Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:46 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:The Media consensus on Israel is collapsing
My Catbird Seat January 8, 2012 7

Across the political spectrum, once-taboo criticism is now common


I wish that this had happened back when it could have made a real difference. The cynical part of me wonders why it's only happening now, when Israel has exploited its dominance of the US to ethnically cleanse most of the West Bank, including Jerusalem, and populate it with hundreds of thousands of wacko, heavily-armed fanatics who couldn't care less what the goys think. And when the US has nearly outlived its usefulness to Israel anyway. The Iran thing is just the zionists trying to squeeze out the very last drop, but they're probably not getting that -- even if the spirit were willing, the flesh is weak, overstretched and worn out by the excesses of the past decade.

Still, I haven't given up hope, far from it. It's just that I long ago gave up hope that liberation for the Palestinians or the rest of us would come from the West. The revolutionary winds sweeping through the Arab world and beyond have the true potential, in my opinion, to be the ultimate game-changers. Israel's strength was never really its domination of the US government, but our weakness, an artificial weakness imposed upon us by our own corrupt, treasonous and stupid tyrants, whom we are now struggling mightily to throw into the dustbin of history. Then, and only then, will the illusion collapse, and things be shown in their true size. Israel is nothing, a terrible hoax, a scam for which we've all fallen for far too long.

I'm glad that you in the West are also starting to wake up out of your trance, not for our sake, but for yours. It's very late, maybe even too late, but hopefully something can be salvaged.


<sigh> Alice, when I read your last paragraph, I thought to myself that 'trance' is EXACTLY what we are in, in the West.

The NewsSpeak which I see politicians engage with the UK population is remarkable - there was one on tonight whose connection to real stub your toe in it reality seemed to have vanished - when facts were pointed out, he just kept being a Text-To-Speech converter. It was not the Goebbelsian propaganda of Bibi or the deadly oil-covered words of a Mandelson. It was not even telling porkies... What it was , was a communication that was a 'facsimile' of a conversation but it wasnt. It wasnt even hypnotic. It is actually quite difficult to focus on it to describe it, because doing so short-circuits my thinking. I cant remember the name but there is a psych phenomena of reacting by going into trance from information that of this type

GREEN IS THE FIRST WORD OF THIS SENTENCE COLORED RED

the lack of accountability, a focus on increasing the awareness of just how really shit everything is rather than doing anything about it.... and as a broader society, the West seems to be showing an effect that is like a multiplier... Genovese Effect(not acting thinking someone else will, maybe someone else is doing something) * Milgram Experiment (We do what we are told, regardless if we think it is crazy)

This case illustrates it exactly
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104358/Simon-Burgess-drowned-firemen-refused-wade-3ft-deep-lake-health-safety-rules.html

If some of these themes map over to challenging zionist domination of the media, it might indicate...

A minimum person sized structure to reduce the Genovese Effect.

An awareness of the messages you are being told to obey and a conscious refusal to obey them / accept the kind of existence they attempt to create over you. A Rosa Parks / White Rose mindset. (A "To NOT-DO" list is an idea I developed in business that might be useful here.

Perhaps above all, a focus on the autonomous Individual / Tiny 'cell' as the agent of change.

When Mohamed Bouazizi, he didnt coordinate with others, he refused to accept how he was being treated and he did it himself.

*edited for URL
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:59 am

Speaking of green...


Media Release: Israel ‘charity’ accused of racism suffers another blow
27 February 2012
Stop the JNF Campaign UK


The Jewish National Fund (JNF), a British charity implicated in human rights violations in Israel, received yet another blow when Green Party of England and Wales members voted overwhelmingly to support an international call for action against JNF practices in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, and to revoke its charity status in the UK.

Green Party member Deborah Fink, who is co-founder of Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods, moved the motion on Sunday. Fink alerted the conference to “JNF greenwash” and said that “the Green Party stands for environmental and social justice, the upholding of human rights, is against racism and is officially in solidarity with the Palestinian people who have called for this campaign. The JNF is a major impediment to realisation of Green Party policy on the Middle East, therefore the JNF should be condemned. As a charity, the JNF gets tax advantages, so through our taxes, we are subsidising injustice”. The motion passed with no one speaking in opposition and with only three people voting against.

The Green Party endorsement of the Stop the JNF Campaigns comes after similar motions were passed last year by the Scottish Green Party and Scottish Friends of the Earth, all repudiating the JNF’s claim to be an “environmental charity”. The JNF is known for establishing forests and parks over the remains of destroyed Palestinian villages. Last year the JNF lost high level political protection when David Cameron resigned as Honorary Patron, the first time in its 111 year history the serving British Prime Minister does not hold this position. Equally unprecedentedly, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg declined the JNF’s request to become Patrons when they became leaders of their parties.

Terry Gallogly, Green Party member and an organiser of the Stop the JNF Campaign in the UK, welcomed the decision this weekend,

“Our government has stood by for over sixty years doing nothing, or directly complicit in Israel’s violations of Palestinian rights. The JNF is a key tool of Israeli apartheid and ethnic cleansing, operating as a para-statal organisation with powers over land administration.

“This decision, along with similar positions already taken by civil society organisations such as the Iona Community and trade unions, is a message to the JNF that their days are numbered – we won’t tolerate their abuse of charity status in the UK to fund a system of land theft and racism against Palestinians.”

Campaigners believe that another sign of the JNF’s increasing difficulty is the sixty-four MPs who have signed an Early Day Motion stating there is just cause to consider the revocation of the JNF's charitable status.

END Link
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:22 am

In response to the OP: No, we do NOT give up. We're just getting started...

Judge throws out Israel-backed lawsuit against Olympia Food Co-op, upholds right to boycott
Submitted by Ali Abunimah on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 21:32

In a major setback for Israeli efforts to suppress the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement in the United States, a judge in Olympia, Washington today dismissed a lawsuit designed to force the Olympia Food Co-op to rescind its boycott of Israeli goods.

The judge ruled that the lawsuit, brought by opponents of the boycott, violated a Washington State law designed to prevent abusive lawsuits aimed at suppressing lawful public participation. The court said it would award the defendants attorneys’ fees, costs, and levy sanctions against the plaintiffs.


While the lawsuit was brought by several individuals against present and former members of the Olympia Food Co-op Board, it was planned in collusion with StandWithUs, a national anti-Palestinian organization, working with the Israeli government, an Electronic Intifada investigation revealed last September.
“SLAPP” lawsuit designed to chill free speech

The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), whose lawyers acted for the Olympia Food Co-op argued that the lawsuit was an example of “SLAPP” – Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation. In a statement this afternoon, CCR explained:

    SLAPPs are lawsuits that target the constitutional rights of free speech and petition in connection with an issue of public concern Although many cases that qualify as SLAPPs are without legal merit, they can nonetheless effectively achieve their primary purpose: to chill public debate on specific issues. Defending against a SLAPP requires substantial money, time, and legal resources, and can divert attention away from the public issue and intimidate and silence other speakers. Washington State’s Anti-SLAPP statute was enacted in 2010 to deter such lawsuits.

Today, Thurston County Superior Court Judge Thomas McPhee told a packed courtroom he agreed with that analysis and dismissed the lawsuit, ordering the StandWithUs-backed plaintiffs to pay court costs and legal fees.

The judge also also upheld the constitutionality of Washington’s anti-SLAPP law, which the plaintiffs had challenged, CCR noted. Each of the defendants in the case could be entitled to receive up to $10,000 from the plaintiffs in addition to legal fees.

“We are pleased the Court found this case to be what it is – an attempt to chill free speech on a matter of public concern. This sends a message to those trying to silence support of Palestinian human rights to think twice before they bring a lawsuit,” CCR quoted Maria LaHood, a senior staff attorney as saying.

BDS is a national movement, judge finds

In attempting to overturn the Olympia Food Co-op’s boycott of Israeli goods, the plaintiffs had argued that the Co-op could only observe “nationally-recognized” boycotts, and that BDS did not fit that description.

According to live tweets of the judge’s statement by Anna-Marie Murano, on behalf of the Palestine Freedom Project the judge found that BDS was “nationally recognized.” Link
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:15 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:In response to the OP: No, we do NOT give up. We're just getting started...

Judge throws out Israel-backed lawsuit against Olympia Food Co-op, upholds right to boycott
Submitted by Ali Abunimah on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 21:32

OK- "we"- let's call that poetic license.

The people involved with this important victory will want nothing to do with you in their movements and campaigns if you hold forth about "zionazis", "ZOG", House of Rothschild, or anything like that.

With very good reason...
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Peregrine » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:31 am

American Dream wrote:
AlicetheKurious wrote:In response to the OP: No, we do NOT give up. We're just getting started...

Judge throws out Israel-backed lawsuit against Olympia Food Co-op, upholds right to boycott
Submitted by Ali Abunimah on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 21:32

OK- "we"- let's call that poetic license.

The people involved with this important victory will want nothing to do with you in their movements and campaigns if you hold forth about "zionazis", "ZOG", House of Rothschild, or anything like that.

With very good reason...


AD, I really try & maintain a neutral ground when looking at things on the board, but you really tend to split hairs. You keep harping on a subject that, although important & not something to take lightly, really doesn't relate to the op & your tactics seem to stall the conversation in this particular thread. Just my two bits....
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:17 pm

.

Absolute bizarroland lawsuit! What was its nominal intent? To make a private group buy goods from a given country? Would there have been a judgement of how many oranges the coop would have been obligated to buy, and whether it was also obligated to buy goods from every other grountry? Obviously not. So it was to get the state to make them not announce the fact that they are not buying goods from Israel. In other words, as direct a violation of 1st Amendment as can be imagined.

The plaintiffs should be hit for ten times the court costs, payable to the co-op's political PR wing. Or if that doesn't hurt, for a chunk of their net worth, as a deterrent to such behavior.

.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:33 pm

JackRiddler wrote:.

Absolute bizarroland lawsuit! What was its nominal intent? To make a private group buy goods from a given country? Would there have been a judgement of how many oranges the coop would have been obligated to buy, and whether it was also obligated to buy goods from every other grountry? Obviously not. So it was to get the state to make them not announce the fact that they are not buying goods from Israel. In other words, as direct a violation of 1st Amendment as can be imagined.

The plaintiffs should be hit for ten times the court costs, payable to the co-op's political PR wing. Or if that doesn't hurt, for a chunk of their net worth, as a deterrent to such behavior.

.

StandWithUs- an odious and reactionary group in hardline support of the policies of the Israeli State- did this SLAPP suit (Strategic Lawsuit against Public Participation) nominally because they said the Olympia Food Co-op violated its own procedures in enacting a boycott of Israeli goods (3 specific products).

They worked on this with the active support and cooperation of Israeli officials from the Consulate and their line has always been that these BDS boycotts are instigated by "outside" organizers who use anti-democratic means to get what they want and leave "scars that don't heal" (divided communities) in their wake. This is really disingenuous because it was they themselves who did the most to polarize and create divisions.

Really, their purpose was the ongoing punishment of Olympia and its co-op, in order to discourage other communities from following their lead. It's not going to work in this case, although the contingent that is hawkish on Israel is still very mobilized...
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby slimmouse » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:41 pm

barracuda wrote:I thought I asked you politely not to do that. Some people apparently can't take a hint.

Take a day off.


Thanks for the ban Barracuda.

I used it to reflect on how some people can post reams of crap about nothing, whilst throwing in the vigorous by proxy defence of the empire, essentially acting as apologists for the mass murder in the Middle East, without fear of being duly called out and (IMHO) deservedly insulted for what they do. I say this since this is what transpires on many of these threads, with Nazis in every corner apparently

. OK the language is strong, but I dont think it hurts just as much as those bombs which suck the air from the lungs of the innocent and defenceless who will end up murdered by asphyxiation if not torn limb from limb. But of course ithats not worth anyone examining, or offering an opinion on the causes of this cos, you know them damn antismetic, right wing, left wing infiltrating, suspect liberals,ZOG believing, Icke following, Ron Paul supporting, fascistic Nazi types, who it would appear are in just about every alternative outlet that condemns the Appartheid warmongering empire driven madness that is the state of Israel.

Perhaps we need an AD sanctioned list of outlets for finding out about Israeli terror. I'll leave him to post the reliable sources. Im sure he knows of some that cant immediately be linked by "AD special proxy" to any of the above Neo nazis ? Like hell he cant.

Keep up the good work Barracuda.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:45 pm

American Dream wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:.

Absolute bizarroland lawsuit! What was its nominal intent? To make a private group buy goods from a given country? Would there have been a judgement of how many oranges the coop would have been obligated to buy, and whether it was also obligated to buy goods from every other grountry? Obviously not. So it was to get the state to make them not announce the fact that they are not buying goods from Israel. In other words, as direct a violation of 1st Amendment as can be imagined.

The plaintiffs should be hit for ten times the court costs, payable to the co-op's political PR wing. Or if that doesn't hurt, for a chunk of their net worth, as a deterrent to such behavior.

.

StandWithUs- an odious and reactionary group in hardline support of the policies of the Israeli State- did this SLAPP suit (Strategic Lawsuit against Public Participation) nominally because they said the Olympia Food Co-op violated its own procedures in enacting a boycott of Israeli goods (3 specific products).

They worked on this with the active support and cooperation of Israeli officials from the Consulate and their line has always been that these BDS boycotts are instigated by "outside" organizers who use anti-democratic means to get what they want and leave "scars that don't heal" (divided communities) in their wake. This is really disingenuous because it was they themselves who did the most to polarize and create divisions.

Really, their purpose was the ongoing punishment of Olympia and its co-op, in order to discourage other communities from following their lead. It's not going to work in this case, although the contingent that is hawkish on Israel is still very mobilized...


A_D, do you know what the reference to 'national movement' refers to in the original OP?
I'm unsure why this is important in the case, but it seems to be..
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby American Dream » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:04 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
American Dream wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:.

Absolute bizarroland lawsuit! What was its nominal intent? To make a private group buy goods from a given country? Would there have been a judgement of how many oranges the coop would have been obligated to buy, and whether it was also obligated to buy goods from every other grountry? Obviously not. So it was to get the state to make them not announce the fact that they are not buying goods from Israel. In other words, as direct a violation of 1st Amendment as can be imagined.

The plaintiffs should be hit for ten times the court costs, payable to the co-op's political PR wing. Or if that doesn't hurt, for a chunk of their net worth, as a deterrent to such behavior.

.

StandWithUs- an odious and reactionary group in hardline support of the policies of the Israeli State- did this SLAPP suit (Strategic Lawsuit against Public Participation) nominally because they said the Olympia Food Co-op violated its own procedures in enacting a boycott of Israeli goods (3 specific products).

They worked on this with the active support and cooperation of Israeli officials from the Consulate and their line has always been that these BDS boycotts are instigated by "outside" organizers who use anti-democratic means to get what they want and leave "scars that don't heal" (divided communities) in their wake. This is really disingenuous because it was they themselves who did the most to polarize and create divisions.

Really, their purpose was the ongoing punishment of Olympia and its co-op, in order to discourage other communities from following their lead. It's not going to work in this case, although the contingent that is hawkish on Israel is still very mobilized...


A_D, do you know what the reference to 'national movement' refers to in the original OP?
I'm unsure why this is important in the case, but it seems to be..

Yes- I believe it is because the Olympia Food Co-op's boycott policy had always been that it would/could support nationally-recognized boycotts.

So, hinging on this , StandWithUs' lawsuit made this a key area of contestation.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby barracuda » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:31 pm

slimmouse wrote:Thanks for the ban Barracuda.


You're most welcome.

I used it to reflect on how some people can post reams of crap about nothing, whilst throwing in the vigorous by proxy defence of the empire, essentially acting as apologists for the mass murder in the Middle East, without fear of being duly called out and (IMHO) deservedly insulted for what they do. I say this since this is what transpires on many of these threads, with Nazis in every corner apparently.


What you describe seems to me a relatively ineffectual set of reflections. American Dream may have belabored his position to virtual death (as is his style at times), but it is not, in essence, a position without some merit, imo. That's not to say your one-day suspension was in any way related to your own dismissal of his stance. It wasn't, although you might have reflected upon the thought that about the third time you have to say "fuck you" to a fellow forum member it's become obvious that you've run up against a wall composed of your own lack of rhetorical ideas or productive solutions. It's really nobody's fault. It just happens sometimes, and when it does it's probably best to avoid going personal with your frustrations.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby compared2what? » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:17 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
AlicetheKurious wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:The Media consensus on Israel is collapsing
My Catbird Seat January 8, 2012 7

Across the political spectrum, once-taboo criticism is now common


I wish that this had happened back when it could have made a real difference. The cynical part of me wonders why it's only happening now, when Israel has exploited its dominance of the US to ethnically cleanse most of the West Bank, including Jerusalem, and populate it with hundreds of thousands of wacko, heavily-armed fanatics who couldn't care less what the goys think. And when the US has nearly outlived its usefulness to Israel anyway. The Iran thing is just the zionists trying to squeeze out the very last drop, but they're probably not getting that -- even if the spirit were willing, the flesh is weak, overstretched and worn out by the excesses of the past decade.

Still, I haven't given up hope, far from it. It's just that I long ago gave up hope that liberation for the Palestinians or the rest of us would come from the West. The revolutionary winds sweeping through the Arab world and beyond have the true potential, in my opinion, to be the ultimate game-changers. Israel's strength was never really its domination of the US government, but our weakness, an artificial weakness imposed upon us by our own corrupt, treasonous and stupid tyrants, whom we are now struggling mightily to throw into the dustbin of history. Then, and only then, will the illusion collapse, and things be shown in their true size.


But that's why it makes a difference now. That difference being:

If the residents of Gaza and the West Bank were liberated from Israel now, they might not have to spend the next two decades being denied political and military autonomy by Egypt and Jordan, as they did between 1948 and 1967.

And, yes, I do know that there's more to it than that. However, it did happen. And as a people, the complete powerlessness of the Palestinians against Israel in 1967 wasn't exactly unrelated to their already having been completely powerless as a people.

So there you have it. Reason for hope.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:34 pm

American Dream wrote:The people involved with this important victory will want nothing to do with you in their movements and campaigns if you hold forth about "zionazis", "ZOG", House of Rothschild, or anything like that.

With very good reason...


Ew.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:10 pm

slimmouse wrote:ETC. ETC. OVERHEATED RHETORIC, BLAME AD FOR DEAD CHILDREN ETC. ETC.

Keep up the good work Barracuda.


Says the one who I now see started all of the shit on this thread back on p. 1 by injecting Rothschilds (with talk of "Red Shield stooges") and who puts "lizards" into every other thread. Right after introducing Rothschilds, and AD replied to point out how stupid this is, Mr. Mouse added this bit of hilarity:

slimmouse wrote: I knew there'd be something, and I knew you'd be saying it. Anybody else ?


No, Mr. Mouse said it! But it's okay, it was a preemptive attack, right?

.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Anyway, I should have stopped back on page 1 with this:

JackRiddler wrote:SNIP

I'm happy to say, "the pro-Israeli lobby in the United States." That's what AIPAC and ADL are. Demystify them, describe what they do soberly, and you sap them of their power.

.

(Alternately as we've seen you can always just take the Protocols II approach.)
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