Russian military buildup in Syria...

[stefano]

On the luggage - it's common cause that the plane broke up in the air, right? Those are bags that fell from high up, whether or not they correspond to our idea of what bags that fell from high up must look like. Here's another photo showing that most bags are in bad shape.



And these are from the Malaysia Air plane disaster in Ukraine, which also broke up at cruising altitude after a catastrophic explosion:



And why do you think it wasn't a bomb, Alice? Why would they do it any other way? They had or have an agent at Sharm El-Sheikh airport or at a hotel who put a bomb on the plane, and so they knew where to stand and film that video (although when I saw that I didn't think it looked very convincing). It sounds like the Russians are accepting that now - cancelling all flights to Egypt, not only ones to Sharm El-Sheikh like the British and the Irish. Why would they do that if they thought it was something else?

[AlicetheKurious]

On the luggage - it's common cause that the plane broke up in the air, right? Those are bags that fell from high up, whether or not they correspond to our idea of what bags that fell from high up must look like. Here's another photo showing that most bags are in bad shape.

No, it's not "common cause" that the plane broke up in the air. The ONLY facts we know are that the plane was flying at over 30,000 feet, when there was a so far unidentified noise, and then all its signals shut down and it began to plummet to the ground. No distress signal was sent from the plane. Nothing.

And these are from the Malaysia Air plane disaster in Ukraine, which also broke up at cruising altitude after a catastrophic explosion:

The Malaysian airplane was shot down by a missile from a Ukrainian air force base. Russian investigators have identified the missile as an obsolete model that is only used by the Ukrainian Air Force. The European investigators acknowledge that the plane was shot down by a ground-to-air missile, but claim that they were unable to identify the model.

And why do you think it wasn't a bomb, Alice? Why would they do it any other way? They had or have an agent at Sharm El-Sheikh airport or at a hotel who put a bomb on the plane, and so they knew where to stand and film that video (although when I saw that I didn't think it looked very convincing).

First, that video is of a fighter plane shot down in Afghanistan. The Russian airplane was an Airbus. Even a layman can tell the difference, which is rather obvious.

The Russian airbus was fully fueled, which means that it was carrying 45 tons of jet fuel. A bomb would have caused one hell of a fire, that would have burned the plane and everybody on it to a crisp. According to the initial reports by the Egyptian authorities, none of the passengers' bodies have revealed any trace of explosive substances, and the physical evidence so far does not indicate that the plane was hit by a missile. Neither were any of the bodies burned, nor was the luggage, nor was any sign of fire found on the body of the plane.

It sounds like the Russians are accepting that now - cancelling all flights to Egypt, not only ones to Sharm El-Sheikh like the British and the Irish. Why would they do that if they thought it was something else?

Because though the evidence so far indicates it was not a bomb or a missile, there are other possibilities. The timing of the crash, which coincided with President Sisi's trip to London; the fact that downing the plane hits two birds with one stone ("punishing" the Russians for their humiliating exposure of the "ISIS" psyop in Syria, and "punishing" the Egyptians for slipping the imperialist leash); and the incredible coincidence that, very close to where the airplane suddenly shut down and began to drop, Israel was hosting the largest air force drills in its history, with the US, which had begun the day before the crash.

Finally, the fact that Egypt has totally reestablished Egyptian control over the Sinai is driving the Israelis nuts. It is crucial for their plans that Sinai be viewed as a dangerous no-man's-land, a savage wilderness no longer subject to Egypt's sovereignty, infested with Islamist terrorists. This is patently not the case, and it is particularly galling that Sharm El-Sheikh continues to be a major tourist destination, and that it continues to be the site of important international events such as the Economic Development Conference, which was attended by dozens of heads of state top officials, including from the EU and North America, Asia, Africa and Latin America; and the Arab League Summit, which was attended by dozens of monarchs and presidents and prime ministers from across the region.

