US Presidential Election 2024

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby DrEvil » Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:58 pm

Elvis » Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:19 pm wrote:BS wrote:
- Questioning current Net Zero, ESG, and/or 'carbon offset' initiatives (and along similar lines 'green energy' and any related policies) is 'right wing' or 'Far Right'.


Carbon offset initiatives are a rightwing, big-business scam designed to let polluters keep polluting. Many on the 'left' subscribe to the idea because they're conditioned to think in rightwing economics terms—while believing they're promoting left-leaning policies.

A carbon tax that produces revenue is not doing its job.


I would argue if you're thinking in rightwing economic terms you're not really a leftist at all. Liberal or socially progressive, sure, but not leftist.

Neoliberal economic thought has done a number on people to the point where many truly believe that the current economic system is akin to a law of nature (I've actually seen people argue exactly that), and not just a system designed by a few people to extract as much wealth as possible and concentrate it in the hands of a few neo-feudalist assholes. It's not just that they've constructed a box for people to think inside, they've convinced them that it's the only box possible.

I disagree on the carbon tax though. Things should carry their true cost, and carbon intensive things should reflect that cost, and right now it doesn't. The extraction and burning of carbon is subsidized to the tune of trillions. We should take those trillions and make the rich pay for it and redistribute it into the pockets of low-income people. Build affordable housing, subsidize solar panels, EVs, insulation of old buildings, income graded Alaska-style rebates, etc.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Elvis » Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:57 pm

Belligerent Savant wrote:I am simply a person assessing things as objectively as possible


Right—it's merely coincidental that your climate change arguments happen to comport perfectly with fossil-fuel industry PR claims—typically of writers & researchers who are paid, directly and indirectly, by FF interests.

The especially galling part is that the money they spend to deceive us, they got from us.

They purposefully deceived us to such a great extent, I think they probably have criminal liabilities to account for.


If you haven't watched this must-see exposé, Frontline can still knock it out of the park:

The Power of Big Oil

https://youtu.be/QAAbcNl4Lb8
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Elvis » Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:05 pm

DrEvil wrote:Neoliberal economic thought has done a number on people to the point where many truly believe that the current economic system is akin to a law of nature
[...]
It's not just that they've constructed a box for people to think inside, they've convinced them that it's the only box possible.


Yes, yes! This exactly!


DrEvil wrote:I disagree on the carbon tax though. Things should carry their true cost, and carbon intensive things should reflect that cost, and right now it doesn't. The extraction and burning of carbon is subsidized to the tune of trillions. We should take those trillions and make the rich pay for it


I won't go into all the problems with relying on a carbon tax, but for starters, the cost will be passed on to consumers, hitting the poorest the hardest. Setting the tax high enough to be a serious deterrent would jack up energy costs, which of course can drive inflation. Ultimately it just becomes an added cost of doing fossil fuel business with uncertain actual reductions in emissions.

Cutting FF subsidies is an excellent start, they're certainly counterproductive.

Since it's been determined that carbon emissions are adversely affecting climate, just ban the shit. I mean in an organized way: step up investment in renewables, provide direct incentives for private investment in renewables, build the infrastructure—with a commensurate reduction in carbon emissions.

The good news is, we'll pay ourselves to accomplish the transition, including a 21st century infrastructure.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby DrEvil » Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:20 am

All aboard with banning it. We have everything we need to rid ourselves of it, it's just a matter of doing it.

As for the carbon tax, what I'm picturing is a flat tax on carbon products, and every cent paid in taxes that way is redistributed directly to low-income households, ideally so that anyone who can't afford the tax on their own end up making money on it. Everyone pays the tax, and everyone below a certain threshold gets a cut, the further below the larger the cut, and since rich people have vastly larger footprints you end up effectively transferring money from the rich to the poor. Aaaand yeah, that's never happening now that I think about it.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby drstrangelove » Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:32 am

Population reduction is the only feasible option, and If the data doomsayers are to be believed, drastically reducing the lifespan of the current population is entirely justified to save the human species.

