Anthrax suspect dies in apparent suicide

[hava1]

a whole right wing machine that seeks to cripple the left into inaction by blackmailing them so that they can install a Nazi in the white house.


yes. but it also takes two. the blackmailed are not very courageous are they ? and why can't they keep their pants zipped ?
the blackmail drill has been perfected in the cold war (against the so called communist devil), and for lack of enemies is now used inwards against rivals. i am always amazed at the lack of integrity or courage of the blackmailed...(usually the "mob" be it left or right wing, turn against the sex slaves in the story or some other deflection to the weakest link).
which i read as a deeper shortcoming, not just a tactical defeat in the political gameboard.

[seemslikeadream]

NYTimes 8/9/08 - Anthrax Case Had Costs for Suspects

By WILLIAM J. BROAD and SCOTT SHANE

Published: August 9, 2008

When Perry Mikesell, a microbiologist in Ohio, came under suspicion as the anthrax attacker, he began drinking heavily, family members say, and soon died. After a doctor in New York drew the interest of the F.B.I., his marriage fell apart and his practice suffered, his lawyer says. And after two Pakistani brothers in Pennsylvania were briefly under scrutiny, they eventually had to leave the country to find work.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation’s path to Bruce E. Ivins, the Army scientist who committed suicide late last month as federal officials moved closer to indicting him for the 2001 anthrax letter attacks, was long and tortuous. Before the investigators settled on Dr. Ivins — and his defenders still say the F.B.I. hounded an innocent man to death — they had focused on Steven J. Hatfill, another Army researcher, for several years.

But along the way, scores of others — terrorists, foreigners, academic researchers, biowarfare specialists and an elite group of Army scientists working behind high fences and barbed wire — drew the interest of the investigators. For some of them the cost was high: lost jobs, canceled visas, broken marriages, frayed friendships.

At the Army biodefense laboratory in Frederick, Md., where Dr. Ivins worked, the inquiry became a murder mystery, the cast composed of top scientists eyeing one another warily over vials of lethal pathogens.

“It was not pleasant,” recalled Jeffrey J. Adamovicz, a former official there. “There was a general sense of paranoia that they were going to get somebody no matter what.”

continues at link
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/washi ... thrax.html

[chiggerbit]

"...At the Army biodefense laboratory in Frederick, Md., where Dr. Ivins worked, the inquiry became a murder mystery, the cast composed of top scientists eyeing one another warily over vials of lethal pathogens...."

There were some very serious divisions and personality conflicts within that lab for nearly a decade before the 2001 anthrax attacks, which must have contributed to difficulites in investigating the crime.

[stickdog99]

Interesting that at the time Perry Mikesell drank himself to death in 2002, they didn't think the nation was ready for them to blame a US lone nut scientist. Or maybe Mikesell actually had something to do with this.

Ivins' lawyer is interviewed here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... 9#93423750

[timetunneler]

a whole right wing machine that seeks to cripple the left into inaction by blackmailing them so that they can install a Nazi in the white house.


yes. but it also takes two. the blackmailed are not very courageous are they ? and why can't they keep their pants zipped ?
the blackmail drill has been perfected in the cold war (against the so called communist devil), and for lack of enemies is now used inwards against rivals. i am always amazed at the lack of integrity or courage of the blackmailed...(usually the "mob" be it left or right wing, turn against the sex slaves in the story or some other deflection to the weakest link).
which i read as a deeper shortcoming, not just a tactical defeat in the political gameboard.

Very true. Still, most people don't want the government messing around in their love lives and sex lives. Since all people are imperfect,.by allowing factions of the government to continue blackmailing people and not busting this thing wide open you ensure two things:

1. that the worst sorts of liars, sociopaths and cons are at the top of the political hierachy

2. that those allowed into that political system will be heavily controlled by the blackmailers running the system

All of us know that the Right-winger sexual indiscretions probably go way beyond cheating on their wives. Did National Enquirer dig up any dirt on Mark Foley? Florida has a goldmine of dirt to dig up on Republicans if the national enquirer was interested. But apparently they work for the right. What about all of those black faces I saw recently in the news in South Florida re: Oxycontin. Did Rush Limbaugh ever do anytime for his Ocycontin use? Did the National Enquirer ever ask WHY Limbaugh was in the Dominican Republic with boner pills? Was it for adult prostitutes or child prostitutes?