Thus, like with any crime, if the evidence reveals that a crime has indeed been committed, we must first ask the question: "cui bono?" Then, once all the physical evidence has been carefully examined and analyzed, the second question is "Who had the means, motive and opportunity to commit this crime?"

The Russian Prime Minister Medvedev has, carefully picking his words, said that it appears the plane was brought down by "a terrorist act". In other words, he has reason to believe somebody murdered those 224 innocent people in cold blood. Since so far there is no evidence that a bomb or missile was used, you are free to come to your own conclusions.

[backtoiam]

My favorite is those bad ass real time barbed wire fences, designed to do nothing, in the middle of no place, that would not even hold a cow in. I'm a country boy. I know a real fence when I see one. Those fences are bullshit. They wouldn't even keep a goat in.

My laughter increases with age.

[stefano]

The Russian airbus was fully fueled, which means that it was carrying 45 tons of jet fuel. A bomb would have caused one hell of a fire, that would have burned the plane and everybody on it to a crisp. According to the initial reports by the Egyptian authorities, none of the passengers' bodies have revealed any trace of explosive substances, and the physical evidence so far does not indicate that the plane was hit by a missile. Neither were any of the bodies burned, nor was the luggage, nor was any sign of fire found on the body of the plane.

The wings are badly burnt - that's where the fuel tanks are.

[stefano]

Although your suspicions about electronic fiddling reminded me of the death of Samora Machel in 1986, widely understood to be the work of South African military intelligence using a false beacon to trick the pilots into thinking they were on their approach to Maputo airport when they were heading for a mountain. That was at night, though.

[coffin_dodger]

downing the plane hits two birds with one stone

Or three? - destruction of Egypt's tourist trade would be a financial rung on the ladder to destabilising, perhaps?

Or leading on from three; four? - fewer tourists, less messy evacuation of Nationals abroad if some concocted situation deteriorates to the point of armed intervention?

But I get ahead of myself. Such silliness. Paranoia, perhaps.

[AlicetheKurious]

The wings are badly burnt - that's where the fuel tanks are.

I am not a physicist, but if a plane goes into sudden free-fall at over 30,000 feet, wouldn't the friction alone burn the wings? I don't know. But 45 tons of jet fuel hit by a bomb would burn more than the wings.

[seemslikeadream]

I think stefano is saying it's rubbish...oh and thanks for helping getting my thread locked stef.....with a little help from Rory.....two threads in a week you guys are on a roll..I guess

[AlicetheKurious]

I just came across this very interesting comment submitted under an article in Yahoo! News about the Russian plane crash in Sharm El-Sheikh. I swear to God I didn't write it and have no idea who the commenter, who goes by the name of "Bryant" is. But he's literate (which is unusual for commenters at Yahoo! News), he's well-informed (ditto), and...it's amazing how closely his observations dovetail with mine.

Did you know that a plane, through its computer system, can be hijacked remotely by cyberhackers and made to crash?

An official in the Egyptian Air traffic control has told local reporters that the last communication with the pilot of the Russian plane was while he was flying at 30 thousand feet. The pilot complained of malfunction in the wireless devices and he asked for an emergency landing at the nearest airport.

Although it is too early to say what caused the crash, there are some clear indications that suggest the plane was remotely sabotaged – via its connection to the Internet.

FACT : The Russian aircraft went down south of Al Arish, near the border of Israel, very close to Israel’s main signal intelligence facility, Unit 8200, located on Kibbutz Urim.

This Israeli signal intelligence facility, staffed by Israel’s most accomplished computer hackers, is located 60 miles north-east of the location where the Russian plane was downed. These hackers could easily have gained access to the plane’s computer, taking over the plane without the knowledge of the plane’s passengers or of the pilots in the cockpit. Computer hacking is indeed the main function of the Israeli operatives stationed at Unit 8200 on Kibbutz Urim.

