Orlov, Alexis Bobrinskoy (later created Count Bobrinskoy by Paul). It seems highly probable that she intended to exclude Paul from the succession, and to leave the crown to her eldest grandson Alexander, afterwards the emperor Alexander I. Her harshness to Paul stemmed probably as much from political distrust as from what she saw of his character. Whatever Catherine's other activities, she emphatically functioned as a sovereign and as a politician, guided in the last resort by interests of state. Keeping Paul in a state of semi-captivity in Gatchina and Pavlovsk, she resolved not to allow her son to dispute or to share in her authority.

In spite of her image as an "enlightened despot", Catherine abandoned attempts to lighten the burden of peasant serfs after the Pugachev Rebellion of 1773-75. The degree of her growing intolerance became evident in her treatment of Radishchev.(Catherine the Great read the work, viewed Radishchev's calls for reform as evidence of Jacobin-style radicalism, and ordered copies of the text confiscated and destroyed. He was arrested, tortured and condemned to death. This sentence was later commuted to exile to Siberia.)

Now PEOPLE being the key to change I can agree with, because when I think of the women who have had political power in Western democrazies (esp. N. America), I think their track record is maybe marginally better than men.

Again, most of the women who've had major political power in the West belong to a whole 'nother subset of characteristics; they are exceptions; they are power elite first women second.

That and that Nemo's comment about women, SUVs and Walmart strikes me as anecdotally accurate. Out of the few people I know who own SUVs (as primary or 2 car familes), it was the woman who wanted it in every case, to which the man was opposed. I know this because in each case it was stated outright (after I mocked them for buying earth killers in a friendly manner). When it comes to social consciousness, women and men are about tied, from my experience....

Anyhow...

Even if women are the "force behind SUV purchases" and a large portion of them support the Republican party and on and on, you're talking about the consequence of social conditioning, marketing, consumer mentality. What I have been talking about is their nature, beneath all that.

So, women are now weak-willed, brainwashed shills incapable of independent thought.
Good luck selling that at the local PTA or NOW meeting.

A number of pages earlier AlicetheKurious said (amongst other things)...

Behold the world that violence has made.

It's an increasingly ugly, dangerous world, and we are rational enough to notice that our own extinction is looming ever closer. As violence begets violence, the wheel is spinning faster and faster as we become more technologically advanced.

The question is therefore: in order to save ourselves from hurtling towards our own annihilation, is it possible to eliminate violence as the main factor in human evolution? If so, how?

That's the start to an interesting tangent about HOW to realize non-violent revolution, and putting one sex ahead of the other, minimizing the INDIVIDUAL contribution strikes me as divisive, sexist and counter productive.

The thrust of my original premise isn't that men are bad, or women are great. It's that women are more moral than men. It's a comparative premise. I'm saying the odds are better with women. There is also, however, the absolutely unique power that women possess reproductively, which cannot be minimized. Although, I guess enlightened men could try to be more selective with their mating choices, too -- e.g., if Jenna Bush wanted to have my baby and I impregnated her, I would be just as complicit in the proliferation of evil assholeness as a good woman who let a Bush boy knock her up. Thing is, as TKL might say (?) the portal belongs to the women -- it creates a unique dynamic. I could theoretically make up for a Jenna Bush baby in a week by impregnating 20 different progressive feminists. Also, if Jenna Bush put her hand on my crotch all bets are probably off -- maybe it's just me, but I think man's treshhold for upholding principles in the face of hot sex is magnitudes lower. So I don't trust men to do it. And again, I think women are generally more moral.

Yet, you provide NO PROOF OF THIS.
All you have is your gender bias, that has been shown to be completely flawed.

Here's some more reality to counter your fairy tales, another woman who tortured and killed women, and was taught to do so by a woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bathory

Countess Erzsébet Báthory (Báthory Erzsébet in Hungarian, Alžbeta Bátoriová(-Nádasdy) in Slovak, Elżbieta Batory in Polish, August 7(?), 1560 – August 21, 1614), was a Hungarian countess from the renowned Báthory family.

She is considered the most infamous serial killer in Hungarian and Slovak history and is remembered as the Bloody Lady of Čachtice, after the castle near Trenčín, in Royal Hungary, in present-day Slovakia, where she spent most of her life.

After her husband's death, she and her four alleged collaborators were accused of torturing and killing dozens of girls and young women.

In addition to the defendants, several people were named for supplying Elizabeth Báthory with young women. The girls had been procured either by deception or by force.

A little-known figure named Anna Darvulia, possibly a local, was also rumoured to have influenced much of Báthory's early sadistic career, but apparently died at an earlier time.

The number of young women tortured and killed by Elizabeth Báthory is unknown, though it is often cited as being in the hundreds, between the years 1585 and 1610.

..

[FourthBase]

Imaginary ignore button off...

So, women are now weak-willed, brainwashed shills incapable of independent thought.

No more or less than men are.

[John E. Nemo]

Liitle boys are taught NOT to hit girls.
The converse is NOT happening.

J.E.N., you are partly right. You are pointing at some culture war goings on but you are playing right into the agit-prop that is designed to make gender war a muddled vendetta ala the cliched Hatfields vs the McCoys.

Go back up thread to where I wrote about how feminism was feared and then cleverly weaponized into yet another agit-prop device.

Gloria Steinem IS CIA all the way but that is because fascism fears feminism and put their horse in the race to mislead it.

So don't dismiss feminism as a plot. That would be like saying that civil rights movement was a plot just because it was COINTELPROed.

The fight for equality was everyone's fight during the civil rights movements.
The voices that fought for equality were quickly silenced.

Notice how they didn't kill Malcolm X until he preached equality?

Once they were able to split the issues, they sent their COINTELPRO and CIA's CHAOS operatives into each movement and got them to kill each other.

Read what happened to the Panthers.
Read how the SDS were radicalized into The Weather Underground and started a bombing campaign that turned their supporters against them.

Read how groups like the Red Stockings were calling for the death of all males, in their "slaughter the pigs" manifestos.
Many womyn were turned off by this and dropped out.

Now, we have movements like the Open Bleeders, which are womyn who refuse to use "male" inventions like tampons and instead menstruate openly.
All that does is make them look ridiculous and turn more moderate people off to the message.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE MEANS POWER TO ALL THE PEOPLE !!!!!
SEXISM IS FASCISM!!!!

[populistindependent]

Keeping men and women misunderstanding each other is a National inSecurity project.

I like that Hugh. Much truth in that statement.