I harp on the blackmail angle all of the time because to be quite honest, i feel everything else is a waste of time if people can't come to the realization that your politicians are do-nothing politicians primarily because they are being blackmailed. Congress doesn't sit on its hands because it is confused. It is THREATENED. Threatened by blackmail, death, imprisonment, whatever. Nancy Pelosi DOES NOTHING because SHE IS BEING BLACKMAILED TO DO NOTHING. Doesn't necessarily mean the blackmail is sexual. Could be because she is corrupt some how or in fear... but somehow she is threatened into inaction.

Not just sex blackmail, but blackmail coming from the fact that the rightwing has a powerful Eye of Sauron spying apparatus to dig up dirt on everyone but themselves. I would guess that the National Enquirer is part of that apparatus. The dirt can be sexual or financial. So it's like a kind of king of the hill thing where no one can approach the hierarchy unless the extreme right wing can see they are compromised enough and able to be blackmailed. Nothing changes in the USA until people realize this is the game and overturn it.

Ivins is a Red Herring. He is one guy among many who has a dirty background and is likely being used by the extreme right wing to do their bidding. People should stop focusing on Ivin and uproot the hidden right wing terror network that probably has guys like Ivin in cells all over the country. (If Ivin is guilty that is... still not convinced of that)

The purpose of this extreme right wing network is clear. To create chaos and terror in the people of western countries so that they ask for greater security and install a fascist government. That is what all of this is about.

[compared2what?]

I now officially call anomaly on this story. I don't believe that after eight years of regurgitating the spin fed to them by various arms of the state, the Times and other outlets of its ilk have suddenly developed the ability to spot gaping holes in the story being fed to them, and swiftly to respond with original reporting derived from an independent investigation of the facts. Because that requires the intellectual flexibility to independently envision alternate scenarios, as well as the intellectual enterprise to figure out how to exclude or verify the details of any particular one of them -- not to mention the ability to turn on a dime and shake down the independently gathered brand new information until it settles into a comprehensible narrative format, suitable for presenting to the reading public.

That shit's both very onerous and very time-consuming to do under any circumstances, even for the few people who do it regularly, among whom the Times reporters are not. Yet here are William Broad and Scott Shane, able to pull one vivid and trenchant example of investigative malfeasance after another out of the darkness like a string of colored handkerchiefs from a stage magician's breast pocket. The former of whom co-authored a book on the threat of biochemical weapons with Judith Miller. (Dealing with whom reputedly worked his last nerve, so it could be regarded as a simple explanation for what would otherwise be his startling ability to get so intimately well-sourced so quickly, I should add out of scrupulous impartiality. Though that's not how I personally regard it. And even if I did, it still wouldn't explain why the sources are so suddenly willing to bite the hand that sometimes smites them by driving them to drink and suicide, nor why the Times is equally suddenly both willing and able to report the obviously ugly truth on A-1 in a matter of days, when that typically takes them months or years, assuming that they ever get around to it.)

Anomalies do occur for no particular reason from time to time, of course. Nevertheless. Just as a matter of internal institutional law, no one rises to Broad's level of eminence at that place unless they have an exceptional gift for following orders, both from within and without, while acting as if (and possibly believing) none had ever been given. So while I'm not totally dismissing the possibility of chance anomaly, I do think there are reasonable grounds to float alternative hypotheses. The first two that occur to me are:

(a) From the get on this story, the administration has intentionally been showing a little leg wrt just how brutal a police state they've been running, since they're on their way out the door and there are probably more than a few potential Daniel Ellsbergs out there who may be in need of a timely reminder; or

(b) Karl Rove is in so much legal jeopardy that Robert Luskin has not only put him on the bench, but chained him to it and forcibly gagged him, a la Bobby Seale in the Chicago Seven trial, and without him (and, to a lesser extent, with Miers and Gonzales similarly sidelined) they can't field a team that's capable of anything more than such a Keystone Kover-up that even the Times can't fail to perceive it.

If it were just McLatchy, I'd be less suspicious. But no one's going for this PR roll-out, not even Newsweek. And since when is that the world we live in?

[seemslikeadream]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... id=3772169


AntiFascist (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-10-08 04:14 PM
Original message
Former Dugway Scientist Tells All
http://www.project-112shad-fdn.com/News_96.htm



Former Dugway scientist tells all
Tooele Transcript Bulletin Online Edition
August 7, 2003

by Michael Rigert
Staff Writer

...

Bienek, who now resides in Huntsville, Utah, told the Tooele Transcript-Bulletin of several instances where supervisors disregarded security protocols, lied in reports or presented conflicting information about anthrax and other weapons-grade germs and chemicals during his tenure at Dugway from 1989 to 1993.

