Abolish the White Race - By Any Means Necessary

[American Dream]

It may just be the white race came about through inbreeding due to their isolation over thousands of years during the ice age. Hey, it is possible, you know.

Lots of things are possible but that doesn't make them real. If you are at all serious, have you got any good evidence to support your hypothesis? Staring with a working definition of "the White Race"? Including also what that inbreeding might mean?

[jakell]

How does one do battle with a dead guy, AD?

Anyway, might as well rock the boat...

It may just be the white race came about through inbreeding due to their isolation over thousands of years during the ice age. Hey, it is possible, you know.

Burnt Hill might be more familiar with the White Deer confined within the fences of the Seneca Army Depot. The deer are white, but not albinos. Their coloring is due to their recessive genes and inbreeding.

Er... this is how races are supposed to have formed in the first place (not specifically about ice ages though).

Of course, one has to accept that races can exist in the first place, otherwise all arguments, either for equivalence or otherwise, have no meaning.

[jakell]

It may just be the white race came about through inbreeding due to their isolation over thousands of years during the ice age. Hey, it is possible, you know.

Lots of things are possible but that doesn't make them real. If you are at all serious, have you got any good evidence to support your hypothesis? Staring with a working definition of "the White Race"? Including also what that inbreeding might mean?

Yes, inbreeding is a very difficult concept to understand isn't it AD?

Why not ask for a 'working definition' of that too

[semper occultus]

It may just be the white race came about through inbreeding due to their isolation over thousands of years during the ice age. Hey, it is possible, you know.

....always thought it was something to do with evolutionary advantage synthesising vitamin D in the skin in the sun-starved northern climes .. .


( also check out the melanoma stats in Australia ( although the total lack of an ozone layer down there ain't helping ) )

[jakell]

It may just be the white race came about through inbreeding due to their isolation over thousands of years during the ice age. Hey, it is possible, you know.

....always thought it was something to do with evolutionary advantage synthesising vitamin D in the skin in the sun-starved northern climes .. .


( also check out the melanoma stats in Australia ( although the total lack of an ozone layer down there ain't helping ) )

There are factors of natural selection too, but it is inbreeding that reinforces the genotype. Inbreeding is a human sensibility though, other animals do this as a matter of course.

[semper occultus]

.....reminds me a bit of this....

The caste system is called the varna vyavastha and the word varna in Sanskrit means colour (of the skin). This also points to the racial origin of the caste system. Fair skin colour is usually preferred over darker skin even today, as is evident from many matrimonial advertisements.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-opinion/looking-back-on-the-caste-system/article370215.ece

...quite alot of Hindu Hitler supporters weren't there...

[American Dream]

So the biological basis of "the White Race" is in skin tone?

If so, where is the dividing line?

Any specific genetics beyond that?

[jakell]

So the biological basis of "the White Race" is in skin tone?

If so, where is the dividing line?

Any specific genetics beyond that?

Who said anything about a biological basis? It is you who have come up with this, plus the idea of a 'dividing line'.

I think you are still on the "is race real or a social construct?" see-saw.

[NeonLX]

Maybe the easiest approach would be for "whites" to have offspring with "differently colored" people. That seems to be happening more and more. I know the racists from all backgrounds bemoan this "mixing", but it makes perfect and absolute sense from my perspective (which is admittedly that of "white privilege").

[American Dream]

Yeah- the boneheads hate that!

[Iamwhomiam]

It may just be the white race came about through inbreeding due to their isolation over thousands of years during the ice age. Hey, it is possible, you know.

Lots of things are possible but that doesn't make them real. If you are at all serious, have you got any good evidence to support your hypothesis? Staring with a working definition of "the White Race"? Including also what that inbreeding might mean?

I knew that would rock the boat! To answer your questions AD, I'll do so in the order asked. Lots of things that once seemed impossible are indeed real. I never suggest it was real, but only possible. I have no hypothesis, therefore no evidence. I mean, excepting for the cause of the white deer's appearance being due to inbreeding and a recessive genes. I have no illusion of a definition of "the White Race," how about you tell me yours so I can have one? Inbreeding is well enough understood. Incest is inbreeding, for one example.

While a serious subject to some, I feel those seeking firm definitions for unknowns, especially when it comes to this thing we call "race" are exploring an exercise in futility. And let's face it, not any of us know the reason for why it is that we have what we call "different races." Do you know the origin of the word "race?" I sure as hell don't.

Regardless of one's skin coloring, we are all human and we all have the same needs.

If one wants to elevate one race above another, they seek out their differences as humans, and then apply whichever label they feel most appropriately aligns with their personal belief system. If we try to separate those who are "different" by species of humanity, we wind up with troublesome to some, primary for others, categories of sub-species.

If the out of Africa myth is true, which I doubt it is, than the differences in skin coloring, specifically, Red, White, Black, and Yellow have come about through isolation.

(Sometimes I ponder whether the Earth is nothing but an interplanetary zoo. Other times I imagine we're an alien experiment, to see whether those who appear different can coalesce into one single species of Human who are all of similar color. You know, to end all this race nonsense. Maybe an experiment that's merely a bet between two aliens of the same or of different species and skin coloring.)

Of course, it could all be due to purple aliens fucking with our genes, just because than can. And no I have no evidence or hypothesis.