Image

As enterprise AI rolls out over the next decade, making most of the white collar workforce redundant, what is to be done with the surplus population?

Prometheans like the Rockefellers are fore-ward thinkers and I suspect the solution to this conundrum has already been rolled out.

It's strange how people can't seem to fathom such a vast conspiracy of social engineering could ever be at play, even though they accept monotheistic religions exist.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:33 am

.
Yes. Join the Death Cult and help them reduce carbon (primarily in the form of humans). Are you willing to make the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of your Cult? Those with repeat mRNA inoculations, along with dutiful adherence of 'recommended' diet advice involving regular ingestion of lab-grown meat, preservatives & pesticides [etc.], are already -- wittingly or not -- contributing towards the reduction objectives.

Manufactured conflicts/wars are then added in to expedite proceedings.

YOU [the lemmings subscribing to the dominant narratives] are the carbon they are aiming to reduce.

Image


Image

(they are succeeding)


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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby DrEvil » Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:56 pm

It's no big mystery why birth-rates are declining. Older populations and better access to healthcare and family planning options.
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The Problem with Package Ideology

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:51 pm

1. Most (present company excluded) of the people now appalled about the good news that some level of development has spread globally and women have more rights and education in most places and thus family planning has resulted in lower birth rates, and who, being upset by it, therefore call it things like a "Population Bomb" (actual Musk phrase) -- because if global population stabilizes and starts going down THE CURVE WILL CONTINUE WITHOUT VARIATION UNTIL IT HITS ZERO! ALL BECAUSE THE WEF AND THEM-THEY WANT TO KILL ALL HUMANS! -- most, I say (present company excluded) are also just the type who, in the 1970s, would have been going equally crazy about a "Population Bomb" because too many people (generally of the wrong racial categories) were breeding too quickly, and would overwhelm all resources and outnumber the better sorts of people. The same racial component from back then usually (present company excluded) lurks or is expressed openly today, since now it's the Europeans and East Asians who just aren't putting out 13 children per breeder no more, like God and Darwin supposedly wanted, while the designated wrong-sorts maintain higher relative birth rates (if lower than back then in absolute terms).

2. There is no logic on Earth or elsewhere in the idea that because the Covidian response was (and is) a big lie and a disaster (generally, depending on place), and because there are other big lies from state-corporate media (such as about the unfolding wars), or because capitalists are advancing opportunist/shock-doctrine proposals for dealing with "climate change" that are predictably unrelated to the problem and destructive of everything except their bottom-line earnings -- no logic I say in the idea -- that therefore the ongoing and accelerating ecological catastrophe of global habitat destruction and mass extinction (within which the currently most urgent driving factor to address is indeed the increasing atmospheric carbon load due to the burning of hydrocarbons for fuels, giving rise to climate chaos) is now somehow also revealed as just something They-Them made up to manipulate us into accepting their evil plans. This is the sad terminal point of adopting ideological packages as wholes (or rejecting ideological packages as wholes by assuming that the truth in all cases has to be a direct opposite of every single thing claimed by the PTB), which sadly the very smart BS has achieved in this post:

Yes. Join the Death Cult and help them reduce carbon (primarily in the form of humans). Are you willing to make the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of your Cult? Those with repeat mRNA inoculations, along with dutiful adherence of 'recommended' diet advice involving regular ingestion of lab-grown meat, preservatives & pesticides [etc.], are already -- wittingly or not -- contributing towards the reduction objectives.

Manufactured conflicts/wars are then added in to expedite proceedings.

YOU [the lemmings subscribing to the dominant narratives] are the carbon they are aiming to reduce.


Regarding the last sentence, yeah that's pretty much what They-Them are about, but it's no answer to the fact that we are on the way to being reduced in any case, and with greater certainty, by the momentum of the ecological catastrophes and global extinction brought about by the forms of the industrial-consumer economies ("capitalism" for short) pursued over the last couple of centuries and accelerated massively in the last 50 years. Also, this ain't ever going to be addressed without some kind of globally coordinated planning, even if the "plans" actually in the making from real-world PTB are mostly shock-doctrine opportunism that accelerate the destruction.