We already know for a fact that the Israeli signal intelligence facility, known as Unit 8200, has “rows of satellite dishes that covertly intercept phone calls, emails and other communications.” This Israeli spy facility would have had the ability to monitor and communicate directly with the aircraft’s navigation system – without the knowledge of the crew.

The fact that the pilot’s last communication, from 30,000 feet, reported a malfunction in the airplane’s wireless devices and that he asked for an emergency landing, indicates that the airplane may have been in the process of being hacked externally through its satellite wireless connection. The fact that this was the pilot’s last communication is significant. Even if the plane had stalled, as it seems to have done, and fallen from 30,000 feet, the pilot still would have had several minutes to communicate with air traffic controllers in Cairo – unless his communications link had been cut, which appears to have been the case.

Egypt’s Civil Aviation Authority reported that no Mayday signal was sent from the plane and that communication with the aircraft was normal until the aircraft disappeared from radar. This suggests that the normal communication links with the plane had been cut before the plane was remotely hijacked and sabotaged.

Last contact with the flight from flight tracking website Flightradar24 shows the aircraft climbing to 30875 feet, after which it showed erratic altitudes and speed indications. Last altitude recorded was 27925 feet at a speed of just 62 knots. Apparently, the plane had lost all engine power.

These reports seem to indicate that the plane may have been remotely hijacked by an unauthorized “ground pilot” who hacked into its flight system through its satellite connection to the Internet.

A REPEAT OF THE DOWNING OF EGYPT AIR 990?

The plane then reportedly broke up in flight. This break-up may have occurred as a result of the extreme forces the plane was subjected to as it went through radical dives and climbs in the last twenty seconds before it disappeared from radar. This scenario is very similar to the crash of Egypt Air 990, which went down exactly 16 years earlier on October 31, 1999, over the Atlantic Ocean, 62 miles south of Nantucket Island with 217 killed.

The wreckage suggests that the plane disintegrated at a high altitude.

“All signs indicate that the destruction of the aircraft structure occurred in air at a high altitude,” Alexander Neradko, head of the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency, said on November 1. Neradko said debris from the Airbus A321 was scattered across an “elongated ellipsis” of 3 miles in length by 2.5 miles in width.

If we ask the question, Cui bono? or who profits from the destruction of the Russian plane, it is clear that Israel profits most. Israel has a strong motive for attacking Russia covertly. ISIS has never done Israel any harm. On the contrary, it has spent all its efforts ethnically cleansing the region of Arabs in order to expand the borders of the Jewish state and give the Jews their hearts’ desire: Eretz Israel, or Greater Israel, a “promised land” stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates. Israel is incensed with Putin for interfering in Syria on behalf of President Assad. The Israelis want Assad gone. They want to extend the Golan heights. They want more land in Syria. They want a pliant Zionist puppet to replace Assad. Above all, they want Syria to go the same way as Iraq and Libya—to reduce it to rubble with the help of ISIS and their “moderate” rebels against Assad’s rule—and they want to do this as a preliminary to the destruction of Iran.

Only then will the Israelis feel secure: when every country in the Middle East is forced to bend the knee in bondage to their hegemony. What better way to punish Putin for his “meddling” in Syria than to bring down a Russian passenger plane and pin the blame on ISIS? The fact that the most sophisticated hackers in the world were located in Israel, a mere 60 miles north-east of the site of the plane crash, speaks volumes.

I had never heard of Unit 8200, so I googled it, and found this, on an Israeli site:

8200 -- the world's largest intelligence and code breaking unit
By Ami Dor-On

צהל אוסף מידע מודיעיני ביחידה 8200“8200” is a SIGINT and decryption unit operating within the IDF’s Intelligence Division. The unit is formally referred to as 8200 or “the central intelligence gathering unit”. Thousands of military personnel and civilians serve in 8200, which is cosidered to be the largest unit in the IDF. The unit’s commanders hold the rank of Brigadier General and their identity is kept secret. According to various foreign media sources, including one published on September 5th 2010 in the French La Monde Diplomatique*, the unit operates out of several intelligence gathering bases, the most famous of which is located on top of Mount Hermon. The unit’s central base – headquarters and tech center – is located in Glilot, north of Tel Aviv. Another base is located next to kibbutz Urim in the Negev, considered to be one of the largest intelligence bases in the world.

According to the La Monde publication around 30 sattelite dishes of various types are located in the Urim base, used to intercept phone calls and e-mails of “governments, international organizations, foreign companies, political groups and private individuals.” According to that same article, one of the Urim base’s main goals is to listen in on phone calls and e-mail conversation in different languages, including Arabic, Farsi and others. In addition, the base acts as a “center for a spy network that has access to data transmitted through underwater cables, including those connecting Israel with Europe across the Mediterranean.” According to the La Monde article the Urim base intercepts communications across entire geographical regions – such as the Middle East, Asia and Africa – and as such its capabilities are equivalent to those of the world’s most important intelligence gathering units, such as the American NSA and the British GCHQ.

According to foreign media reports the unit intercepts and analyzes data collected from radio, phone, fax and e-mail communications; analyzes various electronic signals such as radar emissions; and also decrypts encrypted data. 8200 locates the source of the signals and their recipients, and monitors the volume of the signals as well – valuable information even if the data itself cannot be decrypted. 8200 intercepts electromagnetic signals emitted by electronic systems that do not include any data by themselves, such as the radars of weapon systems, aircraft and ships.

Among the unit’s most famous acheivements: The interception of the phone call between Egyptian president Jamal Abdul Naser and Jordan’s King Hussein on the first day of the Six Day War; and the interception of the phone call between PLO chief Yasser Arafat and militants from a small Palestinian pro-Iraqi group headed by Abu Abbas, who hijacked the Italian passenger ship Akila Laoro while it was cruising in the Mediterranean. Link

*The article in Le Monde Diplomatique can be found here

[seemslikeadream]

Russian warplane shot down; Turkey says aircraft violated airspace near border

Russia’s Putin in Iran for talks focusing on Syria

[smiths]

that is fucking crazy, what the hell do the Turks think they are doing?

one of the arms of the NATO octopus just overreached i'd say

[smiths]

i really doubt that 8200 needs satellite dishes, they are hooked into the cables for sure


memory hole (link cut - like the cables)

Ships did not cause Internet cable damage
(AFP)

3 February 2008

CAIRO - Damage to undersea Internet cables in the Mediterranean that hit business across the Middle East and South Asia was not caused by ships, Egypt’s communications ministry said on Sunday, ruling out earlier reports.

The transport ministry added that footage recorded by onshore video cameras of the location of the cables showed no maritime traffic in the area when the cables were damaged.

‘The ministry’s maritime transport committee reviewed footage covering the period of 12 hours before and 12 hours after the cables were cut and no ships sailed the area,’ a statement said.

‘The area is also marked on maps as a no-go zone and it is therefore ruled out that the damage to the cables was caused by ships,’ the statement added.

Two cables were damaged earlier this week in the Mediterranean sea and another off the coast of Dubai, causing widespread disruption to Internet and international telephone services in Egypt, Gulf Arab states and South Asia.

A fourth cable linking Qatar to the United Arab Emirates was damaged on Sunday causing yet more disruptions, telecommunication provider Qtel said.

Earlier reports said that the damage had been caused by ships that had been diverted off their usual route because of bad weather.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArti ... eworld&col

[Harvey]

It suits the military industries that the whole region becomes embroiled in a proxy war. Wiser heads need to prevail, keep their nerve and step back.

[seemslikeadream]

[NeonLX]

It suits the military industries that the whole region becomes embroiled in a proxy war. Wiser heads need to prevail, keep their nerve and step back.

True. But we seem to be running out of wiser heads.