Ultimately, I feel the term unnecessary and only useful to keep us divided.

Allow me this one question AD, do you have any evidence that would disprove the "white race" (ugh!) has been brought about by inbreeding?

Just as an aside, my son in law, according to Toni Morrison, would be considered blue-black in skin coloring, My grandson, who carries my line of genetic material, would never be considered white, though he half is. Nowadays, all my descendants, excepting my daughter are dark skinned. I myself am lily-white, pale and pasty.

edit to correct typo, 2nd word, new to knew

[Iamwhomiam]

It may just be the white race came about through inbreeding due to their isolation over thousands of years during the ice age. Hey, it is possible, you know.

....always thought it was something to do with evolutionary advantage synthesising vitamin D in the skin in the sun-starved northern climes .. .


( also check out the melanoma stats in Australia ( although the total lack of an ozone layer down there ain't helping ) )

So did I, semper occultus. My dad survived melanoma. I used to spend all my summers in the sun and although I haven't surfed or been to an ocean beach in years, I remain a good candidate for melanoma.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Assuming O.E. is the same Wilson, definitely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiol ... _Synthesis

The application of sociobiology to humans was immediately controversial. Some people, such as Stephen Jay Gould, and Richard Lewontin contended that sociobiology was biologicially determinist. They argued that it would be used, as similar ideas had been in the past, to justify the status quo, entrench ruling elites, and legitimize authoritarian political programmes. They referred to social darwinism and eugenics of the early 20th century, and to other more recent ideas, such as the IQ controversy of the early 1970s as cautionary tales in the use of evolutionary principles as applied to human society. They believed that Wilson was committing the naturalistic fallacy. Several academics opposed to Wilson's sociobiology created the Sociobiology Study Group to counter his ideas.

Some of those arguments in bold seem quite familiar, yeah? A bit like the notion that we should stop studying physics since it will only be used to build more weapons.

Charles Murray was a self-promoting propagandist who simply disregarded any fact that could trouble his conclusions, but in that he was only different from Stephen Jay Gould insofar as Murray was cold and uncharismatic, whereas Gould was great on camera or on stage.

There were a lot of good, accurate critiques of Sociobiology's initial publication, though. The 25th Anniversary Edition is pretty great, I've been reading through it for damn near five years now, on my third copy.

I'm sure genetics have some influence on behaviour however an evolutionary model has to have an actual model as part of its make up and my understanding is that as of yet there isn't one.

A model has to produce testable hypotheses. As of yet there aren't great actual models that i'm aware of.

Sociobiology isn't a bad concept as such but if the whole nature v nurture or genes v environment argument is to take place then environment will win. Industrial pollutants and things like FASD show as great an influence on behaviour as any genetic predisposition will.

Of course that argument itself is flawed. Its obviously a combination of genes and environment that determine behaviour. Environment probably has an effect on gene expression itself. Anyway there is a big difference between a concept and a specific model.

One final point tho - what about learned behaviour? The idea of memes, as Dawkins used it, is important. Behaviours that are evolutionarily successful but transmitted via culture not biology. Hunting techniques, specific medical knowledge etc etc.

Apparently Kakariki parakeets in NZ have learned to use an "introduced" species (the Manuka, a tea tree from Australia) for parasite control. Not only do they eat it they chew it up and use it as a salve or ointment to spread over their skin and feathers.

That behaviour couldn't possibly be directed by genes.

But I guess underlying behaviours concerning observation and experimentation could.

Anyway this conversation will probably move on before I get the chance to take much more part in it. The missus had a daughter late yesterday and i'm heading back to the hospital to either pick them up of at least sus out when they are coming home. Might be busy for a while.

[Searcher08]

Anyway this conversation will probably move on before I get the chance to take much more part in it. The missus had a daughter late yesterday and i'm heading back to the hospital to either pick them up of at least sus out when they are coming home. Might be busy for a while.

That was the most understated thing I have ever read at R.I.
Big congratulations to you and your family, Joe
Alex H - Auf Wiedersehen

[American Dream]

I have no hypothesis, therefore no evidence. I mean, excepting for the cause of the white deer's appearance being due to inbreeding and a recessive genes. I have no illusion of a definition of "the White Race," how about you tell me yours so I can have one? Inbreeding is well enough understood. Incest is inbreeding, for one example.

While a serious subject to some, I feel those seeking firm definitions for unknowns, especially when it comes to this thing we call "race" are exploring an exercise in futility.

My questions were fairly skeptical ones, though open to hearing you make a compelling case for Race as an essential category. The "races" I know are learned to me- by now just "common sense". They may relate to skin tones, but only in part.

Allow me this one question AD, do you have any evidence that would disprove the "white race" (ugh!) has been brought about by inbreeding?

I don't even know what all of that really means, given that there is no agreed upon genetic basis for Race as an essential category.

Just as an aside, my son in law, according to Toni Morrison, would be considered blue-black in skin coloring, My grandson, who carries my line of genetic material, would never be considered white, though he half is. Nowadays, all my descendants, excepting my daughter are dark skinned. I myself am lily-white, pale and pasty.

I think color is partly why people attribute "race" categories to other people, but not at all completely. For example, talking/dressing/being named one way instead of another can make a great deal of difference in what categories we are assigned to.