“In one meeting, I was asked to sign a letter being sent to Governor Bangerter and the state of Utah which said that we weren’t producing any more than laboratory samples of anthrax. About five to 10 milliliters. After I signed the letter, they said ‘we want to produce 30 gallons of anthrax.’ I said, ‘you can’t lie to the governor and the people of Utah like that.’ Either we tell the governor about the 30 gallons or we tell them nothing,” Bienek said.

...

Dr. Bienek said organizational corruption flourished at Dugway under a system of cronyism where violations of policy were covered up, employees who didn’t go along with lies were removed and people who cow-towed to the corruption were promoted.

“I kept finding lies and discrepancies in meetings and written documents,” Bienek said.
When his supervisor and director of the Baker Lab learned Bienek wasn’t going to go along with the lies, Bienek said the director did everything in his power to silence him and get him off the base.



Much more at the link.

This may go much deeper than the Ivins case. What was all this anthrax going to be used for?

[chiggerbit]

This may go much deeper than the Ivins case.

I'm inclined to agree with that, sld. Furthermore, I'd be willing to bet that there were more than one and quite possibly unrelated conspiracies going on, off and on, for years.

[Nordic]

I am completely disgusted by the Washington Post today, and their article on the "therapist" who is so obviously smearing this guy.

It's like they're being a PR machine for the FBI.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00071.html

After Anthrax Scientist's Threats, Counselor Faced a Hard Choice

That's the headline, above.

It comes complete with a flattering photo of this ex-druggie, ex-biker skank.

I don't believe a WORD out of this woman's mouth, yet the Washington Post is giving her the full "hero/martyr/victim" treatment.

Absolutely disgusting.

If the FBI was trying to bribe Ivin's own SON, with 2.5 million and a sports car, you can bet your booty they also bribed this loser. A little odd she's the ONLY one who has had any "evidence", anything incriminating about this guy. His own co-workers do not accept any of this.[/url]

[timetunneler]

I am completely disgusted by the Washington Post today, and their article on the "therapist" who is so obviously smearing this guy.

It's like they're being a PR machine for the FBI.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00071.html

After Anthrax Scientist's Threats, Counselor Faced a Hard Choice

That's the headline, above.

It comes complete with a flattering photo of this ex-druggie, ex-biker skank.

I don't believe a WORD out of this woman's mouth, yet the Washington Post is giving her the full "hero/martyr/victim" treatment.

Absolutely disgusting.

If the FBI was trying to bribe Ivin's own SON, with 2.5 million and a sports car, you can bet your booty they also bribed this loser. A little odd she's the ONLY one who has had any "evidence", anything incriminating about this guy. His own co-workers do not accept any of this.[/url]

Sorry for prejudging... but... Blonde hair. Double D's, lives in Maryland, shady past, with PTB smokecreen = Spy?

[chiggerbit]

It comes complete with a flattering photo of this ex-druggie, ex-biker skank.

I don't believe a WORD out of this woman's mouth...

Yikes, Nordic, do you realize how judgmental that sounds?

...A little odd she's the ONLY one who has had any "evidence", anything incriminating about this guy. His own co-workers do not accept any of this...

There appear to be quite a few witnesses, such as the people in this session...

Her counseling client, Bruce E. Ivins, had announced in a group therapy session the evening before that he was a suspect in the 2001 anthrax investigation and had a plan to kill his co-workers.

...but with all the hoopla and snotty opinions being papered all over the internet about Duley, can you imagine why the people in this group session don't come forward publicly?

Personally, I don't think anyone has enough information to jump to judgment yet, one way or the other. But, depending on the laws of her state, this woman may have had a legal obligation to make her report if he was making statements as she claimed.

[hava1]

a whole right wing machine that seeks to cripple the left into inaction by blackmailing them so that they can install a Nazi in the white house.


yes. but it also takes two. the blackmailed are not very courageous are they ? and why can't they keep their pants zipped ?
the blackmail drill has been perfected in the cold war (against the so called communist devil), and for lack of enemies is now used inwards against rivals. i am always amazed at the lack of integrity or courage of the blackmailed...(usually the "mob" be it left or right wing, turn against the sex slaves in the story or some other deflection to the weakest link).
which i read as a deeper shortcoming, not just a tactical defeat in the political gameboard.