But regarding the start of this quote: wtf? You're posting on a board mostly full of Covidian skeptics and people who didn't get no mRNA shots.

Regarding the attempted linkage, see #2.

The PTB of course includes the multi-multi-trillion-dollar industry of hydrocarbon extraction and burning for energy, who are closely tied to the military-war complex and have put a lot of money into promoting denialism of the ongoing global ecological catastrophe and mass extinction event, and also have invested in directing the "alternative" industries in a fashion that suits their interests, and also have put some money into fake opposition ideas like carbon tax, blaming the consumers, sponsored environmenal NGOs, etc.

.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Oct 19, 2023 2:14 am

Congratulations on the post, JR.

Are you writing somewhere else where I can read your non-tribal thoughts regularly? Personally, I miss your input, even when I don't entirely agree with it.
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Re: The Problem with Package Ideology

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:06 am

I will aim to share more thoughts at a later time when I am better positioned to ruminate and type thoughtfully, but I do appreciate that my last comment inspired worthwhile/insightful commentary by you, JR (irrespective of the percentage I may or may not agree with — thought-provoking discourse is the primary objective, for me at least. Not ‘agreement’).

Briefly, with respect to this bit:

JackRiddler » Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:51 am wrote:


Regarding the last sentence, yeah that's pretty much what They-Them are about, but it's no answer to the fact that we are on the way to being reduced in any case, and with greater certainty, by the momentum of the ecological catastrophes and global extinction brought about by the forms of the industrial-consumer economies ("capitalism" for short) pursued over the last couple of centuries and accelerated massively in the last 50 years. Also, this ain't ever going to be addressed without some kind of globally coordinated planning, even if the "plans" actually in the making from real-world PTB are mostly shock-doctrine opportunism that accelerate the destruction.

But regarding the start of this quote: wtf? You're posting on a board mostly full of Covidian skeptics and people who didn't get no mRNA shots.

Regarding the attempted linkage, see #2.

The PTB of course includes the multi-multi-trillion-dollar industry of hydrocarbon extraction and burning for energy, who are closely tied to the military-war complex and have put a lot of money into promoting denialism of the ongoing global ecological catastrophe and mass extinction event, and also have invested in directing the "alternative" industries in a fashion that suits their interests, and also have put some money into fake opposition ideas like carbon tax, blaming the consumers, sponsored environmenal NGOs, etc.

.


Largely in agreement with the above*, and in a variety of forms have expressed similar sentiment here, albeit more crudely, generally.

[EDITED to add a couple more items in the below 'list']

*however: while I agree hydrocarbons/related forms of energy, as implemented by mega corps & govts, lead to egregious pollution and harms to ecology (and of course humans/living things), the primary cause of accelerated demise of lives/well-being are the other actions by a small subset of humans: manufactured wars, increasingly authoritarian/totalitarian govts, unchecked (negative) influence of billionaires and their respective think tanks/‘philanthropy’; increased manipulation and control of currency valuations/monetary systems (leading to lower quality of life/lifespans); pesticides, additives/preservatives in foods, soil, agriculture; excessive plastics & waste in food systems, products and environment; unchecked/egregious promotion and wide-scale ingestion of often-harmful pharma drugs, ‘vaccines’, etc; and the deep psychological and physiological harms of constant propaganda campaigns (and their impact on culture/mindsets/divisive rhetoric) for matters both small and large. Amplified by increasingly pervasive social/readily-accessible media** and related algorithms/sentiment modifiers. Etc.

**this includes "alternative" news sources!

Also - a bit of revisionist history (Re: your comment on this board’s sentiment towards the handling of Covid) towards the end of your reply; this board, for a time, did not consist of ‘mostly’ Covidian skeptics; there was a time when it was to the contrary (until relatively recently, arguably). One can scroll back to prior pages of certain threads here for a refresher.. ;-)
(I also believe at least half or more of forum members here have 1 or more mRNA inoculations — and that’s just fine if they do! Though perhaps not for their long-term health, sadly/angrily — but of course there was never any sort of forum poll on the topic. I set up a poll early on here to inquire about side effects for those that did get injected but unsurprisingly did not garner too much feedback). All largely moot at this point, in any event.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Elvis » Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:23 pm

We don't need rich people's money—or any taxes—to pay for anything at the federal level; taxes should not be employed this way.

Federal taxes can be made to serve four principal purposes of a social and economic character. These purposes are:

1. As an instrument of fiscal policy to help stabilize the purchasing power of the dollar;

2. To express public policy in the distribution of wealth and of income, as in the case of the progressive income and estate taxes;

3. To express public policy in subsidizing or in penalizing various industries and economic groups [e.g. carbon polluters.];

4. To isolate and assess directly the costs of certain national benefits, such as highways and social security.

...The public purpose which is served should never be obscured in a tax program under the mask of raising revenue.


None of these functions include collecting money to directly redistribute, or, for that matter, to pay for any program.

Also consider what happens after the energy transition is accomplished and no more carbon taxes are collected: the payments to the poor stop. Then what? Better to ensure that everyone who wants to earn a fair living can do so, as poposed to the current orthodoxy which seeks to keep 5% or so of the workforce idle at all times (ostensibly to avert inflation).


DrEvil wrote:As for the carbon tax, what I'm picturing is a flat tax on carbon products, and every cent paid in taxes that way is redistributed directly to low-income households, ideally so that anyone who can't afford the tax on their own end up making money on it. Everyone pays the tax, and everyone below a certain threshold gets a cut, the further below the larger the cut, and since rich people have vastly larger footprints you end up effectively transferring money from the rich to the poor.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby DrEvil » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:09 pm

You could just transition the carbon tax to a regular tax on the rich, but that's too idealistic even for me.

However it happens there needs to be some serious redistribution happening, and soon. Almost everything that was gained last century through blood and tears has been lost again, and we're back to robber barons (if I'm not mistaken the inequality now is way worse than back then).
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby drstrangelove » Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:49 am

It's amazing how quickly the neocons were able to burn through all that good will they built up in opposition to what many, including myself, still view as nuremberg level crimes against humanity by neolibs. the whole political spectrum is unhinged. the fresh blood republican vivek is talking about heads on pikes at the gaze border, JFK Jr. is running as a moderate even though he launched his campaign on the biggest fringe issue imaginable and keeps pretending people are trying to kill him, trump is doing his thing, and biden is the only person in politics acting responsibly by informing the american public day in and.day out he isn't actually in control of anything and a puppet regime is running the country so he may as well enjoy the few years he has left on a beach somewhere.

i wonder if we'll get true blood sports in my lifetime. The UFC is only getting more popular and the demand for blood is increasing. Dana White already has that slap thing going which is just brain damage without any merit whatsoever. Maybe he can do some partnership with MAID in Canada and have sudden death euthanasia tournaments in a squid game format. I mean the idea is already in people's heads. battle royal is one of the most popular gaming and film genres.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Grizzly » Sun Nov 05, 2023 4:28 pm

https://noagendasocial.com/@BigSkyRider/111358867225485378
https://noagendasocial.com/@BigSkyRider ... 7225485378

Speaking of neocon's...

heh... I'm still amused by all of the people sitting around in their 3rd year of a stolen government, telling themselves they're going to get a chance to vote in 2024. Biden isn't going to run in opposition to big mike anyways.


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Re: US Presidential Election 2024

Postby Grizzly » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:57 pm

https://youtu.be/JRRZkPPptfY


https://youtu.be/JRRZkPPptfY?feature=shared

A beautifully crafted short film by Mikki Willis about my independent announcement and what it means for America.


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