Very true. Still, most people don't want the government messing around in their love lives and sex lives. Since all people are imperfect,.by allowing factions of the government to continue blackmailing people and not busting this thing wide open you ensure two things:

1. that the worst sorts of liars, sociopaths and cons are at the top of the political hierachy

2. that those allowed into that political system will be heavily controlled by the blackmailers running the system

All of us know that the Right-winger sexual indiscretions probably go way beyond cheating on their wives. Did National Enquirer dig up any dirt on Mark Foley? Florida has a goldmine of dirt to dig up on Republicans if the national enquirer was interested. But apparently they work for the right. What about all of those black faces I saw recently in the news in South Florida re: Oxycontin. Did Rush Limbaugh ever do anytime for his Ocycontin use? Did the National Enquirer ever ask WHY Limbaugh was in the Dominican Republic with boner pills? Was it for adult prostitutes or child prostitutes?

I harp on the blackmail angle all of the time because to be quite honest, i feel everything else is a waste of time if people can't come to the realization that your politicians are do-nothing politicians primarily because they are being blackmailed. Congress doesn't sit on its hands because it is confused. It is THREATENED. Threatened by blackmail, death, imprisonment, whatever. Nancy Pelosi DOES NOTHING because SHE IS BEING BLACKMAILED TO DO NOTHING. Doesn't necessarily mean the blackmail is sexual. Could be because she is corrupt some how or in fear... but somehow she is threatened into inaction.

Not just sex blackmail, but blackmail coming from the fact that the rightwing has a powerful Eye of Sauron spying apparatus to dig up dirt on everyone but themselves. I would guess that the National Enquirer is part of that apparatus. The dirt can be sexual or financial. So it's like a kind of king of the hill thing where no one can approach the hierarchy unless the extreme right wing can see they are compromised enough and able to be blackmailed. Nothing changes in the USA until people realize this is the game and overturn it.

Ivins is a Red Herring. He is one guy among many who has a dirty background and is likely being used by the extreme right wing to do their bidding. People should stop focusing on Ivin and uproot the hidden right wing terror network that probably has guys like Ivin in cells all over the country. (If Ivin is guilty that is... still not convinced of that)

The purpose of this extreme right wing network is clear. To create chaos and terror in the people of western countries so that they ask for greater security and install a fascist government. That is what all of this is about.

agree. but to convince the public that the system runs this way you can;t skip the messy part of proving that. Its very hard to get to that stage, for several reasons. One, as I mentioned, the blackmailed are usually cowards. two, the instruments (well, at least in sex cases) are rarely aware of their role. it takes a while for the chips to fall. Usually, in real time, both political parties have more pressing matters than to pursue the matter thoroughly, and they strike some deal while fully cooperating in sweeping and gagging the facts.

[compared2what?]

Can anyone out there hear me? I'd practically bet my non-existent bottom dollar that for whatever reason, the government has been writing this story in order to provoke exactly the kind of response they're getting here on this thread, as well as from the public at large right from the start. I don't know the reason. But if it's theirs, it's not one that benefits us. I base this conviction on what I know too well is the near-impossibility of the press coming up with what they're reporting in any way other than having it fed to them.

I think that's worth noting, at least.

[justdrew]

Can anyone out there hear me? I'd practically bet my non-existent bottom dollar that for whatever reason, the government has been writing this story in order to provoke exactly the kind of response they're getting here on this thread, as well as from the public at large right from the start. I don't know the reason. But if it's theirs, it's not one that benefits us. I base this conviction on what I know too well is the near-impossibility of the press coming up with what they're reporting in any way other than having it fed to them.

I think that's worth noting, at least.

they MAY be getting ready to "fall on their face" and spin it as just another agency screw-up, a few token heads rolling - with the addendum that, "now we'll never be able to know who was really behind it."

the lack of choir harmony may also be due to some serious factionalism within 'the government' in terms of how to move forward.

[stickdog99]

It comes complete with a flattering photo of this ex-druggie, ex-biker skank.

I don't believe a WORD out of this woman's mouth...

Yikes, Nordic, do you realize how judgmental that sounds?

...A little odd she's the ONLY one who has had any "evidence", anything incriminating about this guy. His own co-workers do not accept any of this...

There appear to be quite a few witnesses, such as the people in this session...

Her counseling client, Bruce E. Ivins, had announced in a group therapy session the evening before that he was a suspect in the 2001 anthrax investigation and had a plan to kill his co-workers.

...but with all the hoopla and snotty opinions being papered all over the internet about Duley, can you imagine why the people in this group session don't come forward publicly?

Personally, I don't think anyone has enough information to jump to judgment yet, one way or the other. But, depending on the laws of her state, this woman may have had a legal obligation to make her report if he was making statements as she claimed.

I can't believe you are still serious about this. What is your evidence that Ivins even could have pulled this off alone, much less that he did?

Glenn Greenwald nails the FBI to the wall: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald